Ben Johnson and this team

[leib0039]

Last night, just don't think they were prepared to play. I mean it was 29-9 and no way this team can overcome that. I am not one to buy into the fatigue. They didn't jog to Evanston. They weren't ready at the start of the game. They seem much more involved after they were curb stomped.

I also wonder about "fatigue". They played on Wednesday then Sunday, this isnt like we played a 4 game in 5 day thing. They are college athletes not fat slobs. They are 20ish years old with world class trainers, food experts, etc. Do I think playing 35+ min in a Big 10 game is tough, yah absolutely it is, but I have a tough time thinking 4 days later they are still just exhausted. Sure dings add up over the year but I just watched a UNC team that basically plays the same number of guys we do and didnt make one sub the entire 2nd half take it to a top 5 Duke team. I know its just the end of the world to say this to some people but we got exposed as the year went on, people figured out Johnson/team and we didnt adjust well. That is almost a given for a 1st year coach, but that needs to improve. At the 1/2 way point of the B1G year there was a lot of hope we as started to get the weaklings more, we seemingly got worse, that isnt a great sign.

 

[Full Speed Ahead]

...What all exactly happened with this team is a mystery. Some of it is fatigue, but I don't buy that it's all fatigue. And the bots that keep replying to every post that they met or exceeded expectations can hold their tongue; that's not what this is about.

"Rope-a-Dope" strategy -- we'll come out swinging in the next round (aka the B1G playoffs).

 

[Spaulding!No!]

60% following coaching changes plus a twofer for some really bad coaches (Monson/Pitino). Can't give coaches 6 years to figure things out.

Nailed it.

 

[MNVCGUY]

Last night, just don't think they were prepared to play. I mean it was 29-9 and no way this team can overcome that. I am not one to buy into the fatigue. They didn't jog to Evanston. They weren't ready at the start of the game. They seem much more involved after they were curb stomped.

Story all year on this team has been zero margin for error. Northwestern shot the lights out early and we missed some very makeable shots which led to the big hole we dug ourselves into. As they have all year the team battled back and made it interesting but again didn't have enough to get it done.

 

[MNVCGUY]

Transfers were largely fine. The issue was losing the entire team to the portal and injuries which made the transfers play bigger roles than they were expected to. If Loewe was the 5th best starter, Stephens 6th man, Sutherlin 9th or 10th off the bench and Daniels 2 minutes a game the transfers wouldn't be looked down upon.

I would have loved to have seen what this team could have done:

Starters: Willis, Stephens, Battle, Fox, Curry
Bench: Loewe, Sutherlin, Ihnen, Thompson, Daniels, Thiam

That isn't a contender most likely but given what we saw out of group we had and the potential for what Fox would have brought to the table, that could easily have been at least a middle of the pack team in the Big Ten this year.

Some will see it as making excuses but those 2 season ending injuries crippled this roster. This team showed a lot of fight but just didn't have the size/muscle/depth to matchup with teams in the Big Ten.

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

Is 7 B1G wins turning things around quickly, that is my guess on next years ceiling. Bens's just not going to get top guys off the portal and there are some big gaps that needs to be filled unless locals like Walton or Garcia decide they want to transfer back. In for the long hall and actually building a long term stable program is what I see occurring.

I’d prefer that ala Fleck, rather than win an NIT Championship in a first season and that ends up being the highlight -

 

[Bad Gopher]

I also wonder about "fatigue". They played on Wednesday then Sunday, this isnt like we played a 4 game in 5 day thing. They are college athletes not fat slobs. They are 20ish years old with world class trainers, food experts, etc. Do I think playing 35+ min in a Big 10 game is tough, yah absolutely it is, but I have a tough time thinking 4 days later they are still just exhausted. Sure dings add up over the year but I just watched a UNC team that basically plays the same number of guys we do and didnt make one sub the entire 2nd half take it to a top 5 Duke team. I know its just the end of the world to say this to some people but we got exposed as the year went on, people figured out Johnson/team and we didnt adjust well. That is almost a given for a 1st year coach, but that needs to improve. At the 1/2 way point of the B1G year there was a lot of hope we as started to get the weaklings more, we seemingly got worse, that isnt a great sign.

To a point I can buy this, but other teams didn't develop a magical power to keep the Gophers from playing good D and hustling to loose balls.

 

[howeda7]

The decline in defense/hustle and the refusal to even attempt to develop Thompson/Thiam were disappointing down the stretch after a promising start.

 

[eker0016]

The funny thing is we went 3-15 over our last 18. One of those wins was a blowout of Northwestern without Willis, the other win was against Rutgers without Battle, Curry, and Stephens.

Although this finish was expected by many at the beginning of the season, it feels like they should have won more with how the season started, and with the wins I just mentioned without top players.

Yeah I was thinking about that too. In those games we relied even more on our top guys. Seems like we would have a blowup game from a player like Stephens/Loewe and then they would get an appreciation post on here and go cold for the next 2 weeks.

Last night, just don't think they were prepared to play. I mean it was 29-9 and no way this team can overcome that. I am not one to buy into the fatigue. They didn't jog to Evanston. They weren't ready at the start of the game. They seem much more involved after they were curb stomped.

I agree with Gophers_4Life. Part of that can be mental fatigue/demoralization from losing. And all those minutes are cumulative over the course of the year.

I'm disappointed with how the last 2 months went and I thought we would win a few more B10 games. I think the depth, and teams adjusting to our style (with no major counterpunch from us) was what did us in.

 

[MNVCGUY]

I also wonder about "fatigue". They played on Wednesday then Sunday, this isnt like we played a 4 game in 5 day thing. They are college athletes not fat slobs. They are 20ish years old with world class trainers, food experts, etc. Do I think playing 35+ min in a Big 10 game is tough, yah absolutely it is, but I have a tough time thinking 4 days later they are still just exhausted. Sure dings add up over the year but I just watched a UNC team that basically plays the same number of guys we do and didnt make one sub the entire 2nd half take it to a top 5 Duke team. I know its just the end of the world to say this to some people but we got exposed as the year went on, people figured out Johnson/team and we didnt adjust well. That is almost a given for a 1st year coach, but that needs to improve. At the 1/2 way point of the B1G year there was a lot of hope we as started to get the weaklings more, we seemingly got worse, that isnt a great sign.

I get your general point but comparing our situation to UNC is laughable. They might not go deep into their bench but they also have some of the top rated recruits in the entire country making up their starting lineup.

Teams absolutely adjusted to us but I am not sure what we realistically could have done to counter those adjustments given the roster limitations we had to work with. For example, rebounding was a problem all year but how do you fix it with no real size to work with? Some might say Thompson but he is a twig who offered almost zero resistance down low.

 

[eker0016]

Some will see it as making excuses but those 2 season ending injuries crippled this roster. This team showed a lot of fight but just didn't have the size/muscle/depth to matchup with teams in the Big Ten.

IMO Ben had a combo of bad planning and bad luck with the posts. Thought he could get Dawson Garcia. Almost had Filip Rebraca. Probably several other bigs I can't remember. Thought he had Ihnen and Fox. Charlie Daniels playing more than 10 minutes in a game is a real "Plan F" contingency.

 

[BarnBurner]

I get your general point but comparing our situation to UNC is laughable. They might not go deep into their bench but they also have some of the top rated recruits in the entire country making up their starting lineup.

Teams absolutely adjusted to us but I am not sure what we realistically could have done to counter those adjustments given the roster limitations we had to work with. For example, rebounding was a problem all year but how do you fix it with no real size to work with? Some might say Thompson but he is a twig who offered almost zero resistance down low.

Teams adjusted.
Nothing could be done realistically.
Roster limitations.
Problem rebounding.
How do you fix it.
No real size.

 

[MNVCGUY]

Teams adjusted.
Nothing could be done realistically.
Roster limitations.
Problem rebounding.
How do you fix it.
No real size.

We all know Johnson will do what he can to fix these issues before next season.

But since you have all the answers - how would you have fixed these problems during the season with the roster that was in place?

 

[BarnBurner]

We all know Johnson will do what he can to fix these issues before next season.

But since you have all the answers - how would you have fixed these problems during the season with the roster that was in place?

Must start long before the season, and you know that. Roster construction and management.

Your list of excuses was on par, you do not disappoint.

Do we now have culture that can carry the team to more wins?

 

[leib0039]

I get your general point but comparing our situation to UNC is laughable. They might not go deep into their bench but they also have some of the top rated recruits in the entire country making up their starting lineup.

Teams absolutely adjusted to us but I am not sure what we realistically could have done to counter those adjustments given the roster limitations we had to work with. For example, rebounding was a problem all year but how do you fix it with no real size to work with? Some might say Thompson but he is a twig who offered almost zero resistance down low.

I said zero about talent, I said FATIGUE. Obviously they are more talented, but Duke is also a superior talented team to NW. My point was more that a lot on here dismissed losing because we were going to play harder, tougher, grittier than the other team! Well now that we arent doing that its because we are tired, I am showing that other teams who dont play a bench don't seem to be tired. And overall what the idea of fatigue is. NEB doesnt play a ton of bench guys, they played the same number of games we did, they were short their best players yesterday, they didnt play tired or look beaten. I understand we are terrible at rebounding due to physical limitations, looking disinterested on defense was not something i can accept for a team that was supposed to make their money in that area of the game.

 

[Gophers_4life]

To a point I can buy this, but other teams didn't develop a magical power to keep the Gophers from playing good D and hustling to loose balls.

Getting down big early, can zap a lot of willpower/motivation.

 

[MNVCGUY]

Must start long before the season, and you know that. Roster construction and management.

Your list of excuses was on par, you do not disappoint.

Do we now have culture that can carry the team to more wins?

So for this particular season Johnson didn't have a lot of time to construct and manage the roster. He was hired and then had to build a roster almost entirely from scratch over just a couple of months. He then lost 2 of the key pieces of that reconstructed roster before the first game was even played.

We aren't talking about the kind of roster mismangement we saw during the Pitino years, this was a crazy situation where the new coach has to start from nothing and try and field a competitive team in a super short amount of time.

 

[Lion King]

The funny thing is we went 3-15 over our last 18. One of those wins was a blowout of Northwestern without Willis, the other win was against Rutgers without Battle, Curry, and Stephens.

Although this finish was expected by many at the beginning of the season, it feels like they should have won more with how the season started, and with the wins I just mentioned without top players.

Top players are supposed to help lesser players get confidence an play better, ours did opposite, ignored them and tried to do it all by themselves, that never works.

 

[BarnBurner]

So for this particular season Johnson didn't have a lot of time to construct and manage the roster. He was hired and then had to build a roster almost entirely from scratch over just a couple of months. He then lost 2 of the key pieces of that reconstructed roster before the first game was even played.

We aren't talking about the kind of roster mismangement we saw during the Pitino years, this was a crazy situation where the new coach has to start from nothing and try and field a competitive team in a super short amount of time.

This was not a crazy situation. It was a coaching change. They happen each and every season. To a lot of programs. Covid or no covid. Starting from nothing was praised here when it happened, and now you are using it as an excuse - along with a whole lot of other excuses. Previous rostered players were not wanted due to a change in culture, correct?

This particular season - other teams that experienced coaching changes were able to sign players that had a positive impact on team performance- wins. Other teams that experienced coaching changes maintained many players from the previous roster. Other teams that experienced coaching changes had a much more successful season - this season - than MN.

CBJ is responsible for it all. Wins and losses, in recruiting and games. Just like any other coach. There is no need to make excuses, however so many GH'ers continue to do it.

 

[GopherBlood777]

I think most will give Johnson a pass for his first year, myself included, but he did guarantee we would not finish in last place. Next season will bring a lot less room for excuses, but I am optimistic he will get better transfers with better circumstances this spring cycle.

 

[Lion King]

I would have loved to have seen what this team could have done:

Starters: Willis, Stephens, Battle, Fox, Curry
Bench: Loewe, Sutherlin, Ihnen, Thompson, Daniels, Thiam

That isn't a contender most likely but given what we saw out of group we had and the potential for what Fox would have brought to the table, that could easily have been at least a middle of the pack team in the Big Ten this year.

Some will see it as making excuses but those 2 season ending injuries crippled this roster. This team showed a lot of fight but just didn't have the size/muscle/depth to matchup with teams in the Big Ten.

Fox was Division 2

I JUST DON'T think you can assume he would have made a difference. Depth would have helped, but more wins,maybe,maybe not.

 

[BarnBurner]

I think most will give Johnson a pass for his first year, myself included, but he did guarantee we would not finish in last place. Next season will bring a lot less room for excuses, but I am optimistic he will get better transfers with better circumstances this spring cycle.

