2024 MN High School Football thread

Last year 48% of 6A regular season football games were margins of 20+

The MSHSL is destroying 10-12 of the largest programs in the state by saying they’re only allowed to play teams that are in the top 32 biggest.

6a football is dying. Last year a couple of 6a teams weren’t playing JV or sophomore


football by the end of the year.
No different than any other class. Andover, Moorhead and Rogers will be 6A next year. This might help your favorite team. Minnesota gives the greatest flexibility to compete equitably at the HS level. Some just need to get better with the students they have. If Hopkins basketball kids played, they’d be much improved. It’s a local conundrum not the rest of the State’s probto fix
 

No different than any other class. Andover, Moorhead and Rogers will be 6A next year. This might help your favorite team. Minnesota gives the greatest flexibility to compete equitably at the HS level. Some just need to get better with the students they have. If Hopkins basketball kids played, they’d be much improved. It’s a local conundrum not the rest of the State’s probto fix
Then why did the state try to fix the problem by creating a 7th class and taking over scheduling

Your logic is circular?
Hopkins problems are not the states to fix? But wayzata and Eden prairies scheduling problems were?
Owatonna Rochester and Brainerd not being able to compete for state titles were?


Any time the state is picking winners they’re also picking losers. When the state says no 5a teams can play 6a teams because it is unfair, they are sentencing someone else to a loss.




It is funny because what you say is exactly correct but it is the exact opposite of the last 12 years of action by the MSHSL. I agree with your thoughts nearly 100%. I disagree with your interpretation of what has happened nearly 100%
 

The difference is in 6a they put 6a on an island and just letting it die.
They’re at least changing things up at lower levels trying to make progress.
How are they changing it up at lower levels? The state dictates the class we play in regardless of a school's success?
 

How are they changing it up at lower levels? The state dictates the class we play in regardless of a school's success?
I admittedly don’t follow much northern Minnesota football. But in southeastern Minnesota schedules and assignments have changed rapidly. Teams like Lourdes, Pine Island, Byron, PEM etc

Not sure it is better, but at least they’re trying.

6a is plug and play for 10 years at this point. It was built stupidly and they’re going to drive it into the ground.
 

I admittedly don’t follow much northern Minnesota football. But in southeastern Minnesota schedules and assignments have changed rapidly. Teams like Lourdes, Pine Island, Byron, PEM etc

Not sure it is better, but at least they’re trying.

6a is plug and play for 10 years at this point. It was built stupidly and they’re going to drive it into the ground.
They've changed because enrollments can change drastically in smaller schools. Byron used to be AA and have grown rapidly to AAAA. Conversely, schools like Southland and Kingsland went from AA to 9-man in a matter of 6 years. Those massive swings in enrollment just don't happen as quickly in those larger schools. (That I'm aware of.)

The only thing the MSHSL can use to determine classification or district alignment is enrollment. Would I like to see football schedules go back to being locally controlled? Sure, I wasn't a fan when it was switched to district football, but I could see powerhouse schools in the rural areas now find it difficult to build a schedule if it was all independent. Or you'd see conferences disbanding or booting teams out that had powerhouse football programs. Football is such a different animal than any other high school sport.

How do you think that would work in the Metro having each school create their own schedule? (I am not an expert on the metro schools, obviously.)
 


Back to football: I am going to take a shot at who I think may be the top ten 6A schools in the state to start the season. They are in no particular order. As a discussion piece, which teams should not be included in my top ten, which teams should I have included but were emitted?

Lakeville North
Lakeville South
Shakopee
Eden Prairie
Edina
Minnetonka
Maple Grove
Centennial
Stillwater
East Ridge
 

They've changed because enrollments can change drastically in smaller schools. Byron used to be AA and have grown rapidly to AAAA. Conversely, schools like Southland and Kingsland went from AA to 9-man in a matter of 6 years. Those massive swings in enrollment just don't happen as quickly in those larger schools. (That I'm aware of.)

The only thing the MSHSL can use to determine classification or district alignment is enrollment. Would I like to see football schedules go back to being locally controlled? Sure, I wasn't a fan when it was switched to district football, but I could see powerhouse schools in the rural areas now find it difficult to build a schedule if it was all independent. Or you'd see conferences disbanding or booting teams out that had powerhouse football programs. Football is such a different animal than any other high school sport.

How do you think that would work in the Metro having each school create their own schedule? (I am not an expert on the metro schools, obviously.)
The metro always worked well for all but a half dozen schools or so.

MSHSL has broken it beyond repair. I would be in favor of conferences breaking free of MSHSL for football. No state title. Just play self selected like schools for a conference title.
 

Back to football: I am going to take a shot at who I think may be the top ten 6A schools in the state to start the season. They are in no particular order. As a discussion piece, which teams should not be included in my top ten, which teams should I have included but were emitted?

Lakeville North
Lakeville South
Shakopee
Eden Prairie
Edina
Minnetonka
Maple Grove
Centennial
Stillwater
East Ridge
I think Edina takes a little step back. All the talk about their QB but their RB is who made that offense go.
 

Back to football: I am going to take a shot at who I think may be the top ten 6A schools in the state to start the season. They are in no particular order. As a discussion piece, which teams should not be included in my top ten, which teams should I have included but were emitted?

Lakeville North
Lakeville South
Shakopee
Eden Prairie
Edina
Minnetonka
Maple Grove
Centennial
Stillwater
East Ridge
Thank you!
 



The metro always worked well for all but a half dozen schools or so.

MSHSL has broken it beyond repair. I would be in favor of conferences breaking free of MSHSL for football. No state title. Just play self selected like schools for a conference title.
That was proposed 2 years ago and the schools said no. The MSHSL is the schools
 

That was proposed 2 years ago and the schools said no. The MSHSL is the schools
What was proposed?

The MSHSL is not the schools. The MSHSL is representatives of the schools subject to politics, special interests, engagement levels of athletics directors and administrstors

Saying the MSHSL is the schools is like saying the U.S. House is the people of the country
 

I feel like we get this debate between these two about every twelve months.
 

I feel like we get this debate between these two about every twelve months.
Not really a debate. Glad you chimed in though. Who are your favorites in high school football this year? Got any dark horse candidates?
 



now, the MSHSL has allowed some teams to "play down" in their schedules - a team in Class AA by enrollment is allowed to play a schedule against Class A teams. the idea is that an "easier" schedule will encourage more kids to go out for football and help keep programs viable.
How does that help the teams in Class A? Doesn't it just discourage them and make it a bigger problem for schools that have less enrollment to begin with? Or do people just not care about Class A football?
 

How does that help the teams in Class A? Doesn't it just discourage them and make it a bigger problem for schools that have less enrollment to begin with? Or do people just not care about Class A football?

in the cases I'm thinking of, I'm talking about AA programs that were teetering on the edge of extinction - where participation was dropping and the games were not competitive. so when the AA schools were allowed to play an A schedule, they were more competitive but certainly not dominating.

enrollment does not always correlate to participation. I've seen 9-man programs where they have more kids out for football than many A schools or even some struggling AA schools.

it's that vicious cycle. a program starts losing - kids don't want to participate - the team keeps losing - which makes it harder to get kids to participate. in those specific situations, the football districts have allowed schools to play down a class because the alternative was for the struggling programs to fold up or consolidate. and consolidation is often not the answer, because that typically forces the consolidating schools to move up to a higher class due to combined enrollment.

its a "break glass in case of emergency" solution.
 

in the cases I'm thinking of, I'm talking about AA programs that were teetering on the edge of extinction - where participation was dropping and the games were not competitive. so when the AA schools were allowed to play an A schedule, they were more competitive but certainly not dominating.

enrollment does not always correlate to participation. I've seen 9-man programs where they have more kids out for football than many A schools or even some struggling AA schools.

it's that vicious cycle. a program starts losing - kids don't want to participate - the team keeps losing - which makes it harder to get kids to participate. in those specific situations, the football districts have allowed schools to play down a class because the alternative was for the struggling programs to fold up or consolidate. and consolidation is often not the answer, because that typically forces the consolidating schools to move up to a higher class due to combined enrollment.

its a "break glass in case of emergency" solution.
Very true. And something I think you will continue to see more and more of at the lower levels. It's not just the "losing" schools whose football numbers are dropping. It's happening even at schools that are highly successful.

I hope it changes, but most kids don't dream of being pro football or basketball players anymore. They dream of being "professional" TikTokkers or YouTubers or whatever the hell an "influencer" is.
 

Not really a debate. Glad you chimed in though. Who are your favorites in high school football this year? Got any dark horse candidates?
And good timing with new Districts a year from now.

Byron could be a team that makes some noise. Moorhead is probably a year away but will be in the top enrollments as well. It’ll be interesting to see how far Chan and Andover fall
 

And good timing with new Districts a year from now.

Byron could be a team that makes some noise. Moorhead is probably a year away but will be in the top enrollments as well. It’ll be interesting to see how far Chan and Andover fall
What class is Byron? What do they have? MH has 6A enrollment in 5A. They play teams like Sartell and Tech that win one game a year. They are playing the coaches kid as a freshman at QB and a 160 freshman RB last year.
 

What class is Byron? What do they have? MH has 6A enrollment in 5A. They play teams like Sartell and Tech that win one game a year. They are playing the coaches kid as a freshman at QB and a 160 freshman RB last year.
Byron was 4a second place next year

MSHSL is going to blow up when Moorhead ends up 6a

Will be sweet
 

Byron was 4a second place next year

MSHSL is going to blow up when Moorhead ends up 6a

Will be sweet
Byron is basically a suburb of Rochester now, and as Rochester continues to grow, so will its' outlying areas.
 

I agree with you that 6A football is dying, but I think you are missing the point on why. It's not just 6A that's dying. Football is dying at every level. I've been coaching for over 25 years and the numbers of players in our program and programs all around us are plummeting. It's a societal thing. Sure, the highly successful schools are still getting good numbers of kids out, but even the biggest name schools in the state have seen their numbers drop in the past 10 years. I heard at the football clinic this past spring that at many 6A schools, their numbers in the feeder programs are down 30-40%. Coach Grant said they used to get 100 kids outs out as 9th graders and now they get 40-50.

Some of the schools we play don't even have a JV team anymore which leads to fewer 9th and 10th graders playing which snowballs into their varsity failing in a couple seasons. Football is in serious trouble below the AAA level.
Obviously we've been over this before, but I maintain that the single biggest reason for decline in football isn't fear of injury/concussion/CTE. It's specialization.

I coached in the Wayzata youth program through last year. Not coaching this year for a number of reasons, but literally EVERY other sport seemed to take priority over football. We had kids miss practice for hockey, baseball, soccer etc. Football is only about a 7-8 week season compared to the year-round training and leagues for almost everything else. It was incredibly frustrating.

I know the association is concerned about the numbers going forward, as well as the size of the kids going out for football in the next few years. And this is from the feeder program for one of the two (by FAR) largest high schools in the state.
 

Obviously we've been over this before, but I maintain that the single biggest reason for decline in football isn't fear of injury/concussion/CTE. It's specialization.

I coached in the Wayzata youth program through last year. Not coaching this year for a number of reasons, but literally EVERY other sport seemed to take priority over football. We had kids miss practice for hockey, baseball, soccer etc. Football is only about a 7-8 week season compared to the year-round training and leagues for almost everything else. It was incredibly frustrating.

I know the association is concerned about the numbers going forward, as well as the size of the kids going out for football in the next few years. And this is from the feeder program for one of the two (by FAR) largest high schools in the state.
Yeah. The best thing about football is you can’t really specialize but that also leads to its demise for a lot of kids who want to specialize and pick something else
 
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Obviously we've been over this before, but I maintain that the single biggest reason for decline in football isn't fear of injury/concussion/CTE. It's specialization.

I coached in the Wayzata youth program through last year. Not coaching this year for a number of reasons, but literally EVERY other sport seemed to take priority over football. We had kids miss practice for hockey, baseball, soccer etc. Football is only about a 7-8 week season compared to the year-round training and leagues for almost everything else. It was incredibly frustrating.

I know the association is concerned about the numbers going forward, as well as the size of the kids going out for football in the next few years. And this is from the feeder program for one of the two (by FAR) largest high schools in the state.
I think you're probably right on this. Soccer, even at U9 can be about a 10-month season (including September) if the kids decide to play fall season (most do).
 

