All Things 2022 Minnesota Vikings Off-Season Thread

Donate To GopherHole



On Flores, it seems he was never eye-to-eye with the GM or owner on Tua. He wanted them to draft Herbert (good call), started Fitzpatrick last year as much as possible, which upset them and then tried to get them to trade for Watson in the off-season.
 

howeda7 said:
There was chatter at one point. And he got rumored for USC as well. Now that they snuck into the play-offs I doubt he's going anywhere. Still it can't hurt to dangle Kirk Cousins in front of them and make them say no. 33 TD's 7 Int's!
Click to expand...
That "rumor" was nothing more than former USC alum Carson Palmer just putting out a wishlist on the Dan Patrick Show. If anything, Tomlin's response has me thinking he's not going anywhere.
 


GopherWeatherGuy said:
The Vikings aren't even close to a laughing stock.
Click to expand...
Perhaps I used the wrong word. We're clearly not respected as when I talk to people about the Vikings, a comment is usually made, then they start laughing. I've lost a lot of respect for Zimmer quite a while ago. Extremely impatient with rookies, particularly Carlson.
 

I'm hoping with the GM change, the Purple and KFAN will mature to a professional working relationship.

A lot to ask of course.

But hopefully, coverage of the Vikings doesn't need bible verses recited every week.
 

howeda7 said:
I agree on trading Cook (and Cousins). Those two moves will give them a good amount of cap room. They should bring Hunter back if he will accept a reasonable contract re-structure. I think Griffen is done in the NFL or at least as a Viking...
Click to expand...
The only two untouchables in the roster should be Jefferson and Kendricks IMO
 

Some guy said:
The only two untouchables in the roster should be Jefferson and Kendricks IMO
Click to expand...
I would say just Jefferson at this point.
Kendricks has been thought to be a bit overrated, and he's not young. Drafted year after Anthony Barr.
If you want to keep him, fine, but not an untouchable.
 



howeda7 said:
He may be right, but I wish he wouldn't write this stuff. It just makes 50% of the fan base reflexively question the hire. See Johnson, Ben.
Click to expand...
His conclusion could be correct…. His trying to back fill % of black players to coaches is as dumb as it gets.

it assumes what makes a coach is being in the NFL. Instead, the stat is likely more accurate in reverse. The fact that so many black players make the NFL probably reduces the pool of those that turn towards coaching. They don’t need to coach to stay in the game. The crappy guys need to do that.
 

Face The Facts said:
I would say just Jefferson at this point.
Kendricks has been thought to be a bit overrated, and he's not young. Drafted year after Anthony Barr.
If you want to keep him, fine, but not an untouchable.
Click to expand...
He is the only member of the defense currently playing at a high level AND also not grossly below his contract

I think you can rebuild in two years not three. If you’re doing a 3 year rebuild he is probably too old.

The real question is:
Who is on the team and could be playing their position on a contender for the number they are worth the next time you are going to be a contender.

theilen too expensive for an aging wideout
Same with smith
Same with cousins
Same with cook


obviously you don’t get rid of everyone but those are 4 guys you should offload while they have value (if they have value)

I actually wouldn’t even be opposed to getting rid of Jefferson if the deal was right
 

Some guy said:
He is the only member of the defense currently playing at a high level AND also not grossly below his contract

I think you can rebuild in two years not three. If you’re doing a 3 year rebuild he is probably too old.

The real question is:
Who is on the team and could be playing their position on a contender for the number they are worth the next time you are going to be a contender.

theilen too expensive for an aging wideout
Same with smith
Same with cousins
Same with cook


obviously you don’t get rid of everyone but those are 4 guys you should offload while they have value (if they have value)

I actually wouldn’t even be opposed to getting rid of Jefferson if the deal was right
Click to expand...
Every guy you mentioned should definitely be traded or dumped. They should so dump Pierce.

They really need a GM who can draft well. Otherwise, whatever draft picks they get in a trade won't be worth anything. Our four 3rd Round picks all crapping out is almost unforgivable.
 

I assume the plan is to hire a GM first and then the HC? Seems like the GM needs to get his own guy.
 





