2020 Minnesota Vikings Off-Season Thread

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howeda7 said:
Gary Kubiak is officially the OC. I am very much in favor of drafting a QB for him to coach up. He made Matt Schaub, Trevor Simien and even Brock Ossweiler look good.
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He can’t make Cousins look good this coming season?

I would not agree with spending early draft picks on a QB when we have glaring needs on OL and elsewhere.

Cousins can win the confernece if we give him top level protection. His worst attribute is his ability to get away from pressure and make something happen. Only the very best of the best can. But outside that context, in a good pocket, he can sling the ball.
 

MplsGopher said:
He can’t make Cousins look good this coming season?

I would not agree with spending early draft picks on a QB when we have glaring needs on OL and elsewhere.

Cousins can win the confernece if we give him top level protection. His worst attribute is his ability to get away from pressure and make something happen. Only the very best of the best can. But outside that context, in a good pocket, he can sling the ball.
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Sure. But I want to groom the next guy at the same time. That's why I'm in favor of trading Smith and Cook. If we can have 5 picks in the 1st 3 rounds, we can draft a QB and still have 4 picks to rebuild the defense. Fix the O-line in FA. I would pick Jalen Hurts at #25 and then spend the rest of the picks on defense.
 

howeda7 said:
Sure. But I want to groom the next guy at the same time. That's why I'm in favor of trading Smith and Cook. If we can have 5 picks in the 1st 3 rounds, we can draft a QB and still have 4 picks to rebuild the defense. Fix the O-line in FA. I would pick Jalen Hurts at #25 and then spend the rest of the picks on defense.
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I want Jordan Love, but will probably be gone by the time Vikings pick.

But one more year of Cousins, and rookie learn, and start the following season
 

howeda7 said:
Sure. But I want to groom the next guy at the same time. That's why I'm in favor of trading Smith and Cook. If we can have 5 picks in the 1st 3 rounds, we can draft a QB and still have 4 picks to rebuild the defense. Fix the O-line in FA. I would pick Jalen Hurts at #25 and then spend the rest of the picks on defense.
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Sounds like a good proposal, except I’m worried about the FA OL part. The best OL we have, we drafted (Brad and ONeil). Yes, also the worst (Elf). The FA we have are highly paid but not great.

To really fix the OL right, in FA, is going to cost an arm, leg, and maybe a soul. We can’t afford it. So I say spend some good draft picks on OL.
 

howeda7 said:
I would say the defense is getting old. Not the entire team.

Which is why they need to move on from Griffin, Joseph, Rhodes and Smith and invest the draft on D. Fix the O-line in FA.
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Agree but the last time Spielman tried that with the OL he ended up with 2 miserable signings- not sure the scouting dept judges OL talent well
 



Oregon Gopher said:
Agree but the last time Spielman tried that with the OL he ended up with 2 miserable signings- not sure the scouting dept judges OL talent well
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I'd be fine with firing Rick. But that's not going to happen. I don't think Reiff was his first choice. They need to be agressive and go after the top guys.

Also, his draft record with O-lineman isn't much better. Kalil was only good one year. Same with Elflein. Bradbury TBD. O'Neill is good. 1/4 isn't great.
 

howeda7 said:
I'd be fine with firing Rick. But that's not going to happen. I don't think Reiff was his first choice. They need to be agressive and go after the top guys.

Also, his draft record with O-lineman isn't much better. Kalil was only good one year. Same with Elflein. Bradbury TBD. O'Neill is good. 1/4 isn't great.
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Especially because they are 3rd round or better picks
 

Part of the problem with the Vikings rebuild is that we'll have a hard time bottoming out when we have Detroit on our schedule.

If we lose the two games against Detroit this year, we're just an 8-8 team and we're looking at a rebuild. We have a false sense that we are better than that because of the win over the Saints.
(Saints won games against Atlanta, a bad Carolina team, and Tampa Bay so they could be a bit over-inflated as well).

But say we really are a 10-6 team, maybe we can improve enough to compete next year. Issue is the areas of improvement usually come from a dominant defender stepping up their game or a QB being entered into the mix who can carry the team.

In both cases, we are locked in and unlikely to improve by that much of a degree. We also don't have the cash to acquire the other pieces to improve significantly.

I think if we take the same schedule and the same roster, we expect to win less than 10 next year as being more likely than a greater than 10 win season.
 




