All Things Gopher Players Appeals Process

[Some Day...Maybe]

Got it. It's one of those Matrix things where they hired MC to prepare for this incident that they knew was going to happen on his watch in the future. This explains why he's been non-existent to lead during this mess that spiraled out of control while he was at the helm. He's actually traveled back in time to try and undo this whole mess. And we'll all wake up one day and it will have never happened. Boy am I gonna sleep soundly tonight.

I think he has lead pretty damn well in relation to firing Claeys and hiring PJ Fleck. I haven't seen leadership like that in Gopher athletics in a long time. Personally, I love it.


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[brianbmoser]

I think he has lead pretty damn well in relation to firing Claeys and hiring PJ Fleck. I haven't seen leadership like that in Gopher athletics in a long time. Personally, I love it.


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Leadership is not doing necessarily doing what people want but what is best in the long run for the University and its students. This is not easy because those who need to change dont necessarily want to

Would somebody please make me a list of the things that Coyle did that he should be fired for. Not things that piss you off but actual dereliction of his position that are firing events. And not just B S hearsay because there sre atleast 2-3 versions of almost every thing that happened. We have no way of knowing exactly what happened only tiny snippets in a highly publicized highly emotional event. With at least 2 dozen people trying to protect their asses on all sides. This is primarily an opinion board and the accuracy of information here can be in question quite often. If you want to see change get actively involved in athletics at U of M and promote changes that match what is right. Anybody can bit** but real positive change takes nasty hard work and people willing to do it.


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[Johnnyboy18]

Who would be the one to suspend a player for a violation of team rules?


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Definitely not the head coach because he doesn't create those.

 

[Tucker32]

Haven't changed my story one bit.

I get that there are a few of us that are pretty vocal and that bugs you. At this point we're talking past each other.

The key difference is that there are some people who believe that there is accountability for an atheletic director to be in charge. Not running things day-to-day, but in charge. And here's where I see the difference, there are some people on the board who believe in accountability for your actions or inactions.

As my signature indicates, if we want to change the culture, accountability needs to be brought into the situation. Claeys has been held accountable. Kaler and Coyle so far haven't. Kaler is up for a renewal in his contract in May. It is unlikely he survives this. He will be held accountable because of his actions, his inactions, and the damage he caused the University's reputation.

There is an amount of accountability that rests on Mark Coyle's shoulders as well. You're the only one who sees him as completely innocent. We can agree to disagree if he should be fired, but to deny there is any level of accountability for the fiasco this developed into is simply ignorant.

Someday you'll figure out accountability. And someday you may even experience that sometimes your held accountable for the things you didn't do when it is your responsibility. If the coach had been someone with Nick Saban's internal political clout, I might see the AD was hamstrung, but Claeys is the antithesis of the power college coach.




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I agree with most of your posts and much of what you say. However, Kaler isn't going anywhere. He has the support of the Regents, despite the football situation. His job is much bigger than athletics.


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[GopherBulldog]

Leadership is not doing necessarily doing what people want but what is best in the long run for the University and its students. This is not easy because those who need to change dont necessarily want to



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There are probably a dozen threads over the past four months that go into this in great detail. There are those that believe that Coyle has no culpability with how this situation has turned into a national PR cluster for the University. Though I believe they are in the minority. Do a little research and formulate your own opinion.

 

[GopherBulldog]

I think he has lead pretty damn well in relation to firing Claeys and hiring PJ Fleck. I haven't seen leadership like that in Gopher athletics in a long time. Personally, I love it.


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Great. Don't confuse people being critical of Coyle with them also being upset with the hiring of PJF. Totally different issues.

 

[Tucker32]

I think he has lead pretty damn well in relation to firing Claeys and hiring PJ Fleck. I haven't seen leadership like that in Gopher athletics in a long time. Personally, I love it.


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The end doesn't always justify the means. There was no need for Coyle to disparage the previous staff, and the many positive things they did, when he made a change. Your disdain for Claeys, and enthusiasm for Fleck, was obvious for quite some time, and obviously you don't care how leadership treats people along the way.

There are many people, boosters, regents, and athletic department staff, very disappointed with how Coyle has managed this situation. The result is he needs to earn a lot of trust from people. You can ignore my post, but there are enough people on here who know from past posts that I do have some understanding of the department.


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[The Rev]

I think he has lead pretty damn well in relation to firing Claeys and hiring PJ Fleck. I haven't seen leadership like that in Gopher athletics in a long time. Personally, I love it.


