All Things 2023 Minnesota Vikings Off-Season Thread

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RememberMurray said:
You are saying, in so many words, that this entire team needs to be rebuilt. I agree wholeheartedly.

You could start that rebuild with one extremely expensive keystone (JJ, who happens to be a WR) and build on that. If you did it that way, it would likely be slow and tedious, and during that process you'd be watching JJ's prime years passing by while he was playing for a team slowly ascending the ladder.

The other way to do it is build from scratch. Trade JJ for more draft picks. That's the route I'd take, assuming he'd have as much trade value as I think he does. You can acquire more of the cheaper young players you so desperately need.

Just my opinion, but that's the route I'd take. If JJ was a young stud QB rather than a WR, I'd see it differently.
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I'm not really saying that. I'm saying each team can afford at least one massive contract (let's say >$25 million/year) without causing themselves big salary cap issues. There is no other player currently on the Vikings roster who I foresee them giving such a contract to. The only other player who currently makes that much is Cousins and they've clearly decided to move on from him. Hunter doesn't/shouldn't make that much at least not in Minnesota. Darrisaw is not at that level. Neither is anyone else on the team.

Unless they are planning to acquire Lamar Jackson or someone else via trade, there is no salary cap reason not to give JJ an extension. Further, since they still have control of him for 2 more years, they have more flexibility in how to structure it to keep the salary cap # from getting unmanageable in any one season.
 

howeda7 said:
I'm not really saying that. I'm saying each team can afford at least one massive contract (let's say >$25 million/year) without causing themselves big salary cap issues. There is no other player currently on the Vikings roster who I foresee them giving such a contract to. The only other player who currently makes that much is Cousins and they've clearly decided to move on from him. Hunter doesn't/shouldn't make that much at least not in Minnesota. Darrisaw is not at that level. Neither is anyone else on the team.

Unless they are planning to acquire Lamar Jackson or someone else via trade, there is no salary cap reason not to give JJ an extension. Further, since they still have control of him for 2 more years, they have more flexibility in how to structure it to keep the salary cap # from getting unmanageable in any one season.
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I agree that the only player on the roster worthy of a giant contract is JJ. And I think we both agree he'll get and deserve a giant contract, if not from the Vikings then from somebody else. It is inevitable.

But he's a WR, not a QB. That's my issue. JJ is a great young WR, and that's worth a lot. But it's simply not worth as much as a great QB is. It's not really fair, but it's the truth.

The Vikings have to find a great QB first, and then build around him. That's how I see it. And I think the best, quickest — and maybe the only — way to do that is to trade their most valuable asset (JJ) for a draft pick bonanza.
 

RememberMurray said:
I agree that the only player on the roster worthy of a giant contract is JJ. And I think we both agree he'll get and deserve a giant contract, if not from the Vikings then from somebody else. It is inevitable.

But he's a WR, not a QB. That's my issue. JJ is a great young WR, and that's worth a lot. But it's simply not worth as much as a great QB is. It's not really fair, but it's the truth.

The Vikings have to find a great QB first, and then build around him. That's how I see it. And I think the best, quickest — and maybe the only — way to do that is to trade their most valuable asset (JJ) for a draft pick bonanza.
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They do have to find a QB. But they've pretty clearly decided to draft one. That means, regardless of whether he's the next Mahomes or the next Darnold, he won't be very expensive until 2027-2029 depending on when they draft him etc. By that time, Jefferson's contract should be close enough to being done with that it won't cause them a massive issue.
 

RememberMurray said:
I agree that the only player on the roster worthy of a giant contract is JJ. And I think we both agree he'll get and deserve a giant contract, if not from the Vikings then from somebody else. It is inevitable.

But he's a WR, not a QB. That's my issue. JJ is a great young WR, and that's worth a lot. But it's simply not worth as much as a great QB is. It's not really fair, but it's the truth.

The Vikings have to find a great QB first, and then build around him. That's how I see it. And I think the best, quickest — and maybe the only — way to do that is to trade their most valuable asset (JJ) for a draft pick bonanza.
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Don’t put Descartes in front of Des 🐴
 

howeda7 said:
They do have to find a QB. But they've pretty clearly decided to draft one. That means, regardless of whether he's the next Mahomes or the next Darnold, he won't be very expensive until 2027-2029 depending on when they draft him etc. By that time, Jefferson's contract should be close enough to being done with that it won't cause them a massive issue.
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And I see the logic in that.

