Before you give up on Pitino...

[LongLiveMilesTarver]

LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

Foster also would have helped with our FT woes.

3 for 14 on the season.

Ellis is 5 for 23 from the floor.

 

[GophersInIowa]

Those rankings between the 4th to 10th teams in the B1G are very interchangeable and subjective. If we are rated high it's because we are bringing in more players than most of the other teams in the B1G.

It's because we've signed a good amount of quality recruits. Just bringing in 4 random guys doesn't get you rated in the top half of the conference.

We don't have one top 100 rated player coming in next year. It's an average B1G class.

Dorsey is raked 86th by Rivals. It's a good (not great) class. Considering our history, a good class is a step in the right direction.

Better than Rutgers and Northwestern are probably getting, but not as good as what Ohio State and Michigan State usually bring in.

No argument there.

Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Wisconsin, Michigan, Maryland and Purdue will probably have better classes than the Gophers on average. Nebraska's is probably about the same. If we have a higher rated class it's more than likely because we have more players coming in.

My argument was about this year, not on average. What we need to see is if Pitino can consistently be at the level of these programs. I don't think it is impossible for us to not be at this level in recruiting just about every year.

But in this year's class, three of the four recruits have a lot of offers from these programs and programs like them. Dorsey and Johnson have a ton of good offers.

 

[3399]

In their first few seasons as head coach of a major conference school.

Coach A:
1980-81: 17-13 (6-8), NIT 3rd round
1981-82: 10-17 (4-10), no tourney
1982-83: 11-17 (3-11), no tourney

Coach B:
1995-96: 16-16 (9-9), NIT 2nd round
1996-97: 17-12 (9-9), NIT 2nd round

Coach C:
1996-97: 13-17 (5-11), no tourney
1997-98: 14-15 (6-10), NIT 1st round











Coach A is Mike Krzyzewski, B is Tom Izzo, C is Billy Donovan. You don't always see the results right away, some great coaches start off slow. Not saying Pitino will be a great coach, but it's a little early to lose hope. Be patient.

Richard Pitino might develop into a good coach, but your criteria is flawed. First, Tom Izzo was an assistant at MSU under Jud Heathcote from 1983-1995. That set him up very well for success. He has stated many times how much he learned from Jud. Being that for that length of time probably helped him to understand the process of developing players and a team much more than Pitino, who had only short stints as an assistant at multiple schools.

Krzyzewski was the head coach at Army from 1975-1980. Coaching at Army is not easy. Having success there and learning from Bob Knight probably was prepared him well.

Billy Donovan played on a Final FOur team and also had a short stint in the NBA. Spent five years an assistant at Kentucky and two years head coach at Marshall. The combination of his experiences as a player and coach probably prepared him more than Pitino's experiences.

 

[bleedsmaroonandgold]

If we had Tubby we would have Alex Foster! He looks like the prototypical Tubby big man. And Alvin Ellis.

They certainly would have been upgrades...

I can pretty much guarantee that with Alex Foster and Alvin Ellis, we would at least be within 2 B1G wins of where we are at right now.

 

[ethomasp31]

So many horrible takes in this thread recently, this one might be the worst though the sheer volume of takes from ethomasp31 certainly is impressive. Tubby Smith was fired because he was NEVER above .500 in conference play in SIX years and there was literally zero chance of him changing that stat in year seven. I would say that "only at Minnesota would a coach get 6 years under such a scenario". I agree with you that Pitino is not a "success" if he "makes the tournament" in year four. That's an extremely low bar. If the Gophers are a 8 seed or worse and the talent in the program doesn't have the fan base thinking that years 5 and 6 look better than year 4, then Pitino is certainly not a success.

As for EThomasP31, we'd have a 300 plus pound Mo Walker embarrassing himself on the court if Tubby Smith was still coaching this team. Watching him sumo wrestle (and LOSE) to the obese center that played for Nebraska in Tubby's final season was one of the low lights of Smith's tenure. How about Andre Hollins playing point guard for Tubby the past two years? That would have worked out great seeing as how his ball handling skills are below average for a two. How about more recruits like Foster, Ellis, Ellenson, and Buggs...those are Tubby's last 4 "gets" at Minnesota and exactly ZERO of them have had an impact for their respective teams.

