2024 MN High School Football thread

[WoodburyTim]

Agree
But just like your MSHSL enrollment number is .6 for a kid on free and reduced lunch a kid should be like 1.3 if they pay money to go to school there

There’s poor kids at private schools too. But if you figure out a formula so be it.

 

[disco]

I'm predicting a Maple Grove-Minnetonka Prep Bowl.

And you win the prize!

 

[MaxyJR1]

Prep bowl will be a lot of running too.

 

[Some guy]

There’s poor kids at private schools too. But if you figure out a formula so be it.

If they are poor and getting financial assistance, they wouldn’t be paying tuition would they?

So like if a school has 800 kids, 550 are paying tuition, only 550 would get the multiplier

 

[gopher-revolution]

If they are poor and getting financial assistance, they wouldn’t be paying tuition would they?

So like if a school has 800 kids, 550 are paying tuition, only 550 would get the multiplier

I may be wrong, but I thought that the private schools did not get to use the "free and reduced lunch" formula. This is what I was told, for whatever that is worth. Please someone verify or correct me as I don't need to be the rumor dude.

 

[50PoundHead]

MN has open enrollment. It happens everywhere. You can’t make kids go somewhere they don’t want to. And you can’t make Catholic kids go to public school to make you feel better about sports.

Where your logic falls down a bit is that there are a lot of kids going to Totino Grace that aren't Catholic and private school recruiting for athletics has been a thing for a long time. I'm not going to gripe about it, but it's pretty much accepted fact that it's happening.

 

[50PoundHead]

I may be wrong, but I thought that the private schools did not get to use the "free and reduced lunch" formula. This is what I was told, for whatever that is worth. Please someone verify or correct me as I don't need to be the rumor dude.

Private schools only receive public money for a limited set of services they provide (transportation, books and instructional materials, and student counseling). They get no money under Minnesota's general education formula that includes a boost in funding for students on free or reduced price lunch and school districts and buildings where the concentration of students on free or reduced price lunch attend is high.

 

[Some guy]

I may be wrong, but I thought that the private schools did not get to use the "free and reduced lunch" formula. This is what I was told, for whatever that is worth. Please someone verify or correct me as I don't need to be the rumor dude.

Are you talking about for school or for their MSHSL enrollment number

I am saying a school where kids parents are all paying to be there likely means they have more resources. If we are going to reduce populations for schools with few resources for competitive reasons we should increase populations for affluence for the same reason.
It is why private schools dominate the middle classes of Minnesota in nearly every sport.
Totino grace has the resources of a 6a or 5a school and are playing 4a. Totino has so many resources they once dominated the lower class so much they asked to move up and were competing for titles. Then teams caught up to them….now it’s unfair for them to play even 5a. So they’ll dominate 4a for a decade.

zero private schools play 6a anymore

2/8 5a state teams are private
3/8 4a state teams are private

it’s fine. It just isn’t really what it’s meant for.
Cretin goes to state by beating St. Paul highland park. They’re in the same section and class because they have to same resources lol

Holy family and Minneapolis north in same section. Really comparable.
Simley and hill Murray
Holy angels de la salle and Benilde were in the semifinals in the same section as Minneapolis Roosevelt being the 4th team.

It’s fine if we want to let private schools dominate. Let’s just not pretend the classification system is at all about creating like-schools matchups if you don’t adjust tuition paying populations

 

[Ope3]

So the shitshow that was the organization at the stadium...

We arrived just before halftime of the Chatfield - Staples/Motley game (missing all the offense apparently). The stadium looked almost closed. Almost nothing showing where to go etc. Found the correct door, go in. All it says is - home team go right, visitors left, with a list of teams.

We walk around and the only way to get to where the home team seating was said "reserved seats only." So we just walked around a barrier and sat somewhere. Then an usher comes over and says we can't sit there. I ask where can we sit? He says go to where the reserved seats sign is. So we go. I ask when we get there, where general admission sits. They point me in a direction. I ask another usher the same question.

Here I get a convoluted answer about how all the seats in the area are reserved for ONLY the 6A game. So we should go sit somewhere for the second half of Chatfield-SM, but we will have to find new seats for the 6A game. What? Where is GA seating? She doesn't really know. Says maybe they will open sections? What?