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If cowering under a desk while news of the 10 broke, being so utterly uncommunicative about an apparent case of gross injustice that he all but forced the team to declare a boycott, making his primary goal in this covering his butt at the expense of the university, misleading his coach as to his status, and then needlessly publicly trashing a previous coaching regime that gave their heart and soul to resurrecting a football team and established a solid "brick by brick" culture is good leadership, then let's write a chapter for this Mr. Coyle in Profiles in Courage.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

I'm not a Coyle fan. But, I assume the guy has some positive qualities, because he keeps getting hired for jobs. I can only go on what I'very witnessed here in MN. The Wrestling situation was a mess Coyle inherited, and I suspect he did the only thing he could. J cooked his own goose on that deal.

But, on the FB situation, it has been one mess after another.
1. Coyle claims Claeys took the lead on suspending players. Misleading.
2. Coyle meets with players - won't answer questions. G. Elmore says Coyle'S handling of meeting was a major factor in the decision to boycott.
3. Coyle was largely absent during crisis. AD should be out front -not hiding.
4. At Press conference firing Claeys, Coyle took unnecessary shots at FB program.

 

[scools12]

I'm not a Coyle fan. But, I assume the guy has some positive qualities, because he keeps getting hired for jobs. I can only go on what I'very witnessed here in MN. The Wrestling situation was a mess Coyle inherited, and I suspect he did the only thing he could. J cooked his own goose on that deal.

But, on the FB situation, it has been one mess after another.
1. Coyle claims Claeys took the lead on suspending players. Misleading.
2. Coyle meets with players - won't answer questions. G. Elmore says Coyle'S handling of meeting was a major factor in the decision to boycott.
3. Coyle was largely absent during crisis. AD should be out front -not hiding.
4. At Press conference firing Claeys, Coyle took unnecessary shots at FB program.

#2 - I would take anything Elmore said with a grain of salt. It's not like the players didn't have their own agenda

#3 - just because Coyle wasn't in the media everyday doesn't mean he was hiding. You have no idea what he was doing behind the scenes.



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[BarnBurner]

Personally I prefer Head Coaches that don't have the balls to express their opinions to their bosses and then express it in a tweet. That's leadership isn't it?


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You know for a fact Claeys didn't express his opinions to Coyle? Show your proof.

 

[BarnBurner]

The end doesn't always justify the means. There was no need for Coyle to disparage the previous staff, and the many positive things they did, when he made a change. Your disdain for Claeys, and enthusiasm for Fleck, was obvious for quite some time, and obviously you don't care how leadership treats people along the way.

There are many people, boosters, regents, and athletic department staff, very disappointed with how Coyle has managed this situation. The result is he needs to earn a lot of trust from people. You can ignore my post, but there are enough people on here who know from past posts that I do have some understanding of the department.


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Well said.

 

[BarnBurner]

If cowering under a desk while news of the 10 broke, being so utterly uncommunicative about an apparent case of gross injustice that he all but forced the team to declare a boycott, making his primary goal in this covering his butt at the expense of the university, misleading his coach as to his status, and then needlessly publicly trashing a previous coaching regime that gave their heart and soul to resurrecting a football team and established a solid "brick by brick" culture is good leadership, then let's write a chapter for this Mr. Coyle in Profiles in Courage.

Some day and weather guy dont give a rip about true leadership. And couldn't understand it if it him them in the face.

 

[brianbmoser]

There are probably a dozen threads over the past four months that go into this in great detail. There are those that believe that Coyle has no culpability with how this situation has turned into a national PR cluster for the University. Though I believe they are in the minority. Do a little research and formulate your own opinion.

If you look at those threads when presenting the supposed facts of the events that were happening. The posters generally agreed with the truth of the "facts" that supported their point of view and challenged those against. Very few said they directly were witness to the "evidence" that was being presented and it would take days to screw down to what the truth is. In situations like this people on both sides are villified and accused and only a very few know large portions of what actually hsppened. Most of the posts did not care about the actual welfare of the student and players involved but were upset because U of M football could be hurt. Most were decrying the process before it even began to play out. Jumping to conclusions before anything happened. The boycott players themselves said that they had not understood until they saw the EOAA report what was actually going on. Just because a reporter says something or a person this or that department is quoted does not mean it is true. We will never know very many facts of this mess only a long list of peoples points of view


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[Spoofin]

Some day and weather guy dont give a rip about true leadership. And couldn't understand it if it him them in the face.