Pitino deserves criticism and I hate to use the football analogy, but this is very close to what Mason (who left his program in worse shape than Brewster did) left Tim Brewster. You had a group of guys that didn't accomplish all that much in their Senior years but were the best pieces on the roster (Mbakwe/Williams etc in Basketball, Cupito/Spaeth etc in football) leaving after an ok year in hoops and a bad year in football with rosters that were left barren by several poor recruiting classes by a coach who had gone stale, lost interest (pick your reason). Pitino inherited one year of Austin Hollins and two years of Andre Hollins with literally nothing else of value...he made Walker in to a valuable player last year. He inherited a program that did not have a player capable of playing PG or PF in the B1G (still doesn't have a PF) and somehow patched together a season that exceeded most of our expectations last year. This year has certainly been a BIG step back and Pitino deserves criticism for that. That said it's flat out INSANE to think this program would be in better shape today that it is no with Tubby Smith still at the helm.

Argue that Pitino was not the right choice by Teague, at least that's an interesting hypothetical. Suggesting that Tubby Smith would have done a better job the past season and a half is hilarious and worthy of mockery.

Who said I wanted Tubby back? I said in three classes I don't think Pitino has upgraded the roster. We are looking at 5-13 or 6-12 this season and I think he has an average B1G recruiting class coming in. All those teams I mentioned....if they have spots open are getting players very similar to the players we are bringing in. It's an average B1G recruiting class....not as good as MSU or tOSU, but better than what Rutgers and Northwestern bring in. Go look at the recruites the other schools in the B1G are bringing in....they are ranked very similarly to the new Gophers. If you don't think so you are bringing in maroon tinted glasses.

 

[Seany]

Not giving up on Pitino. We have had some really unfortunate games just not go our way. I mean, 6 out of 7 losses by two possesions or less? That is just crazy. We are also a really thin team as far as depth is concerned. It is getting better giving players some increased minutes getting ready for next year, but the rest of this season is probably lost.

I will admit, some of the losses, including last night, have been a painful brand of basketball to watch. Lots & lots of sloppy play. Hopefully that improves throughout the rest of the B1G Ten season.

I'm not giving up on Pitino either, and I don't believe that many (if any) here truly are. To do so at this point would be absolutely ludicrous in my opinion. To me he's just young, inexperienced, and unproven. Maybe he'll turn out to be a gem, maybe a dud, maybe something in between- however, given the fact he's grown up around the game since childhood, and given the benefit of some of the persons he has been mentored by, I certainly would not bet against him, in fact I could quite easily see him growing into becoming a very good basketball coach.

I do kind of take issue with your statement that "We have had some really unfortunate games just not go our way", due to the fact that they've not just gone our way, but that we haven't done the simple things which might make them go our way, as exemplified by that stat they showed the other night about our FT% in the final five minutes of B10 games this season, that being a rousing 36%. 36%, wow, I mean that's almost unbelievable. I don't even know what to think about it, because I have never even seen such a statistic as that. That is simply a massive and collective failure on the part of the team, and one which certainly cannot be lain at the feet of Pitino nor his coaches, as they are surely not telling their boys in crunch-time "Well, here we are again, fellas. Now you guys get out there and brick 64% of your foul shots.". This team's continual failures to convert opportunities down the stretch, especially the gifted opportunities like free throws, I just don't know. It's baffling to me. Maybe the team really is just that mentally and/or emotionally weak. At any rate, we haven't been so much 'unlucky' as simply failed to generate or convert our own luck.

And we are hardly the only team with a bunch of close losses, I mean look at Northwestern. They started out their current 6 game slide by getting blown off the court by Wisconsin, and then a 84-77 OT loss at Michigan State, a 72-67 loss vs. Illinois, a 56-54 loss at Michigan, a 69-67 loss vs. Ohio State, and then the 68-67 loss at Maryland. So it happens, but that's them, not us, and I think we all felt like this team would be a whole heck of a lot better than that.