So we go in and sit with the Chatfield fans. As we are sitting there, a bunch of MG fans come in and seem super annoyed because there are fans already sitting there. (YEAH, BECAUSE THERE'S ANOTHER GAME GOING ON). Everything feels kind of uncomfortable.

They do open a couple sections further down, so we move over from the awkwardness. As we are moving, there is a huge line of MG fans cordoned off waiting to get in. Like a LOT of them. And it's getting really close to game time. Not sure at what point they were allowed into the seating area, but they all seemed pretty pissy at that point.

I'm still not sure if the section we were in was reserved or not. The students and parents were down below and already in place. Also, the only concessions open on that side were down at the field level where the students were, but if you weren't familiar with the stadium (and the high buck area of the stadium) you would never know where that was. We stumbled on it by accident.

It was all just kind of terribly managed.

Cheap Wilfs.

Plus stadium design sucks in terms of ability to navigate.

 

[60's Guy]

Cheap Wilfs.

Plus stadium design sucks in terms of ability to navigate.

The Wilfs have no input or control over MSHSL events. MSHSL is solely responsible for their poor leadership and tournament organization.

 

[LesBolstad]

The Wilfs have no input or control over MSHSL events. MSHSL is solely responsible for their poor leadership and tournament organization.

It really is a poorly designed stadium. Probably the worst I've seen and I've been to 10 other NFL ones.

 

[WoodburyTim]

Where your logic falls down a bit is that there are a lot of kids going to Totino Grace that aren't Catholic and private school recruiting for athletics has been a thing for a long time. I'm not going to gripe about it, but it's pretty much accepted fact that it's happening.

You know I went to a private school, won a state championship and heard the same thing from guys that just couldn’t admit they didn’t win because they weren’t good enough at sports. Strangely every kid on my team was Catholic, mostly not rich, went through the parochial school system. And just about everybody in similar situations I know has said the same things. Not scholarships, not recruiting just families that wanted to send their kids for a religious education.

But if it makes you feel better that the private schools are recruiting and giving out scholarships or that Warroad’s players were all given lucrative jobs at Marvin windows then so be it. It is the favorite tradition of unathletic high school athletes that need an excuse.

 

[MaxyJR1]

The Wilfs have no input or control over MSHSL events. MSHSL is solely responsible for their poor leadership and tournament organization.

They can only have the doors open to where the seats are. You really can’t get to the sideline seats without going through the proper entrances.

They tried something new with some assigned seating. Unfortunately when games run late and you have a 20 minute flip, it’s going to cause issues.

We should probably move the games to Fargo.

The funny part is that the MSHSL is typically a leader that other states follow.

 

[Some guy]

You know I went to a private school, won a state championship and heard the same thing from guys that just couldn’t admit they didn’t win because they weren’t good enough at sports. Strangely every kid on my team was Catholic, mostly not rich, went through the parochial school system. And just about everybody in similar situations I know has said the same things. Not scholarships, not recruiting just families that wanted to send their kids for a religious education.

But if it makes you feel better that the private schools are recruiting and giving out scholarships or that Warroad’s players were all given lucrative jobs at Marvin windows then so be it. It is the favorite tradition of unathletic high school athletes that need an excuse.

Yeah. They are winning because they are better.
You are 100% correct.
Would all these 4a schools be winning if they played against schools with more similar resources and affluence?
Maybe.

Nobody is saying they aren’t better. You’re correct, they’re better

 

[Some guy]

It really is a poorly designed stadium. Probably the worst I've seen and I've been to 10 other NFL ones.

It’s a top 5 stadium once you’re in your seat.
It is a bottom 10 stadium in terms of crowd movement in concourses

Literal safety hazards as you try to enter upper decks. Wont be surprised at all if people die in a trampling incident at that stadium at some point

Choke points where escalators just keep dumping people with no where to go.

 

[60's Guy]

It really is a poorly designed stadium. Probably the worst I've seen and I've been to 10 other NFL ones.

