All Things 2022 Minnesota Vikings Off-Season Thread

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I'm sure O'Connell is a good offensive coach, but will he be a good head coach? I was hoping for more of a CEO type who'd be focused on the bigger picture of team building and game situation rather than immersed in the offense, but we now have who we have.

Ultimately the success of this hire won't depend on the offensive scheme he runs but instead on whether he's better at the things Zimmer was fired because of: in-game tactics and decisions, including the use of data to inform decisions; measured and balanced roster decisions (like not cutting 5th-round draft picks because of one bad game, who go on to potential hall-of-fame careers elsewhere); and avoiding having 7 coordinators on one side of the ball in 6 years, or whatever it was; among other things.
 


I'll just close with one more thing at the moment. My observation has been that it takes uncommon people in both GM and head coach roles to win a championship. The Vikings had that with Finks and Grant, and that's the last time they had uncommonly good people in both roles simultaneously. I think both Spielmann and Zimmer are above average at what they do, but neither rise to the level of uncommon in my book. They had their chance. It was time to clean house.

The proof will be in the pudding with the new team, but there's reason for hope if not optimism. Kwesi seems uncommon in his first impression, but it'll come down to performance for both of these gentlemen in jobs they've never held before. Looking forward to this.
 


@Bad Gopher I think you're apply too much of a college perspective here, which is obviously easy for us to do with Fleck.

These are (mostly) not 18-21 year olds, they're grown men. They don't need, and would probably reject, a big sweeping "culture" (all the stuff not having to do with football).

We don't need a salesman to sell the program to recruits/portal guys. The GM handles all that and it mostly comes down to money and playing time situation (and scheme, etc.).

In the NFL, I think the tactics and schematics of the game itself matters far, far more. You pick a scheme/identity, you try to get the best players who can play that scheme well, and you look at/gameplan for matchups with your guys in your scheme vs the other team's guys in their scheme.

In college, recruiting and developing talent is such a huge part of it, and can genuine account for a good chunk of wins where you simply out-talent the other team. You mostly can't do that in the NFL.



At the end of the day, if you win, you win. I don't care if you mumble and stumble at the media podium. Who cares. If you lose, it doesn't matter what you say or how well you say it.


In the NFL, I think it's a good thing for the HC to be a coordinator. My opinion.
 

Spaulding!No! said:
It appears that everyone n kfan was wrong.
Click to expand...
They weren't alone.

I will say on Tuesday Doogie via SKOR Tuesday did say that it was not definitive that Harbaugh was the choice, that it was still to be determined.
 



Breakin' The Plane said:
People in my circles wanted nothing to do with Eric Bienemy because "he doesn't even call the plays", but now are thrilled with this probable hire.
OK, then.
Click to expand...
There have been a fair amount of black candidates both considered and hired since Bienemy has been in the mix; there has to be something there that the guy on the street isn't privy to. I know some people want to summarily dismiss his legal troubles from his past but maybe it's enough to scare off enough.

I'm not in those interview rooms, I have no idea what's happening; it's abundantly clear though that being a really great Coordinator doesn't automatically make you a good HC. Guys like Zimmer and Don Martindale went years and years and years without getting an HC sniff, Martindale still hasn't and he's a brilliant defensive mind.
 

Gophers_4life said:
@Bad Gopher I think you're apply too much of a college perspective here, which is obviously easy for us to do with Fleck.

These are (mostly) not 18-21 year olds, they're grown men. They don't need, and would probably reject, a big sweeping "culture" (all the stuff not having to do with football).

We don't need a salesman to sell the program to recruits/portal guys. The GM handles all that and it mostly comes down to money and playing time situation (and scheme, etc.).

In the NFL, I think the tactics and schematics of the game itself matters far, far more. You pick a scheme/identity, you try to get the best players who can play that scheme well, and you look at/gameplan for matchups with your guys in your scheme vs the other team's guys in their scheme.

In college, recruiting and developing talent is such a huge part of it, and can genuine account for a good chunk of wins where you simply out-talent the other team. You mostly can't do that in the NFL.



At the end of the day, if you win, you win. I don't care if you mumble and stumble at the media podium. Who cares. If you lose, it doesn't matter what you say or how well you say it.


