Ben Johnson and this team

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The defensive efficiency is still last place (conf games only), as it was last year. Personnel does matter, but there was a thought that Johnson (& Thorson) would improve the team on that end of the court. Even though the roster and its key performers were new to the coaching staff and their principles, they were an experienced crew in terms of having played college basketball. That makes the lack of improvement relative to the B1G a little concerning.

When Pikiell took over Rutgers, they went from 14th to 7th in defense, despite winning only one conference game. They were 8th the next year despite winning only 3. So, it wasn't really that their talent was better, relative to the league. Pikiell is clearly a defensive-minded coach, but that kind of improvement wouldn't be out of line for expectations.
 

formerlybis said:
The defensive efficiency is still last place (conf games only), as it was last year. Personnel does matter, but there was a thought that Johnson (& Thorson) would improve the team on that end of the court. Even though the roster and its key performers were new to the coaching staff and their principles, they were an experienced crew in terms of having played college basketball. That makes the lack of improvement relative to the B1G a little concerning.

When Pikiell took over Rutgers, they went from 14th to 7th in defense, despite winning only one conference game. They were 8th the next year despite winning only 3. So, it wasn't really that their talent was better, relative to the league. Pikiell is clearly a defensive-minded coach, but that kind of improvement wouldn't be out of line for expectations.
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A lot of that probably has to giving up so many 2nd chance points and offensive rebounds.
 

golfing18now said:
It was an absurd task in part because he couldn’t convince anybody to stay. His first two tasks would have been to sell his vision to the players already here and then quickly fill out his staff. Both would have made the task of filling out his year one roster much easier. He wasn’t particularly adept at either. That doesn’t mean he will be a failure long term. But I’m not sure why we can’t evaluate these things honestly.
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Robbins left to follow his uncle. Who could have convinced him to stay? Mashburn left to follow Petino and have free reign to shoot. Who could have kept him here. Gabe left because he was a wreck and needed a change. Ben wanted him but couldn't convince him. Could another coach keep him? Doubtful. Gabe had a long relationship with Ben and respected him.

We improved on Williams with Stephens. Who else did you want to keep who would have been better than Battle or Fox. And Ben was wise enough to know you can not establish your culture and style of play with Carr.
 

MNVCGUY said:
Was going to post something to the same effect. Took a look at last year's roster and here is how I see it.

Gone no matter what:
Robbins - following his uncle
Mashburn - following Pitino
Carr - Seemed like there was no way he was coming back

Guys Johnson probably didn't want:
Tre' Williams - Did very little with Oregon State
Sam Freeman - Did very little with Pacific
Martice Mitchell - nothing listed for 2022 that I found

Guys that maybe could have helped:
Gach & Kalscheur - No clue how seriously either even considered sticking around and not sure either would have provided a major impact for this year's team.

There is only one true loss from last year's roster that potentially was an option to come back and that was Brandon Johnson. He could have really helped this year's team and had a very nice season for DePaul
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Yes, Brandon would have made a difference but Ben wanted Fox and got him. Fox never played and Johnson had a nice season. Fate could as well reversed that.
 



VanillaThunder said:
Hard to judge Ben on this season. He was thrown into a tough situation at a program mired in mediocrity for 24 years and counting.

He had 1 holdover player in Ihnen and another in Curry who returned for his 6th season. TT was a Pitino recruit who stayed.

Ben seems to have made in roads in local recruiting. Whether or not they develop is on him now.

His weakness from the outside looking in appears to be young player development. sample size of 2. Thiam was his recruit that got no PT even in non conference games. Same pretty much for TT. I don’t buy the crap that he was too skinny to put on the floor. Have you seen the Slim Reaper (Holmgren)? Not saying he is the same caliber of player at all, but he is 7’ tall and did provide some interior defense. In Ben’s defense, TT would have been better if used with an active and experienced post. Didn’t have one.

With so many one year fillers leaving after this season, Ben will need more transfers again. The quality of the transfers in should provide us with a better indication of where this program is headed.
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Thiam was one of several fillers so the team could practice.
 