And after 9 years lets go with that excuse? Leadership is about finding solutions to problems.
It is no longer a surprise issue. Lack of communication (uninformed ushers) and lousy signage is a major part of the problem. Not having a solution in year 9 is on the MSHSL

 

[gopher-revolution]

Are you talking about for school or for their MSHSL enrollment number

I am saying a school where kids parents are all paying to be there likely means they have more resources. If we are going to reduce populations for schools with few resources for competitive reasons we should increase populations for affluence for the same reason.
It is why private schools dominate the middle classes of Minnesota in nearly every sport.
Totino grace has the resources of a 6a or 5a school and are playing 4a. Totino has so many resources they once dominated the lower class so much they asked to move up and were competing for titles. Then teams caught up to them….now it’s unfair for them to play even 5a. So they’ll dominate 4a for a decade.

zero private schools play 6a anymore

2/8 5a state teams are private
3/8 4a state teams are private

it’s fine. It just isn’t really what it’s meant for.
Cretin goes to state by beating St. Paul highland park. They’re in the same section and class because they have to same resources lol

Holy family and Minneapolis north in same section. Really comparable.
Simley and hill Murray
Holy angels de la salle and Benilde were in the semifinals in the same section as Minneapolis Roosevelt being the 4th team.

It’s fine if we want to let private schools dominate. Let’s just not pretend the classification system is at all about creating like-schools matchups if you don’t adjust tuition paying populations

I was referring to the free and reduced lunch formula which plays a part in determining which class each team ends up in.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

Meanwhile, back on the field: listened to 1st half of Springfield game on the radio. Springfield down 14-0 at halftime and struggling to move the ball. I left to do something - went back later to check score and Springfield won. Scored on 4 consecutive possessions and found a way to stop Mahnomen-Waubun. Looks like Springfield and Minneota meet again in the 1A final.

 

[MaxyJR1]

Meanwhile, back on the field: listened to 1st half of Springfield game on the radio. Springfield down 14-0 at halftime and struggling to move the ball. I left to do something - went back later to check score and Springfield won. Scored on 4 consecutive possessions and found a way to stop Mahnomen-Waubun. Looks like Springfield and Minneota meet again in the 1A final.

Sounds like Mahnomen suffered a significant injury and couldn't do anything on offense afterwards.

 

[disco]

It’s a top 5 stadium once you’re in your seat.
It is a bottom 10 stadium in terms of crowd movement in concourses

Literal safety hazards as you try to enter upper decks. Wont be surprised at all if people die in a trampling incident at that stadium at some point

Choke points where escalators just keep dumping people with no where to go.

Spot on with everything you wrote. I've only been to a handful of events there, so I've never really had to wander around for anything. It's like a carnival funhouse to find where you're going. Even finding the restroom near where we were sitting was strange.

 

[Ope3]

Spot on with everything you wrote. I've only been to a handful of events there, so I've never really had to wander around for anything. It's like a carnival funhouse to find where you're going. Even finding the restroom near where we were sitting was strange.

I've been to the Zygi Dome a dozen times now. 2 Vikes games, U2 concert (JT30), NCAA Basketball Championship and the rest HS football playoffs.

I hate it more each time I go. Would have been a huge drag if the Gophers had been tied to that edifice, and my disdain has nothing to do with the roof.

Looks good on TV though.

 

[Word]

Where your logic falls down a bit is that there are a lot of kids going to Totino Grace that aren't Catholic and private school recruiting for athletics has been a thing for a long time. I'm not going to gripe about it, but it's pretty much accepted fact that it's happening.

Public schools recruit too, but generally not at anywhere near the level of private schools. I have a ton of relatives that went to or are currently at TG, a few that were high level football players. According to them, TG has a lot of recruits, including many who aren't Catholic.

 

[MNVCGUY]

My son said on the way home - Shakopee's defense had three receptions. Their offense had none.

How did this team get to state?

Strong Defense and a really good running game that allowed them to get ahead of people. When Rosemount played them I was really impressed with Shakopee but also remember thinking at the time that if they had to throw to beat someone they would be in a ton of trouble.

 

[50PoundHead]

Public schools recruit too, but generally not at anywhere near the level of private schools. I have a ton of relatives that went to or are currently at TG, a few that were high level football players. According to them, TG has a lot of recruits, including many who aren't Catholic.

Ask Kenny Novak.

I don't have that big a problem with it. It's a thing now. Clock's not getting turned back. I don't blame a lot of these good inner city athletes heading to a private school where they are likely to get financial assistance, be in a better playing environment, and have a better chance at playing at the next level.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

MSHSL FB Semi-Finals

Sat, 11/16
A - (S2) Springfield 30, (N2) Mahnomen-Waubun 16
A - (S1) Minneota 45, (N4) Parkers Prairie 0
3A - (S2) Dassel-Cokato 29, (N2) Pequot Lakes 26
3A - (S1) Stewartville 33, (N4) Albany 20
5A - (N3) Alexandria 42, (S1) Owatonna 20

Prep Bowl
Fri, 11/22
-----------
1A: 10am (S1) Minneota vs (S2) Springfield
2A: 1pm - (S2) Jackson County Central vs (N3) Staples-Motley
4A: 4pm - (N1) Becker vs (S1) Totino-Grace
6A: 7pm - Minnetonka vs Maple Grove

Sat, 11/23
-----------
9pl- 10am - (S2) Hills-Beaver Creek vs (N2) Fertile-Beltrami
3A: 1pm - (S1) Stewartville vs (S2) Dassel-Cokato
5A: 4pm - (N1) Elk River vs (N3) Alexandria

Prep Bowl matchups - North vs South 3x / South vs South 2x / North vs North 1x
6A does its own thing. Minnetonka was the #1 seed in Section 6. Maple Grove was the #1 seed in Section 5. by my count, of the 14 teams we have 7 #1 seeds, 5 #2 seeds, and 2 #3 seeds.

It still feels odd to have the Prep Bowl the week before Thanksgiving.

 

[State of Football]

The Wilfs have no input or control over MSHSL events. MSHSL is solely responsible for their poor leadership and tournament organization.

I was there. It’s USBank stadium personnel. Stadium is terrible on the home side. Best security won’t allow parents to congregate and athletes to come up due to congestion at the front entrance. Parents were entitled and it didn’t appear the kids really cared…. We just wanted to leave.

 

[walrus]

Public schools recruit too, but generally not at anywhere near the level of private schools. I have a ton of relatives that went to or are currently at TG, a few that were high level football players. According to them, TG has a lot of recruits, including many who aren't Catholic.

Private schools have to recruit every student they have.

Public schools are assigned all the students that live within specific areas or boundaries of a city, town or rural area. However, that does not mean that all those students must attend those specific schools.

Magnet schools recruit students by offering specific courses.

In the end: each parent, student and family gets to do what they think is best for their family. There are positive, negative aspects and costs unique to every choice. Let freedom reign and may we each have the choice to do public, private, charter or even home school in our individual families. That goes for all school sponsored activities…music…sports…one act play competitions… it is all good!

 

[WoodburyTim]

Yeah. They are winning because they are better.
You are 100% correct.
Would all these 4a schools be winning if they played against schools with more similar resources and affluence?
Maybe.

Nobody is saying they aren’t better. You’re correct, they’re better

I appreciate your level headed response.

I will say, I have been around to more than a few private schools in the last 10 years and have also seen the facilities that new schools like East Ridge have. It’s not even close. The newer public schools have facilities that look almost college like.

But yes I will agree that in terms of familial resources the private school kids tend to probably have more. Should their parents investment in their future be punished? A point to definitely be debated.

 

[HitMeAgainIAmStillMoving]

Prep bowl will be a lot of running too.

View attachment 34710

Are those numbers real? Are they the QB numbers or halfback option? Looks impossible.

 

[Some guy]

Public schools recruit too, but generally not at anywhere near the level of private schools. I have a ton of relatives that went to or are currently at TG, a few that were high level football players. According to them, TG has a lot of recruits, including many who aren't Catholic.

For sure.
Catholic schools recruit. So does Minnetonka. (Minnetonka literally advertises) So do a ton of public schools.

I appreciate your level headed response.

I will say, I have been around to more than a few private schools in the last 10 years and have also seen the facilities that new schools like East Ridge have. It’s not even close. The newer public schools have facilities that look almost college like.

But yes I will agree that in terms of familial resources the private school kids tend to probably have more. Should their parents investment in their future be punished? A point to definitely be debated.

i don’t think it should be punished
I think it should be counted differently.

If you count a family that pays tuition as 1.2 instead of 1.0 it probably doesn’t change the classification of 90% of private high schools.

I actually think football is a sport where it is least the problem.

I do personally feel that Totino grace, Benilde, hill Murray should be playing in 5a not 6a. Not sure counting tuition paying families as 1.2 would move any of them.
And not every kid pays tuition. So those kids obviously wouldn’t be counted as 1.2