All Things Dawson Garcia Recruitment Thread (Class of 2020): UPDATED: Gophers Offered

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MennoSota said:
Will individual players get to advertise sponsors on their jerseys? Otherwise, what value does the endorsing company get from a college student?
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As I understand it, NIL is for Name, Image, Likeness. So that is what a player can market. Theoretically, Dawson Garcia could make a deal to have "official" Dawson Garcia jerseys, posters, bobbleheads, etc. Or he could do endorsements - "This is Dawson Garcia for Mauer Chevrolet...."

But - I think the key is this - the schools are (in theory) not part of this. It's up to each player to market himself or herself.

So, to answer your question - the endorsing company's value is tied to the image and name recognition of the athlete. meaning that star players will get almost all of the opportunities.

in the Twin Cities market, a Chet Holmgren or Jalen Suggs type of player will have opportunities. But some backup SG for the Gophers won't see squat.
 

upnorthkid said:
I get what you're saying for sure and agree that most of the money is probably going to come from a deal to sign all college players for video games. I don't see even it being that widespread for college players and many lottery picks will probably be advised to hold out on many deals unless they can land what the top 5 picks are getting as far as shoe deals, etc. early. this whole thing is going to get really messy and I'd imagine most of the money to many players is going to come from smaller companies looking to get a name out there, rather than the big boys who know they can hold out/be more selective
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upnorthkid said:
on a related note, do we have any idea how many of our local fortune 500 companies even sign athletes? Can't say I've ever seen a Target or 3M ad with an athlete. I don't watch a ton of TV however
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Really great points. Didn't think of it that deeply but most athletes are sponsored by shoe companies, food and beverage companies and to a certain extent specific apparel labels.

Targets, Best Buys, 3M do not normally use athletes.

So thinking of that, small companies like you mentioned would be most likely to throw some cash a local college kids to be in their commericials.

I would think that would bode much better for small market, where there are next to no professional sports teams.

so I can see a place like Madison for example being a good market to gather a few small branding opportunities.

damn it, why cant we have nice things lol

But yes, this will be very messy the first year for sure.
 

(Since this has defacto turned into a NIL discussion)

Hypothetical:

player X says “I’ve created a personal brand logo and am going to order some premium tshirts printed up with it, $35/each, let me know if you want one”.

Rich booster Y replies “I love that logo, and I love tshirts, give me 10 thousand!”


Is this above board? What say you all?
 

upnorthkid said:
I get what you're saying for sure and agree that most of the money is probably going to come from a deal to sign all college players for video games. I don't see even it being that widespread for college players and many lottery picks will probably be advised to hold out on many deals unless they can land what the top 5 picks are getting as far as shoe deals, etc. early. this whole thing is going to get really messy and I'd imagine most of the money to many players is going to come from smaller companies looking to get a name out there, rather than the big boys who know they can hold out/be more selective
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Very good observation. Is there going to be some type of union for these types of transactions? There is no way companies going to negotiate individual deals for all players in a video game, but then it seems like each player may want to negotiate local tv/radio commercials. I wonder how this is all going to work out?
 

MplsGopher said:
(Since this has defacto turned into a NIL discussion)

Hypothetical:

player X says “I’ve created a personal brand logo and am going to order some premium tshirts printed up with it, $35/each, let me know if you want one”.

Rich booster Y replies “I love that logo, and I love tshirts, give me 10 thousand!”


Is this above board? What say you all?
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It's above board and will likely be fine. It is also part of the reason that the NCAA has resisted this so far. There will be some effort to monitor the income for reasonableness. Using your example, if it were 10 t-shirts for $35,000 each, they might balk, but $35 for a t-shirt is within the realm of reasonable so I think it would pass muster.

In the end, it is all too subjective and the NCAA would probably continue to lose in court, so I think it will be largely unregulated, except that the schools will have to monitor it and they will act to protect their own interests--both their trademarks and their own contractual agreements. So Tanner Morgan can do an ad for Cheerios in shorts and a hoodie, but not Pepsi (we are a Coca-Cola school) in a Gopher jersey.
 