In the NFL, I think it's a good thing for the HC to be a coordinator. My opinion.
Click to expand...
I think you're downplaying the importance of being able to connect with your players. I think that's what BG was getting at. While a coach may not be recruiting like a college coach does, we see countless stories every year of NFL coaches who "lose the locker room", etc.

I'm not saying O'Connell can or can't do that, just commenting on the importance of people skills and the CEO type that BG refers to.
 

Gophers1992 said:
I think you're downplaying the importance of being able to connect with your players. I think that's what BG was getting at. While a coach may not be recruiting like a college coach does, we see countless stories every year of NFL coaches who "lose the locker room", etc.

I'm not saying O'Connell can or can't do that, just commenting on the importance of people skills and the CEO type that BG refers to.
Click to expand...
Andy Reid, Bill Belichick? I also have no idea what they're like with their players, but seem the cold calculating types?

So let me frame it as: it is bad to have bad connections with your players, but you don't necessarily have to have good connections with your players.
 

Gophers_4life said:
@Bad Gopher I think you're apply too much of a college perspective here, which is obviously easy for us to do with Fleck.

These are (mostly) not 18-21 year olds, they're grown men. They don't need, and would probably reject, a big sweeping "culture" (all the stuff not having to do with football).

We don't need a salesman to sell the program to recruits/portal guys. The GM handles all that and it mostly comes down to money and playing time situation (and scheme, etc.).

In the NFL, I think the tactics and schematics of the game itself matters far, far more. You pick a scheme/identity, you try to get the best players who can play that scheme well, and you look at/gameplan for matchups with your guys in your scheme vs the other team's guys in their scheme.

In college, recruiting and developing talent is such a huge part of it, and can genuine account for a good chunk of wins where you simply out-talent the other team. You mostly can't do that in the NFL.



At the end of the day, if you win, you win. I don't care if you mumble and stumble at the media podium. Who cares. If you lose, it doesn't matter what you say or how well you say it.


In the NFL, I think it's a good thing for the HC to be a coordinator. My opinion.
Click to expand...
Wow great post
 



Wait! Leber who is usually super busy is on kfan with PA. He will have the answers. Leber is to the vikes what Denny hocking is to the twins.
 

Ogee Oglethorpe said:
There have been a fair amount of black candidates both considered and hired since Bienemy has been in the mix; there has to be something there that the guy on the street isn't privy to. I know some people want to summarily dismiss his legal troubles from his past but maybe it's enough to scare off enough.

I'm not in those interview rooms, I have no idea what's happening; it's abundantly clear though that being a really great Coordinator doesn't automatically make you a good HC. Guys like Zimmer and Don Martindale went years and years and years without getting an HC sniff, Martindale still hasn't and he's a brilliant defensive mind.
Click to expand...

I was going to respond with something similar about Bienemy. There is something there that is preventing him from being hired as a HC, he's had a ton of interviews with NFL teams and even college, and yet he remains the OC for the Chiefs.

Maybe he also likes being a coordinator, or hasn't found a situation he wanted to jump for? Or maybe he wants to stay in KC and take over for Reid?
 


Stan said:
Here’s the arc of most MN sports fans on most topics: cautious, warms up to potential, gets exited, let down. Rinse and repeat.
Click to expand...
I wasn't crazy about Harbaugh O'Connell coming here a few weeks hours ago, but warmed up to it and actually was am sort of excited about the prospect.

Oh well. Skol!
 


Gophers_4life said:
@Bad Gopher I think you're apply too much of a college perspective here, which is obviously easy for us to do with Fleck.

These are (mostly) not 18-21 year olds, they're grown men. They don't need, and would probably reject, a big sweeping "culture" (all the stuff not having to do with football).

We don't need a salesman to sell the program to recruits/portal guys. The GM handles all that and it mostly comes down to money and playing time situation (and scheme, etc.).

In the NFL, I think the tactics and schematics of the game itself matters far, far more. You pick a scheme/identity, you try to get the best players who can play that scheme well, and you look at/gameplan for matchups with your guys in your scheme vs the other team's guys in their scheme.