Ope3 said:
That "rumor" was nothing more than former USC alum Carson Palmer just putting out a wishlist on the Dan Patrick Show. If anything, Tomlin's response has me thinking he's not going anywhere.
Click to expand...
Palmer was on the search committee. Don't think he was ever going there, but he was definitely on their wish list.
 

Face The Facts said:
I would say just Jefferson at this point.
Kendricks has been thought to be a bit overrated, and he's not young. Drafted year after Anthony Barr.
If you want to keep him, fine, but not an untouchable.
Click to expand...
Trades are rare in the NFL. So "just Jefferson" is a bit over the top.

I wouldn't trade: O'Neill, Darrisaw, Cleveland, Mattison, Jefferson, Osborne, Wonnum, Vigil, Bynum. Maybe a couple others.
 

God Help us all if this is true. (I very much doubt it.)

 

Mark Wilf did a zoom interview. among his comments:

"We believe that we can be super competitive in 2022......This is not in the mode of a rebuild."

now, maybe he has to say that to keep the fan base happy.

Personally, I don't see it. if they keep Cousins - even if they re-work his contract, they will still be strapped for cap space. and the only way they clear cap space is to release some of the higher-paid veterans, or somehow get a number of players to re-negotiate their contracts.

and that does not address the holes in the secondary, O-line and other positions.

Not to mention what to do with Hunter at DE - expensive and injured the last 2 years.

I think the best way forward is to take a step backwards, clear space, get under the cap, trade Cousins, and re-load through the draft. maybe sign a stop-gap QB for a year or two.
 

TruthSeeker said:
Every guy you mentioned should definitely be traded or dumped. They should so dump Pierce.

They really need a GM who can draft well. Otherwise, whatever draft picks they get in a trade won't be worth anything. Our four 3rd Round picks all crapping out is almost unforgivable.
Click to expand...
Have you ever looked at how other GMs draft performance?


​

The only people that think he’s bad are Vikings fans and Chip Scroggins.


​

I ised to try to make your argument; then went searching for the data.

Check out national NFL reporters, serious draftniks, and the analytic nerds. The lowest I’ve ever seen him was 7th. The highest was best All time…. Not making that argument, but will say it was the best supported piece on the subject I’ve ever seen. Up until around 2018 he was always in the top 3.

not my argument, that is pros argument for him.

What I can recall is his top and second tier players are double the expected amount for an NFL GM since 2012.

All in all, if you’re hoping for better, well, probabilities would suggest we will draft far worse.
 



howeda7 said:
On Flores, it seems he was never eye-to-eye with the GM or owner on Tua. He wanted them to draft Herbert (good call), started Fitzpatrick last year as much as possible, which upset them and then tried to get them to trade for Watson in the off-season.
Click to expand...
Flores is apparently very abrasive and didn't play nice in the sandbox, from everything I've heard. Personally I kind of like that, a guy that will tell you the way it is. Some owners and upper management are not receptive to that though.

As far as the Vikings OL, ironically, they are in a position to be a decent OL if a few things break their way. It wouldn't shock me if 4 or even all 5 are better next year than they were this year; they are all pretty young for the most part.

I like Bowles or Hackett, and would certainly listen to Flores. It was with the Jets, but at least Bowles has done the gig before, and spent some time under Bruce Arians; Bruce is an asshole, but I would imagine Bowles has learned a lot from him over these last several years. Flores got a raw deal in Miami. Tua can't play, like seriously Tua cannot play at all. Tough to deal with that for any HC, having to work with a QB that has shown he just can't play the position at a high level.
 

atsgopher said:
Have you ever looked at how other GMs draft performance?





​

The only people that think he’s bad are Vikings fans and Chip Scroggins.





​

I ised to try to make your argument; then went searching for the data.

Check out national NFL reporters, serious draftniks, and the analytic nerds. The lowest I’ve ever seen him was 7th. The highest was best All time…. Not making that argument, but will say it was the best supported piece on the subject I’ve ever seen. Up until around 2018 he was always in the top 3.

not my argument, that is pros argument for him.

