All things D2 and D3 football 2022

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Some guy said:
You mean the 16-18 year olds on their team? Yeah I bet they were really good.
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Tarpley, Olson et al would piss pound say St. Olaf. Coughlin, Cashman, Spielman, et al would laugh at the athletes at Hamline. Just sayin’.
 

Gopherchase said:
Tarpley, Olson et al would piss pound say St. Olaf. Coughlin, Cashman, Spielman, et al would laugh at the athletes at Hamline. Just sayin’.
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I’ve seen enough. If you are going to keep doubling down on a dumb viewpoint like this, it is time to crank up the ignore list. Coming into a D3 college football conversation and filling it up with ridiculous trolling material, it is quite frankly shame on me for engaging the silly stuff at all. My mistake. Time to move on with the ignore list, and get back to the good discussion that had been going on here.
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Gusties really disappointed with their dominant, yet losing effort to Wisconsin Stout on Saturday. They are pushing hard to join Bethel and St. John’s in the top tier, but continue to get in their own way. It looks like Covid/inflation/fundraising has delayed the final phase of their facilities upgrades (including the pending indoor practice facility), so if they are going to complete the upward leap, they are going to have to do it on a more level facility playing field.
 



Schnauzer said:
Gusties really disappointed with their dominant, yet losing effort to Wisconsin Stout on Saturday. They are pushing hard to join Bethel and St. John’s in the top tier, but continue to get in their own way. It looks like Covid/inflation/fundraising has delayed the final phase of their facilities upgrades (including the pending indoor practice facility), so if they are going to complete the upward leap, they are going to have to do it on a more level facility playing field.
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I'd say the Gusties have been ahead of Bethel in the facilites race for 15 years now since the new stadium opened. I really don't think you can spend your way to the next level, just takes some special teams to win the big games and then the recruiting will follow.
 


AO54 said:
I'd say the Gusties have been ahead of Bethel in the facilites race for 15 years now since the new stadium opened. I really don't think you can spend your way to the next level, just takes some special teams to win the big games and then the recruiting will follow.
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Nonetheless, spending is important. Very important. Not just facilities, though. D3 administrations need to be creative and flexible in finding scholarship money that athletes can utilize while still remaining in compliance. E.g. leadership schollies, inner city student money, etc. It can be expensive on its face, but strong football and basketball teams bring notoriety and desirability to a school that is hard to quantify. A lot of schools, probably most, won't invest the necessary funds to get to that next level.
 



On that Gustavus highlight - I admit this is a nitpick, but I do not consider that a "Hail Mary" pass.

It was a long pass late in the game, but I generally think of a "hail mary" pass as a desperation heave into the end zone on the last play of the game or with time running out.

Here, Stout had :23 sec left, so they had time to pick up the first down. So, I guess I don't see that as a Hail Mary. You are free to disagree.
 

noamfromm said:
2009 Wayzata:
- LB at NDSU
- LB at Stanford
- EDGE at Nebraska

I'm supposed to believe that those three players alone would wreck Hamline?
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A future NFL player, a borderline future NFL player who was an All American at NDSU, a wrecking ball of an edge and their cronies who nearly all played various levels of college ball yes would have destroyed Hamline and given the rest of the MIAC a game. I find it interesting it’s even a question, but I guess that’s just me. On any given Saturday when St. Olaf is playing Carleton and Hamline is playing Gustavus it can be big fun to watch, but there isn’t any real talent on the field. The concept of some of those teams’ OL blocking Tarpley and Olson who were grown ass men in HS and started as true freshman on really good teams, is amusing.
 

Gopherchase said:
A future NFL player, a borderline future NFL player who was an All American at NDSU, a wrecking ball of an edge and their cronies who nearly all played various levels of college ball yes would have destroyed Hamline and given the rest of the MIAC a game. I find it interesting it’s even a question, but I guess that’s just me. On any given Saturday when St. Olaf is playing Carleton and Hamline is playing Gustavus it can be big fun to watch, but there isn’t any real talent on the field. The concept of some of those teams’ OL blocking Tarpley and Olson who were grown ass men in HS and started as true freshman on really good teams, is amusing.
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The more you bring this up, the crazier it sounds. They were 16-18 yrs old while playing in HS. If they had all stuck around and played together into to their early 20s, sure they would hold their own in the MIAC.

As kids. No.
 

It's like when people claim that the FBS champion (say some Alabama team) could beat the worst NFL team, say one of those really bad Detroit or Cleveland teams.

No. That would never, ever, ever happen. The pro's would destroy Alabama.
 



Gopherchase said:
A future NFL player, a borderline future NFL player who was an All American at NDSU, a wrecking ball of an edge and their cronies who nearly all played various levels of college ball yes would have destroyed Hamline and given the rest of the MIAC a game. I find it interesting it’s even a question, but I guess that’s just me. On any given Saturday when St. Olaf is playing Carleton and Hamline is playing Gustavus it can be big fun to watch, but there isn’t any real talent on the field. The concept of some of those teams’ OL blocking Tarpley and Olson who were grown ass men in HS and started as true freshman on really good teams, is amusing.
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Exactly
 


AO54 said:
New Jersey, New York, Massachusetts.
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The NE is dominated by private colleges and universities. So I disagree that it's an equivalent situation to in Wisconsin, which certainly has a few, but it's an entire network of U of Wisc schools that are artificially in DIII and should be in DII. As I said, these schools are equivalent to Duluth, Mankato, St Cloud in size and function. Should not be allowed in DIII.
 

discochris said:
It's like when people claim that the FBS champion (say some Alabama team) could beat the worst NFL team, say one of those really bad Detroit or Cleveland teams.