But if they do it that way, they'll miss an opportunity to get absolute top value (in the form of multiple high draft picks) in return for one (1) WR.

And I think this team will desperately need lots and lots of draft picks to do a proper rebuild. And there is no other way to quickly acquire lots and lots of high picks then to trade your best asset while he is at his peak value.

Sell high, buy low.
 
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RememberMurray said:
And I see the logic in that.

But if they do it that way, they'll miss an opportunity to get absolute top value (in the form of multiple high draft picks) in return for one (1) WR.

And I think this team will desperately need lots and lots of draft picks to do a proper rebuild. And there is no other way to acquire lots and lots of high picks that quickly than to trade your best asset when he is at his peak value.

Sell high, buy low.
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You're acting like they just went 4-13, not 13-4. Yes, they could use more draft picks, but trading their best player isn't the way to get them. If they're lucky one of the draft picks might turn out to be as good as JJ. If they're lucky.
 

howeda7 said:
You're acting like they just went 4-13, not 13-4. Yes, they could use more draft picks, but trading their best player isn't the way to get them. If they're lucky one of the draft picks might turn out to be as good as JJ. If they're lucky.
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If you think this team still has a decent base that can be stable and remain in their prime during a rebuild, even if that rebuilding process includes everybody remaining patient while developing a new, young QB, then, yes... that approach could make sense.

I guess I misunderstood one of your earlier posts. I thought you were saying that the team needs to replace quite a few players. My bad.

You and I may agree on some points, but I think we're fated to disagree on giving a huge contract to a WR. I'd never do it, under any circumstances. WR is not that high a priority. I understand I'm probably in the minority on that.
 

RememberMurray said:
If you think this team still has a decent base that can be stable and remain in their prime during a rebuild, even if that rebuilding process includes everybody remaining patient while developing a new, young QB, then, yes... that approach could make sense.

I guess I misunderstood one of your earlier posts. I thought you were saying that the team needs to replace quite a few players. My bad.

You and I may agree on some points, but I think we're fated to disagree on giving a huge contract to a WR. I'd never do it. I understand I'm probably in the minority on that.
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I'm not a big believer in the full rebuild in the NFL. You allocate your salary cap each year as best you can. The Vikings defense did need to be gutted of its older expensive players and they mostly did that. We'll see if they can rebuild it and still win this year. I think they can because 10-7 might win the division.
 





howeda7 said:
I'm not a big believer in the full rebuild in the NFL. You allocate your salary cap each year as best you can. The Vikings defense did need to be gutted of its older expensive players and they mostly did that. We'll see if they can rebuild it and still win this year. I think they can because 10-7 might win the division.
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There are people on this board, on KFAN, and in sports fandom in general who look down their noses at winning "mere" division titles.

Just sayin'.
 

howeda7 said:
You're acting like they just went 4-13, not 13-4. Yes, they could use more draft picks, but trading their best player isn't the way to get them. If they're lucky one of the draft picks might turn out to be as good as JJ. If they're lucky.
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Trading their best player is the only way to get a large number of high draft picks while giving up only one player.

That is an opportunity.
 
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howeda7 said:
Exactly how many draft picks do you think they'd get?
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It's hard to say. But he is the NFL Offensive Player of the Year.

I guess it all depends on how high a value other teams' General Managers put on a stud young WR.

Judging by most folks' assessment here on GopherHole, JJ is extremely valuable. Right? Maybe the Vikings could get other teams bidding against each other.
 
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There seems to be an attitude among some fans that if the Vikes let Cousins go, that means a drop in production at the QB position.

and yes, that is possible. the Vikes have swung and missed on young QB's in the past.

but that was under a different regime.

you have to at least consider the possibility that the Vikes GM and HC are able to identify and draft a young QB who can be as good as Cousins - if not better.

that is the holy grail - find a young QB whom you can win with while paying him on a rookie level contract. because that gives the team the cap room to surround that young QB with better depth and talent.

I reject the notion that Cousins is the best the Vikes can possibly hope for at QB. I believe that you should at least explore the possibility of finding someone who can be better at a lower salary. If you don't swing for the fences, you will never hit a home run.
 

RememberMurray said:
Sorry, kg21, but I'm not in the mood to follow you down one of your rabbit holes today.

