Ben Is the Coach - We Need Some Patience

[GopherBlood777]

Thompson and Ramberg rounding out the starting lineup was the weirdest. It feels like that starting lineup was 10 years ago.

To be fair that was very early in the year. Battle and Carrington were both hurt and he decided to start the older players. JOJ was starting in place of ramberg before too long.

 

[cjbfbp]

For the 1,000th time, no he didn't.

Look, here's the fact: he recruited almost an entirely new team. To what degree that was due to his own volition or the will of others, we'll never know so stop talking like you have inside knowledge that he could have kept most of those players.

 

[Dakota2]

Dakota, you may want to check your definition of success. I would call it an obvious failure because it cost time and focus.

My definition of success is targeting a Top 20 recruit and signing him rather than targeting a marginal DI player who would be thrilled to join a double year last place team and who would never be sought or offered money elsewhere.

Many here read my recruiting comments as general approval of the job Ben has done. They are not that at all.

A coach has two distinct tasks. Get the players and shape them into a sharp, disciplined unit that competes each night. Given Minnesota's flagging national reputation, he has done reasonably well as a recruiter. He has not done well at all in coaching his players.

 

[Dakota2]

I hate to belabor a point, but the silliness around rate of pay is tough to ignore. If Coyle was hiring the head coaching position for his University, call it Coyle University, there is zero chance he would have paid someone with zero head coaching experience, zero name recognition, and zero suiters to be competing against, the amount of money and protection Coach Johnson received.

However, on someone else's dime it is fine? It would have been 100% in coach Johnson's interest to take the job at a fractional amount. The school doing the hiring was offering an incredible promotion while taking on an inordinate amount of risk. It is not debatable. Why is there zero accountability on top of all the other zeros?

My usual disclaimers apply: Good for Coach Johnson, there is no need for him to feel bad for outsmarting seasoned bureaucrats who throw other people's money around like it doesn't matter.

We must also consider that Coyle is AD in name only with no autonomy to do his job and is simply a figure head on top of something that is fundamentally broken.

Which gets to my last point: when you don't know who to blame when something is broken it is a clear sign you are dealing with an incredibly poorly designed bureaucracy or an very well designed one depending upon what side of it you are on.

Ben's a plenty smart guy but it took no brains at all to outwit the children in charge.

 

[Spaulding!No!]

Ben's a plenty smart guy but it took no brains at all to outwit the children in charge.

He got a raise!

 

[scools12]

Ben Johnson will be fired.

So the only patience needed is waiting patiently until it happens.

 

[CentralGopher]

Johnson took over a program without a team. How much more "complete disarray" can you get than that? Haskins at least had about 4 holdovers and a freshman class that would later develop into starters and stars. Then Johnson had to deal with an almost completely new team in his second year.

Nobody ever expects Johnson to develop into Haskins but to suggest that he hasn't had as tough of starting circumstances as just about anyone is crazy.

Perhaps everyone but Ihnen leaving was the canary in the coal mine and many of us missed it?

 

[Holy Man]

Perhaps everyone but Ihnen leaving was the canary in the coal mine and many of us missed it?

Perhaps but there was plenty of speculation the locker room wasn’t a healthy place in Pitino last season. We’ll never know who Ben wanted and didn’t. Probably more than one but considerably less than all.

 

[cjbfbp]

Perhaps everyone but Ihnen leaving was the canary in the coal mine and many of us missed it?

Perhaps you are right but he wasn't the only coach to experience that rate of attrition in that year. However, we could speculate plausible rationales for many of these departures:

Marcus Carr - wanted to go to a more successful program where his talents would make more of a difference and he'd have a bigger spotlight.

Brandon Johnson - jumped at a chance to go home.

Liam Robbins - preferred to follow his uncle and maybe preferred going to Vanderbilt in TN to staying here (if I were a CB player, I'd probably prefer that)

Gabe - wanted a fresh start and to get out of the hometown fishbowl; may have also had significant contacts at IA State (lots of Minnesotans go there)

Mashburn - preferred to follow Pitino who he knew would play him a lot; maybe wanted to leave Minnesota too

Nobody else who left really mattered that much. I'm certainly glad Tre' Williams left.