Dakota2 said:
Robbins left to follow his uncle. Who could have convinced him to stay? Mashburn left to follow Petino and have free reign to shoot. Who could have kept him here. Gabe left because he was a wreck and needed a change. Ben wanted him but couldn't convince him. Could another coach keep him? Doubtful. Gabe had a long relationship with Ben and respected him.

We improved on Williams with Stephens. Who else did you want to keep who would have been better than Battle or Fox. And Ben was wise enough to know you can not establish your culture and style of play with Carr.
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I would have tried hard to keep Freeman for bulk in the middle. There is no doubt he was better than Daniels and still with upside.
 

Bad Gopher said:
I feel you have to give a young player a couple years before passing judgment on development. You look at our drunken neighbors to the east, and some of their more productive guys over the years did next to nothing their freshman year and came alive the following year through off-season development. Jordan Taylor was one, and Steven Crowl this year is another. TT was more highly rated coming out of HS than Crowl. If Thompson doesn't show more next year, then there might be something wrong on the development front.
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A difference though is that the team to the east is established and strong with a full roster of Big Ten players. That's why the guys you mention don't do much the first year. They are watching real veterans from the bench.

There is no place in the country where TT had a better chance to play than here.
 

Dakota2 said:
Thiam was one of several fillers so the team could practice.
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Does anyone believe that’s what cbj told the kid???

Not likely. Unless, of course, you have proof. Let’s see it.
 



Ogee Oglethorpe said:
He was thrown into a tough situation, without question. But if you can't judge a coach on how the team develops over the course of a full season, team improvement, etc. how can you judge a coach? Are they better today than they were in Nov/Dec? That is certainly a reasonable metric to use in assessing the effectiveness of the coach
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A lot of folks here don't seem to think we improved over the season. I agree but am not surprised. Other than Battle we were playing seniors who were in their final year of college basketball. That's beyond the time guys really improve. Battle improved.

Also, after our quick start in non conf, league teams saw our glaring interior weakness and exploited it.

And, seven guys running uphill every night got tired. Ben did a good job just holding it all together.
 


bga1 said:
I would have tried hard to keep Freeman for bulk in the middle. There is no doubt he was better than Daniels and still with upside.
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I agree there. No idea if Ben tried to keep him. I believe Freeman could have helped.
 

BarnBurner said:
Does anyone believe that’s what cbj told the kid???

Not likely. Unless, of course, you have proof. Let’s see it.
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I don't expect he told him much of anything other than offering a spot. Is it your feeling that Thiam was mulling offers from Auburn, Arizona, and Illinois along with Minnesota and Ben had to tell him something to convince him to sign? That's a little far out even for you, Maxine.
 



Dakota2 said:
A lot of folks here don't seem to think we improved over the season. I agree but am not surprised. Other than Battle we were playing seniors who were in their final year of college basketball. That's beyond the time guys really improve. Battle improved.

Also, after our quick start in non conf, league teams saw our glaring interior weakness and exploited it.

And, seven guys running uphill every night got tired. Ben did a good job just holding it all together.
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Hmmmm last place tho.
 

Dakota2 said:
I don't expect he told him much of anything other than offering a spot. Is it your feeling that Thiam was mulling offers from Auburn, Arizona, and Illinois along with Minnesota and Ben had to tell him something to convince him to sign? That's a little far out even for you, Maxine.
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Much of anything? To a kid you offered a scholarship? The kid didn’t want to know about playing time, expectations?
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
 

BarnBurner said:
Much of anything? To a kid you offered a scholarship? The kid didn’t want to know about playing time, expectations?
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
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Nope, not when Thiam had no other offer even remotely comparable. Playing time? Sure, whatever you earn in practice. We've got Luke Loewe, a pretty solid all around guy coming to handle the ball. If you show you can guard him and score on him once in awhile in practice, you'll be guy replacing him when he needs a break.