What I can recall is his top and second tier players are double the expected amount for an NFL GM since 2012.

All in all, if you’re hoping for better, well, probabilities would suggest we will draft far worse.
Click to expand...
I don't buy any of that. All I need to do is actually look at who he's drafted, especially the last few years. I've posted this before, and I'll do it again here.

Below is a list of every defensive player drafted after Hunter. It's awful.

Mackenzie Alexander
Kentrell Brothers
Stephen Weatherly
Jayson Kearse
Jaleel Johnson
Ben Gedion
Ifeadi Odenigbo
Elijah Lee
Jack Tocho
Mike Hughes
Jalyn Holmes
Ade Arunna
Devante Downs
Cameron Smith
Marcus Epps
Jeff Gladney
Cameron Dantzler
DJ Wonnum
James Lynch
Troy Dye
Harrison Hand
Josh Metellus
Kenny Willekes
Brian Cole
Chaz Surratt
Patrick Jones
Camryn Bynum
Janarious Robinson
Jalen Twyman
 

Some guy said:
The only two untouchables in the roster should be Jefferson and Kendricks IMO
Click to expand...
Kendricks is so weak against the run I could cry. He's great running sideline to sideline making tackles 8 and 10 yards downfield, though.
 

TruthSeeker said:
I don't buy any of that. All I need to do is actually look at who he's drafted, especially the last few years. I've posted this before, and I'll do it again here.

Below is a list of every defensive player drafted after Hunter. It's awful.

Mackenzie Alexander
Kentrell Brothers
Stephen Weatherly
Jayson Kearse
Jaleel Johnson
Ben Gedion
Ifeadi Odenigbo
Elijah Lee
Jack Tocho
Mike Hughes
Jalyn Holmes
Ade Arunna
Devante Downs
Cameron Smith
Marcus Epps
Jeff Gladney
Cameron Dantzler
DJ Wonnum
James Lynch
Troy Dye
Harrison Hand
Josh Metellus
Kenny Willekes
Brian Cole
Chaz Surratt
Patrick Jones
Camryn Bynum
Janarious Robinson
Jalen Twyman
Click to expand...
Those are the players the vikings drafted since Danielle Hunter in 2014. You build through the draft. We haven't drafted one above average defender in 8 years. That is horrific.

To top it off, they have been trying to fix the offensive line in that same time period.

Spielman was so bad in these last eight years, that it's a crime.

Zimmer had run it's course, but Spielman gave him nothing. On the other hand, maybe Zimmer was in on the defensive picks himself.

At any rate, right now, we have little defensive talent and they signed the aging defensive vets to long deals.

It's a cluster.

I hope whoever they bring in will do so with a long range perspective. We are in rebuild mode now due to horrific drafting on the offensive line and defense.
 

howeda7 said:
God Help us all if this is true. (I very much doubt it.)

Click to expand...
Hiring Lane Kiffin as the Vikings HC would be entertaining, but also could turn into a big dumpster fire, very quickly.
 


I think there's a near 0% chance that Lane Kiffin will be hired, but I wouldn't be all that angry if he was. He has proven time and again that he is a very good college coach and a very good offensive coach. He was only given 1.25 seasons as the Raiders coach at 31 years old, and has likely grown up a bit since. He's still only 46.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
I think there's a near 0% chance that Lane Kiffin will be hired, but I wouldn't be all that angry if he was. He has proven time and again that he is a very good college coach and a very good offensive coach. He was only given 1.25 seasons as the Raiders coach at 31 years old, and has likely grown up a bit since. He's still only 46.
Click to expand...
Kiffin is a clown show. God bless the internet and Twitter where some rando can throw something out as pure speculation, and people get riled up about it. Kiffin will last no more than 2 more seasons as Ole Miss, but I agree with you that there is an almost zero chance he's here. The Wilfs actually seem like they run a pretty straight ship, and Kiffin is way too much of a wild card. Plus, the way he runs fast and loose means he's more tailored for the college game with less oversight. Raiders it made total sense, not so much here.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom