Badgers Offer Keelon Brookins

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Prado89 said:
So, you're basically saying Bielema got mad because Urban, a coach talked to a recruit, a Wisconsin commit during the dead period. Coach A got mad because Coach B talk to a recruit during the dead period. What a caring Coach! Is he going to make complaints about other coaches who're doing the same. Bielema complained not because of poaching the Wisconsin recruit but because of the observance of the rule. Gotta respect St. Bielema . I'm about to fall off from my chair because I'm laughing so hard. bwa hahahahaha
The truth of the matter is Bielema got mad because Urban was a better recruiter at that time. If you’re trying to convince people that it is all about rule compliance, you need to check your mindset on rationality.
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Bret Bielema got mad because he felt that OSU gained an advantage by breaking NCAA rules. Make no mistake, this has nothing to do with BB being a saint. He just felt like he lost out on a recruit because he played by the rules while his competition did not.

And no one is denying that Urban is a better recruiter than BB. Urban is one of the best in the business, no question about it, and BB, while a good recruiter, is nowhere near Urban Meyer's level.
 

Badger2010 said:
No one is splitting hairs. To say he got mad because Urban recruited one of our commits is false.

He got mad because Urban talked to a recruit during the dead period, which is an NCAA violation.

Coaches/teams continue to recruit our commits all the time, and BB does not care...he does the same thing and it's part of the game.

By the way, that article strengthens my argument, not yours...
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I have no idea what went down with BB crying about Urban Meyer, but if that is the real story, that's the most bizarre use of the phrase "gentleman's agreement" I've ever heard. That's an actual rule violation. Who used that phrase when describing Meyer's tactics, BB or Meyer?
 

ruppertflywheel said:
If mom and pop have preached core values to Brookins he will remain a Gopher. If not, he's just another kid who throws the "commitment" word out there like crap through a goose. Either way, the sun will set tonight and rise tomorrow in Gopherland. Bottom line. don't let the musings of an 18 year old kid who has not played one down of B1G football get your shorts in a bundle.
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I don't think that's fair to a kid being recruited. The coaches (including Kill) change their minds all the time during the process.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I don't think that's fair to a kid being recruited. The coaches (including Kill) change their minds all the time during the process.
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Link?
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I have no idea what went down with BB crying about Urban Meyer, but if that is the real story, that's the most bizarre use of the phrase "gentleman's agreement" I've ever heard. That's an actual rule violation. Who used that phrase when describing Meyer's tactics, BB or Meyer?
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The "gentlemen's agreement" being referenced is an old mutual understanding amongst Big coaches, that other Big Ten coaches shouldn't continue to recruit commits to other Big Ten schools. This agreement is no longer applicable in today's college football world, and virtually no coach operates under this code or expects this courtesy from other coaches.

Initially the media, because a lot of them are lazy and do not take the time to actually check facts, thought and reported that BB was upset with Urban for recruiting a UW commit, thereby breaking the "gentlemen's agreement."

The reality is that BB was in no way upset about Urban breaking the gentlemen's agreement, he was upset about Urban allegedly breaking NCAA rules while recruiting Kyle Dodson, a UW commit at the time. Most people don't bother differentiating between the two situations, because it would reduce their ability to ridicule BB, which is stupid because there are plenty of more legitimate ways to do so.
 


FreakyDeke said:
Link?
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Dominic Twitty had a Gopher accepted and eventually went to New Mexico (no longer had a Gopher offer).
Josh Balesteros had a Gopher offer, he accepted that offer and longer had that offer come signing day (he signed with Florida Atlantic)

- You can google their rivals pages, they both don't have Gopher offers listed anymore. It's also just common sense, people don't choose to go to Florida Atlantic or New Mexico if they have a Big 10 offer. So the offers were pulled.
 

Badger2010 said:
The "gentlemen's agreement" being referenced is an old mutual understanding amongst Big coaches, that other Big Ten coaches shouldn't continue to recruit commits to other Big Ten schools. This agreement is no longer applicable in today's college football world, and virtually no coach operates under this code or expects this courtesy from other coaches.

Initially the media, because a lot of them are lazy and do not take the time to actually check facts, thought and reported that BB was upset with Urban for recruiting a UW commit, thereby breaking the "gentlemen's agreement."

