All Things 2021 Minnesota Vikings Off-Season Thread

[MplsGopher]

Valid points. But with the steep incline in QB compensation, the contracts of these players are going to dictate a lot more in decisions than they probably did in the past. Ryan’s contract for example is such that they essentially can’t cut him, so they’d have to be pretty confident they could find a trade partner willing to take on that contract. Just like Cousins- is any team willing to take on that contract, even if they don’t need to give anything up? I’m not sold on Tua, but has any team spent top 5 picks on QBs in consecutive drafts? Much more likely is they trade down for somebody that wants to reach for Wilson.

After watching Stafford for years, I am still unclear if he could be successful elsewhere. I’m not sure he has “it”. He has the tools, but is inconsistent and doesn’t seem to excel in big games (not that the Lions play many of those).

I think he gets hurt more often too? Could be because Lions can't prevent him from taking hits.

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

After watching Stafford for years, I am still unclear if he could be successful elsewhere. I’m not sure he has “it”. He has the tools, but is inconsistent and doesn’t seem to excel in big games (not that the Lions play many of those).

I don't disagree, although a lot of people said the same things about Carson Palmer before he went to the Cardinals. Just throwing it out there, that if I were a team that had a lot of pieces in place, I would be very tempted to roll the dice on Stafford as opposed to drafting a QB in the 1st round that is NOT one of the #1 or #2 options available.

If I'm the 49ers, who may have serious doubts about Jimmy G, I would have to think pretty strongly about a move for Stafford, if the price tag isn't outrageous. Just grabbing a random team in the top 15. The Colts (if Rivers doesn't return), Redskins and Bears are all teams that should seriously consider kicking the tires on that move.

 

[JimmyJamesMD]

Chad Graff at The Athletic, hitting it early talking about the Vikings pending offseason. Highlighting the article, some tough decisions on respected veterans like Anthony Harris, Kyle Rudolph, Reily Reiff and Anthony Barr;

The Athletic: Vikings Offseason Decisions

Reiff should stay, others go

 

[JimmyJamesMD]

As far as the Vikings having a pick high enough to get a QB, if they love a guy that drops between 5 - 10, they should trade up for him. Sure they need more depth, but if its going to be a franchise QB, that covers up a lot of depth problems.

But Rick S did draft Ponder. So unless its a sure thing like Lawerence, not sure I want him picking a QB

 

[forever a gopher]

Our only "out" with Cousins is a pre-June 1st, 2021 trade. That's the only option of the four (cut/trade, pre/post June 1st) that saves cap money for 2021. Just click on the red "X" on the right side of the spotrac table.

Stafford on the other hand, they save cap money for 2021 with any of the four options: $14M for cut or trade before June 1st, $10M for cut or trade after June 1st.

I guess it would have to be something like: we trade Cousins for Stafford before June 1st with both agreeing to reworked deals? Like if Stafford was willing to forgo his massive roster bonuses, then in 2021 we'd "only" owe him $10M for the year. I think ...


But if they're both willing to do that, I guess why not just agree to those reworked contracts staying with the current teams. Not sure what benefit switching would do, other than the idea of "trying something different to try something different, because staying the same probably won't result in anything different".

The problem with many of the QB contracts is that there is little incentive for the player to renegotiate. Because there is so much guaranteed money, and so much dead money if they get cut, there is little chance they get cut prior to the last year or so of their contract. That is usually the only way a player renegotiates (afraid of being cut).

 

[forever a gopher]

Lance is way too big a risk. He could be great ... or he could be Troy Smith.

I would be interested in those that like Lance to know if they've seen him play multiple games (not just highlights). I have friends that are big NDSU fans, and saw a number of games because of them. No thanks. Even those friends don't think he'll cut it in the NFL, and they still think Wentz walks on water.

 

[howeda7]

I think he gets hurt more often too? Could be because Lions can't prevent him from taking hits.

He was pretty healthy until the last two years, but it's not a good trend. Whatever you think of Cousins, he is durable.