I don't care for 99% of GWG's posts, but lumping anyone in with some day is over the line. I wouldn't do that to my biggest enemy.


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[Bob_Loblaw]

#2 - I would take anything Elmore said with a grain of salt. It's not like the players didn't have their own agenda

#3 - just because Coyle wasn't in the media everyday doesn't mean he was hiding. You have no idea what he was doing behind the scenes.



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What would be the player's motivation for lying about Coyle? They were saying the exact same thing during the entire process.

If Coyle was open and honest with the players, what would their motiviation have been (the entire time) to lie about how that went down. It wasn't like they weren't upset with Coyle before, during and after the meeting.

 

[brianbmoser]

What would be the player's motivation for lying about Coyle? They were saying the exact same thing during the entire process.

If Coyle was open and honest with the players, what would their motiviation have been (the entire time) to lie about how that went down. It wasn't like they weren't upset with Coyle before, during and after the meeting.

What would their motivation be. Anger over the suspensions. Why would they be mad at the administrstion because they felt their football team was being ripped apart unfairly. Who would they blame coach Claeys, no the administration and the face of the administration is Coyle. Finally they were trying to find answers and listening to people who did not have them. As evidenced in their reaction to the EOAA report. Most of these players are very close
And care about their team and Gopher football this whole thing is a mess the mess was not started by Coyle or Kaler but the people involved in the scandal.Nobody is prepared to handle something of this magnitude. Nobody wants it to happen. There is no book written on how to work through it. Things happened on all fronts that can be challenged. Who will be the leaders that stand up now to take us in the right direction?

I agree with most of your posts and much of what you say. However, Kaler isn't going anywhere. He has the support of the Regents, despite the football situation. His job is much bigger than athletics.


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I'm not a Coyle fan. But, I assume the guy has some positive qualities, because he keeps getting hired for jobs. I can only go on what I'very witnessed here in MN. The Wrestling situation was a mess Coyle inherited, and I suspect he did the only thing he could. J cooked his own goose on that deal.

But, on the FB situation, it has been one mess after another.
1. Coyle claims Claeys took the lead on suspending players. Misleading.
2. Coyle meets with players - won't answer questions. G. Elmore says Coyle'S handling of meeting was a major factor in the decision to boycott.
3. Coyle was largely absent during crisis. AD should be out front -not hiding.
4. At Press conference firing Claeys, Coyle took unnecessary shots at FB program.

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[GopherBulldog]

If you look at those threads when presenting the supposed facts of the events that were happening. The posters generally agreed with the truth of the "facts" that supported their point of view and challenged those against. Very few said they directly were witness to the "evidence" that was being presented and it would take days to screw down to what the truth is. In situations like this people on both sides are villified and accused and only a very few know large portions of what actually hsppened. Most of the posts did not care about the actual welfare of the student and players involved but were upset because U of M football could be hurt. Most were decrying the process before it even began to play out. Jumping to conclusions before anything happened. The boycott players themselves said that they had not understood until they saw the EOAA report what was actually going on. Just because a reporter says something or a person this or that department is quoted does not mean it is true. We will never know very many facts of this mess only a long list of peoples points of view


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Your post is a little rambling so it's difficult for me to understand your point. But with this situation, like any situation in which one is not directly involved, people evaluated the information that was available. Formulated opinions. And expressed them on this message board. If you have a position and want to express it, go for it.

 

[brianbmoser]

Your post is a little rambling so it's difficult for me to understand your point. But with this situation, like any situation in which one is not directly involved, people evaluated the information that was available. Formulated opinions. And expressed them on this message board. If you have a position and want to express it, go for it.

Sorry rambling is a problem i have
Thanks for the reply. What I really want to say is I love gopher sports there is little we can do at this point because we will never fully understand what happened. It sucks.
[emoji41] Lets talk about where we go from here to build up the program we care about The discussion here is worse than the negative reporting we often get in the local press. Just a thought.

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[caliGopher]

But what about due process?


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A suspension is not the same thing as conviction in the press before the process had played out. Just saying.


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[Bob_Loblaw]

Sorry rambling is a problem i have
Thanks for the reply. What I really want to say is I love gopher sports there is little we can do at this point because we will never fully understand what happened. It sucks.
[emoji41] Lets talk about where we go from here to build up the program we care about The discussion here is worse than the negative reporting we often get in the local press. Just a thought.

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You are in a thread about the appeals process.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

If you suspend a player for violation of team rules, I don't know that due process is an issue.

Yes, due process is still an issue. We are a public university and they were receiving a benefit from that public university (scholarship). A team rule cannot violate the Constitution.

Most suspensions simply would never be on the radar.

 

[caliGopher]

Sorry rambling is a problem i have
Thanks for the reply. What I really want to say is I love gopher sports there is little we can do at this point because we will never fully understand what happened. It sucks.
[emoji41] Lets talk about where we go from here to build up the program we care about The discussion here is worse than the negative reporting we often get in the local press. Just a thought.

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A good thought until you realize nothing changed. Our long term success will be in jeopardy as long as "men" like Mark Coyle and Eric Kaler are in charge. This thread is about trying to build the program up on a foundation slightly more stable than quicksand. Coyle wants to change the culture, and its the only thing I agree with him on at this point. The Fleck hire was a good start. Cleaning house in the administration is the next step. You can't change the culture when the people in charge act the way Kaler and Coyle do.


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[brianbmoser]

You are in a thread about the appeals process.

You have well put together thoughts
I would enjoy a short version of where you think Coyle comes out on all this as far as his future is concerned

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[BroncoRedux]

Coyle's future is tied to the success of PJ Fleck. If the program beats Iowa and Wisconsin and wins the Big Ten west Coyle's legacy is preserved. Just win baby. Seriously.

 

[WoodburyTim]

It's obvious you guys will never figure it out. Maybe down the road when Coyle is still here and Claeys is not a head coach, you'll finally connect the dots.

It is always funny how often stupid people tell others they don't get it.

 

[60's Guy]

Except

Coyle's future is tied to the success of PJ Fleck. If the program beats Iowa and Wisconsin and wins the Big Ten west Coyle's legacy is preserved. Just win baby. Seriously.

Imo if Coyle is going to get fired it'll be before we play Iowa and Wisconsin. Otherwise, it'll require another scandal he didn't necessarily create but poorly handled the management of. I really don't think winning has too much to do with whether the Athletic Director at the University of Minnesota keeps his job. Look at history.
This isn't a professional sports franchise with an impetuous owner. Actually, fairly hard to lose your job as A.D. , I think, especially here. But, Leadership so poor that people write about it, passionately discuss it and actually force or require administrators to sit down to seriously talk about it, in anything other than a rubber stamp endorsement, is pretty uncommonly poor and unusual.

 

[60's Guy]

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2016/08/01/federal-appeals-court-revives-title-ix-suit-male-student-challenging-sex-assault

Interesting background information on the overall landscape of the accused males bringing their case to federal court. A Law professor in comments provided enlightening perspectives, as well as others. Bottom line for me: the system is very flawed...some premises in the piece: universities would rather pay damages in the hundreds of thousands, than risk multi millions of dollars in federal aid for not complying with Title 9 biased protection. It wouldn't appear this will go away any time soon as it is a very lucrative field for attorneys in damages. Universities are not as much concerned about protecting victims as they are concerned with not jeopardizing their Title 9 federal money for violations of protections of females.
I didn't write it, I'm not an attorney, I'm just curious looking for answers how and why this entire process has been so convoluted. Maybe someone else has the same questions in their mind and this offers them some background to reach some understanding? Some quotes that seem to be pertinent: Nothing is ever as simple as it seems or yet someone else's quote: There is a big difference between what you know and what you think you know, learn the facts before jumping to conclusions. And the most on target conclusion in this entire saga for me: Follow the money!

 

[Deleted_User]

Two different types of due process out there. In plain English it is either the preponderance of the evidence or overwhelming evidence. In the hearings, evidence only needs to meet the minimum standard. Not even one time did the President of the U or the AD ever use words that conveyed that they believe it was rape. Not once. And, I dare anyone to provide the quotes that support that they did.

 

[bizzle22]

Yes, due process is still an issue. We are a public university and they were receiving a benefit from that public university (scholarship). A team rule cannot violate the Constitution.

Most suspensions simply would never be on the radar.

I don't see how the basketball team has a Twitter ban if a team rule can't violate the constitution. Obviously not every team in the NCAA has a Twitter ban, but it's not all that uncommon. And I guess the logic of the scholarship doesn't make sense either. What about walk-ons? Are Blake Cashman and Brady Rudrud under a different set of rules because they don't have scholarships?