All Things 2023-2024 Minnesota Timberwolves In-Season Thread

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GopherWeatherGuy said:
Completely disagree on KAT. He hasn't proven that, he's currently in his prime, and in his biggest playoff series of his life, he has been mostly terrible. Even last night when he was good offensively, he still committed dumb foul after dumb foul. No matter how many times Ant or Finch or whoever tells him to stop committing dumb fouls, it never changes. That's not what a winning player does.

We will be up against the max no matter what next season. Shorter/expiring contracts help us out significantly beyond next season compared to what it's going to be like keeping KAT's 50+ million salary for the next 4 years.

I think you're just taking my Kahn comment too literally. I wasn't thinking about it as what would Kahn specifically do, just as what any bad GM, like Kahn, would do and continue to think KAT is going to change with more time.
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The fact is that if Ant played as well as he did against Denver or Phoenix in this series, we are up 3-1 and probably even money on winning an NBA championship. He played like a #1 in those series, he has not in this series. Doesn't that, by definition, mean that KAT is good enough to be the #2 on a championship team? Even now, without a #1, we're one Luka bomb/Naz barely miss from being 2-2 with KAT being our second best player.


At that time, Ant will be a max player and we'll be back in cap hell. If we want to suddenly have cap space to sign free agents, we need to let Conley expire, trade KAT for shorter expiring contracts and let Rudy walk. We then destroyed our team and 4 years of Ant's prime on building cap flexibility to attempt to sign a player better than KAT. Good luck.

I think bad GMs undervalue imperfect players who are really good. They trade KG for a pu pu platter because he doesn't score enough downlow. They move on from Kevin Love because of his imperfections. Because he can't shoot, they trade Rubio for nothing to sign Jeff Teague.
 

Gophers1992 said:
Recent #2’s on championship teams include Jamal Murray, Khris Middleton, Kyle Lowry, and an aging Klay Thompson. These guys are not vastly superior to KAT
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KAT has been much better for us this post season than Lowry was for Toronto in their championship and much better than Klay was in GS's last championship.

Middleton, despite playing with Giannis, has only had 1 long run in the playoffs. I suppose that's either Gianis' fault or Middleton's?
 






Bob_Loblaw said:
The fact is that if Ant played as well as he did against Denver or Phoenix in this series, we are up 3-1 and probably even money on winning an NBA championship. He played like a #1 in those series, he has not in this series. Doesn't that, by definition, mean that KAT is good enough to be the #2 on a championship team? Even now, without a #1, we're one Luka bomb/Naz barely miss from being 2-2 with KAT being our second best player.


At that time, Ant will be a max player and we'll be back in cap hell. If we want to suddenly have cap space to sign free agents, we need to let Conley expire, trade KAT for shorter expiring contracts and let Rudy walk. We then destroyed our team and 4 years of Ant's prime on building cap flexibility to attempt to sign a player better than KAT. Good luck.

I think bad GMs undervalue imperfect players who are really good. They trade KG for a pu pu platter because he doesn't score enough downlow. They move on from Kevin Love because of his imperfections. Because he can't shoot, they trade Rubio for nothing to sign Jeff Teague.
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Ant is still playing significantly better than KAT in this series. And he's 22. KAT is 28. Ant spent a lot of time guarding Luka last game and Luka had his worst game of the series. KAT has been getting abused by Gafford and a 20 year old rookie in Lively until Lively got injured.

You and others keep acting like if the Wolves traded KAT, they'll have a gaping hole in his place. They already have his replacement in Reid. He's younger, cheaper, and when he has filled in for KAT, the Wolves have a slightly better record and he puts up similar offensive numbers.

If they move on from KAT, Ant will be the only max player. How is that cap hell compared to having two max players? It's not destroying the team when you have Ant, Naz, McDaniels, plus whoever they can trade for/sign. You're failing to project our young core, plus they could still keep Rudy on a cheaper contract after his current deal expires.

If the Wolves traded KAT straight up for the aforementioned Murray or Middleton today, or Lowry or Klay from years past and still have Naz Reid, you seriously don't think that's a better team than what they have today?