 

[jamiche]

I'm not giving up on Pitino either, and I don't believe that many (if any) here truly are. To do so at this point would be absolutely ludicrous in my opinion. To me he's just young, inexperienced, and unproven. Maybe he'll turn out to be a gem, maybe a dud, maybe something in between- however, given the fact he's grown up around the game since childhood, and given the benefit of some of the persons he has been mentored by, I certainly would not bet against him, in fact I could quite easily see him growing into becoming a very good basketball coach.

I do kind of take issue with your statement that "We have had some really unfortunate games just not go our way", due to the fact that they've not just gone our way, but that we haven't done the simple things which might make them go our way, as exemplified by that stat they showed the other night about our FT% in the final five minutes of B10 games this season, that being a rousing 36%. 36%, wow, I mean that's almost unbelievable. I don't even know what to think about it, because I have never even seen such a statistic as that. That is simply a massive and collective failure on the part of the team, and one which certainly cannot be lain at the feet of Pitino nor his coaches, as they are surely not telling their boys in crunch-time "Well, here we are again, fellas. Now you guys get out there and brick 64% of your foul shots.". This team's continual failures to convert opportunities down the stretch, especially the gifted opportunities like free throws, I just don't know. It's baffling to me. Maybe the team really is just that mentally and/or emotionally weak. At any rate, we haven't been so much 'unlucky' as simply failed to generate or convert our own luck.

And we are hardly the only team with a bunch of close losses, I mean look at Northwestern. They started out their current 6 game slide by getting blown off the court by Wisconsin, and then a 84-77 OT loss at Michigan State, a 72-67 loss vs. Illinois, a 56-54 loss at Michigan, a 69-67 loss vs. Ohio State, and then the 68-67 loss at Maryland. So it happens, but that's them, not us, and I think we all felt like this team would be a whole heck of a lot better than that.

I think that you make a number of good points but we disagree about free throws to a certain extent. Both the players and the coaches bear responsibility for that end of game stat. (Yes, I know the coaches aren't shooting.) Thirty six percent at the end of games is about lack of confidence and Pitino can help with that.

As I've said, Pitino will learn a lot from this year and he will become a better coach, a really good major program coach, in fact. I don't think he's there yet.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

but better than what Rutgers and Northwestern bring in.

Rutgers and Northwestern have both have a 4* recruit coming in next year. Rutgers is ranked 75th - better than Dorsey and Northwestern's is ranked 99th, 13 spots lower than Dorsey.
So to the couple of quotes that mentioned this above, they should instead read 'Next year's Gophers class is similar to what Rutgers and Northwestern bring in'

 

[TheBulldog]

Only at Minnesota would you fire a coach who made the tournament 3 out of 6 years, the last year actually making it to the round of 32 before you fire him, then bring in an unproven coach and call it a success if he makes the tournament for the first time in year 4

I think that is a perspective a lot of people have lost already. This program was very respectable under Tubby, they just never got over the hump. He was haunted by some hard-luck injuries in years that they had a real chance at a deep post-season run. People act as if Tubby was awful and destroyed the program, and Pitino is the annointed can-do-no-wrong savior, simply because his last name is Pitino. If his last name was.... say, Monson.....he would have been run out of the gym with pitchforks and torches already. That absolutely cannot be denied. I don't care how much Pitino kool-aid you are drinking (Keep in mind, this is coming from a guy who was a huge fan of the coaching change when it happened, and I still am today, I'm just starting to get slightly alarmed).

Something that is being understated is the effect that this awful season will have on the potential "future success" of the program. Future success is something that Pitino-heads think is all but guaranteed by his last name. I do not believe that....at all. Recruits will "cool" on his last name very quickly if the team sucks. He would have a much easier time getting elite talent if they were a tournament team (even a bubble team) this year. As we know, they actually aren't that far off. They could easily be 5-3 in the B1G with the exact same team. But, again, it isn't horseshoes, and Pitino isn't throwing hand grenades. Getting "close" does nothing for anyone.

What does this bad season do for Coffey's decision on MN vs. IA St, seeing the Gophers at the rock bottom of the B1G and Iowa St. knocking off teams like Kansas on national TV (something a bottom dwelling B1G team doesn't really get the opportunity to do). If you were studying to be a doctor, would you rather do residency at the Mayo Clinic, or the Hennepin County Medical Center, if givin the choice? I think this question will end up being the pivot point of Pitino's future: What does this disastrous season do to recruiting next year? This team needs a heck of a lot more than Hurt.

 

[Plainviewgopher]

Pitino is young and hungry yet.... Have faith!

 

[bleedsmaroonandgold]

I think that is a perspective a lot of people have lost already. This program was very respectable under Tubby, they just never got over the hump. He was haunted by some hard-luck injuries in years that they had a real chance at a deep post-season run. People act as if Tubby was awful and destroyed the program, and Pitino is the annointed can-do-no-wrong savior, simply because his last name is Pitino. If his last name was.... say, Monson.....he would have been run out of the gym with pitchforks and torches already. That absolutely cannot be denied. I don't care how much Pitino kool-aid you are drinking (Keep in mind, this is coming from a guy who was a huge fan of the coaching change when it happened, and I still am today, I'm just starting to get slightly alarmed).

Something that is being understated is the effect that this awful season will have on the potential "future success" of the program. Future success is something that Pitino-heads think is all but guaranteed by his last name. I do not believe that....at all. Recruits will "cool" on his last name very quickly if the team sucks. He would have a much easier time getting elite talent if they were a tournament team (even a bubble team) this year. As we know, they actually aren't that far off. They could easily be 5-3 in the B1G with the exact same team. But, again, it isn't horseshoes, and Pitino isn't throwing hand grenades. Getting "close" does nothing for anyone.

What does this bad season do for Coffey's decision on MN vs. IA St, seeing the Gophers at the rock bottom of the B1G and Iowa St. knocking off teams like Kansas on national TV (something a bottom dwelling B1G team doesn't really get the opportunity to do). If you were studying to be a doctor, would you rather do residency at the Mayo Clinic, or the Hennepin County Medical Center, if givin the choice? I think this question will end up being the pivot point of Pitino's future: What does this disastrous season do to recruiting next year? This team needs a heck of a lot more than Hurt.

In my opinion, Tubby was very similar to Mason. He took us from embarrassing and brought us back to mediocre. Never really had a dominant season, but both had seasons where it looked like they could be amazing but then fell flat on their face (going from 8th ranked in the nation to 9th seed in the BTT for Tubby, blowing an enormous fourth quarter lead to Michigan to keep us out of the Rose Bowl for Mason). They both had that one season that was good by our crappy standards (Tubby to round of 32, Mason with a 10 win season, neither of which happen often here but hardly the kind of seasons that a good program would want to hang their hat on). They both had a propensity for blowing late leads.

Hopefully Pitino isn't Tubby's Brewster (lot of hype, not a lot of head coaching experience, good salesman, no results). One of my friends this season asked me "can you imagine where we would be at now had we hired Kill instead of Brewster after Mason?" I think I would like those results, and hopefully Pitino is more like Kill (in terms of success and improvement, obviously Pitino and Kill are very different coaches with different philosophies).

 

[howeda7]

In my opinion, Tubby was very similar to Mason. He took us from embarrassing and brought us back to mediocre. Never really had a dominant season, but both had seasons where it looked like they could be amazing but then fell flat on their face (going from 8th ranked in the nation to 9th seed in the BTT for Tubby, blowing an enormous fourth quarter lead to Michigan to keep us out of the Rose Bowl for Mason). They both had that one season that was good by our crappy standards (Tubby to round of 32, Mason with a 10 win season, neither of which happen often here but hardly the kind of seasons that a good program would want to hang their hat on). They both had a propensity for blowing late leads.

Hopefully Pitino isn't Tubby's Brewster (lot of hype, not a lot of head coaching experience, good salesman, no results). One of my friends this season asked me "can you imagine where we would be at now had we hired Kill instead of Brewster after Mason?" I think I would like those results, and hopefully Pitino is more like Kill (in terms of success and improvement, obviously Pitino and Kill are very different coaches with different philosophies).

Disagree that Mason and Tubby were the same in not having 'dominant' seasons. Yes, 2003 will always be remembered for the Michigan game, but they won several more games after that and finished in the top 20. They also finished in the top 20 in 1999. No Tubby team ever sniffed the Top 20 after the calendar said February. Not the same, IMO.

 

[cjbfbp]

Coffey is Pitino's White and Williams.

I certainly hope not (I'm assuming you're talking about Rodney Williams). One of those players was a perennial head case who played one fine season of college basketball (not for Minnesota) in his third year out of high school and then proceeded to wash out of the pros (because he held out and refused to fly for his first team and because he failed to get in the required shape for his second). He managed to play a grand total of 3 minutes in the NBA for his third team. The other player could run and jump like a deer but never became a very good basketball player. The U of M would have been better off if Tubby had passed on White and might have done better elsewhere if he passed on Williams.

To be sure, Coffey is highly rated but there are issues with him. His father seems to want him to play a point forward and, given what Pitino has already recruited, the last thing he probably needs is another guy who has to have the ball in his hands. Looking ahead, I don't see the guy filling a critical team need.

As far as getting excited about recruiting local players vs. players from elsewhere, my question is why? If they recruit a guy from Turkey and he demonstrates that he can play after he arrives here, then I'll be very excited about him.

 

[Maximus]

Disagree that Mason and Tubby were the same in not having 'dominant' seasons. Yes, 2003 will always be remembered for the Michigan game, but they won several more games after that and finished in the top 20. They also finished in the top 20 in 1999. No Tubby team ever sniffed the Top 20 after the calendar said February. Not the same, IMO.

Top 20 out of 120 + football teams

Top 40-50 out of 300 + basketball teams

 

[scher215]

I certainly hope not (I'm assuming you're talking about Rodney Williams). One of those players was a perennial head case who played one fine season of college basketball (not for Minnesota) in his third year out of high school and then proceeded to wash out of the pros (because he held out and refused to fly for his first team and because he failed to get in the required shape for his second). He managed to play a grand total of 3 minutes in the NBA for his third team. The other player could run and jump like a deer but never became a very good basketball player. The U of M would have been better off if Tubby had passed on White and might have done better elsewhere if he passed on Williams. To be sure, Coffey is highly rated but there are issues with him. His father seems to want him to play a point forward and, given what Pitino has already recruited, the last thing he probably needs is another guy who has to have the ball in his hands. Looking ahead, I don't see the guy filling a critical team need. As far as getting excited about recruiting local players vs. players from elsewhere, my question is why? If they recruit a guy from Turkey and he demonstrates that he can play after he arrives here, then I'll be very excited about him.

Not to turn this into a Rodney debate. But watch Buggs play compared to what Rodney did. People say both are just athletes with no skill, yet Rodney played, started, put up great Gopher numbers, had NBA draft talk, and now plays basketball professionally. Rodney was skilled. Just not to the point many expected him to be.

 

[Ski U Mah Gopher]

I think that is a perspective a lot of people have lost already. This program was very respectable under Tubby, they just never got over the hump. He was haunted by some hard-luck injuries in years that they had a real chance at a deep post-season run. People act as if Tubby was awful and destroyed the program, and Pitino is the annointed can-do-no-wrong savior, simply because his last name is Pitino. If his last name was.... say, Monson.....he would have been run out of the gym with pitchforks and torches already. That absolutely cannot be denied. I don't care how much Pitino kool-aid you are drinking (Keep in mind, this is coming from a guy who was a huge fan of the coaching change when it happened, and I still am today, I'm just starting to get slightly alarmed).

