2020 Minnesota Timberwolves Off-Season Thread

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coolhandgopher said:
I, like Ogee, tend towards the optimistic side of things and I can see the makings of a solid plan ahead with the franchise.

Let's start with Towns and Russell. Both extremely talented, with Towns being a really unique talent. To this point, both have not played to their talent levels-Towns has been poor on defense and questions about the work ethic are present; Russell's been a knucklehead who's bounced around to four teams in five seasons. They're 25 and 24 years old respectively; Towns lost his mother to COVID-19 this past year. It seems to me that this is a pivotal year for both to determine what kind of players they will be in this league moving forward. I've read things here and there about both that alludes to both maturing. If so, those are two wonderfully talented building blocks for the TWolves moving forward.

Edwards-I was skeptical all through the process leading up to the draft and although Jon K's article in The Athletic needs to be taken with guarded optimism, I am optimistic. No matter the criticism he's faced, the mental strength and discipline he's needed since to rise to the status of top pick of the NBA draft, having lost his mother and grandmother at age 14 should not be underestimated. He possesses the athletic talent and if he can develop the skills and defensive acumen, well, that's a pretty potent three top players on this squad.

Rubio-loved this trade. He still has a lot in the tank, is happy to be coming back to MN, Towns is happy to have him back and between his defense and distribution of the ball, he is a great add. It also seems he's become a nice veteran mentor to the likes of Donovan Mitchell, Devin Booker and others. This team can benefit from solid veterans.

The rest of the squad-who knows? Is Beasley going to still be a part of this team? How are they going to supplement the bigs around Towns? What will they do in free agency?

I did like what they chose to do at the end of the draft with Bolsanaro and McDaniels. High ceilings, seemingly, that could be afterthoughts in a couple years-but I'd rather the team take a swing at pick #28 with the likes of McDaniels. Take a look historically at the tail end of round 1's-it's a crapshoot.

Ultimately, it will come down to Towns and Russell, and hopefully, in a year or two, Edwards. We're talking about two #1 overall picks and a #2 overall. No matter the limitations/needs to improve of each, there's a lot of talent there, all quite young. If this franchise wasn't so star-crossed, I'd feel better :).
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I've never been sold on Russell. He's here to please KAT. I remember when he came into Williams and blew out the gophers in the first half, scoring 25 or 28 points, doing anything he wanted regardless of who the put on him. Later that year I watched him in an NCAA quarterfinals game and he played the most I-don't-give-a-shit defense I'd ever seen a college player play in an important game. Matta should have pulled him. His NBA career has been pretty much the same. He makes some pretty plays, but he doesn't take care of the ball and he doesn't play defense. He's a top 18-20 PG, which is hardly a foundational piece of a winning team. His contract will probably be as tough to move as Wiggins'.

Towns needs another strong front court presence to cover up his defensive deficiencies. That's why I wanted Wiseman.

It's going to be another interesting year, especially with a new buyer on the horizon.
 

jamiche said:
I've never been sold on Russell. He's here to please KAT. I remember when he came into Williams and blew out the gophers in the first half, scoring 25 or 28 points, doing anything he wanted regardless of who the put on him. Later that year I watched him in an NCAA quarterfinals game and he played the most I-don't-give-a-shit defense I'd ever seen a college player play in an important game. Matta should have pulled him. His NBA career has been pretty much the same. He makes some pretty plays, but he doesn't take care of the ball and he doesn't play defense. He's a top 18-20 PG, which is hardly a foundational piece of a winning team. His contract will probably be as tough to move as Wiggins'.

Towns needs another strong front court presence to cover up his defensive deficiencies. That's why I wanted Wiseman.

It's going to be another interesting year, especially with a new buyer on the horizon.
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Towns needs to grow a pair and be the player the twolves are paying him to be. Too often he is content to just float out but the arch and then complain about calls. I also don’t think Ryan Saunders is the answer as the coach.

I agree with getting Wiseman or hell even some like Oturu in the late first round so KAT can play they have big body that doesn’t have to score. Plus Oturu will at least run the court which puts pressure on the defense.
 

Edwards is basically only a freshman in college. He'll grow to be a much better person on and off the court. I look for some good things from him.
 



From the Parkinglot said:
Towns needs to grow a pair and be the player the twolves are paying him to be. Too often he is content to just float out but the arch and then complain about calls. I also don’t think Ryan Saunders is the answer as the coach.

I agree with getting Wiseman or hell even some like Oturu in the late first round so KAT can play they have big body that doesn’t have to score. Plus Oturu will at least run the court which puts pressure on the defense.
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KAT is the best 3 pt shooting big man in NBA history. We want him out there. I agree with you about the whining. He gets pounded and the refs basically laugh at him because he acts like a baby all of the time. The non calls probably cost the team 5-6 points/game. Agree that Ryan isn't the right coach for this team--he doesn't command respect from the players or officials. As much as I liked Oturu on the gophers, he wasn't the answer. However, the point holds. They need another legit big man for rebounding and defense.
 

jamiche said:
KAT is the best 3 pt shooting big man in NBA history. We want him out there. I agree with you about the whining. He gets pounded and the refs basically laugh at him because he acts like a baby all of the time. The non calls probably cost the team 5-6 points/game. Agree that Ryan isn't the right coach for this team--he doesn't command respect from the players or officials. As much as I liked Oturu on the gophers, he wasn't the answer. However, the point holds. They need another legit big man for rebounding and defense.
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Who or what type of coach do you want instead of Ryan? I'm not saying I'm all on board with him, but I do like that he believes in analytics and he creates good relationships with the players. I do like that we've hired some good assistants to also help. There will certainly be some learning on the job however considering how young he is.

I think finding a big who can rebound and play defense in FA will be easy. NY just released Gibson and Portis for example and with teams unsure about future caps, players will come on the cheap. Finding some more shooting however is something I'm more worried about.
 

manderson1984 said:
Who or what type of coach do you want instead of Ryan? I'm not saying I'm all on board with him, but I do like that he believes in analytics and he creates good relationships with the players. I do like that we've hired some good assistants to also help. There will certainly be some learning on the job however considering how young he is.

I think finding a big who can rebound and play defense in FA will be easy. NY just released Gibson and Portis for example and with teams unsure about future caps, players will come on the cheap. Finding some more shooting however is something I'm more worried about.
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Thibs...he’s a hard nosed coach that demanded respect from his players.
 




jamiche said:
Thibs! Yes! Sign him to another $40M deal.
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Coaching was not his problem it was him being the GM too. You can’t tell me Miami is as a more talented team with Butler than the twolves were and Miami made it to the finals. I would love for Thibs to be the coach only and then you can have the touchy feely gm to preach about culture. You know how you get culture, YOU WIN GAMES. You can’t create a culture when you are losing, especially with KAT being the main complainer and he’s supposed to be the leader of the team.
 

manderson1984 said:
Who or what type of coach do you want instead of Ryan? I'm not saying I'm all on board with him, but I do like that he believes in analytics and he creates good relationships with the players. I do like that we've hired some good assistants to also help. There will certainly be some learning on the job however considering how young he is.

I think finding a big who can rebound and play defense in FA will be easy. NY just released Gibson and Portis for example and with teams unsure about future caps, players will come on the cheap. Finding some more shooting however is something I'm more worried about.
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I think Ryan is strong on analytics and I think he has close personal relationships with the players--which makes him the perfect assistant coach.

I have no inside information. My guess is that Ryan is perceived by the players in the league as being a young white coach who got preferential treatment by virtue of his last name. That doesn't mean they don't like him, but it might mean that he doesn't have their full respect, because he hasn't earned it. He never played at a top level and he only worked on Flip's staffs.

I do think that Ryan ans Gerson have assembled a top tier coaching and support staff. The fact that there has been no off season movement is a good sign.

I'm not saying Ryan is a bad coach or that he doesn't understand the game. He obviously does understand the NBA game. However, if you look at it objectively, he has done things to earn players' fondness, but not necessarily their respect. Fondness and respect are different.

BTW, the same goes for the refs. Ryan doesn't get calls.

I hear through the grapevine that both Pop and Doc Rivers are dying to coach the wolves. :)
 

From the Parkinglot said:
Coaching was not his problem it was him being the GM too. You can’t tell me Miami is as a more talented team with Butler than the twolves were and Miami made it to the finals. I would love for Thibs to be the coach only and then you can have the touchy feely gm to preach about culture. You know how you get culture, YOU WIN GAMES. You can’t create a culture when you are losing, especially with KAT being the main complainer and he’s supposed to be the leader of the team.
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I disagreed with a lot of Thibs coaching. Rubio in the corner. Wiggins pg at the end of qtr's., etc.. He was a disaster overall.
 

