All Things 2024 Minnesota Vikings Off-Season Thread

[MplsGopher]

What happens when there is offensive holding or intentional grounding in the end zone compared to the rest of the field? Theory denied.

Ah, except those two things actually happen in the end zone.

If you have possession of the ball as you cross the goalline, it's a TD. You can't possess the ball, enter into the end zone, and then fumble it.

Theory denial, denied.

 

[MplsGopher]

the Vikings in 6 seasons during the Kirk Cousins era have qualified for the playoffs in 2 out of 6 seasons - and in the two seasons they did qualify for the playoffs, the team went 1-2 in playoff games.

during the Kirk Cousins era the Vikings have made the playoffs in 33% of the seasons and actually won a playoff game in 16% of the seasons.

None of which can be blamed on Cousins solely by any honest person.

This is like a NASCAR driver who isn't winning an average percentage of races blaming the color of the hubcaps.

so they can rebuild

The Wilfs don't rebuild. They prefer to make money.

Go play blackjack with someone else's money, elsewhere. When it's your money, you can dictate how the team is built.

 

[MplsGopher]

Currently, 14/32 teams make the playoffs (43.8%) so Kirk is below average while with the Vikings on that front. Even in 2018-19 when it was only 12/32 (37.5%).

Bunk comparison.

If 14 different teams made the playoffs each year from the year before, then you'd have a leg to stand on.

But back in reality, a lot of the same teams make it year to year.

There are several franchises who don't met this specious bar, over the last six years. Because, indeed, we aren't averaging 14 new teams cycling through the playoff every year.

 

[MplsGopher]

Should every fumble out of bounds go to the defense then?

I already tried that.

They're content to stick their fingers in their ears and their heads up their rear ends.

 

[Ope3]

The actual rule book has never changed. Never. Has never had its rules altered to improve the game. Ever.

Changing the rule wouldn't make the game better. Just different. I hate the lunging for the pylon.

 

[Ope3]

There are several franchises who don't met this specious bar, over the last six years. Because, indeed, we aren't averaging 14 new teams cycling through the playoff every year.

Those teams suck.

 

[MplsGopher]

Following scenario proves I'm correct and the current rule is false:

offensive player is running towards the end-zone sideways, towards the pylon, with a first down in hand. Defensive player tackles him and the ball fumbles out. It starts rolling and bouncing nearly parallel to the goalline, toward the pylon.

At the last second:

i) it takes a lucky bounce and just goes out of bounds, one foot before the pylon. Offense retains the ball, first and goal,

ii) it takes a lucky bounce and just goes out of bounds, one foot after the pylon. Turnover, defensive team gets the ball at the 20.


This is well and good, and perfectly consistent?

How dishonest can you be???

 

[MplsGopher]

Changing the rule wouldn't make the game better.

False statement.

Objectively better

 

[Ope3]

False statement.

Objectively better

Agree to disagree.

 

[Ope3]

Following scenario proves I'm correct and the current rule is false:

offensive player is running towards the end-zone sideways, towards the pylon, with a first down in hand. Defensive player tackles him and the ball fumbles out. It starts rolling and bouncing nearly parallel to the goalline, toward the pylon.

At the last second:

i) it takes a lucky bounce and just goes out of bounds, before the pylon. Offense retains the ball, first and goal,

ii) it takes a lucky bounce and just goes out of bounds, after the pylon. Turnover, defensive team gets the ball at the 20.


This is well and good, and perfectly consistent?

How dishonest can you be???

Don't cough it up. Problem solved.

 

[MplsGopher]

Don't cough it up.

Do cough it up. Make sure the ball goes out of bounds before the pylon.

Problem solved!

 

[Ope3]

Do cough it up. Make sure the ball goes out of bounds before the pylon.

Problem solved!

Now you're getting with it.

 

[MplsGopher]

I didn't think anyone would have anything even close to resembling an actual defense of why the rule is like it is.

The rule is fake, false, and an abomination to the game.


People like to defend "the way things are" just to be contrarian and anti-change. Not for a valid reason.

 

[Ope3]

I didn't think anyone would have anything even close to resembling an actual defense of why the rule is like it is.

The rule is fake, false, and an abomination to the game.


People like to defend "the way things are" just to be contrarian and anti-change. Not for a valid reason.

Is the rule different in the NCAA/HS or do they follow the NFLs lead?

I'm honestly not being contrarion. I have stated multiple times why I like it better, and think it's completely fair to reward the defense in that situation.

 

[MplsGopher]

it's completely fair to reward the defense in that situation.

It’s the exact same play. A lucky bounce one way or another results in polar opposite outcomes.

I have you and other defenders of that rule dead to rights.

 

[Ope3]

It’s the exact same play. A lucky bounce one way or another results in polar opposite outcomes.

I have you and other defenders of that rule dead to rights.

No, you don't. For the other 100 yds players don't risk losing the ball by lunging it towards the pylon or goal line. The do it in hopes obtaining a TD, I like adding the risk-reward element of a potential turnover.

Makes it more exciting. I like the rule. I hope they keep it. Protect the pigskin.

 

[MplsGopher]

For the other 100 yds players don't risk losing the ball by lunging it towards the pylon or goal line.

They lunge it forward in hopes of getting a first down, all the time. Every game.

 

[Ope3]

They lunge it forward in hopes of getting a first down, all the time. Every game.

Yes, but in the end zone if the nose of the ball crosses the plane it's immediately a TD, don't have to maintain possession to the ground. The rest of the field, still a live ball. Fair game.

Just one of several reasons why the End Zone is a different set of rules.

 

[GFBfan]

Offensive player catches ball at the 20, is immediately hit by a defender, but bounces off and regains his balance at the 25. Runs sideways for a moment and gets shoved out of bounds at the 23. Where do they spot the ball? Not the 20, but at the 23.
Now move this to the goal line. Where he catches it 1 ft into the end zone when he’s immediately hit and bounces off regaining his balance at the 5. Runs sideways and is pushed out at the 3? The call is a TD why?

 

[forever a gopher]

Watching the game Saturday, the Niners D-line was non-existent most of the game. Bosa and especially Young got manhandled by the Tackles and Young was being blocked by WR with ease quite often.

Chase Young is a younger version of Jadevon Clowney. All the physical tools in the world, crazy amounts of hype, taken in the top 2. And then is just merely average. As long as he stays healthy, he can collect an NFL paycheck for 10+ years, but he will likely always be thought of better than he actually is just based on where he was drafted. At least he didn't turn out to be as bad as Vernon Gholston.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

on the whole "goal line" thing - here's an idea:

if offense fumbles at the 1-yd line and ball goes out the end zone, then the other team gets the ball at the point of the fumble - make the other team start its possession at its own 1-yd line. don't reward the other team with 20 "free" yards of field position.

 

[Ope3]

on the whole "goal line" thing - here's an idea:

if offense fumbles at the 1-yd line and ball goes out the end zone, then the other team gets the ball at the point of the fumble - make the other team start its possession at its own 1-yd line. don't reward the other team with 20 "free" yards of field position.

That would be completely equitable.

 

[howeda7]

No, you don't. For the other 100 yds players don't risk losing the ball by lunging it towards the pylon or goal line. The do it in hopes obtaining a TD, I like adding the risk-reward element of a potential turnover.

Makes it more exciting. I like the rule. I hope they keep it. Protect the pigskin.

They do it all the time at the first down line too. For consistency, and to promote ball security, if you fumble over the line to gain and it goes out of bounds, the defense should get the ball.

 

[Ope3]

They do it all the time at the first down line too. For consistency, and to promote ball security, if you fumble over the line to gain and it goes out of bounds, the defense should get the ball.

Again, yes, but in the end zone if the nose of the ball crosses the plane it's immediately a TD, don't have to maintain possession to the ground. The rest of the field, still a live ball. Fair game.

Just one of several reasons why the End Zone is a different set of rules. Consistency does not need to be applied because of the difference.

If the rule is so stupid and egregious then why didn't the NFL change it years or decades ago? The answer is because enough folks in charge have thought it was just fine.

So do I. I hope they keep it.

 

[TNGophfan]

on the whole "goal line" thing - here's an idea:

if offense fumbles at the 1-yd line and ball goes out the end zone, then the other team gets the ball at the point of the fumble - make the other team start its possession at its own 1-yd line. don't reward the other team with 20 "free" yards of field position.

I like the "point of the fumble" idea, though I'm also fine with existing rule. Sometimes you benefit, sometimes you don't.

 

[MplsGopher]

They do it all the time at the first down line too. For consistency, and to promote ball security, if you fumble over the line to gain and it goes out of bounds, the defense should get the ball.

Or, they could just fix the rule book to do the right thing: offense retains possession, at the spot of the fumble.

 

[MplsGopher]

Yes, but in the end zone if the nose of the ball crosses the plane it's immediately a TD, don't have to maintain possession to the ground. The rest of the field, still a live ball. Fair game.

If you fumble the ball at the 1 yard line, the ball crosses the plane and goes into the end zone, but does not go out of bounds ...... then it's exactly the same thing as the rest of the field. Live ball, fair game, whoever recovers it gets it.

That proves the current rule is false.

 

[MplsGopher]

Offensive player catches ball at the 20, is immediately hit by a defender, but bounces off and regains his balance at the 25. Runs sideways for a moment and gets shoved out of bounds at the 23. Where do they spot the ball? Not the 20, but at the 23.
Now move this to the goal line. Where he catches it 1 ft into the end zone when he’s immediately hit and bounces off regaining his balance at the 5. Runs sideways and is pushed out at the 3? The call is a TD why?

You fumble the ball at your own 25, it rolls forward to your own 23, the defense falls on it. Ball goes to the defensive team.

You fumble the ball at your opponent's 1, it rolls forward to a yard into the end zone but does not go out of bounds, the defense falls on it. Ball goes to the defensive team.

Exactly the same, therefore proving the rule book should be fixed.

 

[MplsGopher]

If the rule is so stupid and egregious then why didn't the NFL change it years or decades ago?

If targeting is so bad for the game then why didn't the NFL change it decades ago?

 

[Ope3]

If targeting is so bad for the game then why didn't the NFL change it decades ago?

Uhh, because additional information on the long term effects of injuries in general and head trauma specifically affected the leagues decision to change the rules.