The reality is that BB was in no way upset about Urban breaking the gentlemen's agreement, he was upset about Urban allegedly breaking NCAA rules while recruiting Kyle Dodson, a UW commit at the time. Most people don't bother differentiating between the two situations, because it would reduce their ability to ridicule BB, which is stupid because there are plenty of more legitimate ways to do so.
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Urban sure seems to think it was the "gentleman's agreement" that BB was talking about, but maybe he was just deflecting. Either way, crying to the media is going to get BB everything that he got and that is to be misunderstood.
 


Bob_Loblaw said:
Urban sure seems to think it was the "gentleman's agreement" that BB was talking about, but maybe he was just deflecting. Either way, crying to the media is going to get BB everything that he got and that is to be misunderstood.
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I think he's only saying that because admitting to BB's accusations would be admitting to recruiting violations.

One this is for sure though, BB does not operate under this "gentlemen's agreement" and he doesn't expect any coach do so either. He never complained about Urban trying to flip Walker Williams or Pitt flipping Scott Orndoff or Rutgers flipping JJ Denman. I realize both Pitt and Rutgers are outside of the Big Ten, they were just very recent recruits that came to mind.

He also certainly didn't stop recruiting Melvin Gordon after he committed to Iowa, and now he's after Keelon Brookings and Kenton Gibbs (Illinois commit).

The "gentlemen's agreement" is in no way a code that BB operates under in any capacity.
 




"gentleman's agreement" have no place in athletics. If you can score 80 score 80.
 


ruppertflywheel said:
If mom and pop have preached core values to Brookins he will remain a Gopher. If not, he's just another kid who throws the "commitment" word out there like crap through a goose. Either way, the sun will set tonight and rise tomorrow in Gopherland. Bottom line. don't let the musings of an 18 year old kid who has not played one down of B1G football get your shorts in a bundle.
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So now if a kid reneges on their commitment to said school the parents have failed to teach them core values. Hilarious.
 



Bob_Loblaw said:
Dominic Twitty had a Gopher accepted and eventually went to New Mexico (no longer had a Gopher offer).
Josh Balesteros had a Gopher offer, he accepted that offer and longer had that offer come signing day (he signed with Florida Atlantic)

- You can google their rivals pages, they both don't have Gopher offers listed anymore. It's also just common sense, people don't choose to go to Florida Atlantic or New Mexico if they have a Big 10 offer. So the offers were pulled.
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Bob - I read where that some players offers were pulled because they did not complete their part of the bargin when it came to their grades.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Dominic Twitty had a Gopher accepted and eventually went to New Mexico (no longer had a Gopher offer).
Josh Balesteros had a Gopher offer, he accepted that offer and longer had that offer come signing day (he signed with Florida Atlantic)

- You can google their rivals pages, they both don't have Gopher offers listed anymore. It's also just common sense, people don't choose to go to Florida Atlantic or New Mexico if they have a Big 10 offer. So the offers were pulled.
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And you know for sure that Kill did not offer those guys conditionally? Or what the conditions were (academics, maybe)? I don't, but if all you are doing is basing your knowledge off of check marks on a Rivals page then I'm inclined to believe that Kill was honest with them about the situation and not just pulling offers.
 

FreakyDeke said:
And you know for sure that Kill did not offer those guys conditionally? Or what the conditions were (academics, maybe)? I don't, but if all you are doing is basing your knowledge off of check marks on a Rivals page then I'm inclined to believe that Kill was honest with them about the situation and not just pulling offers.
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Thanks FreakyDeke - That's my understanding also. The pulling of three of the Miami four offers is a prime example of what you are talking about. I am also inclined to believe that Kill was honest with them about the situation and not just pulling offers.
 

FreakyDeke said:
And you know for sure that Kill did not offer those guys conditionally? Or what the conditions were (academics, maybe)? I don't, but if all you are doing is basing your knowledge off of check marks on a Rivals page then I'm inclined to believe that Kill was honest with them about the situation and not just pulling offers.
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I'm not basing it off of check marks on a rivals page, I am basing it off of following college football recruiting for years. There always seems to be a group of players who have offers and accept offers throughout the process and then at the last minute, they no longer have an offer and end up at a mid major. There is no way of knowing exactly what the circumstances surrounded those kids departures, but they always end up at mid-majors. I'm talking about kids who are academically eligible to play football in the NCAA, who had Big 10 offers (U) at one point and ended up going to MAC or Sun Belt schools.

