All things D2 and D3 football 2022

Donate To GopherHole
Some guy said:
To run a scholarship d1 program at the FCS level it would take around 7 million extra per year. I’m not aware of a donor who would pay it: I think pioneer is perfect for them. St Thomas moved up to become a basketball school
Click to expand...
Yep, and that makes sense for them - we should have another D1 hoops program here. My old boss, since retired, was talking to the volleyball coach at UST just before they made the transition. I can't recall what he told me the budget increase was just for volleyball, but it was a lot of money. 63 football scholarships aren't likely in the cards.

Plus, Nobody really knows what's going to happen with football. The Dakota schools could (could, not will) get an invite to move to FBS, but then again, we could see yet another split of some sort at the FBS level. Blindly trying to get into the MVFC might not be a good idea.
 

discochris said:
Yep, and that makes sense for them - we should have another D1 hoops program here. My old boss, since retired, was talking to the volleyball coach at UST just before they made the transition. I can't recall what he told me the budget increase was just for volleyball, but it was a lot of money. 63 football scholarships aren't likely in the cards.

Plus, Nobody really knows what's going to happen with football. The Dakota schools could (could, not will) get an invite to move to FBS, but then again, we could see yet another split of some sort at the FBS level. Blindly trying to get into the MVFC might not be a good idea.
Click to expand...
And it’s not just 63 football scholarships

It’s that plus the amount you need to stay title 9 compliant.

I suspect if they ever go scholarship football they drop some other mens programs. Because if they don’t they’d have to expand women’s programs to stay compliant
 

Looking at the polls for D2, looks like the Northern Sun has really fallen off. 1 team in the Top 25. I think a lot of kids would rather go to St. Thomas, Gustavus, St. Johns, or Bethel etc.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
Looking at the polls for D2, looks like the Northern Sun has really fallen off. 1 team in the Top 25. I think a lot of kids would rather go to St. Thomas, Gustavus, St. Johns, or Bethel etc.
Click to expand...
To be fair, UMD and MSU Mankato are both receiving votes, as is Bemidji State. USF also looks good this year. Could be very possible Duluth, Mankato and Sioux Falls end up in the Top 25 as the season goes on.

Also Mankato was the national runner-up in 2019 and made it to the national semi-final in 2018.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
Looking at the polls for D2, looks like the Northern Sun has really fallen off. 1 team in the Top 25. I think a lot of kids would rather go to St. Thomas, Gustavus, St. Johns, or Bethel etc.
Click to expand...

I'd argue that MSU Mankato and UMD have as a good chance to compete nationally in good years as St. Johns and Bethel (which usually do not have the juice of the very top national D3 programs) and definitely better than GAC historically. The NSIC has had two national champions (UMD) and two national runner-ups (Mankato) since St. Johns was last in, and won, the finals in 2003.

Bemidji nor Augustana have proven themselves yet nationally.

St. Thomas is now irrelevant nationally.

On a side note, looking at the past D2 winners since UMD's last win in 2010, it appears that university size has its advantages when it comes to D2 football.

1662562785006.png
 

Attachments

  • 1662562670361.png
    1662562670361.png
    22.4 KB · Views: 0


Some guy said:
And it’s not just 63 football scholarships

It’s that plus the amount you need to stay title 9 compliant.

I suspect if they ever go scholarship football they drop some other mens programs. Because if they don’t they’d have to expand women’s programs to stay compliant
Click to expand...
Not mention that they have men's and women's hockey, which are very expensive programs too. As far as I know, they plan to try to be nationally competitive in those. UND dropped their women's team because it's so expensive.

If they keep football long term, Pioneer is perfect for them.
 

Panthadad2 said:
I'd argue that MSU Mankato and UMD have as a good chance to compete nationally in good years as St. Johns and Bethel (which usually do not have the juice of the very top national D3 programs) and definitely better than GAC historically. The NSIC has had two national champions (UMD) and two national runner-ups (Mankato) since St. Johns was last in, and won, the finals in 2003.

Bemidji nor Augustana have proven themselves yet nationally.

St. Thomas is now irrelevant nationally.

On a side note, looking at the past D2 winners since UMD's last win in 2010, it appears that university size has its advantages when it comes to D2 football.

View attachment 20217
Click to expand...
Yep, the obvious thing is: you can charge a smaller fee per student to subsidize the athletic program. Would guess almost no DII programs pay for themselves.
 

Gophers_4life said:
Yep, the obvious thing is: you can charge a smaller fee per student to subsidize the athletic program. Would guess almost no DII programs pay for themselves.
Click to expand...

They probably pay for themselves if you count the "recruited tuition" of students that would not have come to the school if not for football. Definitely not if you're just counting ticket and media revenue. Successful marketing from having good athletics generates good P.R. and revenue but it's impossible to measure.
 