MplsGopher said:
(Since this has defacto turned into a NIL discussion)

Hypothetical:

player X says “I’ve created a personal brand logo and am going to order some premium tshirts printed up with it, $35/each, let me know if you want one”.

Rich booster Y replies “I love that logo, and I love tshirts, give me 10 thousand!”


Is this above board? What say you all?
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Can’t see why it won’t be above board. There’s no reason they can’t charge whatever they want either as they can just claim it’s the logo (see price for supreme or affliction shirts compared to hanes). This is absolutely going to lead to the have schools with huge booster networks and people willing to flash cash for wins pulling waaaaaayyyyy ahead in the recruiting race
 

upnorthkid said:
Can’t see why it won’t be above board. There’s no reason they can’t charge whatever they want either as they can just claim it’s the logo (see price for supreme or affliction shirts compared to hanes). This is absolutely going to lead to the have schools with huge booster networks and people willing to flash cash for wins pulling waaaaaayyyyy ahead in the recruiting race
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I assume some schools like will have boosters who "sign" every player for a set amount of say $100K per year to "endorse" their company and then just boost the amount for the stars. If it leads to college super-teams it will ruin the sport.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
As I understand it, NIL is for Name, Image, Likeness. So that is what a player can market. Theoretically, Dawson Garcia could make a deal to have "official" Dawson Garcia jerseys, posters, bobbleheads, etc. Or he could do endorsements - "This is Dawson Garcia for Mauer Chevrolet...."
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A player wouldn't be able to make jerseys, posters or bobbleheads utilizing the University of Minnesota name, block M, Goldy Gopher, etc. unless there is a provision allowing him to use them and compensate the U for that use. He can say "This is Dawson Garcia for Mauer Chevrolet," but not "This is Golden Gopher Dawson Garcia for Mauer Chevrolet."

short ornery norwegian said:
But - I think the key is this - the schools are (in theory) not part of this. It's up to each player to market himself or herself.
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This will be important. This spring, the operating assumption was that the schools would not be involved, except that the NCAA would require the schools to monitor and report. How it works in practice remains to be seen and, whatever system evolves will be subject to circumvention.
short ornery norwegian said:
So, to answer your question - the endorsing company's value is tied to the image and name recognition of the athlete. meaning that star players will get almost all of the opportunities.

in the Twin Cities market, a Chet Holmgren or Jalen Suggs type of player will have opportunities. But some backup SG for the Gophers won't see squat.
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True, if there is an effort to actually link the value of the endorsement to the NIL of the individual athlete, but that might not be the case in all circumstances. Let's say I have a home security company and I am also a Gopher football fan. It might be worth $10,000 to my business to run some ads about how protecting your home is like protecting your quarterback and lead me to pay an offensive lineman to be in my ads. Or I might hire five o-linemen at $10,000 each for the ads. If I really love the football team and want them to compete for the best offensive linemen each year, I might pay even more. The top programs will find ways to make sure that everyone they care about is getting some action.
 

howeda7 said:
I assume some schools will have boosters who "sign" every player for a set amount to "endorse" their company and then just boost the amount for the stars. If it leads to college super-teams it will ruin the sport.
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Yep exactly. And I’d imagine it absolutely will lead to super teams in basketball. You just allowed the below table money to become above table. Going to ruin college athletics imo for the vast majority of teams
 



upnorthkid said:
Yep exactly. And I’d imagine it absolutely will lead to super teams in basketball. You just allowed the below table money to become above table. Going to ruin college athletics imo for the vast majority of teams
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I can see Division 1 splitting in two with the 25-30 best "super teams" being in their own division and having "endorsement payrolls" in the millions for football and basketball. Minnesota will not be among them.
 

howeda7 said:
I can see Division 1 splitting in two with the 25-30 best "super teams" being in their own division and having "endorsement payrolls" in the millions for football and basketball. Minnesota will not be among them.
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you very well may be right. may also cause a lot of college teams to axe many programs as the ability to keep up will be quite rough (ie having to get "booster money" to pay an additional X amount to an entire college football team is going to raise a GREAT many eyebrows here if they go forward with that). Capitalism/the free market will kill college football as we currently know it
 


MennoSota said:
But why? What value does the athlete bring to their company? How will that company recoup their expenditure?
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if a booster donates regularly to the school, they now have the ability to "pay" the player directly to use their likeness to do an ad (and now you can brag that you have that player under your wing to your fellow boosters) rather than donate to the school to allocate it how they wish or do this all under the table. pretty easy to make some bullshit advertising for the player to get them to sign with your favorite school then make a plan in place to do more bullshit ads for TDs, sacks, interceptions, double-doubles, pick whatever you want to pay them now above the table and get your name out of any risk of being in the muck.

This same idea can also apply to players who make a "logo" then slap it on a shirt that the booster buys 1000 of to "sell" at their store
 



MennoSota said:
But why? What value does the athlete bring to their company? How will that company recoup their expenditure?
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For a lot of them it won't be about ROI, it's simply them wanting to support the program so they will be willing to throw money with little to no return.
 
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MennoSota said:
But why? What value does the athlete bring to their company? How will that company recoup their expenditure?
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There are a few athletes where their endorsement will provide some benefit--say Stephanie Samedy endorsing a volleyball camp or Sammy Walker for a protein bar. But the vast majority will be people hoping to benefit directly or indirectly as being seen as a supporter of the university and its programs. Not sure how far that will go in the Twin Cities, but there are a lot of people in Lincoln or Iowa City who will have a favorable impression of a business which supports Husker football or Hawkeye wrestling. Beyond that, there are also those who perceive benefit from being a big shot booster as upnorth and Gopher Teeth suggest.
 

MennoSota said:
But why? What value does the athlete bring to their company? How will that company recoup their expenditure?
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They don't care about that. These are boosters who will divert former donations to direct payments.
 

howeda7 said:
They don't care about that. These are boosters who will divert former donations to direct payments.
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And we have fewer big donors than a ton of schools. It will have a giant influence on recruiting because there will be off the court distraction issue and team chemistry issues. Nike will pay and play, Silicon valley execs will help Stanford. Fans will follow the two big sports differently. Some coaches will leave the game, some will cash in even larger.
 

howeda7 said:
They don't care about that. These are boosters who will divert former donations to direct payments.
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this might be a whole different part of a new problem-- Company A has "donated" to the U for years and got a plug as a sponsor. So tax-wise if that was treated as a donation is it different than being treated as an advertising expense and how is it now treated if they take the money they used to donate to the U and use that money to pay individual players for using their NIL? Does that make the player an employee or is the kid setting themselves up as a corporation or just a W-9 subcontractor.
and someone will have to be keeping track because the IRS will want to know how much each kid got so that the IRS can get their cut. Kids are smart these days but no-one is ready for that first tax bill and losing a 3 year starter to Federal prison on a tax evasion charge is the sort of thing that could hurt a program
 

don't know if moving the bag man from under the table to over the table will be the big driver. I saw an estimate from a year ago that tre jones could earn about $250K a year from his tweets and instagram posts. the estimate is based on the number of his followers. under ncaa rules pre NIL tre could make money off personal posts, but not sports related posts
 

Minnesconsin fan said:
this might be a whole different part of a new problem-- Company A has "donated" to the U for years and got a plug as a sponsor. So tax-wise if that was treated as a donation is it different than being treated as an advertising expense and how is it now treated if they take the money they used to donate to the U and use that money to pay individual players for using their NIL? Does that make the player an employee or is the kid setting themselves up as a corporation or just a W-9 subcontractor.
and someone will have to be keeping track because the IRS will want to know how much each kid got so that the IRS can get their cut. Kids are smart these days but no-one is ready for that first tax bill and losing a 3 year starter to Federal prison on a tax evasion charge is the sort of thing that could hurt a program
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They are not employees. They will be independent contractors and get a 1099 and yes have to pay taxes. One disadvantage vs the bag of cash method.
 

GopherOhana said:
don't know if moving the bag man from under the table to over the table will be the big driver. I saw an estimate from a year ago that tre jones could earn about $250K a year from his tweets and instagram posts. the estimate is based on the number of his followers. under ncaa rules pre NIL tre could make money off personal posts, but not sports related posts
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I saw a similar amount for Paige Bueckers.
 

2nd Degree Gopher said:
There are a few athletes where their endorsement will provide some benefit--say Stephanie Samedy endorsing a volleyball camp or Sammy Walker for a protein bar. But the vast majority will be people hoping to benefit directly or indirectly as being seen as a supporter of the university and its programs. Not sure how far that will go in the Twin Cities, but there are a lot of people in Lincoln or Iowa City who will have a favorable impression of a business which supports Husker football or Hawkeye wrestling. Beyond that, there are also those who perceive benefit from being a big shot booster as upnorth and Gopher Teeth suggest.
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Yeah I dont think the NIL will help the Gophers much. The U isnt a brand here like Nebraska is in Lincoln, Michigan is in Ann Arbor, or Indiana is in Bloomington. Advertising with college athletes will be much more appealing in those places.
 

Minnesconsin fan said:
this might be a whole different part of a new problem-- Company A has "donated" to the U for years and got a plug as a sponsor. So tax-wise if that was treated as a donation is it different than being treated as an advertising expense and how is it now treated if they take the money they used to donate to the U and use that money to pay individual players for using their NIL? Does that make the player an employee or is the kid setting themselves up as a corporation or just a W-9 subcontractor.
and someone will have to be keeping track because the IRS will want to know how much each kid got so that the IRS can get their cut. Kids are smart these days but no-one is ready for that first tax bill and losing a 3 year starter to Federal prison on a tax evasion charge is the sort of thing that could hurt a program
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Lol if they are making enough to put them in the sights of the IRS they will certainly hire an accountant to take care of that stuff for them. Do we ever see professional athletes dinged for tax issues? Rarely if ever, don't know why this would be different.
 

adchester said:
Yeah I dont think the NIL will help the Gophers much. The U isnt a brand here like Nebraska is in Lincoln, Michigan is in Ann Arbor, or Indiana is in Bloomington. Advertising with college athletes will be much more appealing in those places.
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Unless ... you get a rich U booster (I assume there are more than zero still alive) who wants to buy 10k tshirts with a new recruits "personal logo/brand" on them. They'll sit in a box somewhere, sure, but that isn't the point.

Or have that kid appear in a TV commercial for a car wash ... for $100k.


Who's going to say that something is bona fide or not? There will be other forces at play than just market forces.
 



per Shooter:

Could 6-11 Dawson Garcia from Prior Lake become available to the Gophers men’s basketball team via the transfer portal? Garcia averaged nine points and 5.5 rebounds before leaving North Carolina in January to be with family members with medical issues.

The Gophers men’s basketball program, which signed a half-dozen players from the NCAA transfer portal last year, again will be aggressive in the portal for next season, seeking a big center.

www.twincities.com

Charley Walters: It’s been 60 years since Eric Magdanz set a Gophers’ record

It was 60 years ago Saturday that Eric Magdanz set a University of Minnesota men’s basketball single-game scoring record with 42 points at Michigan. “I could have kicked it and it would have gone i…
www.twincities.com www.twincities.com

Go Gophers!!
 

Who knows where he will play next season. No question that he would be a great addition to next years roster.

He did 26pts and 8 boards early season against Purdue. Attached are some highlights. Williams owned him in the paint. Garcia did not appear to be a strong inside presence and looked more like a 4 than a 5. He is not a typical 6/11 BIG 5. Probably the kind of player we expected a game ready TT to be.
 



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