Talk to someone else, please.
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BOX

I do love that you have an opinion on what the Vikings should do at qb. Ain't an opinion on qb just the greatest thing ever. LMAO
 
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short ornery norwegian said:
There seems to be an attitude among some fans that if the Vikes let Cousins go, that means a drop in production at the QB position.

and yes, that is possible. the Vikes have swung and missed on young QB's in the past.

but that was under a different regime.

you have to at least consider the possibility that the Vikes GM and HC are able to identify and draft a young QB who can be as good as Cousins - if not better.

that is the holy grail - find a young QB whom you can win with while paying him on a rookie level contract. because that gives the team the cap room to surround that young QB with better depth and talent.

I reject the notion that Cousins is the best the Vikes can possibly hope for at QB. I believe that you should at least explore the possibility of finding someone who can be better at a lower salary. If you don't swing for the fences, you will never hit a home run.
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I didn't see a single person here say Cousins is the best the Vikings can hope for.

I said keep Cousins for 2023, because it makes sense for the present. But they need to rebuild, and he won't be a part of their long-term plans. The team must find their QB of the future.

That being said, I do hope that when the team drafts their young QB of the future, the fans are patient with him.
 

RememberMurray said:
It's hard to say. But he is the NFL Offensive Player of the Year.

I guess it all depends on how high a value other teams' General Managers put on a stud young WR.

Judging by most folks' assessment here on GopherHole, JJ is extremely valuable. Right? Maybe the Vikings could get other teams bidding against each other.
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Unless you're getting 3 + first round picks or you can't keep him for salary cap reasons, I'm not trading him. The cap is not an issue now and won't be for a few years. And I doubt you're getting that much of a haul.
 

howeda7 said:
Unless you're getting 3 + first round picks or you can't keep him for salary cap reasons, I'm not trading him. The cap is not an issue now and won't be for a few years. And I doubt you're getting that much of a haul.
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Here are the reasons I think he would in fact bring in a "haul"...

— He's extremely young with a long career ahead of him.
— He's a great face for your franchise. The smile, the great attitude, a coach's dream, etc. And... The Griddy! A guaranteed fan favorite.
— He has never been seriously injured, to my knowledge.
— His ability is undeniable. He's a playmaker.

Here are the reasons I think the Vikings should trade him...

— The Vikings will need to first find and then develop a new QB. That process will possibly take considerable time.
— As the new QB learns on the fly, the growth phase will to some degree lessen JJ's positive impact. All playmakers depend on their QB getting them the ball.
— The team is aging, and needs more than a few upgrades at more than a few key positions. QB and offensive line. Defensive line, secondary, and linebacker. They need draft picks. Lots of them.
— Jefferson (as you yourself said) is the only asset they have to deal that carries such a high trade value.

This last one is the key one, to me: JJ wants a big, big payday. He deserves one. But I would not tie up too much of my team's cap space on a wide receiver. The Vikings have too many other needs.

As I said before, I know I'm in the minority on this. The kids love their WRs. Video games, and such like.
 
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Here's a random thought...

I have no idea what Cincinnati's cap situation is. But might the Bengals be intrigued by the idea of JJ and Burrow making the LSU connection in Cincinnati?

They might give up quite a lot for that...
 
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howeda7 said:
I'm not a big believer in the full rebuild in the NFL. You allocate your salary cap each year as best you can. The Vikings defense did need to be gutted of its older expensive players and they mostly did that. We'll see if they can rebuild it and still win this year. I think they can because 10-7 might win the division.
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"Still win"

"Winning" the division doesn't get you jack squat, other than tougher match-ups the next season. And one guaranteed home playoff game, which is nice for fans ... except when you lose.
 

RememberMurray said:
Here's a random thought...

I have no idea what Cincinnati's cap situation is. But might the Bengals be intrigued by the idea of JJ and Burrow making the LSU connection in Cincinnati?

They might give up quite a lot for that...
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The answer to your question is the franchise QB will always be kept/paid first over a WR. The Vikings are in a situation to where they can pay JJ now, then hope to draft a good QB who will be on a rookie deal until they likely have to pay JJ again.

Cincinnati is in a much worse situation than us long term. They already have the Burrow and Chase LSU connection, plus Tee Higgins, why would they want or need JJ too? They will have a hard enough time paying just Burrow and Chase long term and having enough money left over for everyone else.
 

RememberMurray said:
Here are the reasons I think he would in fact bring in a "haul"...
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I can actually understand your thought process on allocating such a large cap percentage to Jefferson, but as a comp this is the "haul" that KC got for Hill from Miami:

- 1st Rounder
- 2nd Rounder
- Two 4th Rounders
- 6th Rounder

Not sure how much more JJ would command, as they are relatively comparable.
 

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