All things D2 and D3 football 2022

IceBoxGopher

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Both the Dragons and Cobs were hurt by their annual rivalry game being eliminated IMO. It was a big game that would fill both stadiums to the brim and also carve out some space in the F-M news cycle. Part of me wishes one or the other would move divisions so that game could be reinstated.
Ugh, I know right! It should definitely be an annual match-up, I'm glad they at least play annually in basketball, but it's not the same as on the gridiron.
 

I'm A Maroon 2!

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Enrollment might matter for the level of financial support the school can provide to athletics, but yeah, it's not necessarily a limiting factor. For example, Mount Union has less than 2,000 students. Similarly, Augustana competes very well in most sports in the NSIC as one of the smaller schools.

UT Dallas is one of the largest D3 schools with ~30,000 students, but they do not dominate the ASC conference in most sports.

Regardless, offering cheap in-state tuition like the WIAC does allow a D3 team to build a big roster in comparison to small private schools that don't emphasize athletics. Thus the disparity at the bottom of the conferences like the WIAC vs. MIAC. The top of the conferences are very competitive.
UW - Whitewater actually has quite the advantage in many ways, because their recruiting grounds involve Madison, Milwaukee, and Chicago suburbs within an hour to an hour and a half away. I'm sure other D3 schools have a large metro nearby, maybe even 2. Most likely though, no one else has 3.
 

disco

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It was like that when I attended, too. But I've gone to some games recently and there's been a pretty good atmosphere. I think the remodeling that that took place with the new field, as well as the team winning more with Laqua has done a lot to improve things.
I graduated in 1995 (I'm old). I was the last class still under the quarter system before they switched to a semester calendar. One of the things I'd heard, is that with the switch to semesters, they were changed it so there would be more Friday classes, thus trying to keep kids on campus more on weekends. When I was there, it was a total suitcase school - the campus cleared out on Thursday nights when small town kids would go back home and party with their high school buddies.

I think MSUM is in a tougher spot because of what's around it. MSUM is competing for fan attention, media coverage and probably local recruiting with Concordia College, let alone NDSU across the river. It's something not many other NSIC schools have to deal with.

It is. And even when both schools were D2, the F-M market treated the Bison like they were Alabama or Ohio State, and whitewashed some of the violent or criminal stuff that went on in that program. Used to drive me nuts, especially because I knew a couple guys on the Bison who were real dirtbags from years before.

Duluth and Winona share a market (if you count LaCrosse) with a public and private college, but UWS and St. Marys don't have football, and UWL and Scholastica are not particularly popular D3 progams.

Both the Dragons and Cobs were hurt by their annual rivalry game being eliminated IMO. It was a big game that would fill both stadiums to the brim and also carve out some space in the F-M news cycle. Part of me wishes one or the other would move divisions so that game could be reinstated.

That was fun, and one of the two games I attended. MSUM was NAIA in transition to NCAA my freshman year, but when they fully moved to D2, apparently they couldn't continue. And I agree it hurt Concordia, because to be honest, they're really remote from most of the other MIAC schools.
 


Some guy

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I've wondered for a while if the D2 football model is sustainable at least around here.

I went to MSU-Moorhead and interest in the team was non-existent. The campus was basically empty on weekends. I attended two games, and at one, my drunk buddy literally walked onto the sidelines, stole a football, and we left and went to a park and played touch football the rest of the day. That's how little anyone cared.

Concordia drew well because - MIAC school - and NDSU was a D2 powerhouse at the time, before moving to FCS, and they of course drew lots of fans, so part of it was an oversaturated college football market. But I'm not under the impression football is particularly popular at any of the NSIC schools.

Looking at 2019 numbers (latest I could find on the NCAA site) the NSIC was 12th out of 16 D2 conferences in average attendance, and didn't have a single school in the top 30 for attendance. The MIAC had better average attendance numbers that year and was number one in D3.

With that little interest and I assume little to no revenue (SCSU and UM-Crookston already dropped the sport, and UM-Morris dropped to D3), is D2 football worth the expense for these schools anymore?
That’s true of every non revenue sport of d1 as well though.

It’s just football is a really expensive sport to subsidize due to equipment and umber of athletes
 











short ornery norwegian

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MIAC scoreboard week #1:
Thursday:
Concordia 14, Valley City 12 (Cobbers blocked FG attempt in final seconds)

Saturday:
Sewanee TN 50, St. Scholastica 0
Central College IA 44, St. Olaf 13
Bethel 41, Pacific Lutheran 9
St. John's 24, UW-Whitewater 10 (Reusse with writeup in the Strib)
Macalester 45, UM-Morris 24
Gustavus 62, Buena Vista IA 20
Augsburg 23, Northwestern-St. Paul 15 (Auggies with a pick-6 on Defense)
Hamline 39, Crown College 14
 



Gophers_4life

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It was fun. Lots happened. Hard to explain how poorly played it was at times. But first game between two good teams. Solid crowd and a beautiful day. Hard to argue!
I really think there should somehow be a way for -- at least -- Johnny football to be in the Pioneer League. It's the same rules as DIII football. (Historical reasons for this.)

If not, and I know this is probably a stretch, SJU/CSB (and it's absolutely correct to consider them as a combined campus, for this) just following UST upwards entirely.

Flame away
 

Cfer34

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I really think there should somehow be a way for -- at least -- Johnny football to be in the Pioneer League. It's the same rules as DIII football. (Historical reasons for this.)

If not, and I know this is probably a stretch, SJU/CSB (and it's absolutely correct to consider them as a combined campus, for this) just following UST upwards entirely.

Flame away
As a Johnnie alum, no to everything you stated.
 