Face The Facts said:
Part of the problem with the Vikings rebuild is that we'll have a hard time bottoming out when we have Detroit on our schedule.

If we lose the two games against Detroit this year, we're just an 8-8 team and we're looking at a rebuild. We have a false sense that we are better than that because of the win over the Saints.
(Saints won games against Atlanta, a bad Carolina team, and Tampa Bay so they could be a bit over-inflated as well).

But say we really are a 10-6 team, maybe we can improve enough to compete next year. Issue is the areas of improvement usually come from a dominant defender stepping up their game or a QB being entered into the mix who can carry the team.

In both cases, we are locked in and unlikely to improve by that much of a degree. We also don't have the cash to acquire the other pieces to improve significantly.

I think if we take the same schedule and the same roster, we expect to win less than 10 next year as being more likely than a greater than 10 win season.
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On the flip side, we did just as well in SF as GB did. That could’ve just as well been us in the final 4 teams.

But like I said, anything short of a Super Bowl willbe go-him to fans.
 


stocker08 said:
I realize that a good offensive line is a key to the running game. My point is that, with a Delvin Cook like player at the RB position, it would make them that more dangerous. Because using your logic....a good passing game is unnecessary as well.
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How so? You can't pay everyone a lot of money. The most money should be spent on a QB, OL, DL, and not on a RB.
 



We don't need a QB if we have a solid OL. Cousins has proven he can be elite when he's protected and miserable when he's not. Improve the OL, and we'll have better running and better passing.
 

howeda7 said:
They're right around the cap right now. Cutting Reif, Josph and Rhodes and trading Smith should clear $35 million +.
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And how much would it cost to fix the OL in FA, and do it right? And what about DL and CB?

Why am I wrong to say, let's fix DL and CB in FA and fix the OL in draft? Why are you correct to want it the other way around?
 

Face The Facts said:
Part of the problem with the Vikings rebuild is that we'll have a hard time bottoming out when we have Detroit on our schedule.
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What sense are you talking about? Are you saying it will be difficult for the Vikings to acquire the tip-top draft picks, without trading for them, because they can never get their record low enough?

Another sense would be the following thing .... it's a somewhat conspiracy type argument I've heard floated: the Vikings will never get to the top because their fans are too diehard. They'll sell out the stadium no matter what happens, therefore there is no incentive to do what needs to be done to win it all.

The "example" that supposedly proves this idea is SF. When the 9ers were horrible, people stopped coming to the stadium. They say that caused the owners to do what needed to be done in order to win, and now here they are.


What do people think about this argument? I could see people saying it's silly, and probably agree. But with the NFL, you just never know ....
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
How so? You can't pay everyone a lot of money. The most money should be spent on a QB, OL, DL, and not on a RB.
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Your stance was that a good running back isn't necessary. San Francisco made the super bowl by passing about 200 yards in two games! So...by your logic...a passing game isn't all that important.

And I agree with you on the line. It's the #1 most important spot that needs to be addressed. Should have been fixed five years ago.

I disagree that running back is throw away position. Talented backs can find extra yards, which isn't easy. Look at the Titans. Henry was their offense.
 
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stocker08 said:
Talented backs can find extra yards, which isn't easy. Look at the Titans. Henry was their offense.
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But that's not the argument.

The argument is if those backs deserved to be paid huge dollars. Henry was still under his rookie contract this season. In fact, he played this season without an extension, and he still (at least as far as I know at the moment) hasn't been offered a new, big FA contract by the Titans.
 

MplsGopher said:
But that's not the argument.

The argument is if those backs deserved to be paid huge dollars. Henry was still under his rookie contract this season. In fact, he played this season without an extension, and he still (at least as far as I know at the moment) hasn't been offered a new, big FA contract by the Titans.
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That's a fair point. But let's say that Henry walks....are the Titans going to make the AFC championship game next year? With some backup guy?
 

stocker08 said:
Your stance was that a good running back isn't necessary. San Francisco made the super bowl by passing about 200 yards in two games! So...by your logic...a passing game isn't all that important.

And I agree with you on the line. It's the #1 most important spot that needs to be addressed. Should have been fixed five years ago.

I disagree that running back is throw away position. Talented backs can find extra yards, which isn't easy. Look at the Titans. Henry was their offense.
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Where the Titans season end? The AFC championship. The Vikings almost always have a talented RB, and continue to fail to reach the Super Bowl. A great RB only gets you so far.

San Francisco is a bit of an anomaly this season, but I also think they'll lose in the Super Bowl because the Chiefs have the best QB in the league. And that's the goal right? To win a Super Bowl. The Vikings haven't even been to one in my lifetime.
 

MplsGopher said:
And how much would it cost to fix the OL in FA, and do it right? And what about DL and CB?

Why am I wrong to say, let's fix DL and CB in FA and fix the OL in draft? Why are you correct to want it the other way around?
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They need to rebuild the left side. Bradbury at center, Kline at RG and O'Neill at RT is fine. Get the best LT in FA you can. For LG either a lesser FA or a draft pick. Fix the D through the draft mostly.
 


Honest question: given the numbers below, can we get a significantly better LT in FA??

https://overthecap.com/contract-embed/1068/

(EDIT: I guess you can't embed the html, but just follow the link)

Also, to be honest LG hurt us more than LT, and C at times too, when it came to Cousins getting pressured and thus being useless in a particular play.

We need big upgrades at both positions, maybe RG too, if Cousins is going to be successful enough to beat teams with great pass rushes.
 

Charley Walters: Wilfs must decide whether to keep spending or rebuild

Contrary to popular perception, managing the Vikings’ tight salary cap isn’t magic. What it really comes down to is how much money ownership, which has been abundantly generous the last several years, is willing to spend in its long-stated quest for the Lombardi Trophy.

The issue for the Wilfs now is whether to continue to spend or scale back and rebuild.

Spielman, Zimmer and Cousins are signed for just this year. A parallel situation to that of the Vikings is the Atlanta Falcons, a team that has spent a lot of money, has been on the verge of contending but hasn’t fulfilled its promise.

The Falcons committed a lot of money ($150 million, with $100 million guaranteed over five years) to QB Matt Ryan, and wide receiver Julio Jones ($66 million guaranteed for three years). Ryan turns 35 years old this spring; Jones turns 31 next month.

Falcons GM Thomas Dimitroff and coach Dan Quinn are under contract for three more years, so they weren’t fired after this season’s 7-9 finish.

The Wilfs could extend Spielman, Zimmer or Cousins, who has completed the second season of a guaranteed $84 million, three-year contract, or ride out next season, then see what happens.

What is interesting is that the Vikings, if Kevin Stefanski was to be their head coaching future, didn’t make a move to keep the young (37) offensive coordinator, who has taken the head coaching job of the Cleveland Browns.

www.twincities.com

Charley Walters: Wilfs must decide whether to keep spending or rebuild

Only the owners of the Minnesota Vikings back in New Jersey, Zygi and Mark Wilf, have an idea what their team will look like next season and beyond. And they haven’t indicated that yet. Going forw…
www.twincities.com www.twincities.com

Skol Vikes!!
https://www.twincities.com/2020/01/...ther-to-spend-or-rebuild/?share=facebook&nb=1
 

Vikes’ 2021 Super Bowl Path Unclear

The Vikings, while deserving of a top 10 ranking among NFL teams, are clearly inferior to the two teams playing in tonight’s Super Bowl—the Chiefs and 49er’s. The question in this town is whether in the next 12 months Minnesota can transition to a Super Bowl quality team.

During the regular season the AFC Champion Chiefs, playing without star quarterback Patrick Mahomes, defeated the Vikings 26-23 in Kansas City. In the playoffs, the 49er’s dominated the Vikings and embarrassed them 27-10 in Santa Clara. The Vikings’ best moment in either the regular season or playoffs was their opening postseason win, 26-10, versus the Saints in New Orleans. Minnesota mostly struggled against quality opposition in a 10-6 regular season.

Whatever the Vikings lack, whether it’s more star power, team speed, work ethic, player development or better coaching, general manager Rick Spielman, head coach Mike Zimmer and other decision makers better execute on a to-do list in the offseason. There is a truism in football that warns: “Your team either gets better or worse from season to season, but never stays the same.”


Skol Vikes!!
 

per Sid:

• ESPN ranked the Vikings ninth in its NFL power rankings for next season, as did the Sporting News. USA Today had them No. 11.