As far as knowing the ins and outs of the entire deal that went along with the offer, no one will ever know. No coach would be honest about pulling an offer because a better one came along and they can't even talk about any of these kids until after signing day.

It's simply deductive reasoning and following college football recruiting, it happens and it happens every year.

As far as being up front with the kids, I don't know, he probably is upfront with the kids who get offers.

Keelon Brookins was also honest about his intentions. He told Gopherhole last week in an interview "I'll keep my options open". The U also knew he was attending the Badgers camp.

My entire point is that it's part of the recruiting process. The kids who de-commit aren't villians and coaches who "pull" offers aren't villians. It's really part of the whole process. The verbage of a "commitment" is misleading, especially when the athletes make it obvious that they are "keeping their options open".
 


Killjoy said:
Thanks FreakyDeke - That's my understanding also. The pulling of three of the Miami four offers is a prime example of what you are talking about. I am also inclined to believe that Kill was honest with them about the situation and not just pulling offers.
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The Miami 4 aren't all the same.

Ballesteros is the only one of those 4 kids that is eligible to play football. That example is perfect for guys like Nicholson and Hinds. Neither of those players could pass the NCAA clearinghouse. Josh Ballesteros passed the NCAA clearinghouse academically. He also ended the season as a backup.

While not being one of the Miami 4, Dominic Twitty also passed the NCAA clearinghouse .

I don't know whether or not the U had an academic qualification that is more stringent than the clearinghouse and it's really impossible to know if those kids were in that possible situation. However, it's more than a coincidence that everytime a player has an offer and gets it "pulled", he ends up at a lower division school.
 

scools12 said:
So now if a kid reneges on their commitment to said school the parents have failed to teach them core values. Hilarious.
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Think so. With the magnitude Brookins was spewing how great it was to be a Gopher ( There's no place like home) and if he indeed does a 360, there is a crack in adhering to core values. You my good man might think it is old school, but in fact it has become a eye sore with today's youth. Giving your word has become pass'e.
 

ruppertflywheel said:
Think so. With the magnitude Brookins was spewing how great it was to be a Gopher ( There's no place like home) and if he indeed does a 360, there is a crack in adhering to core values. You my good man might think it is old school, but in fact it has become a eye sore with today's youth. Giving your word has become pass'e.
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A singular instance of "failing to keep your word" doesn't mean you don't have core values. If that were true, then anyone who ever told one lie (pretty much everyone on earth) could also be said to lack core values. It also says absolutely nothing about what his parents did or did not teach him. The logical leap required to make that one stick is astounding.

I've now stepped off your lawn. Feel free to continue to make specious arguments.
 

ruppertflywheel said:
Think so. With the magnitude Brookins was spewing how great it was to be a Gopher ( There's no place like home) and if he indeed does a 360, there is a crack in adhering to core values. You my good man might think it is old school, but in fact it has become a eye sore with today's youth. Giving your word has become pass'e.
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You didn't finish talking about what he said....his exact statement was: "There is no place like home. I'll keep my options open."

That was his answer to when he was asked if he was 100% committed. So even though the premise is absurd, that if a 17-18 year old changes their mind their parents failed to teach them a care value, it's certainly debateable whether he even changed his mind.
 

FreakyDeke said:
I don't, but if all you are doing is basing your knowledge off of check marks on a Rivals page then I'm inclined to believe that Kill was honest with them about the situation and not just pulling offers.
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why?
 

ruppertflywheel said:
Think so. With the magnitude Brookins was spewing how great it was to be a Gopher ( There's no place like home) and if he indeed does a 360, there is a crack in adhering to core values. You my good man might think it is old school, but in fact it has become a eye sore with today's youth. Giving your word has become pass'e.
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Do you feel this way about Keanon Cooper and other current Gopher players who reneged on prior "commitments?"
 

John Galt said:
Do you feel this way about Keanon Cooper and other current Gopher players who reneged on prior "commitments?"
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JG, you're talking about a very small percentage. There is a difference in a bold face lie and a given word. How many of Coach Kill's class last year changed commitments?
( McDonald left and came back) I believe we had two that switched to Minnesota. My son went to Moorhead State. When he pulled the trigger I sat down with him and made sure there were no other skeletons in the closet that would make him change his mind. So call me old school...
 

bigtenchamps1899 said:
why?
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1. Kill has given me no reason to think he's slimy.
2. Media is very often wrong and Rivals is barely media. Coaches can't talk about recruiting, so Rivals can only get info from what the recruit tells them. Once they get that info, they have to check a box "offer" or not, but maybe the offers weren't black and white, so they said "offer" because it technically is an offer.
3. If Kill was that type, why did he honor the commitments made to Brewster?
4. If he did pull an offer to give to someone else, who was it given to?