 

[howeda7]

As far as the Vikings having a pick high enough to get a QB, if they love a guy that drops between 5 - 10, they should trade up for him. Sure they need more depth, but if its going to be a franchise QB, that covers up a lot of depth problems.

But Rick S did draft Ponder. So unless its a sure thing like Lawerence, not sure I want him picking a QB

If there is a Jalen Hurts equivalent available in the 2nd/3rd round I'd rather do that than roll the dice on Trask/Lance who have at least a 50% shot at being busts.

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

He was pretty healthy until the last two years, but it's not a good trend. Whatever you think of Cousins, he is durable.

Cousins answers the bell, for sure. I got a wild hair a few days ago and took a look, it is nothing short of remarkable where Cousins is on the Vikings all-time QB statistical ladder. Holy shit, it seems like he JUST got to the Vikings. For any Viking with any reasonable amount of starts, basically maybe the top 12-13 in starts, Cousins is

#1 in completion percentage
#4 in total yards
#6 in total wins
#1 in QB rating
#1 in Yards/Game
INT% and TD/INT is light years ahead of anyone else with any amount of starts.

Unfortunately, 4th Q comebacks, a whopping three (3), is tied with the likes of Gus Frerotte and Tarvaris Jackson

Fair or not, being able to stay healthy and answer the bell for your team and your teammates is a big, big factor. Hard to rely on you if you're not always there. Cousins checks that box

 

[howeda7]

Cousins answers the bell, for sure. I got a wild hair a few days ago and took a look, it is nothing short of remarkable where Cousins is on the Vikings all-time QB statistical ladder. Holy shit, it seems like he JUST got to the Vikings. For any Viking with any reasonable amount of starts, basically maybe the top 12-13 in starts, Cousins is

#1 in completion percentage
#4 in total yards
#6 in total wins
#1 in QB rating
#1 in Yards/Game
INT% and TD/INT is light years ahead of anyone else with any amount of starts.

Unfortunately, 4th Q comebacks, a whopping three (3), is tied with the likes of Gus Frerotte and Tarvaris Jackson

Fair or not, being able to stay healthy and answer the bell for your team and your teammates is a big, big factor. Hard to rely on you if you're not always there. Cousins checks that box

Tarvaris had 3 4th quarter comebacks?!?

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

Tarvaris had 3 4th quarter comebacks?!?

Tried looking up his stats, DAMN, I don't know that I remember that he died last April in a car accident at age 36. RIP Tarvaris

I remember watching him play at the Cardinals, lighting up the Cardinals for what I believe was his best game as a pro, leaving the stadium thinking the Vikings may have their guy!! Not so much it turns out

 

[howeda7]

I've been under the impression the Vikings could move on from Cousins after this year with a minimal cap it hit in 2022. It seems his $45 million 2022 salary becomes guaranteed on the 3rd day of this league year in March. So they pretty much have to trade him before then, or they are stuck with him for two more years. Ugh. I'm not a Cousins basher, but that part of the contract is awful.

 

[GophersInIowa]

Looks like Griffen isn’t going to be coming back.

 

[BleedGopher]

Charley Walters: Vikings should trade up to draft quarterback, expert says

The Minnesota Vikings have the No. 14 overall pick in April’s NFL draft. They should trade up to No. 10 to take a quarterback. That’s the opinion of draft expert Scott Wright.

“I think they’ve got to look at a quarterback,” said Wright, who operates Draftcountdown.com. “I think you look at what the Chiefs did when they drafted Patrick Mahomes. They had Alex Smith, a good veteran quarterback, but they used the 10th pick on Mahomes — they traded up to do it, gave up quite a bit — and let him sit for a year.

“The guy I think that fits perfect for the Vikings in that regard is Trey Lance.”

Charley Walters: Vikings should trade up to draft quarterback, expert says

The Minnesota Vikings have the No. 14 overall pick in April’s NFL draft. They should trade up to No. 10 to take a quarterback. That’s the opinion of draft expert Scott Wright. “I think they’ve got …

www.twincities.com

Skol Vikes!!