But your take? Someone offers you a promotion from mail room to CEO and you want to sit down and discuss how often your bathroom will be cleaned? Really, Maxine?
 


Well, it needs to be better than this next year.
 

Spottedmuskie said:
Outside of Brandon Johnson and Gabe, the rest really didn't play that well elsewhere. Gabe still shot bad, everyone needed a fresh start. How many ppg would Mashburn have averaged under Ben? Liam finally started playing, Gophers season was already over by that point.
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To be clear, I'm not suggesting any of these players would have singlehandedly transformed this team into a a tournament team. Robbins/Carr/Mashburn were likely gone in any case. But Freeman/Mitchell/Williams could have been depth pieces at worst or rotational players at best. Then maybe add one or two of the veterans from last year's team (Johnson/Kalscheur/Gach) and at least you would have some continuity and maybe a couple more pieces coming back next year. We keep hearing about this culture thing. I still don't understand how you develop culture year over year with another brand new team next team. More than anything, you can't have a situation where in game 30 or 31, you have four guys sitting on the bench not worthy of playing time. That's either some really underwhelming recruiting or underwhelming player development.

On to next year.....
 

golfing18now said:
To be clear, I'm not suggesting any of these players would have singlehandedly transformed this team into a a tournament team. Robbins/Carr/Mashburn were likely gone in any case. But Freeman/Mitchell/Williams could have been depth pieces at worst or rotational players at best. Then maybe add one or two of the veterans from last year's team (Johnson/Kalscheur/Gach) and at least you would have some continuity and maybe a couple more pieces coming back next year. We keep hearing about this culture thing. I still don't understand how you develop culture year over year with another brand new team next team. More than anything, you can't have a situation where in game 30 or 31, you have four guys sitting on the bench not worthy of playing time. That's either some really underwhelming recruiting or underwhelming player development.

On to next year.....
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I'm not disagreeing with you, but i can't even find any evidence that Mitchell played ANYWHERE this season, which may explain the transfer. He announced that he was transferring to NIU, but doesn't show up on their roster. It also says a lot about Pitino's talent evaluation abilities as I know he made the statement that Mitchell had NBA skills......
 

cheeseheadgophfan said:
I'm not disagreeing with you, but i can't even find any evidence that Mitchell played ANYWHERE this season, which may explain the transfer. He announced that he was transferring to NIU, but doesn't show up on their roster. It also says a lot about Pitino's talent evaluation abilities as I know he made the statement that Mitchell had NBA skills......
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I remember that last year, Pitino said on a KFAN interview
 

I expect every player to transfer out. This low expectation thing really works.
 


cheeseheadgophfan said:
I'm not disagreeing with you, but i can't even find any evidence that Mitchell played ANYWHERE this season, which may explain the transfer. He announced that he was transferring to NIU, but doesn't show up on their roster. It also says a lot about Pitino's talent evaluation abilities as I know he made the statement that Mitchell had NBA skills......
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Yes, a couple people mentioned his absence. Definitely not arguing that point. Of the names I listed, he would have been last on that list in terms of preference.

But last night was bizarre and was due in large part to what didn't happen last April (retaining any of the previous players), in my opinion.
 


Dakota2 said:
A lot of folks here don't seem to think we improved over the season. I agree but am not surprised. Other than Battle we were playing seniors who were in their final year of college basketball. That's beyond the time guys really improve. Battle improved.

Also, after our quick start in non conf, league teams saw our glaring interior weakness and exploited it.

And, seven guys running uphill every night got tired. Ben did a good job just holding it all together.
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Our talent was worse but, at times, we played exceptionally smart basketball.

The team finished in last place and there is no way to make that look good but I am optimistic that CBJ's style will be really effective with more talent. I am worried about his reluctance to play the bench but in all. . I am more optimistic of our team being led by Johnson than I was Pitino.

Next year will be really telling. . .
 

Who was the last mens gopher basketball coach who had some fire on the sideline? I wasn’t around for Clem was he on fire.
 



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