In college, recruiting and developing talent is such a huge part of it, and can genuine account for a good chunk of wins where you simply out-talent the other team. You mostly can't do that in the NFL.



At the end of the day, if you win, you win. I don't care if you mumble and stumble at the media podium. Who cares. If you lose, it doesn't matter what you say or how well you say it.


In the NFL, I think it's a good thing for the HC to be a coordinator. My opinion.
Click to expand...
There's no question that things have changed, and it's always been true that there's more than one way to skin a cat. It can't be denied that some of the more successful teams have head coaches who call plays--either offensive or defensive--so there's the proof of concept right there. On the other hand, there are people like Mike Tomlin, who was a heckuva DC in his own right but who gave up play calling for a CEO role, and I count him as one of the best head coaches in the league.
 

A very bitter Mike Florino here: https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/02/03/vikings-missed-their-chance-to-get-jim-harbaugh/

With Harbaugh, everything is a little awkward. But so what? He wins. After multiple years of creating the impression that being “just good enough” was good enough for ownership, the Vikings declared that they intend to compete for championships. If they truly intend to do that, they should have hired Harbaugh.

Fortune favors the brave, they say. The Vikings ultimately weren’t brave enough to roll the dice on a guy who has generated plenty of sevens (when sevens are good). Instead, they’re opting for the predictable unpredictable, plucking the latest product from the Sean McVay assembly line and hoping that a guy who never was a head coach (and who never has called plays) will be able to effectively do a job he has never done.

Meanwhile, Harbaugh has been an effective head coach. FOR NINETEEN YEARS.

I would have hired Harbaugh. If it didn’t work, there would have been the next flavor-of-the-month, lather-rinse-repeat, cookie-cutter candidate from one of the Super Bowl teams. Like there is every year.

The Vikings hired Kwesi Adofo-Mensah to serve as the team’s G.M. Adofo-Mensah wanted to hire Harbaugh. They should have let him. Instead, Adofo-Mensah and Kevin O’Connell will have to find a way to form a critical partnership, even though both know that O’Connell wasn’t the first choice. (Good luck.)

There’s still time to fix it. O’Connell hasn’t been hired. The deal isn’t done until it’s done, as we learned four years ago. Even if the interview was an abject disaster, it’s not about who gives the best interview. It’s about who is the best option to lead a team that has never won a Super Bowl, and that supposedly wants to.

Do the Vikings really want to win a Super Bowl? Or is ownership concerned that things may not work smoothly in the building, given that they don’t live and work in Minnesota and thus aren’t there to monitor and/or mediate? If the Wilfs lived and worked in Minnesota, would they have hired Harbaugh? (Unfortunately, there’s a chance the answer to that question is “yes.”)

Harbaugh is proven. O’Connell is not. And the best evidence that Harbaugh would have potentially worked out very well for the Vikings is this: Big Cat, a Bears fan, made it very clear on PFT Live today that he was worried the Vikings would hire Harbaugh.

They still can. They still should.


The tone almost feels like he was personally invested?? But why.

Is it because the media thinks having JH as the HC would give them more content to write about and generate clicks with than a "ho-hum" guy?
 


This doesn't clear up everything, though, and the matter remains mysterious:

But the Vikings had some hard questions to ask. They wanted to know more about his style and ability to work with others. They wanted to know more about how things ended with the 49ers. They wanted to hear his vision for leading this team back to the Super Bowl for the first time since 1977.

Sometime around 3 p.m., for reasons that are not exactly clear, things started to take a left turn. The tenor started to change, and if there was any momentum at Harbaugh’s back as he tried to secure the job, it disappeared.

Shortly before 6:30 p.m. CT, ESPN first reported that Harbaugh called Michigan athletic director Warde Manuel to tell him he was coming back to the Wolverines for the 2022 season and beyond.

The reason had nothing to do with money or a contract because the Vikings did not offer Harbaugh the job, sources said. There do not appear to be any hard feelings on either side — just a realization that this was not the right fit.

The part that I DO believe is this: "[O'Connell] had left a positive impression on the entire search committee in a way that Harbaugh hadn’t."
 

I still hope they trade Cousins.

No matter what, I don't see us doing anything in 2022 -- with Cousins -- that itself is going to be great but more likely is even going to do anything that sets us up for major success in the following seasons.

