Ben Johnson and this team

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ethomasp31 said:
Maybe I’m being a bit of a dink about it but I guess I’m still a little bit salty.
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Life's way, way too short. Enjoy the basketball the team we cheer for is playing right now. Seriously. Is anyone that made comments you didn't like honestly worth your time and aggravation? It's just sports.
 

bc2211 said:
There seems to be a lotttt of people happy with some early success so they can come here and tell others that they were wrong.

What’s wrong with sitting back and appreciating the product. We are all fans of the same team, and we are all reckoning with what was (like it or not) a hire that did not inspire a lot of hope. It will take some more time than others to come around. I’m pleasantly surprised, feel great about our year so far, but have not seen nearly enough to anoint BJ the next coach K. If you are, great. If not, that’s cool too. We can both be happy if we win the next game.
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To answer your question I’ll cheer for the Gophers through every win and every loss. I’ll try to limit my gloating when they win if other try to limit their negativity when we lose.
 

ethomasp31 said:
So back in March and April some people on this board were saying why don’t we give Ben Johnson a chance....you know like actually sign a recruiting class and coach a game or two before we ripped him and the quality of players he recruited. It felt like it was almost a contest to see who could be more negative.

Through the summer this board became even more negative as some players we hoped would become Gophers chose different options and some high school players from the area signed with other schools. People were posting on this board saying they were “done with the team”, “giving up their season tickets”, “weren’t going to watch them this year”, “we will be lucky to win a B1G game this year” and I could go on.

At that time this is how I ended one of my posts:

“Now I don't know if Ben Johnson will be nearly as successful as Clem Haskins was....but the point is neither does anyone else on this message board. For four months the same people have been whining and complaining about the coaching hire. They have already declared Johnson a failed coach before we have even watched a game. I think the point that some of us are making is why can't we wait and see how the team plays? Why can't we wait and see how the 2022 and 2023 recruiting classes look?”

But the negativity continued....

I don’t know what you were posting over the summer....but when some posters feel like they can just say they will “eat crow” and then just forget about everything they said from March until the middle of November it kind of rubs me the wrong way. Maybe I’m being a bit of a dink about it but I guess I’m still a little bit salty.
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That last paragraph man… I had a few posts about why I thought this hire was a risk that could set us back further. But so what… the hire did not instill confidence with the fan base at large, hence ticket sales. What do you need from all of us who still have doubt but are changing our minds with each game? Silence? Write letters to Coyle? Write apology letters to you?

Let’s enjoy the product on the court.
 

bc2211 said:
That last paragraph man… I had a few posts about why I thought this hire was a risk that could set us back further. But so what… the hire did not instill confidence with the fan base at large, hence ticket sales. What do you need from all of us who still have doubt but are changing our minds with each game? Silence? Write letters to Coyle? Write apology letters to you?

Let’s enjoy the product on the court.
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Buy tickets, Fill the Barn.
 

bc2211 said:
That last paragraph man… I had a few posts about why I thought this hire was a risk that could set us back further. But so what… the hire did not instill confidence with the fan base at large, hence ticket sales. What do you need from all of us who still have doubt but are changing our minds with each game? Silence? Write letters to Coyle? Write apology letters to you?

Let’s enjoy the product on the court.
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Honestly....I don’t know anything that you’ve posted. To be concerned about this season is fine. I thought we would struggle a lot more than we have. But some people came on here day after day with multiple negative posts. I felt it was disrespectful to the coaching staff and more importantly the players who took the chance and decided to come play here. That negativity doesn’t do anything to help the program.
 


ethomasp31 said:
Honestly....I don’t know anything that you’ve posted. To be concerned about this season is fine. I thought we would struggle a lot more than we have. But some people came on here day after day with multiple negative posts. I felt it was disrespectful to the coaching staff and more importantly the players who took the chance and decided to come play here. That negativity doesn’t do anything to help the program.
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Agreed. It seemed like the handful of us that were even remotely positive about the hire or told people to wait and see/calm down with the doom & gloom were hammered on this forum. Like you said, the negativity went on everyday for months.

And now for some to play victim by saying stuff like below is silly.
bc2211 said:
That last paragraph man… I had a few posts about why I thought this hire was a risk that could set us back further. But so what… the hire did not instill confidence with the fan base at large, hence ticket sales. What do you need from all of us who still have doubt but are changing our minds with each game? Silence? Write letters to Coyle? Write apology letters to you?

