2024 MN High School Football thread
- Thread starter short ornery norwegian
- Start date
short ornery norwegian
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2011
- Messages
- 21,363
- Reaction score
- 15,189
- Points
- 113
I get the feeling that Coach Schuller at JCC is taking the Swiss Army Knife approach. He's moving Voss around to different positions to make the best use of his athletic ability. Voss is (IMHO) the best all-around QB at running and throwing, but if you put him at TE or WR, he's the best there, too. so last year, they would put in the backup QB who could throw the ball and put Voss at receiver when they needed a big play.
same thing on defense - they would move Voss around and tell him to just go and make plays.
------
saw this note - Fairmont SR running back Elijah Johnson named to the SBLive Sports MN pre-season All-State 2nd-team offense. last year ran for 1,487 yds & 21 TD, setting new school single-game record with 289 yds. Fairmont just keeps turning out solid athletes.
--------
(PS - Windom temporary field update - looks like someone has donated enough money to rent a portable lighting system. so at this point, looks like FB games will be played at night. will report on what it looks like after season opener. assuming I can see what's going on with my terrible night vision....)
short ornery norwegian
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2011
- Messages
- 21,363
- Reaction score
- 15,189
- Points
- 113
above post got me interested, so I looked up these SBLive Sports pre-season all-state teams.
OFFENSE:
QB - Nick Kinsey - Stillwater
HB - Charles Langama - Maple Grove
HB - Elijah Rumph - Eden Prairie
WR - Meyer Swinney - Edina
WR - Cameron Begalle - Andover
TE - Kyle Fendt - East Ridge
OL - Trey Boyd, Shakopee
OL - Ryan Babatz - Buffalo
OL - Andrew Trout - Rocori
OL - Owen Linder - Chanhassen
OL - Gavin Wang - Annandale
(second team)
QB: Mason West, Jr., Edina
HB: Connor Cade, Sr., Lakeville South
HB: Elijah Johnson, Sr., Fairmont
WR: Luke Emmerich, Sr., Monticello
WR: Nolan Ginskey, Sr., Owatonna
TE: Nathan Hromadka, Sr., Maple Grove
OL: Michael Wagner, Sr., Maple Grove
OL: Cooper Mansfield, Sr., Elk River
OL: Jake Allex, Sr., Marshall
OL: Isaiah Campbell, Sr., Elk River
OL: Sam Ruid, Sr., St. Francis
------
DEFENSE:
DL: Abu Tarawallie - Providence Academy
DL: Colin Hanson - Byron
DL: Theo Thomas - Totino-Grace
DL: Howie Johnson - Forest Lake
LB - Emmanuel Karmo - Robbinsdale Cooper
LB: Chase Brixius - Benilde-St. Margaret's
LB: Kaleb Weikel - Andover
DB: Josiah Young - Totino-Grace
DB - Trillion Sorrell - Edina
DB - Damarius Russell - Waseca
DB - Brody Miller - Shakopee
(Second Team)
DL: Graysen Schneider, Sr., Stewartville
DL: Josh Wedel, Sr., Chaska
DL: Gavin Walden, Jr., Eden Prairie
DL: Michael Bruggers, Sr., Champlin Park
LB: Ethan Stendel, Sr., Caledonia
LB: Dylan Hudgens, Sr., Minnetonka
LB: Jacob Wrbanek, Sr., Maple Grove
DB: Randy Kweyete, Sr., Park Center
DB: Deron Russell, Jr., Waseca
DB: Owen Thielges, Sr., Moorhead
DB: Evan Kludt, Sr., Alexandria
OFFENSE:
QB - Nick Kinsey - Stillwater
HB - Charles Langama - Maple Grove
HB - Elijah Rumph - Eden Prairie
WR - Meyer Swinney - Edina
WR - Cameron Begalle - Andover
TE - Kyle Fendt - East Ridge
OL - Trey Boyd, Shakopee
OL - Ryan Babatz - Buffalo
OL - Andrew Trout - Rocori
OL - Owen Linder - Chanhassen
OL - Gavin Wang - Annandale
(second team)
QB: Mason West, Jr., Edina
HB: Connor Cade, Sr., Lakeville South
HB: Elijah Johnson, Sr., Fairmont
WR: Luke Emmerich, Sr., Monticello
WR: Nolan Ginskey, Sr., Owatonna
TE: Nathan Hromadka, Sr., Maple Grove
OL: Michael Wagner, Sr., Maple Grove
OL: Cooper Mansfield, Sr., Elk River
OL: Jake Allex, Sr., Marshall
OL: Isaiah Campbell, Sr., Elk River
OL: Sam Ruid, Sr., St. Francis
------
DEFENSE:
DL: Abu Tarawallie - Providence Academy
DL: Colin Hanson - Byron
DL: Theo Thomas - Totino-Grace
DL: Howie Johnson - Forest Lake
LB - Emmanuel Karmo - Robbinsdale Cooper
LB: Chase Brixius - Benilde-St. Margaret's
LB: Kaleb Weikel - Andover
DB: Josiah Young - Totino-Grace
DB - Trillion Sorrell - Edina
DB - Damarius Russell - Waseca
DB - Brody Miller - Shakopee
(Second Team)
DL: Graysen Schneider, Sr., Stewartville
DL: Josh Wedel, Sr., Chaska
DL: Gavin Walden, Jr., Eden Prairie
DL: Michael Bruggers, Sr., Champlin Park
LB: Ethan Stendel, Sr., Caledonia
LB: Dylan Hudgens, Sr., Minnetonka
LB: Jacob Wrbanek, Sr., Maple Grove
DB: Randy Kweyete, Sr., Park Center
DB: Deron Russell, Jr., Waseca
DB: Owen Thielges, Sr., Moorhead
DB: Evan Kludt, Sr., Alexandria
While not having any bearing on the HS football season, keen observers will notice that return of the "South Central Conference" this school year. The old South Central Conference was made up of schools like New Ulm, Fairmont, Waseca, Saint James, United South Central and a few I can't think of off hand. That conference disbanded some years ago with changing demographics causing big disparities between member schools.
About two years ago, several schools decided to form a new athletic conference. I believe Sibley East and Le Sueur Henderson were in a conference that was disbanding. Schools like Maple River, Lake Crystal Wellcome Memorial and Minnesota Valley Lutheran were outgrowing their conferences, playing in conferences with schools that no longer had "C" squad teams, for instance, creating scheduling difficulties for the ADs. Those five schools along with St. Clair have joined together in the new "South Central Conference," choosing the name after suggestions like SMAC (Southern Minnesota Athletic Conference) were deemed unsatisfactory. I don't believe any of the schools were prior members of the old South Central Conference.
About two years ago, several schools decided to form a new athletic conference. I believe Sibley East and Le Sueur Henderson were in a conference that was disbanding. Schools like Maple River, Lake Crystal Wellcome Memorial and Minnesota Valley Lutheran were outgrowing their conferences, playing in conferences with schools that no longer had "C" squad teams, for instance, creating scheduling difficulties for the ADs. Those five schools along with St. Clair have joined together in the new "South Central Conference," choosing the name after suggestions like SMAC (Southern Minnesota Athletic Conference) were deemed unsatisfactory. I don't believe any of the schools were prior members of the old South Central Conference.
prespsguy
Active member
- Joined
- Nov 10, 2022
- Messages
- 104
- Reaction score
- 54
- Points
- 28
Interesting observation that only seven of the first and second team defense represent 6A schools. That's 15 non-6A athletes.
Ski-U-Ham
Who hates Iowa?
- Joined
- Apr 23, 2019
- Messages
- 1,837
- Reaction score
- 2,105
- Points
- 113
As far as I can tell, you only left out St. Peter (graduated from there in 1996) and Blue Earth. USC was Wells-Easton until the early 90s I believe.
LesBolstad
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2008
- Messages
- 7,023
- Reaction score
- 3,581
- Points
- 113
Non 6A athletes outnumber 6A > 10-1 so 6A is overrepresented wouldn't you say?
6a shouldn’t exist or should be expanded to more than 32. The top third of 5a would beat the bottom third of 6a more than half the time.
prespsguy
Active member
- Joined
- Nov 10, 2022
- Messages
- 104
- Reaction score
- 54
- Points
- 28
I think its the top tier 5A teams that would push back on that.
prespsguy
Active member
- Joined
- Nov 10, 2022
- Messages
- 104
- Reaction score
- 54
- Points
- 28
I get your point and it's a good one. However, being how large the 6A schools are, they have a lot more kids to participate. I just think, and I could be wrong, 6A schools tend to have a slightly larger representation in all-state lists than this year, on the defensive side anyway.
disco
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2010
- Messages
- 4,105
- Reaction score
- 3,118
- Points
- 113
Shush - you'll call out a bat signal to Mpls. Gopher and his inane takes on high school alignment.
short ornery norwegian
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2011
- Messages
- 21,363
- Reaction score
- 15,189
- Points
- 113
well, I moved to SW MN in 1997. at that time, the South Central Conference was
St. James, New Ulm, Fairmont, St. Peter, Blue Earth and Waseca.
The Southwest Conference was
Windom, Jackson County Central, Marshall, Luverne, Pipestone, Redwood Valley and Worthington.
those conferences merged into the Big South Conference.
and this year the Big South is getting bigger with the addition of Tri-City United and Belle Plaine. putting the conference now at 15 schools. TCU and Belle Plaine were part of the MN River Conference. Reportedly Belle Plaine tried to get into the Wright County Conference but was not accepted.
I have heard some rumblings about a possible 16th member to get the Big South back to an even number for scheduling purposes, but I have no idea what school or schools might be interested.
For sure
6a was created so that 5a out state teams had a chance to compete for state titles. Now 5a is dominated by metro teams, private schools, and Mankato west
My bad
Have there been any rumblings about the smaller, less affluent schools bolting? St James and Windom come to mind. Hard to imagine St James ever being competitive with Marshall.
I would have to think it depends on the sport for the most part.
Football conferences don’t matter.
State of Football
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2018
- Messages
- 655
- Reaction score
- 492
- Points
- 63
No chance. Maybe the top 6. Hopkins is awful but after that…? Park and buffalo were top half and have struggled. Mankato West and Andover would lose by two touchdowns to the the top 12 of 6A and never get to USBank Stadium.
White bear lake, Eastview, Burnsville, Hopkins, Roseville, park, osseo, Buffalo,
All lose by two scores + to the top 15 of 5a last year
So because Andover has 6 fewer kids per grade than Burnsville they get to be a state champ where Burnsville goes 2-6? Okay
Just stupid. The cutoff is arbitrary and stupid.
I don’t even care for playoffs. Keep it the same for playoffs. For regular season expand it. Design the statewide schedule for the 8 game regular season not the 1-6 game playoff
short ornery norwegian
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2011
- Messages
- 21,363
- Reaction score
- 15,189
- Points
- 113
they do a lot of scheduling by divisions. some sports go East/West. other sports go Large Schools/Small schools. Basketball is divided into three separate divisions.
so they try to avoid too many matchups where the big schools would beat up on the small schools.
and as noted, football plays in its own Districts, so that's not an issue. before the MSHSL went to District scheduling for football, it was getting pretty dicey when you had a Windom or St. James playing a school like Marshall.
State of Football
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2018
- Messages
- 655
- Reaction score
- 492
- Points
- 63
Just stupid, top 32, next 64, next 64, etc. it isn’t arbitrary.
5A coaches don’t want that or they’d propose it. Remember that they proposed top 32 because of the enrollment disparity.
It is literary aribitary
Why 32 and not 34? Why not 28?
Why 64?
No kidding chanhassen doesn’t want to play Minnetonka and wayzata
Neither do osseo or Burnsville…
I would make the schedule for the top teams the biggest 48 (yes 48 is an arbitrary number). Put in geographic groups of 6. Play all 5 weeks 3-7. Self schedule weeks 1-2 and 8 within that 48. But I care about competitive regular season schedules for everyone instead of gaming the playoffs so st Thomas academy and chaska and elk river can have more chances at state titles
State of Football
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2018
- Messages
- 655
- Reaction score
- 492
- Points
- 63
And then force smaller classes to have to play more teams in post season with greater enrollment disproportion? They’ll love that. You’re always going to have a “bottom” to each class. It sounds like you don’t the top of 5A football. Why not make 6A 16 teams? It would be about right competitively with enrollments of 2500 or bigger?
64 and 32 are not arbitrary when you consider 4 sections, 8 sections with an 8 game regular season.
You’re right. Andover and elk River have two fewer kids than mayo and Burnsville per grade…which means it is fair Burnsville and mayo play those schools but it would be unfair for Andover and elk River to.
That is why it is arbitrary. There is no reason behind 32 more than any other number divisible by 4.
The MSHSL’s job isn’t to make 5a schools love them.
Correct. Which is why you should let teams play teams from other classes for a game or two.
Saying that some schools have favorable placements and other schools have really bad placements doesn’t mean I don’t like them. Elk River would have beaten Hopkins 15 teams the last 15 years and yet Hopkins plays a tougher schedule because they have 11 more kids per grade.
Good question. Wouldn’t solve the issue that I’m talking about though
Yes.
Why is 6a 32? 5a 64
The fact that they are different for different classes proves that 32 for 6a is arbitrary, why not 64 for 6a? Why not 16?
short ornery norwegian
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2011
- Messages
- 21,363
- Reaction score
- 15,189
- Points
- 113
a "competitive schedule" suggests that teams are relatively close in terms of talent/ability.
which is a nice concept, but in reality, is a lot harder to accomplish. you take any grouping of teams you want - by enrollment - by geography - by conference - and within each group, some teams are going to be better than other teams.
and the MSHSL cannot equalize talent. you cannot legislate parity.
during the course of a season, there will be mismatches. there will be lopsided scores. because some teams are just better than other teams.
now, the MSHSL has allowed some teams to "play down" in their schedules - a team in Class AA by enrollment is allowed to play a schedule against Class A teams. the idea is that an "easier" schedule will encourage more kids to go out for football and help keep programs viable.
that gets stickier at the upper levels. would a losing 6A team willingly accept a 5A schedule - which is essentially admitting that it can't compete at its own level? I don't know.
but again, no matter what system you use - even if you go back to the old conference system - you cannot legislate parity. some schools are just going to be better than other schools.
which is a nice concept, but in reality, is a lot harder to accomplish. you take any grouping of teams you want - by enrollment - by geography - by conference - and within each group, some teams are going to be better than other teams.
and the MSHSL cannot equalize talent. you cannot legislate parity.
during the course of a season, there will be mismatches. there will be lopsided scores. because some teams are just better than other teams.
now, the MSHSL has allowed some teams to "play down" in their schedules - a team in Class AA by enrollment is allowed to play a schedule against Class A teams. the idea is that an "easier" schedule will encourage more kids to go out for football and help keep programs viable.
that gets stickier at the upper levels. would a losing 6A team willingly accept a 5A schedule - which is essentially admitting that it can't compete at its own level? I don't know.
but again, no matter what system you use - even if you go back to the old conference system - you cannot legislate parity. some schools are just going to be better than other schools.
State of Football
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2018
- Messages
- 655
- Reaction score
- 492
- Points
- 63
Agreed
State of Football
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2018
- Messages
- 655
- Reaction score
- 492
- Points
- 63
It’s 32
It’s 32 because that’s the minimum number for a class according to policy. Facts are important.
Last year 48% of 6A regular season football games were margins of 20+
The MSHSL is destroying 10-12 of the largest programs in the state by saying they’re only allowed to play teams that are in the top 32 biggest.
6a football is dying. Last year a couple of 6a teams weren’t playing JV or sophomore football by the end of the year.
lol it’s 32 because that’s the rule
No shit. I am not disagreeing with what the the policies are, I am saying the policies are stupid and ruining football.
Gopherwatcher
Active member
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2013
- Messages
- 258
- Reaction score
- 172
- Points
- 43
I agree with you that 6A football is dying, but I think you are missing the point on why. It's not just 6A that's dying. Football is dying at every level. I've been coaching for over 25 years and the numbers of players in our program and programs all around us are plummeting. It's a societal thing. Sure, the highly successful schools are still getting good numbers of kids out, but even the biggest name schools in the state have seen their numbers drop in the past 10 years. I heard at the football clinic this past spring that at many 6A schools, their numbers in the feeder programs are down 30-40%. Coach Grant said they used to get 100 kids outs out as 9th graders and now they get 40-50.
Some of the schools we play don't even have a JV team anymore which leads to fewer 9th and 10th graders playing which snowballs into their varsity failing in a couple seasons. Football is in serious trouble below the AAA level.
The difference is in 6a they put 6a on an island and just letting it die.
They’re at least changing things up at lower levels trying to make progress.