• Pro Football Focus ran its list of the top 100 free agents in the NFL, and Vikings safety Anthony Harris was at No. 8. Also on the list were Trae Waynes (45), Mackensie Alexander (65) and Jayron Kearse (89).

www.startribune.com

Twins' anticipation runs high with addition of Josh Donaldson

www.startribune.com www.startribune.com

Skol Vikes!!
 


Sid: Mike Zimmer knows Vikings defense needs big improvement

When Mike Zimmer starts the 2020 season, only Bud Grant and Dennis Green will have coached the Vikings longer than him.

The fact is that he was hired because the Wilf family and the Vikings front office believed he could turn the team into a dominant defensive club, and Zimmer has done just that.

Since Zimmer took over as coach in 2014, the Vikings rank No. 2 in the NFL in points against with 1,848, trailing only the New England Patriots.

But even Zimmer would admit that the Vikings defense struggled a bit during a 2019 season that saw them reach the postseason for the third time in his tenure, win a playoff game at New Orleans and ultimately fall at San Francisco to a 49ers team that should have won the Super Bowl.

If you want to know how a defense can rank fifth in the NFL in points against, like the Vikings did in 2019, and still need big changes, consider that they had five games in which they gave up 140 rushing yards or more, and they lost all five games.

That included giving up 184 rushing yards to the Packers in a Week 16 loss at home and 144 yards in a Week 2 loss at Green Bay.

The trend continued in the playoffs, when the 49ers ran for 186 yards and completely dominated the Vikings defense in a 27-10 victory.


Overall, the Vikings defense ranked 14th in the NFL in 2019, tied for the worst mark in Zimmer’s tenure.

www.startribune.com

Mike Zimmer knows Vikings defense needs big improvement

The Vikings defense ranked only 14th in 2019, and it was gashed by running backs far too often.
www.startribune.com www.startribune.com

Skol Vikes!!
 

Sid: Everson Griffen's likely exit should help ease Vikings' salary cap problems

The first big move impacting the Vikings’ salary cap situation happened Thursday when defensive end Everson Griffen opted out of his contract, making him an unrestricted free agent.

That moved dropped the Vikings from having the largest salary cap number in the NFL at $211.5 million, according to Spotrac.com, to the sixth-largest number at $197.6 million, which ranks behind the Jaguars, Steelers, Chiefs, Bears and 49ers.

Salary cap trouble is going to be the big story for the Vikings this offseason, much like it was last year, and the national media has noticed.

The headline in Pro Football Focus last week read, “How the Minnesota Vikings should navigate the worst cap situation in the NFL.” Bill Barnwell of ESPN.com wrote that the Vikings’ No. 1 priority for the 2020 season was to create some cap space.

But in order to do that, they’re going to lose some star power.

Griffen figures to be done as a Viking after 10 seasons in which he became one of the most feared pass rushers in the NFL, totaling 74½ sacks over 147 games, including eight in 2019.

But Griffen isn’t the only big-name player the Vikings might lose.

Cornerback Xavier Rhodes is considered a likely cut candidate, but doing that would only open up around $8 million in salary cap.

www.startribune.com

Everson Griffen's likely exit should help ease Vikings' salary cap problems

But the Vikings have a long way to go, meaning other high-salary players might also be trimmed.
www.startribune.com www.startribune.com

Skol Vikes!!
 

ESPN: Vikings are not trying to move on from WR Stefon Diggs, says GM Rick Spielman

Stefon Diggs is very much a part of the Minnesota Vikings' plans for the 2020 season.

In the wake of recent trade rumors and speculation over the wide receiver's future in Minnesota, Vikings general manager Rick Spielman dispelled the notion that the team is attempting to move on from Diggs.

"He's not only a major part of our offense and a major part of our organization winning games, but he also does a lot of things for this organization off the field," Spielman said. "There's no reason - the rumors or whatever you're talking about - to anticipate that Stefon Diggs is not going to be a Minnesota Viking. When you have some of the offensive talent that we have, with him and Thielen together, with Rudy and Irv Smith, with Dalvin Cook and Mattison, we have a pretty good support cast around our quarterback."

www.espn.com

Vikings not moving on from WR Diggs, says GM

Minnesota Vikings GM Rick Spielman did his best Tuesday to dispel any notion of the team potentially parting ways with star WR Stefon Diggs.
www.espn.com www.espn.com

Skol Vikes!!
 

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