I think you're probably right on this. Soccer, even at U9 can be about a 10-month season (including September) if the kids decide to play fall season (most do).
And whether right or wrong, those sports (soccer, hockey, even swimming) will put the hard sell on parents to have their kid in year round programs. Neighbor kid plays soccer, and they basically tell you, if you aren't in the 10 month program, we don't see your commitment and you get to be put on the worst team.
 

And whether right or wrong, those sports (soccer, hockey, even swimming) will put the hard sell on parents to have their kid in year round programs. Neighbor kid plays soccer, and they basically tell you, if you aren't in the 10 month program, we don't see your commitment and you get to be put on the worst team.
I will say that can vary from club to club (and coach to coach) as far as the hard sell. I never hold it against a kid if they are playing a winter sport as long as they show up when they can. I'm speaking about club soccer... I'm guessing hockey is less flexible.
 

Happy first day of practice - except for teams playing Zero Week games. I believe there are a few Zero Week games this season, but so far, the various web sites have not posted complete 2024 schedules. as of now, the MN Football Hub is only showing 1 Zero Week game (Breck vs St. Anthony on Fri, 8/23).

MN Scores.net has not posted its schedules yet.

gee, wouldn't it be nice if the MN State High School League had a website where they could post all of the schedules? what a great idea, but it sounds like a lot of work, so we probably can't expect their poor, over-worked staff to even consider something like that.........

just checked - the Iowa State HS Athletic Association has full-season schedules on its website. it's a miracle.......
 

Happy first day of practice - except for teams playing Zero Week games. I believe there are a few Zero Week games this season, but so far, the various web sites have not posted complete 2024 schedules. as of now, the MN Football Hub is only showing 1 Zero Week game (Breck vs St. Anthony on Fri, 8/23).

MN Scores.net has not posted its schedules yet.

gee, wouldn't it be nice if the MN State High School League had a website where they could post all of the schedules? what a great idea, but it sounds like a lot of work, so we probably can't expect their poor, over-worked staff to even consider something like that.........

just checked - the Iowa State HS Athletic Association has full-season schedules on its website. it's a miracle.......
They took over the statewide schedule they just don’t want to tell people what it is
 

Happy first day of practice - except for teams playing Zero Week games. I believe there are a few Zero Week games this season, but so far, the various web sites have not posted complete 2024 schedules. as of now, the MN Football Hub is only showing 1 Zero Week game (Breck vs St. Anthony on Fri, 8/23).

MN Scores.net has not posted its schedules yet.

gee, wouldn't it be nice if the MN State High School League had a website where they could post all of the schedules? what a great idea, but it sounds like a lot of work, so we probably can't expect their poor, over-worked staff to even consider something like that.........

just checked - the Iowa State HS Athletic Association has full-season schedules on its website. it's a miracle.......
That the MSHSL doesn't publish schedules, stats, records, accurately is a joke.
 

They took over the statewide schedule they just don’t want to tell people what it is
It's not that hard with technology. Each conference typically has a complete schedule posted and you would think it could tie to MSHSL and auto update to that site.

Here are my top two in each section for 6A:
3-6A
Lakeville North
Lakeville South
4-6A
Stillwater
East Ridge
5-6A
Maple Grove
Blaine
6-6A
Eden Prairie
Minnetonka
 

I will say that can vary from club to club (and coach to coach) as far as the hard sell. I never hold it against a kid if they are playing a winter sport as long as they show up when they can. I'm speaking about club soccer... I'm guessing hockey is less flexible.
I am aware of high school coaching staffs strongly suggesting to their prospective players that if they aren't playing year round, their chance of making the team, let alone actually playing, will be very low. The most reliable source was a bigger school volleyball program more or less telling a player they couldn't go out for basketball and expecting to make the volleyball team the following fall. The player is/was good at both sports. So it isn't necessarily the club, its the school coaching staffs.

Even if it were limited to pressure from club teams, why aren't parents telling the coaches to go pound sand and letting their kids play on what is deemed the lesser team? Youth sports is so far out of hand....
 




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