There are still some scholarships in DII, so that reduces it a bit. But still a fair point.

In DIII, especially at small (liberal arts) colleges is where that argument really makes a lot of sense. And particularly to get more men on the campus!
 



Gophers_4life said:
There are still some scholarships in DII, so that reduces it a bit. But still a fair point.

In DIII, especially at small (liberal arts) colleges is where that argument really makes a lot of sense. And particularly to get more men on the campus!
Click to expand...

This last point about men is more important than most would think, especially in private schools. I think the female/male mix is often higher than 60/40.
 
Last edited:

Panthadad2 said:
I'd argue that MSU Mankato and UMD have as a good chance to compete nationally in good years as St. Johns and Bethel (which usually do not have the juice of the very top national D3 programs) and definitely better than GAC historically. The NSIC has had two national champions (UMD) and two national runner-ups (Mankato) since St. Johns was last in, and won, the finals in 2003.

Bemidji nor Augustana have proven themselves yet nationally.

St. Thomas is now irrelevant nationally.

On a side note, looking at the past D2 winners since UMD's last win in 2010, it appears that university size has its advantages when it comes to D2 football.

View attachment 20217
Click to expand...
Good stats. Also in the Mineral Water Bowl, which is a match-up between the NSIC and usually the MIAA, the NSIC has won five of the last 10.
 

It would have been cool, if the DII programs would have followed NDSU and SDSU into the Valley, whenever that occurred. How many other states is DIII football larger then DII, probably none.
 

Tommyboy said:
It would have been cool, if the DII programs would have followed NDSU and SDSU into the Valley, whenever that occurred. How many other states is DIII football larger then DII, probably none.
Click to expand...

Wisconsin. Iowa. Illinois. More?
 



Gophers_4life said:
Not mention that they have men's and women's hockey, which are very expensive programs too. As far as I know, they plan to try to be nationally competitive in those. UND dropped their women's team because it's so expensive.

If they keep football long term, Pioneer is perfect for them.
Click to expand...
They will keep football. But they aren’t a football school. Pioneer is perfect
 


The Dakota schools didn't just "go to the Valley."

There were transition periods where the schools were in the now defunct Great West Football conference, and UND spent time in the Big Sky as well. Not to mention that the Valley is still a football only conference - the members of that football conference belong to several primary conferences in other sports (MVC, Summit, Horizon.)

In addition, NDSU and SDSU transitioned to D1 before UND and USD by a few years. They didn't all go as one big happy group.

Those are also flagship universities for their respective states. On what planet was the state of Minnesota going to pay for SMSU or MSU-Moorhead or Winona State to go Division 1 in all sports?
 


goldengophers said:
UST is not long for the Pioneer League so I wouldn't recommend SJU follow them there.
Click to expand...
Exactly... After that probationary period that St. Thomas has to follow, I'm willing to bet it won't be long before they're in the MVC. I, for one, am kinda low-key excited about the prospect, since it'd give a bunch of MN kids an opportunity to stay home instead of going west to play for NDSU. Every season there seems to be a couple of dozen MN players on that roster.
 

For the most part, D3 is an extension of HS football kids don’t have to do much in the off season (less than HS kids have to do probably) if they don’t want to and the quality isn’t great. D2 is a step up, but really the FCS is where things get interesting and the play gets real. Minnesota doesn’t put out a lot of big 10 caliber players but they put out a boatload of FCS stars every year. Thats one of the reasons the FCS schools around us play a really good football; overall.
 

laazrakit said:
Exactly... After that probationary period that St. Thomas has to follow, I'm willing to bet it won't be long before they're in the MVC. I, for one, am kinda low-key excited about the prospect, since it'd give a bunch of MN kids an opportunity to stay home instead of going west to play for NDSU. Every season there seems to be a couple of dozen MN players on that roster.
Click to expand...
Where will they play - is O'Shaughnessy big enough? (don't say Allianz - MNUFC would never allow it) and who will fund the 63 scholarships? They still have no permanent home for their hockey teams either.
 

Gopherchase said:
For the most part, D3 is an extension of HS football kids don’t have to do much in the off season (less than HS kids have to do probably) if they don’t want to and the quality isn’t great. D2 is a step up, but really the FCS is where things get interesting and the play gets real. Minnesota doesn’t put out a lot of big 10 caliber players but they put out a boatload of FCS stars every year. Thats one of the reasons the FCS schools around us play a really good football; overall.
Click to expand...