Something that is being understated is the effect that this awful season will have on the potential "future success" of the program. Future success is something that Pitino-heads think is all but guaranteed by his last name. I do not believe that....at all. Recruits will "cool" on his last name very quickly if the team sucks. He would have a much easier time getting elite talent if they were a tournament team (even a bubble team) this year. As we know, they actually aren't that far off. They could easily be 5-3 in the B1G with the exact same team. But, again, it isn't horseshoes, and Pitino isn't throwing hand grenades. Getting "close" does nothing for anyone.

What does this bad season do for Coffey's decision on MN vs. IA St, seeing the Gophers at the rock bottom of the B1G and Iowa St. knocking off teams like Kansas on national TV (something a bottom dwelling B1G team doesn't really get the opportunity to do). If you were studying to be a doctor, would you rather do residency at the Mayo Clinic, or the Hennepin County Medical Center, if givin the choice? I think this question will end up being the pivot point of Pitino's future: What does this disastrous season do to recruiting next year? This team needs a heck of a lot more than Hurt.

The answer to that depends on what specialty you want.

If you want to be a trauma surgeon, HCMC would be the place to be.

 

[mcal24]

I think that you make a number of good points but we disagree about free throws to a certain extent. Both the players and the coaches bear responsibility for that end of game stat. (Yes, I know the coaches aren't shooting.) Thirty six percent at the end of games is about lack of confidence and Pitino can help with that.

As I've said, Pitino will learn a lot from this year and he will become a better coach, a really good major program coach, in fact. I don't think he's there yet.

I don't really blame the coach at all for free throw shooting. Outside of practice, there is absolutely nothing a coach can do besides tell them to make free throws. It comes down to players with no confidence in their shot and possibly nerves getting to them. I would guess GopherHole could collectively shoot at least 60% from the free throw line. Players just aren't executing.

 

[gandharva]

I question how valuable it is to compare coaches in general. The hard numbers of wins and losses, especially under one and done scenarios, do have value, but I think there are other values that are more important. Things such as luck in recruiting players who are good for the system, regardless of "stars", success in player development, in game adjustments, clock and rotation management, are subjective and not so clearly analyzed. I think the most important factor for a successful coach is establishing a coherent team culture where the player's personalities and character mesh well inside a system, concept, and coach they believe in. Being able to recruit highly rated players is definitely a plus and having talent throughout a roster is obviously a large factor in success. But as we have seen time and time again such factors as having a solid group of seniors who know each other and the system and play well together have led to some success for mid major teams whose coaches most often have tweener talent but excel in the intangible qualities I mentioned. Sure the Big schools with the big coaches and the big talent usually win out but a well coached veteran team can make enough noise to raise some eyebrows and start getting better players as a result. Minnesota plays in a power conference and decently talented players will want to come here simply because they want to play at the highest level, to have national exposure with media and pro scouts. There will always be some who will play here regardless of our recent history of wins and losses. If we look back 10 to 15 years we see that we have recruited plenty of 4 star and several 5 star players. 5 star guys are always one and done possibilities and unless your name is Calipari and can recruit such players yearly I'm not sure 5 star players really help your program long term. Did Joel Pryzbilla, Rick Richert and Kris Humphries really help this program grow all that much. One factor I haven't heard discussed much is keeping players in the system. This is partly a function of recruiting the wrong players but there are also factors a coach can't control. A kid who thinks he wants to go far away from home realizes he made a mistake and wants to go back. A kid whose ego is bigger than his ability who wants immediate playing time and is not willing to develop into a RS JR or Sr contributor. A kid Fraks up and does something stupid. I think a hugely underrated circumstance was this year's Mc Neil screw up. He was our best on ball perimeter defender and we all know that good back court scorers have been eating us up. And Martin was supposed to supply some muscle, defense and rebounding in an already thin front line. These were not starters but were being looked upon as significant contributors. And yes, Mathieu and Eliason have either regressed or got into Pitino's doghouse. Austin Hollins carried us with leadership and performance, both on O and D, especially in the NIT. He is missed more than anybody imagined. I always feel a coach should be given at least 5 or 6 years to get a team that is made up completely of his recruits with his system and culture established. Its fine to criticize and I too am disappointed in this year's team overall. Plenty of that is on the coach. But I was willing to even give Brewster 5 years, which shows how much Kool Aid and hot chili I consumed. So what do I know? But I do think my points are valid.

 

[cjbfbp]

Not to turn this into a Rodney debate. But watch Buggs play compared to what Rodney did. People say both are just athletes with no skill, yet Rodney played, started, put up great Gopher numbers, had NBA draft talk, and now plays basketball professionally. Rodney was skilled. Just not to the point many expected him to be.

I think you make a reasonably accurate assessment of Rodney (although I wouldn't call his numbers "great") and I was probably a bit harsh in my previous post, but his athleticism was always what kept the pro scouts looking at him. It's telling that in his first two years he was listed as a first round draft choice in some mock drafts but wasn't drafted at all by the end of his senior year. He did have one truly shining moment (the 2012 postseason run) and that's probably more than Buggs will ever have. He also did have a pretty good junior year overall.

 

[ethomasp31]

I certainly hope not (I'm assuming you're talking about Rodney Williams). One of those players was a perennial head case who played one fine season of college basketball (not for Minnesota) in his third year out of high school and then proceeded to wash out of the pros (because he held out and refused to fly for his first team and because he failed to get in the required shape for his second). He managed to play a grand total of 3 minutes in the NBA for his third team. The other player could run and jump like a deer but never became a very good basketball player. The U of M would have been better off if Tubby had passed on White and might have done better elsewhere if he passed on Williams.

To be sure, Coffey is highly rated but there are issues with him. His father seems to want him to play a point forward and, given what Pitino has already recruited, the last thing he probably needs is another guy who has to have the ball in his hands. Looking ahead, I don't see the guy filling a critical team need.

As far as getting excited about recruiting local players vs. players from elsewhere, my question is why? If they recruit a guy from Turkey and he demonstrates that he can play after he arrives here, then I'll be very excited about him.

Your best chance to get a top recruit is if he is from Minnesota. Especially when his dad played for the Gophers. Why would a guy who is a top recruit come to Minnesota to play basketball if he is not from Minnesota? The weather? The facilities? The winning tradition? I'm not trying to rip Minnesota....I've lived here my whole life....I'm just trying to be realistic.

I've never said I want Tubby back.....I've never said we should fire Pitino. I'm a little disappointed in our roster makeup, and very disappointed in our record this year and the prospects for next year. The class we having coming in is fine.....not a bad class....but not a class that is a program changer in my opinion.

When I said that Coffey is Pitino's Williams and White, I was giving an analogy talking about the kind of recruit Pitino needs to turn this program around. My goals would be not to be competing for the 7th through 10th spots of the B1G every year.

 

[station19]

par·a·graph noun \ˈper-ə-ˌgraf, ˈpa-rə-\
: a part of a piece of writing that usually deals with one subject, that begins on a new line, and that is made up of one or more sentences

It helps

 

[GophersInIowa]

I think that is a perspective a lot of people have lost already. This program was very respectable under Tubby, they just never got over the hump. He was haunted by some hard-luck injuries in years that they had a real chance at a deep post-season run. People act as if Tubby was awful and destroyed the program, and Pitino is the annointed can-do-no-wrong savior, simply because his last name is Pitino. If his last name was.... say, Monson.....he would have been run out of the gym with pitchforks and torches already. That absolutely cannot be denied. I don't care how much Pitino kool-aid you are drinking (Keep in mind, this is coming from a guy who was a huge fan of the coaching change when it happened, and I still am today, I'm just starting to get slightly alarmed).

Something that is being understated is the effect that this awful season will have on the potential "future success" of the program. Future success is something that Pitino-heads think is all but guaranteed by his last name. I do not believe that....at all. Recruits will "cool" on his last name very quickly if the team sucks. He would have a much easier time getting elite talent if they were a tournament team (even a bubble team) this year. As we know, they actually aren't that far off. They could easily be 5-3 in the B1G with the exact same team. But, again, it isn't horseshoes, and Pitino isn't throwing hand grenades. Getting "close" does nothing for anyone.

What does this bad season do for Coffey's decision on MN vs. IA St, seeing the Gophers at the rock bottom of the B1G and Iowa St. knocking off teams like Kansas on national TV (something a bottom dwelling B1G team doesn't really get the opportunity to do). If you were studying to be a doctor, would you rather do residency at the Mayo Clinic, or the Hennepin County Medical Center, if givin the choice? I think this question will end up being the pivot point of Pitino's future: What does this disastrous season do to recruiting next year? This team needs a heck of a lot more than Hurt.

You really like to make generalizations like this that I think are way off base. Who here says he can do no wrong? Just because some people don't think everything is his fault doesn't mean they think he's doing an awesome job either.

 

[Deleted_User]

I hope our AD is already shopping around for a better coach with a better track record. This year is a train wreck.

 

[bleedsmaroonandgold]

I hope our AD is already shopping around for a better coach with a better track record. This year is a train wreck.

This year is a train wreck so far. That upsets me with Pitino. Part of being a good coach is to find a way to square peg the round holes when you don't have the personnel you want, and find a way to succeed while going to war with the army you've got. Pitino seems to be failing pretty miserably at that task this year. Having said that, it is still premature to start shopping for another couch before we have even seen one game with a player he recruited as a freshman playing as an upperclassman in his system.

Also, its not too late for a miracle turn around. The B1G is weak this year, and as bad as we crapped the bed, if this team wakes up and starts playing with some more heart, there is still no one I don't think we could beat.

 

[minny01]

You really like to make generalizations like this that I think are way off base. Who here says he can do no wrong? Just because some people don't think everything is his fault doesn't mean they think he's doing an awesome job either.

I agree with this statement. For the most part, Tubby did not do that bad of a job, but the problem that I had with him was that his teams always had extreme trouble inbounding the ball and also had no flow on offense and would end up hoisting a shot at the end of the shot clock. On top of that, his recruiting was starting to suffer. With Richard, we haven't had those problems very often this year. I can't recall a time where we have had to launch one up at the end of a shot clock. They are organized, get the shots they want when they don't make the careless turnover, and look like a team that is well coached. The problems that we are experiencing you'd expect to have on a underclassmen team, not a team comprised of seniors.

 

[station19]

I hope our AD is already shopping around for a better coach with a better track record. This year is a train wreck.

You're not really serious are you?

 

[cjbfbp]

I agree with this statement. For the most part, Tubby did not do that bad of a job, but the problem that I had with him was that his teams always had extreme trouble inbounding the ball and also had no flow on offense and would end up hoisting a shot at the end of the shot clock. On top of that, his recruiting was starting to suffer. With Richard, we haven't had those problems very often this year. I can't recall a time where we have had to launch one up at the end of a shot clock. They are organized, get the shots they want when they don't make the careless turnover, and look like a team that is well coached. The problems that we are experiencing you'd expect to have on a underclassmen team, not a team comprised of seniors.

I think the difference between the Tubby and Pitino teams with respect to the ability to get decent shots within the time limit has more to do with personnel than organization. Andre was Tubby's primary ball handler and he didn't have the same ability to penetrate the defense then as Mathieu or even Mason and Morris do now. Penetration draws the defensive attention and usually leaves someone open somewhere.

 

[Winasota Gopher]

"Failing miserably"
"train wreak"
"Disaster"

Exaggerating much? Some of you are drama queens.

 

[GophersInIowa]

I hope our AD is already shopping around for a better coach with a better track record. This year is a train wreck.

Yes, getting ready to get rid of a coach after 1 1/2 years is going to help our program.

 

[bleedsmaroonandgold]

"Failing miserably"
"train wreak"
"Disaster"

Exaggerating much? Some of you are drama queens.

We are 12th in the B1G. I don't think those adjectives are particularly harsh to describe this year's performance..