KG was never going to win as a #1 here. The Wolves also didn't have his replacement when they traded him. He won a championship as the 2nd/3rd option behind Pierce/Allen. Kevin Love was never going to win a championship as a #1 here, he won one as the 3rd option behind LeBron/Kyrie. Wiggins was a max player who was never going to win a championship here as a 1st or 2nd option, he won one as the 4th/5th option with GS.

Barring a miracle comeback in this series, which I hope happens, KAT is never going to win a championship as a #2. He could as a 3rd option, but his contract likely won't allow that to happen. I don't think KAT will ever win one is his career. I do think Ant will at some point whether it's with the Wolves or not.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Ant is still playing significantly better than KAT in this series. And he's 22. KAT is 28. Ant spent a lot of time guarding Luka last game and Luka had his worst game of the series. KAT has been getting abused by Gafford and a 20 year old rookie in Lively until Lively got injured.

You and others keep acting like if the Wolves traded KAT, they'll have a gaping hole in his place. They already have his replacement in Reid. He's younger, cheaper, and when he has filled in for KAT, the Wolves have a slightly better record and he puts up similar offensive numbers.

If they move on from KAT, Ant will be the only max player. How is that cap hell compared to having two max players? It's not destroying the team when you have Ant, Naz, McDaniels, plus whoever they can trade for/sign. You're failing to project our young core, plus they could still keep Rudy on a cheaper contract after his current deal expires.

If the Wolves traded KAT straight up for the aforementioned Murray or Middleton today, or Lowry or Klay from years past and still have Naz Reid, you seriously don't think that's a better team than what they have today?

KG was never going to win as a #1 here. The Wolves also didn't have his replacement when they traded him. He won a championship as the 2nd/3rd option behind Pierce/Allen. Kevin Love was never going to win a championship as a #1 here, he won one as the 3rd option behind LeBron/Kyrie. Wiggins was a max player who was never going to win a championship here as a 1st or 2nd option, he won one as the 4th/5th option with GS.

Barring a miracle comeback in this series, which I hope happens, KAT is never going to win a championship as a #2. He could as a 3rd option, but his contract likely won't allow that to happen. I don't think KAT will ever win one is his career. I do think Ant will at some point whether it's with the Wolves or not.
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I never argued that Ant isn't playing better than KAT. I'm saying that we lack a true #1. Ant, in this series, is much further away from being a true #1 than KAT is to being a true #2.

If you think KAT is being abused by Gafford and Lively, frankly, you haven't been watching the series.

Lets make the safe assumption that we max Ant.

As far as the cap, it's really simple math.
2024-2025 - We would still be $48 million OVER the cap if we completely removed KATs salary.
2025-2026 - We will still (likely) be $50 million OVER the cap if we completely remove KATs salary - this assumes Rudy opts in, Naz opts in (that'll likely be cheaper than resigning him).
2026-2027 - CAP SPACE - Now, if Naz is resigned for ~$20 million per season, we will already have about $100 million tied up in Ant, Naz, and McDaniels. We would have about a 100 million dollars to fill out the roster (10-11 players) and find a true #2 willing to come to MN.

This is not even including whatever we get back with KAT. So absolute cap hell until 2026-2027, and then it all depends.



Lowry was worse for Toronto's run than Conley, so yeah, we'd be much worse if we traded KAT for Lowry in that year. We'd also have been much worse if we traded KAT for Klay in GS's last championship run. KAT has been a much better basketball player.
 



Bob_Loblaw said:
I never argued that Ant isn't playing better than KAT. I'm saying that we lack a true #1. Ant, in this series, is much further away from being a true #1 than KAT is to being a true #2.

If you think KAT is being abused by Gafford and Lively, frankly, you haven't been watching the series.

Lets make the safe assumption that we max Ant.