Agreed. Ben doesn't get a pass from me, and I get some of the challenges this season. Next season is critical, imo, for signing quality recruits and the overall trajectory of the program. Struggle this way next season and things will not be good.

 

[Spaulding!No!]

Yep, Ben guaranteed MN would not be last. Oops. Oh well, we just have to try harder and stay with our game plan.

 

[FullBanana]

Year zero.

 

[MNVCGUY]

Fox was Division 2

I JUST DON'T think you can assume he would have made a difference. Depth would have helped, but more wins,maybe,maybe not.

Obviously no way to know for sure but Fox was highly sought after in the portal by a ton of high major programs. Some guys are just late bloomers or take time to find their grove.

And his style of play would have been huge for this team because he does almost all his work on offense and defense near the rim which is something this team desperately needed this year.

The trio of Willis, Fox and Battle could have made for a very solid foundation to fill in around. Will be interesting to see what his game looks like when he takes the court next season.

 

[MRJ]

The bottom line here is that this team was probably always going to finish dead last. The roster was thin, both in terms of talent and depth. And we have a head coach who is literally training on the job while a lot of his players, quite frankly, aren't power five material. It's pretty embarrassing that a program not suffering from any sort of NCAA sanctions or major scandals has sunken to the depths this program has, but it is what it is.

The jury still remains out on whether Johnson is the coach this program needs. His recruiting class for next year doesn't include a single consensus top 150 player and this roster (as it is) is full of older guys that weren't ever going to contribute much (if at all) at the Big Ten level. In other words, this is a total rebuild and probably will take several years to accomplish.

If there is any hay to be made between now and next year, transfers are going to be the key. But Johnson can't have another roster like this one and expect folks to blindly compliment them on trying really hard as a means to excuse bottom level finishes. This is (supposedly) big time college athletics and is judged appropriately on wins and losses. Period.

But there at the very least needs to be noticeable improvement next season. Otherwise, the program will be mired in futility for the foreseeable future.

 

[ecoperson]

We exceeded expectations.
I’ve already said that. I thought they’d win 1-2 big ten games. They won 4.
that doesn’t mean I was wrong for saying this is a bad team.

Absolutely! I haven't followed your history on this subject here or on other threads. I think some took offense at the term 'bad' in your description. Bad implies that they are losing every game by 20 plus and offending our aesthetic love of basketball.

This team was extremely over-matched (as I expected) in conference. They kept turnovers to a minimum and, for the most part, continued to play a pleasing team-oriented and organized game of basketball. They just didn't have the horses or legs to hold up to a full season of ball.

In all but a couple of games, this team fought until the horn and made things respectable. Maybe I am splitting hairs but I do not think that is a definition of a bad team.

 

[Dakota2]

Teams adjusted.
Nothing could be done realistically.
Roster limitations.
Problem rebounding.
How do you fix it.
No real size.

All real, Jen.

 

[banababoat73]

I said this in another thread: we definitely saw some good things this year--things that looked like good coaching. But they just weren't the same team down the stretch, and it was more than just the quality of opponents. They were disconnected and seemingly uninterested on defense, and that's the opposite of the identity they had early on. They weren't making the hustle plays, weren't getting to loose balls and 50/50 balls, were getting outworked by teams they needed to outwork in order to beat. Like I've said elsewhere, I'll accept that at least some of that is exhaustion and the effects of the illnesses and injuries, Curry being especially hard hit (two injuries, one illness), and he's arguably the key player on the team. But it's good that we got to see the positive signs of good coaching early because they did not look like a well-coached team late.

What all exactly happened with this team is a mystery. Some of it is fatigue, but I don't buy that it's all fatigue. And the bots that keep replying to every post that they met or exceeded expectations can hold their tongue; that's not what this is about.

No way Curry is the "key player on the team." That belongs to Battle or Willis.

 

[banababoat73]

IMO Ben had a combo of bad planning and bad luck with the posts. Thought he could get Dawson Garcia. Almost had Filip Rebraca. Probably several other bigs I can't remember. Thought he had Ihnen and Fox. Charlie Daniels playing more than 10 minutes in a game is a real "Plan F" contingency.

Charlie Daniels reminds me of Bakary Konate.