This is a tough job. I'm not sure the program can be improved greatly until if and when the university decides to pony up for an accomplished veteran.

 

[skiumah1]

He has not done well at all in coaching his players

This is where I can’t come around for next year.

I wanna have hope IF we pull a couple talented guys out of the portal.

I’m just not convinced whatsoever in Ben’s ability to coach winning basketball.

Maybe we get the talent for next year and get 5-7 Big 10 wins. Is that ever really going to translate to anything more down the road?

No.

EDIT* However, I have surely learned in life I can be wrong. I’m pulling hard for Ben to get talent / skill out of the portal. And hopefully he can get the main core to stay as well. Then I guess we’ll see what happens.

At this point I don’t expect much from this staff and the evidence supports that, but it’s really not fun to be hopeless. I’m not quite there.

 

[Ewert86PC]

Perhaps you are right but he wasn't the only coach to experience that rate of attrition in that year. However, we could speculate plausible rationales for many of these departures:

Marcus Carr - wanted to go to a more successful program where his talents would make more of a difference and he'd have a bigger spotlight.

Brandon Johnson - jumped at a chance to go home.

Liam Robbins - preferred to follow his uncle and maybe preferred going to Vanderbilt in TN to staying here (if I were a CB player, I'd probably prefer that)

Gabe - wanted a fresh start and to get out of the hometown fishbowl; may have also had significant contacts at IA State (lots of Minnesotans go there)

Mashburn - preferred to follow Pitino who he knew would play him a lot; maybe wanted to leave Minnesota too

Nobody else who left really mattered that much. I'm certainly glad Tre' Williams left.

This is a tough job. I'm not sure the program can be improved greatly until if and when the university decides to pony up for an accomplished veteran.

This is legitimately a passive-aggressive statement that Minnesota is a place people want to leave. Wisconsin and Iowa love this stuff because they always talk up their states, but in Minnesota that's bragging and our false humility keeps us from remembering why this is a good place to be. Unfortunately, those good things are found outside the University of Minnesota community.

 

[SonoranGopher1]

Man I am missing the days of Coffey, Murphy, Oturo, Mcbreyer, Lynch throwing down hard dunks. Mason hitting jumpers like nobody’s business. Every day the Gophers men’s basketball team took the court those years you knew it would be a bad day for the rim and a hard day for the opposition. Now all you Pitino haters are seeing the other end of the spectrum. Cart was one of the best recruits the Gophers ever had and if Pitino was still here so should he.

 

[SonoranGopher1]

 

[Gopher Teeth]

Perhaps you are right but he wasn't the only coach to experience that rate of attrition in that year. However, we could speculate plausible rationales for many of these departures:

Marcus Carr - wanted to go to a more successful program where his talents would make more of a difference and he'd have a bigger spotlight.

Brandon Johnson - jumped at a chance to go home.

Liam Robbins - preferred to follow his uncle and maybe preferred going to Vanderbilt in TN to staying here (if I were a CB player, I'd probably prefer that)

Gabe - wanted a fresh start and to get out of the hometown fishbowl; may have also had significant contacts at IA State (lots of Minnesotans go there)

Mashburn - preferred to follow Pitino who he knew would play him a lot; maybe wanted to leave Minnesota too

Nobody else who left really mattered that much. I'm certainly glad Tre' Williams left.

This is a tough job. I'm not sure the program can be improved greatly until if and when the university decides to pony up for an accomplished veteran.

The other tell was nobody came from Xavier even though there were a number of portal entrants.

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

This is legitimately a passive-aggressive statement that Minnesota is a place people want to leave.

Well……

Wisconsin and Iowa love this stuff because they always talk up their states, but in Minnesota that's bragging and our false humility keeps us from remembering why this is a good place to be. Unfortunately, those good things are found outside the University of Minnesota community.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

Look, here's the fact: he recruited almost an entirely new team. To what degree that was due to his own volition or the will of others, we'll never know so stop talking like you have inside knowledge that he could have kept most of those players.

And so does every other coach who has taken a new job since the free transfer was allowed.

 

[SelectionSunday]

It looks like the NCAA list is missing some teams. I don't see St. Thomas and a couple others.

I don't know why they left off certain teams and I've heard 352 all season. My guess is that their folks just used the NCAA site too.

There are 363 teams, but teams transitioning to D1 (such as St. Thomas) are excluded from the stats. That seems kind of silly, really.

 

[Gopherfan84]

Perhaps but there was plenty of speculation the locker room wasn’t a healthy place in Pitino last season. We’ll never know who Ben wanted and didn’t. Probably more than one but considerably less than all.

We know who Ben wanted by when and how they left. The last ones to leave Both, Brandon, and Gabe were recruited and wanted here. Ben wasn’t able to keep them. It is what it is.

 

[BarnBurner]

All fair points. Payne has really taken a big step up in recent games.

I don’t know that starting Payne at this point really changes anything for this season so might play into why they are not shaking things up.

Important part to me is that he is logging significant minutes and showing signs of some serious potential. Both Payne and JOJ have been bright spots in a crap season.

You watch so closely you think JOJ jumps the tipoff!!

 

[BarnBurner]

I love when people preach to Gopher fans to be patient. WE'RE MORE THAN FN PATIENT!!! We've advanced past the first weekend of the NCAA Tournament 1 time since 1990. 1 TIME!!!!!!!! We haven't been a Rose Bowl since JFK was in office. JFK!!!!!!!

There's not a P5 fan base more patient than us. It's getting a bit old though.

Go Gophers!!

100000000%

 

[Wet_Blanket_Guy]

Garcia takes the tip every game he starts. JOJ just feels like a redundant player when he is on the floor as a starter because him, Battle, and Garcia are basically all natural 4's. I would prefer him in a reserve role spelling Garcia/Battle. We don't have any other players like Payne and he has the highest field goal % of anyone on the team. He is also our strongest rebounder which has been a weakness this season. "He is doing good coming off the bench so trust the coach" is not something you give the benefit of doubt on when the team is 1-15 in conference. The most effective lineup multiple times this year has been Cooper/Carrington/Battle/Garcia/Payne. I can understand starting Henley over Carrington, but no way Payne should be coming off the bench on THIS team specifically. He brings too much to what we are lacking as a team.

The issue with starting Payne and Garcia at the same time (while it should happen) is that who do you bring off the bench to play Center? If we go with this lineup, we are agreeing to give Thompson about 10 minutes a game…and we know he isn’t a center.

The gophers for the complete log game of bigs are completely lacking any real size outside of Payne who can defend bigs. Garcia and Thompson are matadors on defense against bigs with size. Another poor roster construction CBJ issue. A portal target should be a center (6”10-7’1 who is 260+ and is defense focused and can bang). I didn’t see Evans banging due to his frail frame, but center depth is an issue.

 

[GopherBlood777]

The issue with starting Payne and Garcia at the same time (while it should happen) is that who do you bring off the bench to play Center? If we go with this lineup, we are agreeing to give Thompson about 10 minutes a game…and we know he isn’t a center.

The gophers for the complete log game of bigs are completely lacking any real size outside of Payne who can defend bigs. Garcia and Thompson are matadors on defense against bigs with size. Another poor roster construction CBJ issue. A portal target should be a center (6”10-7’1 who is 260+ and is defense focused and can bang). I didn’t see Evans banging due to his frail frame, but center depth is an issue.

I agree however I would have TT play the backup C minutes. He is the next closest thing on the roster and there is no way anyone can argue we would be worse. TT has as many conference wins as a starter as the current squad has this season.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

The issue with starting Payne and Garcia at the same time (while it should happen) is that who do you bring off the bench to play Center? If we go with this lineup, we are agreeing to give Thompson about 10 minutes a game…and we know he isn’t a center.