Anyway, I was just questioning where the info came from because I think the coaches know what's going on and what a recruit has been told better than a Rivals evaluator. Maybe I'm wrong, but then provide evidence.
 

ruppertflywheel said:
JG, you're talking about a very small percentage. There is a difference in a bold face lie and a given word.
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Except he didn't lie. He stated quite clearly that he would be keeping his options open. Lying would be "I'm 100% committed and won't be looking anywhere else" or something similar. But yes, what a horrible, shifty, no account silver tongue devil this kid is.
 

FreakyDeke said:
1. Kill has given me no reason to think he's slimy.
2. Media is very often wrong and Rivals is barely media. Coaches can't talk about recruiting, so Rivals can only get info from what the recruit tells them. Once they get that info, they have to check a box "offer" or not, but maybe the offers weren't black and white, so they said "offer" because it technically is an offer.
3. If Kill was that type, why did he honor the commitments made to Brewster?
4. If he did pull an offer to give to someone else, who was it given to?

Anyway, I was just questioning where the info came from because I think the coaches know what's going on and what a recruit has been told better than a Rivals evaluator. Maybe I'm wrong, but then provide evidence.
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Virtually all coaches pull offers when necessary, you are just choosing to believe that Jerry Kill is morally superior to the vast majority if not all of the other coaches. You cannot prove he hasn't pulled an offer and the opposite cannot be proven either. So in the end you are left to judge whether Jerry Kill plays by the same rules as the other coaches or is he just that much of a saint. If he strictly takes the first 15 commits out of 100 offers for example, then he will never win. Coaches also make offers all the time but slow play the kids and don't accept the commitment until option A falls through.
 

GopherGod said:
Virtually all coaches pull offers when necessary, you are just choosing to believe that Jerry Kill is morally superior to the vast majority if not all of the other coaches. You cannot prove he hasn't pulled an offer and the opposite cannot be proven either. So in the end you are left to judge whether Jerry Kill plays by the same rules as the other coaches or is he just that much of a saint. If he strictly takes the first 15 commits out of 100 offers for example, then he will never win. Coaches also make offers all the time but slow play the kids and don't accept the commitment until option A falls through.
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I am not sure if there is as much dishonestly going on as you think. The truth is probably closer to the statements I heard from kids that they have been told that if such and such guy doesn't commit then the scholarships is his. The biggest problem in this area is probably with SEC where they do "over book" on a regular basis. That probably because it is extremely difficult to know exactly how many kids will actually sign on National Signing Day. Maybe an early signing date isn't such a bad idea.
 

FreakyDeke said:
1. Kill has given me no reason to think he's slimy.
2. Media is very often wrong and Rivals is barely media. Coaches can't talk about recruiting, so Rivals can only get info from what the recruit tells them. Once they get that info, they have to check a box "offer" or not, but maybe the offers weren't black and white, so they said "offer" because it technically is an offer.
3. If Kill was that type, why did he honor the commitments made to Brewster?
4. If he did pull an offer to give to someone else, who was it given to?

Anyway, I was just questioning where the info came from because I think the coaches know what's going on and what a recruit has been told better than a Rivals evaluator. Maybe I'm wrong, but then provide evidence.
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#2: It's not just Rivals. It's rivals, scout, ESPN, gopherhole, the kids themself with interviews through Gopherhole, FBT. . .every possible outlet that talks Gopher football knew those kids had offers at one point. It wasn't rivals rumors. . .

#3: He didn't honor all of Brew's commitments and he also didn't have enough time to put together a full class.

Sam Rohr, unless you think Sam Rohr really wanted to go to UNI instead of the U.

#4: You just have to look at when the kids accepted the offers. Timms was a late signing and plays the same position as Twitty, it could be him. Duke or Ben Lauer got late scholarships. As far as Sam Rohr, it's pretty obvious that was Drew Goodger, a TE that was signed and then miraculously Sam Rohr another TE ended up at Northern Iowa.
 

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