As far as the cap, it's really simple math.
2024-2025 - We would still be $48 million OVER the cap if we completely removed KATs salary.
2025-2026 - We will still (likely) be $50 million OVER the cap if we completely remove KATs salary - this assumes Rudy opts in, Naz opts in (that'll likely be cheaper than resigning him).
2026-2027 - CAP SPACE - Now, if Naz is resigned for ~$20 million per season, we will already have about $100 million tied up in Ant, Naz, and McDaniels. We would have about a 100 million dollars to fill out the roster (10-11 players) and find a true #2 willing to come to MN.

This is not even including whatever we get back with KAT. So absolute cap hell until 2026-2027, and then it all depends.



Lowry was worse for Toronto's run than Conley, so yeah, we'd be much worse if we traded KAT for Lowry in that year. We'd also have been much worse if we traded KAT for Klay in GS's last championship run. KAT has been a much better basketball player.
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Ant is being loaded up on like no one else in either series. Tatum and Brown are many times going one on one as they have others who have to be guarded all over the floor. Kyrie is almost always one on one, due to what Luka sees.

Ant has guys waiting on him like no one else does.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I never argued that Ant isn't playing better than KAT. I'm saying that we lack a true #1. Ant, in this series, is much further away from being a true #1 than KAT is to being a true #2.

If you think KAT is being abused by Gafford and Lively, frankly, you haven't been watching the series.

Lets make the safe assumption that we max Ant.

As far as the cap, it's really simple math.
2024-2025 - We would still be $48 million OVER the cap if we completely removed KATs salary.
2025-2026 - We will still (likely) be $50 million OVER the cap if we completely remove KATs salary - this assumes Rudy opts in, Naz opts in (that'll likely be cheaper than resigning him).
2026-2027 - CAP SPACE - Now, if Naz is resigned for ~$20 million per season, we will already have about $100 million tied up in Ant, Naz, and McDaniels. We would have about a 100 million dollars to fill out the roster (10-11 players) and find a true #2 willing to come to MN.

This is not even including whatever we get back with KAT. So absolute cap hell until 2026-2027, and then it all depends.



Lowry was worse for Toronto's run than Conley, so yeah, we'd be much worse if we traded KAT for Lowry in that year. We'd also have been much worse if we traded KAT for Klay in GS's last championship run. KAT has been a much better basketball player.
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Ant is a true #1, saying he's not is an absurd take. He's only 22, and even though he hasn't been as good this series because Dallas is doing everything they can to take him out, he's still their leading scorer and had a borderline triple doubles in multiple games this series. Plus he's defending their best players.

I don't know what you've been watching if you think Lively and Gafford haven't been abusing KAT. If you want to throw Rudy in that mix then fine, but Rudy has been a + when he's been on the court in every game except for game 3.

We already maxed Ant. So you'd rather keep KAT and stay more than 100 million over the cap instead of half of that? That makes zero sense.

You're failing to project Ant, Naz, and McDaniels growth at 22, 23, and 24 years old. There is no more growth with KAT, he is what he is. He's only 6 months younger than Jokic, he's older than guys like Luka, Murray, Tatum, and Brown.
 


Just tuning in here now. I'm actually kind of optimistic...which is usually a bad sign lol. As far as things like TWolves playoff games, that is.

Looks like the enthusiasm level here is a bit down at the moment. That's okay.

I didn't keep up on this thread. But did I just see (directly above) that Bob says Ant isn't a true #1 ?
 




Charles Barkley has the Timberwolves blowing out Dallas tonight.

"I'll be shocked if the Wolves don't win tonight... I expect them to blow this team out tonight; I really do."

 

Doncic from the parking lot is unreal.
 


What did Gobert do to get a technical? He put his arms up and walked away!
 

Someone need to punch Doncic in the face and tell him to shut up when he looking at the fans.
 




I mostly follow online. But I'm real good at watching a TV or gamecast while the Mavericks score 10 straight. I did it in the game we lost by 1 too. And of course I watched the final sequence.
 






I was irritated for 3 days. Luka hurling F-words & B-words added to it.

I was in front of the TV at my gym. Like I try to say & do for the last couple few years finally...we need more gym ourselves and less watching other athletes and getting irritated.
 


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