All Things 2021 Minnesota Vikings In-Season Thread

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MplsGopher said:
Well, I guess today is the day.

I don't think they'll fire anyone this week.

Maybe they should, and maybe they should just admit that the season is basically over, with Hunter out perhaps being a "sign from the gods".

That's what firing Zim would be. Admitting that the season is over. They do have a bottom line to think about, as well.


They're going to give them a chance to see if they can rebound against a good, but hardly great, Ravens team, and show something.


We were all about it when they were 3-3. It might revert to that if we are back to 4-4. Let' see.
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In reality Zim gets the next 3 games. If they win 2/3 they're in decent shape. If they lose all 3, he's gone.
 

I think his only chance of being back next year is if they win a playoff game. I personally wouldn't even wait to find out if we make the playoffs but Spielman and Zygi haven't called me yet for my opinion.
 

I wouldn't have a problem if they moved on from Zimmer but they better damn well have a plan in place WELL before making a move like that. You don't make a move like that, ditching a coach like Zim, without having a really, Really good plan. Making a move just to make a move is considerably more stupid than making a move with a solid plan.
 

Ogee Oglethorpe said:
I wouldn't have a problem if they moved on from Zimmer but they better damn well have a plan in place WELL before making a move like that. You don't make a move like that, ditching a coach like Zim, without having a really, Really good plan. Making a move just to make a move is considerably more stupid than making a move with a solid plan.
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Perhaps the person with a really good plan for the next Head Coach is not even employed by the Vikings as of yet.
 

Unregistered User said:
Spielman took over as Director of Player Personnel in 2006.

Since that time, the Vikings have complied an overall regular season record of 127-118...winning at a blistering clip of 51.84%.

In 14 YEARS, they have appeared in 9 total playoff games, and are 3-6 in those 9.
2 NFC Championship appearances - no wins.

That is not OK.

Just looked up the packers:
160-86 regular season - 65.04%
12-9 in playoffs - 6 NFC championship appearances (5 losses) and 1 SB victory.
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The definition of mediocre. There's zero reason to bring back Spielman or Zim next season.
 


Purple purgatory.

I'm ready for something different.
 


Nax5 said:
Purple purgatory.
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Stuck in the middle. That's exactly the Vikings.

Guessing some other franchise as well.


You have to suck, for some non-zero number of years, to be able to get the game-changer that you need to win big.

The NFL really should have some degree of "wild card" for middling franchises to "luck into" a top 5 pick.
 

MplsGopher said:
Stuck in the middle. That's exactly the Vikings.

Guessing some other franchise as well.


You have to suck, for some non-zero number of years, to be able to get the game-changer that you need to win big.

The NFL really should have some degree of "wild card" for middling franchises to "luck into" a top 5 pick.
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I am in the "tank if you're not going to make the playoffs club", so I'm kind of contradicting myself...however, numerous really good QB's were not top draft picks (at least in the top 5). Not going to take the time to look at other positions, but I suppose you could look at the top overall NFL players and see where they were drafted.

Lamar Jackson (32 overall)
Josh Allen (7)
Patrick Mahomes (10)
Justin Herbert (6)
Ben Roethlisberger (11)
Dak Prescott (135)
Aaron Rodgers (24)
Deshaun Watson (12)

Good QB's that were selected in the top 5:
Kyler Murrary
Matt Ryan (at least he was pretty good for a stretch of time in the past)
Joe Burrow
Matthew Stafford

There are a number of young guys that have been taken in the top 5 recently that look like they could be good, but there isn't yet enough of a track record to determine one way or the other.
 



forever a gopher said:
I am in the "tank if you're not going to make the playoffs club", so I'm kind of contradicting myself...however, numerous really good QB's were not top draft picks (at least in the top 5). Not going to take the time to look at other positions, but I suppose you could look at the top overall NFL players and see where they were drafted.

Lamar Jackson (32 overall)
Josh Allen (7)
Patrick Mahomes (10)
Justin Herbert (6)
Ben Roethlisberger (11)
Dak Prescott (135)
Aaron Rodgers (24)
Deshaun Watson (12)

Good QB's that were selected in the top 5:
Kyler Murrary
Matt Ryan (at least he was pretty good for a stretch of time in the past)
Joe Burrow
Matthew Stafford

There are a number of young guys that have been taken in the top 5 recently that look like they could be good, but there isn't yet enough of a track record to determine one way or the other.
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What is likely to be our draft position, if we get the 7th playoff spot and lose the first round game, this year? So that's going to exclude guys like Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, even Watson, on your list.

And I feel like Jackson and Rodgers could have easily gone higher, but slid for stupid reasons.

Cowboys obviously don't need Dak! ;)
 

MplsGopher said:
What is likely to be our draft position, if we get the 7th playoff spot and lose the first round game, this year? So that's going to exclude guys like Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, even Watson, on your list.

And I feel like Jackson and Rodgers could have easily gone higher, but slid for stupid reasons.

Cowboys obviously don't need Dak! ;)
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Absolutely. I see no benefit in going to the playoffs as a 7 seed if there is no realistic chance at making a deep run. See Chicago Bears last year. Did they have a realistic shot at doing anything in the playoffs? No. But they made the playoffs, so hey, the seasons a success! Just suck and get a top-10 pick.

People will point to the Packers as a 6-seed, and I'd argue everybody knew they had a decent chance at making a run because of Rodgers. If you have a guy like that as your QB, you just need to get into the playoffs, no matter the seed. Could be the same for the Chiefs this year- their struggles could mean they get into the playoffs as a 6/7 seed. I'd still be all-in due to their QB. The Chiefs making the playoffs as a 7 seed and Vikes making it as a 7 seed are two very different things. The Vikes need to find that guy. Until then, just keep searching and stop settling for mediocrity.
 

forever a gopher said:
Absolutely. I see no benefit in going to the playoffs as a 7 seed if there is no realistic chance at making a deep run.
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I get that most fans may feel this way, but I can almost certainly tell you the team and the front office and the ownership do NOT feel the same.

Playoffs means you at least have a chance, the players all think they can win any game, players and definitely coaches probably have incentives tied to postseason appearances, and postseason I'm sure means a lot more dollars in revenue for ownership.
 

the point is - if you are drafting in the middle every year, you have less margin for error. you have to nail most of your draft picks to improve the talent level on your team.

and Spielman's track record is pretty spotty. he's hit on a few picks, but he has missed on plenty.

same thing with trades/free agent signings. if you sign a guy to a big contract and he doesn't deliver, that hurts a team in the middle because they don't have the top draft picks to offset team needs.

bottoming out and loading up on high draft picks can lead to a quicker turn-around - IF it's done right.
 



short ornery norwegian said:
the point is - if you are drafting in the middle every year, you have less margin for error. you have to nail most of your draft picks to improve the talent level on your team.

and Spielman's track record is pretty spotty. he's hit on a few picks, but he has missed on plenty.

same thing with trades/free agent signings. if you sign a guy to a big contract and he doesn't deliver, that hurts a team in the middle because they don't have the top draft picks to offset team needs.

bottoming out and loading up on high draft picks can lead to a quicker turn-around - IF it's done right.
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I just don't agree with that very much, and again, the team doesn't agree with that either. Mahomes was drafted 10th; Josh Rosen was drafted 10th a year or two later. The Vikings drafted Ponder 12th I think. Tua was drafted 5th, before Herbert, and by all accounts Miami is ready to move on from Tua. Four different wide receivers went before the Vikings picked Justin Jefferson at 22nd.

The draft is way, WAY too much of an uncertain crap shoot to make drastic moves like tanking, even to a small extent. If things are screwed for the season and there's 2 games left or 3 games left, do you throw Kellen Mond out there for a bunch? Heck yeah. Throwing him out there now would be the dumbest thing ever.
 

Ogee Oglethorpe said:
I just don't agree with that very much, and again, the team doesn't agree with that either. Mahomes was drafted 10th; Josh Rosen was drafted 10th a year or two later. The Vikings drafted Ponder 12th I think. Tua was drafted 5th, before Herbert, and by all accounts Miami is ready to move on from Tua. Four different wide receivers went before the Vikings picked Justin Jefferson at 22nd.

The draft is way, WAY too much of an uncertain crap shoot to make drastic moves like tanking, even to a small extent. If things are screwed for the season and there's 2 games left or 3 games left, do you throw Kellen Mond out there for a bunch? Heck yeah. Throwing him out there now would be the dumbest thing ever.
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Agreed. Basketball is less risky for the very top prospects. Also, one player in basketball has a much bigger impact on a game, except for maybe the QB.

It's not worth tanking in football.
 

A-Rodg, not a team player, I guess.
 




so are they starting Jordan Love?
 

kg21 said:
so are they starting Jordan Love?
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Sounds like it, he had close contact though with #12 but is vaxed. Blake Bortles, is reportedly signing with them in case of emergency.

Probably not a Wally Pipp situation.
 

I had been a Zimmer defender because I believe he was burdened with Kirk's huge contract, but I've changed my mind.

He has surrounded himself with people who only have their positions based on friendships and nepotism.

He hired his own son who is now CO-DC with Andre Patterson. It's insulting that Patterson shares that position with Mike Zimmer's kid. He brought on Norv Turner's kid to be the QBs coach.
He brought on Clint Kubiak to take over for Gary Kubiak. He has surrounded himself with buddies and their kids. The fact that our offense sputters while Kirk Cousins is playing well is insane. I wish I could blame the struggles on Kirk, but he's been fine. It's the rest.

Then it comes to his bread and butter - CBs. Since Zimmer has arrived, we have spent 4 1st round, 1 2nd round, and 3 3rd round picks on CBs. That's an insane amount of draft capital considering how few hits we have. I know part of that is on Spielman, but if Zimmer isn't part of the evaluation process of CBs in the draft, something is even more off.

In all, I don't know what he brings to the table. His staffs seem full of nepotism, he isn't a good game day coach, our CBs are horrid.

I'd get rid of Zim.
Stock pile draft capital by trading Thielen, Smith, Cook, Pierce, Kendricks
Let Cousins, Richardson, Woods, Peterson, Alexander walk.
Restructure or cut Anthony Barr
We're now expensive, average, and old. We need to rip off the band aid because this isn't getting any better.
 

TruthSeeker said:
Agreed. Basketball is less risky for the very top prospects. Also, one player in basketball has a much bigger impact on a game, except for maybe the QB.

It's not worth tanking in football.
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Sure.

I'm not suggesting the Vikings should tank. I'm just saying, statistically and averaging over years and years, if you perpetually finish in the not great, but not at the bottom, then you're less likely to land a game-changer.
 

I don't see how anyone can blame Zim or Spiel for Hughes or Gladney.

And for that matter, both Pat Elflein and Bradbury won the Rimington award their senior year, as the best center in college football.
 

What about Hunter? Two years now where he will have been hurt. Is he too injury prone?
 

Silver Fox on at nueve y punto. It is gonna be a Rodgers rager. Wait, that show is almost always 30 min of Rodgers chat.
 

MplsGopher said:
What about Hunter? Two years now where he will have been hurt. Is he too injury prone?
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Yes, and at 27, not likely he becomes less prone to injuries.

Not reached Buxton status with respect to availability, but similar in that they are unquestionably the most talented players on their teams, but hard to rely on either of them at this point.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I had been a Zimmer defender because I believe he was burdened with Kirk's huge contract, but I've changed my mind.

He has surrounded himself with people who only have their positions based on friendships and nepotism.

He hired his own son who is now CO-DC with Andre Patterson. It's insulting that Patterson shares that position with Mike Zimmer's kid. He brought on Norv Turner's kid to be the QBs coach.
He brought on Clint Kubiak to take over for Gary Kubiak. He has surrounded himself with buddies and their kids. The fact that our offense sputters while Kirk Cousins is playing well is insane. I wish I could blame the struggles on Kirk, but he's been fine. It's the rest.

Then it comes to his bread and butter - CBs. Since Zimmer has arrived, we have spent 4 1st round, 1 2nd round, and 3 3rd round picks on CBs. That's an insane amount of draft capital considering how few hits we have. I know part of that is on Spielman, but if Zimmer isn't part of the evaluation process of CBs in the draft, something is even more off.

In all, I don't know what he brings to the table. His staffs seem full of nepotism, he isn't a good game day coach, our CBs are horrid.

I'd get rid of Zim.
Stock pile draft capital by trading Thielen, Smith, Cook, Pierce, Kendricks
Let Cousins, Richardson, Woods, Peterson, Alexander walk.
Restructure or cut Anthony Barr
We're now expensive, average, and old. We need to rip off the band aid because this isn't getting any better.
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OL failure gets a lot of the attention as it should but CB is definitely up there as well when you consider how many top picks they've used on that position.
 

GophersInIowa said:
OL failure gets a lot of the attention as it should but CB is definitely up there as well when you consider how many top picks they've used on that position.
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Definitely their fault about Hughes and Gladney.

How could they have not foreseen those??
 


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