Who are we starting at center today? Why is it more of an issue to not have a center off the bench instead of just not starting a center, which is what they're doing now.

 

[Ewert86PC]

Well……

Well, what?

It's okay to stay in Minnesota. I realize that relocation and reinvention are wonderful things but having a solid foundation requires work.

 

[USAF]

 

[cjbfbp]

The other tell was nobody came from Xavier even though there were a number of portal entrants.

Well, let's take a closer look at that.

There were only three transfers from Xavier that season.

Jason Carter
Daniel Ramsey
C.J. Wilcher

Carter - Given how short our front line was of capable players in 2022, he would have helped us but let's look at his history. He's from Ohio (near Columbus) and began his career with three years at Ohio University before transferring to Xavier (also in Ohio). After the 2021 season, he transferred back to Ohio University for his final season. Obviously, he had a preference for staying close to his home base.

Ramsey - He was a sophomore forward (with good size) in 2021 but he had played in only two games in two years. He transferred down to Tennessee Tech where he's averaged between 15 and 16 minutes per game in two years. I can see why Johnson didn't go after him.

Wilcher - a guard who would have helped us last year (certainly more than Thiam!) and this year. I seem to remember his name being mentioned here at the time. Even if Johnson recruited him, it's understandable why he would have chosen to go with Hoiberg. Hoiberg may have had an undistinguished career at Nebraska but he had a far better career as a player than most coaches, had a very good coaching career at ISU, and placed multiple players in the NBA.

So, I would say Johnson had little chance of getting the first, no compelling reason to recruit the second, and, if he recruited the third, lost out to a coach with a far better resume.

 

[cjbfbp]

We know who Ben wanted by when and how they left. The last ones to leave Both, Brandon, and Gabe were recruited and wanted here. Ben wasn’t able to keep them. It is what it is.

We know who killed the victim because a couple of witnesses saw him eating with three guys at a restaurant on the evening of the murder. The killer(s) is(are) one or more of those three.

Are you serious? There are multiple possible reasons for the ordering of transfers.

I remember Both and Brandon being among the last to leave but I seem to remember Gabe leaving earlier. Robbins left fairly late.

 

[formerlybis]

The last thing they need is another C, even if TT leaves. Garcia should be able to guard 5s for whatever amount of time Payne is sitting. Some combo of the remaining 6 PFs on the team can slide over to guard the 4 when either of them needs a break. But one of them should be on the floor at all times.

 

[cjbfbp]

This is legitimately a passive-aggressive statement that Minnesota is a place people want to leave. Wisconsin and Iowa love this stuff because they always talk up their states, but in Minnesota that's bragging and our false humility keeps us from remembering why this is a good place to be. Unfortunately, those good things are found outside the University of Minnesota community.

I was talking more about basketball players in this program, not the state or "people" in general.
All of those reasons I gave for departures were plausible alternative explanations to "Ben Johnson" to explain why players left.

As far as this state goes, I've lived in five states as an adult. I will say that this one has the highest quality of life of the five. I wouldn't say the people in this state are any more humble or boastful than people anywhere else. Certainly this board is no paragon of humility. The only state where I encountered a particular pride about being a native of the state was Iowa but that is not unusual for small states.

Unfortunately, this state is cold, far colder than all but a few places in the USA. After you live here for a time, you become acclimated to that and learn to embrace the winter to at least some degree but, for the uninitiated, that is a real barrier for the majority of them.

 

[benlaur]

My definition of success is targeting a Top 20 recruit and signing him rather than targeting a marginal DI player who would be thrilled to join a double year last place team and who would never be sought or offered money elsewhere.

Many here read my recruiting comments as general approval of the job Ben has done. They are not that at all.

A coach has two distinct tasks. Get the players and shape them into a sharp, disciplined unit that competes each night. Given Minnesota's flagging national reputation, he has done reasonably well as a recruiter. He has not done well at all in coaching his players.

In this case, my definition of success is the final outcome.