 

[BleedGopher]

DON’T PRINT THAT

At this juncture, it’s hard to say what teams would be a suitable trading partner for Danielle Hunter should the Vikings move the two-time Pro Bowl pass rusher because of salary cap limitations. But the Miami Dolphins would seem a potential partner.

If the Vikings don’t significantly adjust Hunter’s deal, which averages $14 million a year and runs through 2023, and if he’s 100 percent healthy after offseason neck surgery, the Vikings could be forced to trade him for high draft picks.

People in the know say it could take at least $20 million a year to keep Hunter, who is grossly underpaid, from holding out next season. It looks like the Vikings will have to pay him or trade him before the April 29 draft.

Trading Hunter would require at least a first-round draft pick in return. Miami has Houston’s picks in the first- and second-rounds. The first-round pick is No. 3 overall. The Dolphins aren’t going to trade either of those picks.

But Miami’s own pick in the first round is No. 18 overall, and its second-round pick would be about No. 50 overall.

If Miami were to offer the Vikings Nos. 18 and 50 for Hunter, it might be hard to turn down. Say the Vikings were able to make the deal for Hunter, they would have the Nos. 14 and 18 first-round draft picks. They could spend at least one of those picks on a defensive lineman, another on an offensive lineman.

Charley Walters: Vikings should trade up to draft quarterback, expert says

The Minnesota Vikings have the No. 14 overall pick in April’s NFL draft. They should trade up to No. 10 to take a quarterback. That’s the opinion of draft expert Scott Wright. “I think they’ve got …

www.twincities.com

Skol Vikes!!

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

Charley Walters: Vikings should trade up to draft quarterback, expert says

The Minnesota Vikings have the No. 14 overall pick in April’s NFL draft. They should trade up to No. 10 to take a quarterback. That’s the opinion of draft expert Scott Wright.

“I think they’ve got to look at a quarterback,” said Wright, who operates Draftcountdown.com. “I think you look at what the Chiefs did when they drafted Patrick Mahomes. They had Alex Smith, a good veteran quarterback, but they used the 10th pick on Mahomes — they traded up to do it, gave up quite a bit — and let him sit for a year.

“The guy I think that fits perfect for the Vikings in that regard is Trey Lance.”

Charley Walters: Vikings should trade up to draft quarterback, expert says

The Minnesota Vikings have the No. 14 overall pick in April’s NFL draft. They should trade up to No. 10 to take a quarterback. That’s the opinion of draft expert Scott Wright. “I think they’ve got …

www.twincities.com

Skol Vikes!!

Walters is an idiot, just throwing shit out to possibly get clicks, which is par I guess.

I like Lance as much as anyone but the Vikings moving UP in the draft this year would be 100% sounding the alarm that 2021 is a throw-away season; besides NOT filling a move obvious position of need in the first (not smart this year), the draft capital they would need to move up 4-6 spots or whatever would be harsh, particularly considering they already don't have their 2nd rounder because of the Yannick trade.

Zero chance the Vikings move up in the first and expect to be competitive in 2021. Soooo, move up, draft a QB and then not have another pick until mid-late 3rd to try to fill serious needs at Safety, CB, DT, and OL?

 

[forever a gopher]

Walters is an idiot, just throwing shit out to possibly get clicks, which is par I guess.

I like Lance as much as anyone but the Vikings moving UP in the draft this year would be 100% sounding the alarm that 2021 is a throw-away season; besides NOT filling a move obvious position of need in the first (not smart this year), the draft capital they would need to move up 4-6 spots or whatever would be harsh, particularly considering they already don't have their 2nd rounder because of the Yannick trade.

Zero chance the Vikings move up in the first and expect to be competitive in 2021. Soooo, move up, draft a QB and then not have another pick until mid-late 3rd to try to fill serious needs at Safety, CB, DT, and OL?

2021 is a throwaway season. Maybe they make the playoffs if they stay completely healthy, but they’re not getting anywhere. Too many holes, and the QB contract is crippling them. If Hunter is gone, it could get bad. Nobody else on the roster can rush the passer. At best, they’ll have a rookie or low priced vet to replace him.

And I’ll keep pounding my drum- the chance that Lance is a quality QB in the NFL is very low.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Can we get Heinicke back? He's way better than Mannion.

Why the heck did we let Heinicke walk? Why was he out of football? Why is Mannion on our team?

Heinicke has earned himself a back-up job on a multi-year deal for a few million per season with his play.

 

[GophersInIowa]

2021 is a throwaway season. Maybe they make the playoffs if they stay completely healthy, but they’re not getting anywhere. Too many holes, and the QB contract is crippling them. If Hunter is gone, it could get bad. Nobody else on the roster can rush the passer. At best, they’ll have a rookie or low priced vet to replace him.

And I’ll keep pounding my drum- the chance that Lance is a quality QB in the NFL is very low.

Disagree that it would be a throw away season. Assuming Hunter, Pierce, Barr and Kendricks back the defense should be much improved.

Gotta find ways to improve both lines. Wonder if Rudolph will get released, especially with Smith kinds breaking out a bit. Looks to be a big mistake to resign him.

 

[LakevilleBro]

Can we get Heinicke back? He's way better than Mannion.

Why the heck did we let Heinicke walk? Why was he out of football? Why is Mannion on our team?

Heinicke has earned himself a back-up job on a multi-year deal for a few million per season with his play.

Heinicke had a nice game last night, but remember that 4 NFL teams had previously cut him.

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

Disagree that it would be a throw away season. Assuming Hunter, Pierce, Barr and Kendricks back the defense should be much improved.

Gotta find ways to improve both lines. Wonder if Rudolph will get released, especially with Smith kinds breaking out a bit. Looks to be a big mistake to resign him.

I've mostly been reading the guys for the Vikings at The Athletic (Chad Graff and Arif Hasan, sometimes Jon K) and their projections almost all include Rudolph being gone (not just Smith, Jr stepping up but also Conklin), and also Reiff being gone.

I agree it's not going to be a throwaway season; contract/employment status of HC/GM will almost always be a deciding factor in draft decisions and after a subpar year, neither Zimmer or the Rick will want to draft a QB high when they have to fill other holes.

Latest guesswork I've seen shows the QB situation as Cousins and either Browning/Stanley as the backup, not even bringing back Mannion; with the reasonable justification being that with Cousins having shown himself to be pretty damn durable, no sense in spending a lot on the backup (not that Mannion was expensive). Not a horribly flawed approach, but obviously one that has a TON of risk; Cousins goes down, the season is most certainly f'd.

Should be an interesting offseason. Despite not having a 2nd rounder, the Vikes do have two 3rds, three 4ths and two 5th rounders. Front office and scouting department really needs to hit on some of those, and hope some of last years 4th round and beyond picks take a big step forward in 2021. There were some defensive pieces that flashed some potential; all three 4th rounders, Wonnum, Dye and Lynch, all got a fair amount of snaps.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Heinicke had a nice game last night, but remember that 4 NFL teams had previously cut him.

Do you have any confidence that Mannion could do what Heinicke did given the opportunity? I sure don't. There aren't 32 better 2nd stringers. Heck, I'm not sure there are 10.

 

[MplsGopher]

2021 is a throwaway season. Maybe they make the playoffs if they stay completely healthy, but they’re not getting anywhere. Too many holes, and the QB contract is crippling them. If Hunter is gone, it could get bad. Nobody else on the roster can rush the passer. At best, they’ll have a rookie or low priced vet to replace him.

And I’ll keep pounding my drum- the chance that Lance is a quality QB in the NFL is very low.

Agree that Lance is a risk. He needed to play this whole fall season in a normal year, to help remove that risk, and that didn't happen obviously. I really think the smarter move for him, with the blanket waiver, would've been to transfer to a P5 school and give that a shot. Oh well, ship has sailed.

I disagree 21 will be a throwaway. Especially if we can improve on defense. Captain obvious. If Pierce and Hunter come back healthy and have great years. Kendricks has a great year. I don't know if they're going to try to move on from Barr? But I guess not, so if he has a great year. And so on.

Draft a LT. Get a decent guard in FA.

Cousins, Cook, Theilen, Jefferson, Irv Smith, Tyler "Gronklin", is a nice set of skill players, plus some solid backups/rotation guys.

 

[forever a gopher]

Agree that Lance is a risk. He needed to play this whole fall season in a normal year, to help remove that risk, and that didn't happen obviously. I really think the smarter move for him, with the blanket waiver, would've been to transfer to a P5 school and give that a shot. Oh well, ship has sailed.

I disagree 21 will be a throwaway. Especially if we can improve on defense. Captain obvious. If Pierce and Hunter come back healthy and have great years. Kendricks has a great year. I don't know if they're going to try to move on from Barr? But I guess not, so if he has a great year. And so on.

Draft a LT. Get a decent guard in FA.

Cousins, Cook, Theilen, Jefferson, Irv Smith, Tyler "Gronklin", is a nice set of skill players, plus some solid backups/rotation guys.

Lance has zero incentive to do what you said. He will be a first rounder. However, as a prospect, he would be greatly helped by doing what you said. But he’ll get paid, and have to learn on the job.

I guess it depends on your definition of “throwaway”. Do they have a chance at a SB appearance in 2021? Not a chance. However, the 8-8 Bears are in the expanded playoffs right now, and I’m guessing they consider that a success. Of course, they have no business being there in the first place. IF (big if) Hunter comes back in 2021, and IF Cook stays healthy (again, big if), and the D stays healthy, they could make the playoffs. It sounds like people think that’s enough of a success. Personally, I’m tired of being slightly above mediocre. If that means taking a step back in 2021 to have greater success in the future, so be it.

Does anybody know that betting line on Hunter being back? He’s making $14MM, and I read somewhere he wants close to $20MM. If the salary cap goes down, I have to assume there’s no chance they can afford him. The D looks way different with him than without.

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

Lance has zero incentive to do what you said. He will be a first rounder. However, as a prospect, he would be greatly helped by doing what you said. But he’ll get paid, and have to learn on the job.

I guess it depends on your definition of “throwaway”. Do they have a chance at a SB appearance in 2021? Not a chance. However, the 8-8 Bears are in the expanded playoffs right now, and I’m guessing they consider that a success. Of course, they have no business being there in the first place. IF (big if) Hunter comes back in 2021, and IF Cook stays healthy (again, big if), and the D stays healthy, they could make the playoffs. It sounds like people think that’s enough of a success. Personally, I’m tired of being slightly above mediocre. If that means taking a step back in 2021 to have greater success in the future, so be it.

Does anybody know that betting line on Hunter being back? He’s making $14MM, and I read somewhere he wants close to $20MM. If the salary cap goes down, I have to assume there’s no chance they can afford him. The D looks way different with him than without.

The Hunter thing is just really a unique situation across the board. From the standpoint that he missed the entire season with an injury, his leverage one would think couldn't be much lower. Add to that the extreme likelihood of a decreased salary cap next year, doesn't help his position. But from the standpoint that the pass rush was nonexistent without him, he likely has quite a bit of leverage.

At the very least, I would think neither side of this negotiation has the other side by the short hairs. Unfortunately, the Vikings need him more than he needs them; somebody would pay him. The notion of trading him is frightening, but if it came to that, one would have to think the return haul would be substantial.

Not a great situation all the way around, for a team with plenty of other holes to fill

 

[forever a gopher]

The notion of trading him is frightening, but if it came to that, one would have to think the return haul would be substantial.

Not a great situation all the way around, for a team with plenty of other holes to fill

Normally, I wouldn’t be too disappointed if they had to trade him. Seattle got a 1 and 2 from KC for Frank Clark in a similar situation. But this team is old, with a QB that is not the long term solution. Trading for picks in 2021/2022 is not really what this team needs. Long term, it could be good. But Spielman is not looking long term, hence the Cousins extension. IMO, they’re at a perfect place to keep the young assets they have and trade the older good ones to teams looking for that one last piece, thereby not having to completely bottom out. But they keep on thinking this team is capable of a SB.

One of the reasons I’m so down on the team is how it’s constructed. A RB first team in today’s NFL is already behind the 8-ball. It can be successful with an efficient offense and excellent D. However, almost everything has to break your way. The excellent D that we had is gone. Look at GB- elite QB with one good WR, and a middle of the road D, and they’re the 1 seed. You can beat the teams you’re supposed to beat consistently the way the Vikes are built, but once you get to the playoffs, the defenses are likely good enough that they’ll sell out to stop the run and make you beat them through the air. See what happened to Tennessee this weekend.

 

[forever a gopher]

And in all things “typical Minnesota sports”, Mike Priefer is interim coaching the Kevin Stefanski Browns to a 35-10 lead over the Mike Tomlin Steelers. If the Browns hang on (it is the Browns, after all...), Stefanski would have half as many playoff wins as Zim in his first year in the football wasteland that is Cleveland (if you credit the win to Stefanski, which I suppose technically isn’t credited to him).

 

[MplsGopher]

Lance has zero incentive to do what you said. He will be a first rounder. However, as a prospect, he would be greatly helped by doing what you said. But he’ll get paid, and have to learn on the job.

I guess it depends on your definition of “throwaway”. Do they have a chance at a SB appearance in 2021? Not a chance. However, the 8-8 Bears are in the expanded playoffs right now, and I’m guessing they consider that a success. Of course, they have no business being there in the first place. IF (big if) Hunter comes back in 2021, and IF Cook stays healthy (again, big if), and the D stays healthy, they could make the playoffs. It sounds like people think that’s enough of a success. Personally, I’m tired of being slightly above mediocre. If that means taking a step back in 2021 to have greater success in the future, so be it.

Does anybody know that betting line on Hunter being back? He’s making $14MM, and I read somewhere he wants close to $20MM. If the salary cap goes down, I have to assume there’s no chance they can afford him. The D looks way different with him than without.

Bolded: luck (injuries mainly, both for us as well as teams we play again) obviously plays a part in it, but there have been Wild Card teams that made the Super Bowl.

What do you mean by "take a step back in 21"? Why can't we be a borderline playoff team in 21, and then still be able to take the same steps going forward? Are you suggesting we need to lose more games in 21 to get better draft picks?

 

[MplsGopher]

And in all things “typical Minnesota sports”, Mike Priefer is interim coaching the Kevin Stefanski Browns to a 35-10 lead over the Mike Tomlin Steelers. If the Browns hang on (it is the Browns, after all...), Stefanski would have half as many playoff wins as Zim in his first year in the football wasteland that is Cleveland (if you credit the win to Stefanski, which I suppose technically isn’t credited to him).

Browns fans would say "we sucked for a lonnnnnng time, we're way past due."

But I get your point, of course.

 

[forever a gopher]

Bolded: luck (injuries mainly, both for us as well as teams we play again) obviously plays a part in it, but there have been Wild Card teams that made the Super Bowl.

What do you mean by "take a step back in 21"? Why can't we be a borderline playoff team in 21, and then still be able to take the same steps going forward? Are you suggesting we need to lose more games in 21 to get better draft picks?

What I'm suggesting is moving assets for draft picks while they still have value. And looking at the future instead of trying to get enough pieces to "win now" (moves like the Ngakue trade). Do they like any of the top QB's to trade up, knowing they're sacrificing "now"? Or are any of the second tier guys good enough to get back into the second round for (Trask, for example)? It doesn't necessarily have to be QB this year, as Cousins will most certainly be here based on his contract through 2022. So they've made that bed, which means they're treading water until that contract is off the books.