No. That would never, ever, ever happen. The pro's would destroy Alabama.
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I would say that this fella is firmly in that group of people. I'm sure he's a believer of NDSU moving to FBS and dominating whatever conference, as well.
 


Gophers_4life said:
The NE is dominated by private colleges and universities. So I disagree that it's an equivalent situation to in Wisconsin, which certainly has a few, but it's an entire network of U of Wisc schools that are artificially in DIII and should be in DII. As I said, these schools are equivalent to Duluth, Mankato, St Cloud in size and function. Should not be allowed in DIII.
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About 20% of the 440 D3 Colleges and Universities are public. It's a big division and they are most welcome in it. They have some advantage in recruiting with their relatively low price point and variety of academic programs, but in college a larger enrollment really doesn't help at all. The private colleges they're competing with often have better academics and many have grants, and need based aid that makes them cheaper than the publics. Just last week a small private college with 1,800 undergrads, Hardin-Simmons, flew up to UW-Platteville and beat them 41-0.

My second thought is that Division 2 is probably the wrong division for many public universities in it. Many have lower attendance and less revenue than D3 schools but are still paying out scholarships to athletes that should probably be spread out amongst all students at the university. Being D3 maybe could have saved the programs at Crookston or St. Cloud.
 

AO54 said:
About 20% of the 440 D3 Colleges and Universities are public. It's a big division and they are most welcome in it. They have some advantage in recruiting with their relatively low price point and variety of academic programs, but in college a larger enrollment really doesn't help at all. The private colleges they're competing with often have better academics and many have grants, and need based aid that makes them cheaper than the publics. Just last week a small private college with 1,800 undergrads, Hardin-Simmons, flew up to UW-Platteville and beat them 41-0.

My second thought is that Division 2 is probably the wrong division for many public universities in it. Many have lower attendance and less revenue than D3 schools but are still paying out scholarships to athletes that should probably be spread out amongst all students at the university. Being D3 maybe could have saved the programs at Crookston or St. Cloud.
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Your line of thinking and reasoning is absolutely wrong.

These are not for-profit ventures. Public schools receive taxpayer subsidizing. Therefore, if they're going to have an athletics program at all, it is wrong for them to not be giving athletic scholarships.

Won't change my mind on that.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
On that Gustavus highlight - I admit this is a nitpick, but I do not consider that a "Hail Mary" pass.

It was a long pass late in the game, but I generally think of a "hail mary" pass as a desperation heave into the end zone on the last play of the game or with time running out.

Here, Stout had :23 sec left, so they had time to pick up the first down. So, I guess I don't see that as a Hail Mary. You are free to disagree.
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How do you play one-on-one man coverage on Stout's best wide receiver in that situation?
 



Gophers_4life said:
Your line of thinking and reasoning is absolutely wrong.

These are not for-profit ventures. Public schools receive taxpayer subsidizing. Therefore, if they're going to have an athletics program at all, it is wrong for them to not be giving athletic scholarships.

Won't change my mind on that.
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I'd say that because they're public it is wrong to favor the athletes over every other student when the athletic program doesn't generate revenue to come close to covering the program costs even excluding the scholarship costs.
 

Gopherchase said:
Tarpley, Olson et al would piss pound say St. Olaf. Coughlin, Cashman, Spielman, et al would laugh at the athletes at Hamline. Just sayin’.
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I don't know if it matters but I played on one of the better HS teams in the history of MN. We won the big school state championship, we had 7 division 1 football players and a number of the BCS athletes were vastly under recruited.

We scrimmaged Macalester a few times. This Macalester team was significantly worse than where the program is right now.

They absolutely bullied us, especially up front.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I don't know if it matters but I played on one of the better HS teams in the history of MN. We won the big school state championship, we had 7 division 1 football players and a number of the BCS athletes were vastly under recruited.

We scrimmaged Macalester a few times. This Macalester team was significantly worse than where the program is right now.

They absolutely bullied us, especially up front.
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This does matter and is exactly why college teams would get killed by NFL teams. Great input
 


AO54 said:
I'd say that because they're public it is wrong to favor the athletes over every other student when the athletic program doesn't generate revenue to come close to covering the program costs even excluding the scholarship costs.
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I think the idea of athletics at a public school is more for recognition, a campus atmosphere, a reason for alumni to follow the college after graduation, fundraising, etc. The programs don’t need to make money.
 

UpAndUnder43 said:
I think the idea of athletics at a public school is more for recognition, a campus atmosphere, a reason for alumni to follow the college after graduation, fundraising, etc. The programs don’t need to make money.
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All of those things happen at the D3 level as well.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I don't know if it matters but I played on one of the better HS teams in the history of MN. We won the big school state championship, we had 7 division 1 football players and a number of the BCS athletes were vastly under recruited.

We scrimmaged Macalester a few times. This Macalester team was significantly worse than where the program is right now.

They absolutely bullied us, especially up front.
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That's really interesting and honestly kind of eye-opening. I remember when Mac was the absolute bottom feeders of D3. I wonder how much had to do with just overall body maturity and strength.
 

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