2020 Minnesota Vikings Off-Season Thread

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MplsGopher said:
The position is important. It’s not a position where you need to pay big to get good to great production.

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For the record, Coleman, Mostert and Breida will make a combined $6.8 million this season in salary and bonuses.
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The 49'ers highest paid RB is Jerrick McKinnon. He played 0 snaps for them the last 2 years. The Shanahan's have been making stars out of random RB's for 20 years. Terrell Davis blew his knee out? Oh well. Here's Olandis Gary/Mike Anderson etc.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
And they’re doing it with a good OL and castaways at RB. Invest in the OL, not at RB. That’s my point.
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I realize that a good offensive line is a key to the running game. My point is that, with a Delvin Cook like player at the RB position, it would make them that more dangerous. Because using your logic....a good passing game is unnecessary as well.
 

Oregon Gopher said:
For a one year rental you’re not getting a 2nd round pick
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It only takes one team. If someone feels their a good RB away you might. If you can get a 2nd or 3rd rounder, trade him. If not, ride him hard next year and then let someone else pay him.
 

What if Dalvin refuses to play without an extension? It’s a legitimate thing he could do.
 

Next season, the NFC North title will be the Detroit Lions title to lose. ??
 


MplsGopher said:
What if Dalvin refuses to play without an extension? It’s a legitimate thing he could do.
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How did that work for Melvin Gordon and Leveon Bell? Yes, it's possible that it could turn out like Elliott in Dallas and he could get paid, but at least recently there's precedent of that not working for the player.

On the flip side, you have guys like David Johnson (according the press is being shopped) and Gurley who have been paid and had an almost immediate nose dive.

I just don't trust Cook to stay healthy enough to pay him big money. If he wants to sign a reasonable deal to stay here, great. If not, use him next year and let him walk.
 


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MplsGopher said:
Write up in Strib today summarizing and grading the season performance of our OL:
www.startribune.com/grading-the-vikings-offensive-line-improved-but-talent-gap-clear-vs-top-nfc-foes/567193482/

- Best was O’Neil at 3.5 out of 5.
- As I think we agree, Elflein has to go.
- Not as sure on Kline and Reiff, but they make the most money by far.
- There are the two rookie “redshirts” from last year’s draft class. Could they fill in next season for Elf and Reiff??
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If they weren’t good enough to usurp either of those 2 from their positions I’m not optimistic about their potential. Need to expend some draft choices and cap space on higher class replacements.
 



Oregon Gopher said:
If they weren’t good enough to usurp either of those 2 from their positions I’m not optimistic about their potential. Need to expend some draft choices and cap space on higher class replacements.
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That redshirt joke is an absolute joke. This aint college you don't save elgibility.
 

Does anyone else get the feeling that the Vikings are just going to quietly announce Adam Zimmer as Defensive Coordinator and Klint Kubiak as Offensive Coordinator? The DC doesn't really matter as Zim calls the plays and the OC might answer to Gary Kubiak, but it's still hard to feel good about those moves.

I have a lot of strong opinions on what the Vikings should do going forward, but the main thing I don't want to see is a Kirk Cousins extension. In general, I'd like to see Spielman embrace a short term rebuild as I don't think there's a legitimate path to a Super Bowl with the aging core and a real chance at missing the playoffs even if they bring most everyone back. Can you get a 2nd for Harrison Smith who will be 31 in a couple of weeks? That's the type of move that a forward thinking organization makes when they feel their contention window closing.

I
 

EG#9 said:
Does anyone else get the feeling that the Vikings are just going to quietly announce Adam Zimmer as Defensive Coordinator and Klint Kubiak as Offensive Coordinator? The DC doesn't really matter as Zim calls the plays and the OC might answer to Gary Kubiak, but it's still hard to feel good about those moves.

I have a lot of strong opinions on what the Vikings should do going forward, but the main thing I don't want to see is a Kirk Cousins extension. In general, I'd like to see Spielman embrace a short term rebuild as I don't think there's a legitimate path to a Super Bowl with the aging core and a real chance at missing the playoffs even if they bring most everyone back. Can you get a 2nd for Harrison Smith who will be 31 in a couple of weeks? That's the type of move that a forward thinking organization makes when they feel their contention window closing.

I
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I agree with your entire post. Yes, I think the nepotism will be strong in those hires.

And the vikings need to do a semi start over. They have a lot of talent in their prime, so you still want to contend, but you need to get rid of guys when its time. Cook and Smith need to get traded. Cook is hurt all of the time, and you just cant afford to give good money to a RB. Smith doesnt appear to be the elite player he once was, so if they could get something decent for him, Id do it.

I'd also try trading Thielen. Hes getting up there in age, and I'd gladly take a second or third.

They also need to cut Griff (who ran out of gas in second half of season), Reiff (who makes really good money for an average at best tackle) Linval (vikings do not stuff the run anymore, i think linval is done) Rhodes (no explanation needed).

Therefore you could use some of the money to resign Anthony Harris, Mac Alexander, and maybe another OLineman. Additionally, if you could get draft capital with some trades, fill some more holes that way. Maybe even draft a QB.

But Cousins needs to go after this season
 

On DC/OC: there are two key parts here, game planning and play calling. Zimmer called the plays on defense and I believe Stephanski called the plays on offense. But the game planning is a group effort.

Adam Zimmer would help his father game plan the defense each week, with the elder continuing to call the plays. That has always been Zim's thing anyways. And it's very common in the NFL for the head coach to be a play caller of some kind. In the NFL, strategy is king. Finding those mismatches in each play, at every position, is king.

Kubiaks will game plan the offense together, and then I'm not sure who would call the plays. If Gary didn't do it this season, I'm not sure he would want that pressure next season? But maybe it would be closer to a group effort. Maybe Gary says "OK we're on our 39, left hash, 1st and 10 ... I want a wide run play to the right ... Klint, whaddya got for me??"
 



JimmyJamesMD said:
Cook and Smith need to get traded. Cook is hurt all of the time, and you just cant afford to give good money to a RB. Smith doesnt appear to be the elite player he once was, so if they could get something decent for him, Id do it.

I'd also try trading Thielen. Hes getting up there in age, and I'd gladly take a second or third.

They also need to cut Griff (who ran out of gas in second half of season), Reiff (who makes really good money for an average at best tackle) Linval (vikings do not stuff the run anymore, i think linval is done) Rhodes (no explanation needed).
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Why is anyone going to give us anything of value, for these players, when you just assessed them as adding little to no value to our team?

If you're looking to trade them just to get them off the books in terms of cap space, and don't care if we get anything back .... can't you just cut them? You lose the guaranteed money, but they're no longer against the cap, right?

JimmyJamesMD said:
But Cousins needs to go after this season
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Not saying this is wrong, but it would be a huge vote of no confidence in Cousins and essentially a signal that they think indeed he's out after 2020, to not give him an extension.

Has any NFL team even made it to the Conf Championship (let alone won) with a QB that was playing in the final year of his contract, say in the last 10 years?

Honest question, I have no idea. Maybe it happens a lot more often than I think.
 

MplsGopher said:
Why is anyone going to give us anything of value, for these players, when you just assessed them as adding little to no value to our team?

If you're looking to trade them just to get them off the books in terms of cap space, and don't care if we get anything back .... can't you just cut them? You lose the guaranteed money, but they're no longer against the cap, right?


Not saying this is wrong, but it would be a huge vote of no confidence in Cousins and essentially a signal that they think indeed he's out after 2020, to not give him an extension.

Has any NFL team even made it to the Conf Championship (let alone won) with a QB that was playing in the final year of his contract, say in the last 10 years?

Honest question, I have no idea. Maybe it happens a lot more often than I think.
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Smith and Cook have value to the team next season. If you keep Smith, you may have to say bye bye to Harris. But if you trade him, you can sign Harris and get draft capital. Cook is cheap, if you cant get a good trade for him, you just let him play out his contract.

Cousins isnt cutting it. So if he sucks because he doesnt have another contract, even more reason to get rid of him. And if he plays well and you want to keep him, you can always franchise him, which limits him, but decreases the long term risk
 

You think teams would offer good draft picks for Smith? Cook?

Your argument about Cousins is just fine, logically. I'm talking more practical than that, though. Letting a QB play out the last year is defacto a vote of no confidence. How many teams have done well in a season like that? Like I said, could be more than I think.
 

MplsGopher said:
You think teams would offer good draft picks for Smith? Cook?

Your argument about Cousins is just fine, logically. I'm talking more practical than that, though. Letting a QB play out the last year is defacto a vote of no confidence. How many teams have done well in a season like that? Like I said, could be more than I think.
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Its not a bad question, but if I were GM, i just couldnt sacrifice the future because my current QB cant cut it playing without an extension.

If a team thinks a team is one player away, i do think they make trades. PIcks in the top 3 rounds are good ones in the NFL, so they dont have to be FRPs
 


PFF said we should have taken a off tackle in last years draft instead of Bradbury, who they had rated as a second rounder. Elflein is the worst starting guard in the league, if we could find money it would be nice to get a solid starter in free agency. I'd move O'neil to the left side, good athlete better pass blocker than rock blocker. Reif to the right while we groom a high draft pick to take over.
 

MplsGopher said:
You think teams would offer good draft picks for Smith? Cook?

Your argument about Cousins is just fine, logically. I'm talking more practical than that, though. Letting a QB play out the last year is defacto a vote of no confidence. How many teams have done well in a season like that? Like I said, could be more than I think.
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Drew Brees just played the last season of his contract. So did Brady. So did Cousins in Washington multiple times. I'm fine letting him play out the last year. If he does well, we franchise him. If he doesn't we let him walk.
 

march madness said:
PFF said we should have taken a off tackle in last years draft instead of Bradbury, who they had rated as a second rounder. Elflein is the worst starting guard in the league, if we could find money it would be nice to get a solid starter in free agency. I'd move O'neil to the left side, good athlete better pass blocker than rock blocker. Reif to the right while we groom a high draft pick to take over.
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Reif needs to be released. His cap # for next year is like $13 million and he's not good. Spend that $ on an upgrade.
 

howeda7 said:
Drew Brees just played the last season of his contract. So did Brady. So did Cousins in Washington multiple times. I'm fine letting him play out the last year. If he does well, we franchise him. If he doesn't we let him walk.
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Well ..... my question was, how many teams have done that and made the conf championship. None of the above did.

Im not looking for a fight on this point. I’m just saying
 

MplsGopher said:
Well ..... my question was, how many teams have done that and made the conf championship. None of the above did.

Im not looking for a fight on this point. I’m just saying
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I don't think Brees played worse against the Vikings because of his contract.
 

Brees and Brady are old, have had long successful careers at their teams. More than happy to ride off into the sunset.

I’ll be honest, I’m not sure what my point is. Would Cousins play worse or hold out without an extension? Probably not. Makes logical sense not to extend him. Was just saying
 

JimmyJamesMD said:
I agree with your entire post. Yes, I think the nepotism will be strong in those hires.

And the vikings need to do a semi start over. They have a lot of talent in their prime, so you still want to contend, but you need to get rid of guys when its time. Cook and Smith need to get traded. Cook is hurt all of the time, and you just cant afford to give good money to a RB. Smith doesnt appear to be the elite player he once was, so if they could get something decent for him, Id do it.

I'd also try trading Thielen. Hes getting up there in age, and I'd gladly take a second or third.

They also need to cut Griff (who ran out of gas in second half of season), Reiff (who makes really good money for an average at best tackle) Linval (vikings do not stuff the run anymore, i think linval is done) Rhodes (no explanation needed).

Therefore you could use some of the money to resign Anthony Harris, Mac Alexander, and maybe another OLineman. Additionally, if you could get draft capital with some trades, fill some more holes that way. Maybe even draft a QB.

But Cousins needs to go after this season
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Semi start over? For a team that just played in the divisional round of the playoffs? Negative.
 

stocker08 said:
Semi start over? For a team that just played in the divisional round of the playoffs? Negative.
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Team is getting old. If you're not proactive its going to be a total rebuild in a couple of years
 

JimmyJamesMD said:
Team is getting old. If you're not proactive its going to be a total rebuild in a couple of years
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But you are pretty much saying that we should scrap some key pieces and be fine with not being a playoff contender for a couple of years.

Again....if we were 8-8 and missed the playoffs....you'd have a good point. My argument is that the Vikings might be a few key pieces away from a Super Bowl run. You don't have a fire sale on a playoff team that took out the #3 seed.
 

stocker08 said:
But you are pretty much saying that we should scrap some key pieces and be fine with not being a playoff contender for a couple of years.

Again....if we were 8-8 and missed the playoffs....you'd have a good point. My argument is that the Vikings might be a few key pieces away from a Super Bowl run. You don't have a fire sale on a playoff team that took out the #3 seed.
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Also, I don't think we did any worse at SF than the supposed #2 seed did. We just had to play them a weekend earlier.

And let's be brutally honest and clear, the response from media and fans wouldn't have been any different if we had lost to them like we did, but in the conf championship. Vikings fans won't be happy with anything less than a Super Bowl appearance. Conf championship is: "been there, done that plenty, can't make it over the hump, don't talk to me until you do".
 

JimmyJamesMD said:
Team is getting old. If you're not proactive its going to be a total rebuild in a couple of years
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I would say the defense is getting old. Not the entire team.

Which is why they need to move on from Griffin, Joseph, Rhodes and Smith and invest the draft on D. Fix the O-line in FA.
 


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