I think you are selling D3 WAY too short. Sure, at certain schools, there may be less emphasis on football. But a lot of D3 programs recruit nationally. There have been D3 players who have made it to the NFL. I watch some D3 games online and I find the games very entertaining.

and D2 plays - IMHO - a solid brand of football.

the big difference between levels is depth. you will find some good players at every level. D2 teams as a rule will have more good players than D3. FCS teams will have more good players than D2, and so on.

but, to say the play isn't "real" at D2 or D3 is - IMHO - not fair to the athletes and coaches who take part at those levels.
 

discochris said:
The Dakota schools didn't just "go to the Valley."

There were transition periods where the schools were in the now defunct Great West Football conference, and UND spent time in the Big Sky as well. Not to mention that the Valley is still a football only conference - the members of that football conference belong to several primary conferences in other sports (MVC, Summit, Horizon.)

In addition, NDSU and SDSU transitioned to D1 before UND and USD by a few years. They didn't all go as one big happy group.

Those are also flagship universities for their respective states. On what planet was the state of Minnesota going to pay for SMSU or MSU-Moorhead or Winona State to go Division 1 in all sports?
Click to expand...
The state wouldn't pay a dime for that. Their students would bear the brunt of that, with athletics fees.
 

Panthadad2 said:
This last point about men is more important than most would think, especially in private schools. I think the female/male mix is often higher than 60/40.
Click to expand...
This article is good IIRC. Your comment jogged my memory.

www.sbnation.com

The D-III football revolution

How America's most violent sport may be saving liberal arts colleges.
www.sbnation.com www.sbnation.com
 

Gopherchase said:
For the most part, D3 is an extension of HS football kids don’t have to do much in the off season (less than HS kids have to do probably) if they don’t want to and the quality isn’t great. D2 is a step up, but really the FCS is where things get interesting and the play gets real. Minnesota doesn’t put out a lot of big 10 caliber players but they put out a boatload of FCS stars every year. Thats one of the reasons the FCS schools around us play a really good football; overall.
Click to expand...

Couldn't be further from the truth. Roughly 7% of high school football players go on to play ANY level of college football.
 

I just noticed two big NSIC games this Saturday.
UMD at MSU Mankato 6pm game (might try to stream this one if available)
Bemidji at Augustana.1pm game

I'll be streaming UMHB at Whitewater at noon as well while poking around other games on Dish. Another Saturday that not much gets done around the house.
 

Gopherchase said:
For the most part, D3 is an extension of HS football kids don’t have to do much in the off season (less than HS kids have to do probably) if they don’t want to and the quality isn’t great. D2 is a step up, but really the FCS is where things get interesting and the play gets real. Minnesota doesn’t put out a lot of big 10 caliber players but they put out a boatload of FCS stars every year. Thats one of the reasons the FCS schools around us play a really good football; overall.
Click to expand...
This attitude and lack of knowledge is what leads so many kids and parents to be frustrated by their high school career.

There are legitimately thousands of parents accross the state of Minnesota with kids who couldn’t get their kids on the field for Hamline who call school coaches and administrators weekly complaining about why their kid isn’t getting d1 looks.


I’ll tell you why they don’t get d1 looks, because they aren’t good enough to play d3.
 

Panthadad2 said:
I just noticed two big NSIC games this Saturday.
UMD at MSU Mankato 6pm game (might try to stream this one if available)
Bemidji at Augustana.1pm game

I'll be streaming UMHB at Whitewater at noon as well while poking around other games on Dish. Another Saturday that not much gets done around the house.
Click to expand...
On that point, the NSIC has a free app that can be downloaded on Roku/AppleTV and the like. All football and basketball games are broadcast on there
 

IceBoxGopher said:
On that point, the NSIC has a free app that can be downloaded on Roku/AppleTV and the like. All football and basketball games are broadcast on there
Click to expand...

Yeah, I've found the Roku apps work really well for the schools and conferences that use them. I think quality streaming is a nice opportunity for non-D1 schools to get some exposure. A close family member goes to UMHB in TX and I'm watching all the time. A nice option.
 

Gopherchase said:
For the most part, D3 is an extension of HS football kids don’t have to do much in the off season (less than HS kids have to do probably) if they don’t want to and the quality isn’t great.
Click to expand...

I guess it is possible there is a D3 program somewhere that operates like this. My experience is with the MIAC and this type of approach would not only guarantee a perennial 0-10 team, but would also likely put a player not doing “much in the off season” in physical danger.
 

Schnauzer said:
I guess it is possible there is a D3 program somewhere that operates like this. My experience is with the MIAC and this type of approach would not only guarantee a perennial 0-10 team, but would also likely put a player not doing “much in the off season” in physical danger.
Click to expand...
Absolutely agree. I am a current student at Carleton (playing soccer, not football) but am good friends with a good number of the football players. Guys are working out 5 days a week in the summer at minimum to prepare for the preseason here, not to mention 6 or 7 days a week once preseason starts, with a lot of double practices. Players wouldn't survive by not doing much in the offseason
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom