All Things Dawson Garcia Recruitment Thread (Class of 2020): UPDATED: Gophers Offered

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gophereric30 said:
Yeah exactly! I thought about that too. One other reason to not like wojo. Now these other guys have to worry about playing time in which they thought they were set!
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They probably sold him on playing the perimeter. Much the same way Pitino did for Mitchell.
 

Bad Gopher said:
To be clear, I don't fault the staff for failing to recruit any one particular local 5-star athlete. But to be able to get one at some point--and we should expect that the squirrel will happen upon an acorn here and there--you do have to do everything right. That includes jumping on a prospect, developing a relationship, and offering them the instant it's clear they're good enough. Garcia had already been rated a 4-star prospect for some time and had prominent out-of-state programs offer him (wasn't Texas the first?) before we did. That can't happen.
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Not a personal shot at you Bad Gopher as it happens all the time, but maybe it has to do with how local guys are treated/forgotten when they get here. Amir Coffey was a top 30 kid until his knee gave out his JR year and he dropped into the 50's. Oturo was 50's as well and his ranking stunted because he committed early (Flaw in the ranking system). I feel like so many fans don't appreciate them when they stay, so I don't blame kids for wanting something different. In football it's getting better, but remember how Liedner was treated as well.

We were on Garcia plenty early. Ben Johnson was there from the beginning. Early offers matter to some and not to others. Obviously it didn't to Garcia because Texas didn't make it and he allowed Memphis and Indiana to jump in late.
 

gophereric30 said:
Yeah exactly! I thought about that too. One other reason to not like wojo. Now these other guys have to worry about playing time in which they thought they were set!
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WoJo's rep is starting to get a little tarnished. Hard to believe he's still the heir to the throne at Duke. He'll continue to get recruited negatively on this stuff. He already gets beat up on the Hausers.
 

For every Oturo and Coffey there are a dozen Garcia, Hurt, Jones, etc. Pitino's relationship with local players/coaches if poor at best.
 

I get if you want to leave the state or some other school is better for your field of study, but too many of the locals think the grass will be greener somewhere else. All these guys want to go elsewhere because the perception of the program, but if these guys would just come together and want to play with their buddies here at the U things could be unbelievable. Things will be fine with us because there are other players and other states, but until we get more of the guys like last year where they want to play together and represent the state, its gonna be like pulling teeth to get guys here. Someone needs to follow Oturu's lead and make the move! Pitino and staff worked their ass off to get Garcia! Cant make people go here!
 



abrams said:
For every Oturo and Coffey there are a dozen Garcia, Hurt, Jones, etc. Pitino's relationship with local players/coaches if poor at best.
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Same at every school. For every 2 guys you get you dont get 10. Thats the nature of recruiting!
 

abrams said:
For every Oturo and Coffey there are a dozen Garcia, Hurt, Jones, etc. Pitino's relationship with local players/coaches if poor at best.
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Yet it's significantly better than Tubby's or Monson's was. What's your point?
 

Local guys? I don't agree necessarily. You have a major metro university, you should be able to get top local talent to stay. The local reputation for the UofM basketball is poor at best. You need to hire a local guy as a recruiting coordination to help establish relationships.
 



Every state has top talent that leaves the state. That is true. No denying it.

But, Minnesota has the following combination of factors:
- geographic isolation (not like Wyoming, but more like that than Ohio)
- bitter cold and darkness in the dead of winter (nothing we can do about it ... it gets old when it's the first X years of your life)
- the U bball program is the only major DI program in the state, and they haven't had as much success lately, even as say Wisconsin

When you combine those factors, I say they give a higher than average bias of top ranked players wanting to get out of the state. Not at all 100%, just higher than a state like NC, or Ohio, or etc.


Now in this, specific, case, he's only going over to Milwaukee, and to a decent but not great program. So a lot of those factors didn't quite come into play.

But I'm saying on average, over time. It's an extra bias against us.
 

abrams said:
Local guys? I don't agree necessarily. You have a major metro university, you should be able to get top local talent to stay. The local reputation for the UofM basketball is poor at best. You need to hire a local guy as a recruiting coordination to help establish relationships.
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How many of Marquettes recruits are from Milwaukee. How about Georgetown keeping D.C. guys? Local guy Ben Johnson couldn't keep guys who would? Name a guy who was "more liked" locally that would've kept them...
 

MnplsGopher said:
Every state has top talent that leaves the state. That is true. No denying it.

But, Minnesota has the following combination of factors:
- geographic isolation (not like Wyoming, but more like that than Ohio)
- bitter cold and darkness in the dead of winter (nothing we can do about it ... it gets old when it's the first X years of your life)
- the U bball program is the only major DI program in the state, and they haven't had as much success lately, even as say Wisconsin

When you combine those factors, I say they give a higher than average bias of top ranked players wanting to get out of the state. Not at all 100%, just higher than a state like NC, or Ohio, or etc.


Now in this, specific, case, he's only going over to Milwaukee, and to a decent but not great program. So a lot of those factors didn't quite come into play.

But I'm saying on average, over time. It's an extra bias against us.
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MN fans desperately need another D1 school in the state to get over the provincialism. It's exhausting at times.
 

Bad Gopher said:
To be clear, I don't fault the staff for failing to recruit any one particular local 5-star athlete. But to be able to get one at some point--and we should expect that the squirrel will happen upon an acorn here and there--you do have to do everything right. That includes jumping on a prospect, developing a relationship, and offering them the instant it's clear they're good enough. Garcia had already been rated a 4-star prospect for some time and had prominent out-of-state programs offer him (wasn't Texas the first?) before we did. That can't happen.
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I’d say Oturu and Coffey qualify for the squirrel finding the nut. I realize both were short of 5-stars but we need to keep getting these guys and then luck into something else.
 




manderson1984 said:
MN fans desperately need another D1 school in the state to get over the provincialism. It's exhausting at times.
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I'm not sure if that really addresses my main point.

Say that St Thomas was the same thing as Marquette (institutionally, they are), and was in the Big East, and played games at the Xcel.

I still think Garcia leaves the state. I still think top Minn players have the higher bias, that I explained.
 

MnplsGopher said:
Every state has top talent that leaves the state. That is true. No denying it.

But, Minnesota has the following combination of factors:
- geographic isolation (not like Wyoming, but more like that than Ohio)
- bitter cold and darkness in the dead of winter (nothing we can do about it ... it gets old when it's the first X years of your life)
- the U bball program is the only major DI program in the state, and they haven't had as much success lately, even as say Wisconsin

When you combine those factors, I say they give a higher than average bias of top ranked players wanting to get out of the state. Not at all 100%, just higher than a state like NC, or Ohio, or etc.


Now in this, specific, case, he's only going over to Milwaukee, and to a decent but not great program. So a lot of those factors didn't quite come into play.

But I'm saying on average, over time. It's an extra bias against us.
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Yeah i get some of those, but every big ten school is freezing in the winter. I get going from minnesota to florida, or duke, or arizona, but marquette is freezing in the winter. Indiana is cold in the winter! Michigan state and michigan or freezing in the winter. I live in chicago and went to the U and both are cold as hell.
 

gophereric30 said:
Yeah i get some of those, but every big ten school is freezing in the winter. I get going from minnesota to florida, or duke, or arizona, but marquette is freezing in the winter. Indiana is cold in the winter! Michigan state and michigan or freezing in the winter. I live in chicago and went to the U and both are cold as hell.
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Freezing, literally, is 32 degrees. That's a heck of a lot better feeling than even 20 degrees, let alone single digits, let alone negatives.

It's a small factor, if you're considering going from Minnesota to Great Lakes or the NE. But the rest of the country is significantly warmer in the dead of winter.

Again, I'm only talking about an increase in the bias. If the bias against NC schools for a NC player wanting to leave the state is like 20%, then maybe for a Minnesota player wanting to leave the state the bias is 30-40%. That type of a thing. Not an absolute.
 

The conversations the last 2.5 pages are cringe worthy. Hoping we are pleasantly surprised today.
 

MnplsGopher said:
I'm not sure if that really addresses my main point.

Say that St Thomas was the same thing as Marquette (institutionally, they are), and was in the Big East, and played games at the Xcel.

I still think Garcia leaves the state. I still think top Minn players have the higher bias, that I explained.
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Sorry, it was addition and not disagreeing with you. Kids in general are more mobile now. They leave and move. Not uncommon. We have some bias against ourselves as part of our nature. Our media is awful towards the U, which doesn't happen in other places. That doesn't help.
 

gray4heisman said:
The conversations the last 2.5 pages are cringe worthy. Hoping we are pleasantly surprised today.
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Because we all know here, it's a 1 in a thousand chance that he has a freak, last second change of heart. Not with the amount of data that has come out for Marquette and/or against the U, just recently.
 

manderson1984 said:
Sorry, it was addition and not disagreeing with you. Kids in general are more mobile now. They leave and move. Not uncommon. We have some bias against ourselves as part of our nature. Our media is awful towards the U, which doesn't happen in other places. That doesn't help.
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At least Marcus Fuller has been pimping for the Gophers
 

gray4heisman said:
The conversations the last 2.5 pages are cringe worthy. Hoping we are pleasantly surprised today.
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Ryan James reporting that Garcia informed minnesota that he is not coming here was the one that got me lol Now looking for a miracle that im expecting to not happen!
 

MnplsGopher said:
Every state has top talent that leaves the state. That is true. No denying it.

But, Minnesota has the following combination of factors:
- geographic isolation (not like Wyoming, but more like that than Ohio)
- bitter cold and darkness in the dead of winter (nothing we can do about it ... it gets old when it's the first X years of your life)
- the U bball program is the only major DI program in the state, and they haven't had as much success lately, even as say Wisconsin

When you combine those factors, I say they give a higher than average bias of top ranked players wanting to get out of the state. Not at all 100%, just higher than a state like NC, or Ohio, or etc.


Now in this, specific, case, he's only going over to Milwaukee, and to a decent but not great program. So a lot of those factors didn't quite come into play.

But I'm saying on average, over time. It's an extra bias against us.
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Understatement to say we have not had as much success as UW lately. They have had a elite program over a 20 year period. The great programs i follow rarely keep in state kids home and those states produce a lot more talent than this state. What they have is great coaching that finds the players that fit what they do.
 


gophereric30 said:
Ryan James reporting that Garcia informed minnesota that he is not coming here was the one that got me lol Now looking for a miracle that im expecting to not happen!
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He was never coming here. This was, again, another example of the hometown kid being polite to the Gophers until the end.
 

Bad Gopher said:
To be clear, I don't fault the staff for failing to recruit any one particular local 5-star athlete. But to be able to get one at some point--and we should expect that the squirrel will happen upon an acorn here and there--you do have to do everything right. That includes jumping on a prospect, developing a relationship, and offering them the instant it's clear they're good enough. Garcia had already been rated a 4-star prospect for some time and had prominent out-of-state programs offer him (wasn't Texas the first?) before we did. That can't happen.
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This. No one is asking him to land Tyus Jones or bat .1000 on the others. But the batting average is way too low. That combined with the on-court results and it's hard to find reasons to continue this era.
 

manderson1984 said:
We did have a good shot. We made his final group and had a real chance. Sometimes the kid makes other choices. Agreed, get the kids who want to be here, who cares where they are from. If we are so stuck on local flavors, Kerwin Walton would be dynamite and he said we are still in it. Pitino has shown to be quite good at spring recruiting, we will be fine.
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Will we be as fine as we’ve been the last 7 years?
 

tikited said:
He was never coming here. This was, again, another example of the hometown kid being polite to the Gophers until the end.
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This one is different. Garcia had strong interest in Minnesota and Pitino still lost out to Marquette. Inexcusable, really.
 

tikited said:
He was never coming here. This was, again, another example of the hometown kid being polite to the Gophers until the end.
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Exactly! Like i said before, its almost like everyone includes us in their top 5 just to be nice to us lol
 

John Galt said:
This one is different. Garcia had strong interest in Minnesota and Pitino still lost out to Marquette. Inexcusable, really.
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Again, we made a huge effort to get him. Cant make people come here. He chose marquette im guessing for some reason. People were saying the parents loved pitino and wanted him to come here. True or not, what can you do?
 

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