Unregistered User

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St. John's 24, UW-Whitewater 10 (Reusse with writeup in the Strib)
Macalester 45, UM-Morris 24
Gustavus 62, Buena Vista IA 20
Augsburg 23, Northwestern-St. Paul 15 (Auggies with a pick-6 on Defense)
Hamline 39, Crown College 14

Awesome to see that pick 6 but Hamsa Kahin. He and his twin brother, Leban, played for Lamker at Edina. Outstanding kids.
 


Gophers_4life

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Pioneer league wins are pretty meaningless too.
Conf champion gets an auto-bid to the FCS playoff. Agree that FCS playoffs are fairly meaningless compared to CFP and major bowls, but it is more meaningful than DIII.

Also, the Tommie-Johnnie game should continue every year. Allianz, Target Field, whatever works best. Absolutely absurd if it can't continue yearly.
 

UpAndUnder43

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Conf champion gets an auto-bid to the FCS playoff. Agree that FCS playoffs are fairly meaningless compared to CFP and major bowls, but it is more meaningful than DIII.

Also, the Tommie-Johnnie game should continue every year. Allianz, Target Field, whatever works best. Absolutely absurd if it can't continue yearly.
St Johns and St Ben’s voted for St Thomas to stay in the MIAC.

I don’t think a school the size of St John’s would fare well in D1. You’re focused on football. The facility upgrades needed for other sports would be too costly.

Not sure if you’re trolling—but if you just want one football game played its obvious you have no idea what else needs to be considered.
 

Gophers_4life

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St Johns and St Ben’s voted for St Thomas to stay in the MIAC.

I don’t think a school the size of St John’s would fare well in D1. You’re focused on football. The facility upgrades needed for other sports would be too costly.
CSB-SJU has 4k undergrads. Not huge, but not tiny. UST is 6k. But the endowment is not even $100M, compared to UST's is $540M. I was thinking it was larger, but not so. So you're probably correct.

I did propose a Pioneer League only option. Should be allowed, due to what the PL is. But that's not currently allowed per the rules.
 

IceBoxGopher

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Here's the NSIC scoreboard for Week 1. Minnesota teams in bold.
Sioux Falls defeated Minnesota State Moorhead, 27-14
Northern State defeated Upper Iowa, 30-0
Minnesota Duluth defeated Southwest Minnesota State 31-21
Minnesota State Mankato defeated Bemidji State, 37-34
Augustana defeated Concordia St. Paul 28-14
Winona State defeated Minot State, 24-10
Wayne State defeated Mary, 33-28

For the week ahead:
Minot State @ Sioux Falls
Bemidji State @ Augustana
Mary @ Winona State
Minnesota State Moorhead
@ Upper Iowa
Concordia St. Paul @ SW Minnesota State
Northern State @ Wayne State
Minnesota Duluth @ Minnesota State Mankato

The game of the week for sure is going to be Bulldogs Vs. Mavericks. I think both are trying to get back to where they were pre-2020, but they're good programs and it should make for an exciting match-up.

As for my team, MSU Moorhead had a tough job for their season opener, since USF is one of the better teams right now in the NSIC. They moved the ball really well and the Dragons gave up some costly turnovers. Not the best way to open the season, but there's definitely a chance for a win at Upper Iowa.
 

UpAndUnder43

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CSB-SJU has 4k undergrads. Not huge, but not tiny. UST is 6k. But the endowment is not even $100M, compared to UST's is $540M. I was thinking it was larger, but not so. So you're probably correct.

I did propose a Pioneer League only option. Should be allowed, due to what the PL is. But that's not currently allowed per the rules.
Yeah—major differences between SJU/UST. I think they could be fine in the pioneer league for football but they can’t go D1 in the rest. UST has the money—will be interesting to see how it goes longterm.
 

goldengophers

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Yeah—major differences between SJU/UST. I think they could be fine in the pioneer league for football but they can’t go D1 in the rest. UST has the money—will be interesting to see how it goes longterm.
UST is not long for the Pioneer League so I wouldn't recommend SJU follow them there.
 


Gophers_4life

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UST is not long for the Pioneer League so I wouldn't recommend SJU follow them there.
They can't just up and choose that they'll join the MVFC. They have to be invited.

They won't be able to compete with the Dakota schools any more than UNI and the Illinois schools can. Budget differences between Dakota schools and Pioneer teams is pretty substantial.

Then there's Title IX. Pioneer League is non-scholarship. MVFC is 63 scholarships.


Not saying it's impossible, at all. Just don't think it's an easy step. I actually could see UST staying long term in the Pioneer League, just like Drake has.

NDSU beat Drake 56-14 in Fargo last weekend. No one is surprised by that.
 

Cfer34

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UST is not long for the Pioneer League so I wouldn't recommend SJU follow them there.
Tommies like to think they aren’t long. But they are bleeding money in their athletic department. Football attendance doesn’t pay for the program and they are spending a ton on travel. They also don’t have room for the facility upgrade.
 

UpAndUnder43

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Tommies like to think they aren’t long. But they are bleeding money in their athletic department. Football attendance doesn’t pay for the program and they are spending a ton on travel. They also don’t have room for the facility upgrade.
And giving scholarships makes the finances even more difficult. Football is expensive
 

Some guy

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UST is not long for the Pioneer League so I wouldn't recommend SJU follow them there.
To run a scholarship d1 program at the FCS level it would take around 7 million extra per year. I’m not aware of a donor who would pay it: I think pioneer is perfect for them. St Thomas moved up to become a basketball school
 

Gophs24

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It was fun. Lots happened. Hard to explain how poorly played it was at times. But first game between two good teams. Solid crowd and a beautiful day. Hard to argue!
was there as well....for being the #4 & #5 teams in the nation it was a sloppy game. Fun game! Johnnies Defense was about as good as it gets that game
 




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