Let’s enjoy the product on the court.
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Don’t write apology letters, just do what we suggested from the beginning and next time this happens, at least give the new coach a chance before saying stuff like, “I’ve been a season ticket holder for decades, but am cancelling immediately” or “what a terrible hire, can’t wait to do this all over again in 2 or 3 years.” (Obviously those quotes are not specific to you bc2211, but similar comments were common on GH when Ben was hired)
 

ethomasp31 said:
While I agree you want to build a bench and that should be a goal as the season goes on....these guys 21 years and have played basketball almost every day for the last 8 years of their lives. They play one or two games a week. It’s not like they are playing 82 game seasons with 3 or 4 games a week. Battle and Willis probably don’t even want to go out of the game. I think people are making a bigger deal out of it than it really is....

Now for Curry to play that much with his knees? That is one thing I would be more concerned about.
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But they're not going to be as fresh as their opponents late in games, at least comparatively. You can condition yourself for stamina, but there's a human limitation.
 

Bad Gopher said:
But they're not going to be as fresh as their opponents late in games, at least comparatively. You can condition yourself for stamina, but there's a human limitation.
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I agree they need to build depth.....but right now a tired Battle or Willis is better than anything you can put in to replace them with...but I also understand they would be better with rest. We don't have anyone to sub in for them right now.

The other point I was trying to make is that they only play 2 games a week and not 3 or 4 like in the NBA. It's also only a 30 game schedule. With the TV timeouts roughly every 4 minutes it's not like a 35 yo man trying to play pickup ball.
 
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ethomasp31 said:
I agree they need to build depth.....but right now a tired Battle or Willis is better than anything you can put in to replace them in the long run...

The season isn't going to tire them out is what my point was....
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It helps that they're upperclassmen and not likely to hit some kind of freshman wall or whatever.
 



Bad Gopher said:
It helps that they're upperclassmen and not likely to hit some kind of freshman wall or whatever.
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Yeah....I understand it's a different level, but most of these guys are used to playing nearly the whole game while they were in high school. I agree though....it even takes more energy than we realize to even get a shot off in the B1G compared to where they were playing high school.

We need depth....and the situation we are in is not ideal....but it doesn't seem like we have many options right now.
 

ethomasp31 said:
Yeah....I understand it's a different level, but most of these guys are used to playing nearly the whole game while they were in high school. I agree though....it even takes more energy than we realize to even get a shot off in the B1G compared to where they were playing high school.

We need depth....and the situation we are in is not ideal....but it doesn't seem like we have many options right now.
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The lack of depth is a bit problematic but the biggest adjustment the staff has to make is to make sure they take as many opportunities as they can to rest guys between games so that they are as fresh as possible on gameday. Shorter/lighter practices....things like that to try and take some wear and tear off.

Teams have done it with short benches. Not ideal but if you have the right guys you can do it. So far at least it looks like we might have the right guys. Whether or not they can hold up over the grind that is the Big Ten season remains to be seen.
 

GopherDude said:
Agreed. It seemed like the handful of us that were even remotely positive about the hire or told people to wait and see/calm down with the doom & gloom were hammered on this forum. Like you said, the negativity went on everyday for months.

And now for some to play victim by saying stuff like below is silly.

Don’t write apology letters, just do what we suggested from the beginning and next time this happens, at least give the new coach a chance before saying stuff like, “I’ve been a season ticket holder for decades, but am cancelling immediately” or “what a terrible hire, can’t wait to do this all over again in 2 or 3 years.” (Obviously those quotes are not specific to you bc2211, but similar comments were common on GH when Ben was hired)
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I certainly don’t enough care about the internet to play victim.

What I find off-putting is that a good portion of this fan base (as represented on this board at least) is so starved for winning that they will spike the ball in the end zone in the face of fellow fans after an 8-1 start.

Some fans are optimists, some are pessimists, and some are realists. Building a program and culture will take time. The gopherhole is off to a bad start.
 

bc2211 said:
I certainly don’t enough care about the internet to play victim.

What I find off-putting is that a good portion of this fan base (as represented on this board at least) is so starved for winning that they will spike the ball in the end zone in the face of fellow fans after an 8-1 start.

Some fans are optimists, some are pessimists, and some are realists. Building a program and culture will take time. The gopherhole is off to a bad start.
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So were the people who were spiking the ball in the face of the optimists last spring and summer with their negativity okay?

It should go both ways right?
 



MNVCGUY said:
With all due respect I think it remains to be seen just how bad they are for a Big Ten team. If they stay healthy there is a solid shot this team finishes closer to the middle of the conference than the bottom. Health will be the biggest determining factor though, couple key injuries and they are toast.
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This team has outperformed my expectations. I took a lot of heat in this thread for saying this bad team will probably win 3-5 games rather than the 0-2 I predicted at the beginning.

2-9 with 9 to play
I think they can go 4-5 the last 9 but would predict 2-7 or 3-6.
I will be surprised if they go 5-4 the last 9.

@ohio state is the only game on the schedule I give them close to zero percent chance of winning.
@ Nebraska is their only game against a bad team
 

alchemy2u said:
You threw in the point the conference is down just incase they win more than you claim. "They are still bad but won XX games because the B1G is so down"
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Right now 6 teams give you a quad 1 win at home (last year 6)
Right now 9 teams give you a quad 1 win on the road (last year 10)
Right now the teams not giving you a quad 1 road win are ranked: 90, 91, 99, 101, 198 (last year 76, 81, 96, 129)

Now looking back I’m not sure the conference is as down as I thought back in December.
the bottom of the conference is a little weaker. The top couple are weaker. Teams 4-7 are a little stronger this year. I’d say just a little down.

last year sagarins system had it as pretty clearly the best league. This year second best league but closer to 4th best than 1st
 



This tweet was talking about bubble teams but I happened to see who was at the "top" or bottom of this list.
Lot of ways to look at this. We are essentially taking the worst collection of shots in the country. On the surface that is very bad. However with 0 post presence we get no high % looks. We also don't push pace which leads to layups. Finally a lack of elite playmakers means forcing tough shots. On the positive end we have pretty good shooters by this metric.

Again a lot goes into this, just thought it was interesting. Hopefully with a kid like Payne plus fox and II we get better post touches next few years. Do nit consistently taking the worst shots in the country! Probably doesn't mean much for this year overall
 

ethomasp31 said:
Honestly....I don’t know anything that you’ve posted. To be concerned about this season is fine. I thought we would struggle a lot more than we have. But some people came on here day after day with multiple negative posts. I felt it was disrespectful to the coaching staff and more importantly the players who took the chance and decided to come play here. That negativity doesn’t do anything to help the program.
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I agree with this, but at this point in the season, the only thing that matters is, are they markedly better now than they were in Nov/Dec? If the answer isn't definitively YES, then there are obviously legitimate reasons for at least some concern about the coaching. Regardless of who they constructed the roster with, coaching is coaching and noticeable improvement is a result of that coaching.

I don't know enough to answer that question right now. Are they markedly better than they were in the first 6-8 weeks of the season?
 



Expected we'd be getting 8-10 wins for the season, won a few solid NC games to get above that but definitely expected how the last month has gone
 

I’m trying to still be positive, but some of these games are not even close. I’m hoping for a turnaround and we got a schedule that will give us some chances.
 

GopherChaos said:
I’m trying to still be positive, but some of these games are not even close. I’m hoping for a turnaround and we got a schedule that will give us some chances.
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The only thing to turn around for is the NIT instead of the CBI
 


MNVCGUY said:
Honestly I think it is the use of "really bad team" that is sticking out to those of us that don't agree with your assessment.

To me, a really bad team is one that goes out and gets crushed every night and looks bad in the process. Stupid mistakes, terrible shots, dumb fouls, lack of effort...... Towards the end of last season the Gophers were playing like a really bad team, getting blown out by teams they should at the very least have been able to compete with.

This team is going to struggle because of the lack of depth and size, but they also look like they are going to be a tough out and not just roll over for teams. They will win some games we don't expect them to. Even if they end up finishing in the lower part of the standings, they can still be a solid group who came together for one year and played well.
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This is a really bad team

I still applaud their efforts
 

Some guy said:
Still don’t think we win more than 4-5 big ten games. I’ll be happy to be wrong.
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Some guy said:
“Escape clause?”

I don’t need an escape clause. I don’t think the team is good enough to win much in the big ten.

so far I’m wrong. That’s a good thing. Don’t need an escape clause.
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alchemy2u said:
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alchemy2u said:
So this is your escape clause in case they win a few games.... got it.
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ethomasp31 said:
So you think they will only win 3 or 4 more B1G games....is that what you are saying?

The good thing is once they win more than that you can just say you will eat a little crow....say you have been rooting for them the whole time....and 90% of the board won’t think anything of it.
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Guys. This team is bad. It’s okay to say it. I’ve cheered for them this year and I’ve accepted reality. This is a bottom 4 team in the league. They’ve exceeded my expectations while essentially clinching bottom 4 with 5 to play
 


fan of Ray Williams said:
Want 2 more conference wins and 1 more in the Big Ten tourney.
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Would be great. We are currently at my preseason upside prediction. So lose out is the only way to revert from exceeding my expectations to merely matching my expectations

In terms of conference season. Total wins already clinched exceeding
 



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