So what possible good is hanging on to him??
 
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Gophers_4life said:
A very bitter Mike Florino here: https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/02/03/vikings-missed-their-chance-to-get-jim-harbaugh/

With Harbaugh, everything is a little awkward. But so what? He wins. After multiple years of creating the impression that being “just good enough” was good enough for ownership, the Vikings declared that they intend to compete for championships. If they truly intend to do that, they should have hired Harbaugh.

Fortune favors the brave, they say. The Vikings ultimately weren’t brave enough to roll the dice on a guy who has generated plenty of sevens (when sevens are good). Instead, they’re opting for the predictable unpredictable, plucking the latest product from the Sean McVay assembly line and hoping that a guy who never was a head coach (and who never has called plays) will be able to effectively do a job he has never done.

Meanwhile, Harbaugh has been an effective head coach. FOR NINETEEN YEARS.

I would have hired Harbaugh. If it didn’t work, there would have been the next flavor-of-the-month, lather-rinse-repeat, cookie-cutter candidate from one of the Super Bowl teams. Like there is every year.

The Vikings hired Kwesi Adofo-Mensah to serve as the team’s G.M. Adofo-Mensah wanted to hire Harbaugh. They should have let him. Instead, Adofo-Mensah and Kevin O’Connell will have to find a way to form a critical partnership, even though both know that O’Connell wasn’t the first choice. (Good luck.)

There’s still time to fix it. O’Connell hasn’t been hired. The deal isn’t done until it’s done, as we learned four years ago. Even if the interview was an abject disaster, it’s not about who gives the best interview. It’s about who is the best option to lead a team that has never won a Super Bowl, and that supposedly wants to.

Do the Vikings really want to win a Super Bowl? Or is ownership concerned that things may not work smoothly in the building, given that they don’t live and work in Minnesota and thus aren’t there to monitor and/or mediate? If the Wilfs lived and worked in Minnesota, would they have hired Harbaugh? (Unfortunately, there’s a chance the answer to that question is “yes.”)

Harbaugh is proven. O’Connell is not. And the best evidence that Harbaugh would have potentially worked out very well for the Vikings is this: Big Cat, a Bears fan, made it very clear on PFT Live today that he was worried the Vikings would hire Harbaugh.

They still can. They still should.


The tone almost feels like he was personally invested?? But why.

Is it because the media thinks having JH as the HC would give them more content to write about and generate clicks with than a "ho-hum" guy?
Click to expand...
Not sure why or how, but Florio on the Dan Patrick Show has indicated was/is a Viking fans going back to his childhood, rooting for the Purple People Eaters.
 

Gophers_4life said:
I still hope they trade Cousins.

No matter what, I don't see us doing anything in 2022 that itself is going to be great but more likely is going to do anything that sets us up for major success in the following seasons.

So what possible good is hanging on to him??
Click to expand...
Another thing The Athletic reports is that O'Connell gave the Vikings a "nuanced" evaluation of Cousins in his interview. The word on the street is that O'Connell was a voice recommending they part with Cousins in Washington. The winds seem to be blowing in the direction of moving on from Kirk. They could do wonders with that money, of course. I'd be enthused about this, especially if that's what the coach and GM really want.
 

I'm not pro-Harbaugh or anti-Harbaugh. I would have liked to see him here, as I think that would have made things interesting, for better or worse. I don't really care if the Vikings win or lose, but I do like to follow the franchise. Harbaugh would have added a certain level of intrigue. To me, if feels like this is yet another instance where the organization is content to stand at the plate and hope that they draw a walk, just to get on base and maybe have a chance to score. It'd be nice to see them swing for the fences. They've made some big moves in their history, but I don't know that they've made many bold moves. Like getting Favre. Big move, but it was basically just two parties that could use each other at a point in time. Same with trading for Sam Bradford. Is trading for Herschel the last time this franchise made a truly bold move?
 

Ope3 said:
Not sure why or how, but Florio on the Dan Patrick Show has indicated was/is a Viking fans going back to his childhood, rooting for the Purple People Eaters.
Click to expand...
Florio is a complete and total tool; I wouldn't click on a single one of his links.

The Athletic article linked above by Bad was a good read, a lot of good information in there.

Still very, very interested to see who is going to be on KOC's staff
 

Gophers_4life said:
A very bitter Mike Florino here: https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/02/03/vikings-missed-their-chance-to-get-jim-harbaugh/

With Harbaugh, everything is a little awkward. But so what? He wins. After multiple years of creating the impression that being “just good enough” was good enough for ownership, the Vikings declared that they intend to compete for championships. If they truly intend to do that, they should have hired Harbaugh.

Fortune favors the brave, they say. The Vikings ultimately weren’t brave enough to roll the dice on a guy who has generated plenty of sevens (when sevens are good). Instead, they’re opting for the predictable unpredictable, plucking the latest product from the Sean McVay assembly line and hoping that a guy who never was a head coach (and who never has called plays) will be able to effectively do a job he has never done.

Meanwhile, Harbaugh has been an effective head coach. FOR NINETEEN YEARS.

I would have hired Harbaugh. If it didn’t work, there would have been the next flavor-of-the-month, lather-rinse-repeat, cookie-cutter candidate from one of the Super Bowl teams. Like there is every year.

The Vikings hired Kwesi Adofo-Mensah to serve as the team’s G.M. Adofo-Mensah wanted to hire Harbaugh. They should have let him. Instead, Adofo-Mensah and Kevin O’Connell will have to find a way to form a critical partnership, even though both know that O’Connell wasn’t the first choice. (Good luck.)

There’s still time to fix it. O’Connell hasn’t been hired. The deal isn’t done until it’s done, as we learned four years ago. Even if the interview was an abject disaster, it’s not about who gives the best interview. It’s about who is the best option to lead a team that has never won a Super Bowl, and that supposedly wants to.

Do the Vikings really want to win a Super Bowl? Or is ownership concerned that things may not work smoothly in the building, given that they don’t live and work in Minnesota and thus aren’t there to monitor and/or mediate? If the Wilfs lived and worked in Minnesota, would they have hired Harbaugh? (Unfortunately, there’s a chance the answer to that question is “yes.”)

Harbaugh is proven. O’Connell is not. And the best evidence that Harbaugh would have potentially worked out very well for the Vikings is this: Big Cat, a Bears fan, made it very clear on PFT Live today that he was worried the Vikings would hire Harbaugh.

They still can. They still should.


The tone almost feels like he was personally invested?? But why.

Is it because the media thinks having JH as the HC would give them more content to write about and generate clicks with than a "ho-hum" guy?
Click to expand...
There's a reason people aren't usually hired simply by their resume. If it's not a good fit, it's not a good fit.
 

Ogee Oglethorpe said:
Florio is a complete and total tool; I wouldn't click on a single one of his links.

The Athletic article linked above by Bad was a good read, a lot of good information in there.

Still very, very interested to see who is going to be on KOC's staff
Click to expand...

Give him props for making a career doing what he loves, however.
Lawyer turned TV and internet star.

Scott Korzenowski wishes he could be so lucky.
 

Spaulding!No! said:
Wait! Leber who is usually super busy is on kfan with PA. He will have the answers. Leber is to the vikes what Denny hocking is to the twins.
Click to expand...


I wasn't on for Leber, but I'm guessing this is what he said.

"Do I think the Vikings were thinking of hiring Harbaugh? Well, I don't know for sure, but if people inside the Vikings office, and I know some of them, but if those people were excited, then I'd say yes, they were serious about bringing in Jim to be football coach. But did I hear that excitement from the people I know in that building, no, I didn't hear that yesterday or the days leading up to the interview. But if were someone to have told me, that they were on-board with hiring Harbaugh, and that he would be a good fit here, and if Jim came in and answered the open questions about his relationships with previous GM's,... If Jim did that, then I'd say, YES, they were going to hire Jim Harbaugh to be the head football coach of the Vikings for 2022 and for years to come."
 


Point taken. People obsessing about O'Connell's offensive schemes when 1) their problem was defense and 2) they hired him as head coach, not OC, is cognitive dissonance. Ultimately any early success will hinge on their ability to improve the D, and the key hire will be DC.
 

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