From the Parkinglot said:
You can’t tell me Miami is as a more talented team with Butler than the twolves were and Miami made it to the finals.
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I'm not sure what this has to do with anything, or what your point is. Miami's record this year was 44-29 (.603) and Minnesota's record in Butler's one full year (2017-18) was 47-35 (.573). They were/are very similar teams. Miami was a 5 seed in an inferior conference and got hot at the right time, while Minnesota was an 8 seed in a superior conference and got smoked by Houston in the first round. This year's Miami team would've also been smoked by 2017-18 Houston in the first round. So, again - what's your point?
 



tikited said:
I disagreed with a lot of Thibs coaching. Rubio in the corner. Wiggins pg at the end of qtr's., etc.. He was a disaster overall.
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I also recall reading a Zach Lowe deep dive analysis on how Thibs' defensive princlples that were established with the Celtics and led to his ascension as Bulls coach were no longer relevant in modern NBA (pre-Splash Bros), but he had not adjusted to the spread the court philosophy. I can't see how the Knicks will not continue to be a disaster with him at the helm.
 

dpodoll68 said:
I'm not sure what this has to do with anything, or what your point is. Miami's record this year was 44-29 (.603) and Minnesota's record in Butler's one full year (2017-18) was 47-35 (.573). They were/are very similar teams. Miami was a 5 seed in an inferior conference and got hot at the right time, while Minnesota was an 8 seed in a superior conference and got smoked by Houston in the first round. This year's Miami team would've also been smoked by 2017-18 Houston in the first round. So, again - what's your point?
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The twolves ranked 4-30 in the offensive remaking in 2017-2018. They ranked 24-30 in defensive rankings. Defense was a large issue but is that because of coaching or a lack of effort or a combination of both. Also Butler was hurt for a while in 2017-2018 and only played 59 of the 82 games with the twolves. The heat beat the bucks handily in the playoffs this year while the twolves were completely outclassed against Houston.
 

From the Parkinglot said:
Coaching was not his problem it was him being the GM too. You can’t tell me Miami is as a more talented team with Butler than the twolves were and Miami made it to the finals. I would love for Thibs to be the coach only and then you can have the touchy feely gm to preach about culture. You know how you get culture, YOU WIN GAMES. You can’t create a culture when you are losing, especially with KAT being the main complainer and he’s supposed to be the leader of the team.
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What team in recent memory has been super successful with a coach like Thibs? He was awful as a coach and GM. His defensive concepts were outdated and offensively his love for ball dominant/iso lead guards was not the right fit when you have KAT, Wiggins, and Rubio. I can't believe he got another job.
 

manderson1984 said:
What team in recent memory has been super successful with a coach like Thibs? He was awful as a coach and GM. His defensive concepts were outdated and offensively his love for ball dominant/iso lead guards was not the right fit when you have KAT, Wiggins, and Rubio. I can't believe he got another job.
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The timberwolves have had 1 winning season since 2005-2006 and that was under Thibs. The guy was fired after 2.5 years when the team was 19-21. I’m not saying he’s some gunnies but he is certainly not the biggest problem.
When Taylor sat down with Wiggins and was assured that Wiggins would try hard for the max contact the franchise was set back a decade. Plus Thibs had a winning record every year with Chicago. When he was fired they went 50-32 and lost in the conference semifinals. The timberwolves are aspiring for a winning record let alone making it to the conference semifinals.

What do you think Russell is he’s a iso guard who needs his shots.

If Saunders last name was not Saunders he wouldn’t even be apart of the organization let alone be the head coach
 

jamiche said:
I think Ryan is strong on analytics and I think he has close personal relationships with the players--which makes him the perfect assistant coach.

I have no inside information. My guess is that Ryan is perceived by the players in the league as being a young white coach who got preferential treatment by virtue of his last name. That doesn't mean they don't like him, but it might mean that he doesn't have their full respect, because he hasn't earned it. He never played at a top level and he only worked on Flip's staffs.

I do think that Ryan ans Gerson have assembled a top tier coaching and support staff. The fact that there has been no off season movement is a good sign.

I'm not saying Ryan is a bad coach or that he doesn't understand the game. He obviously does understand the NBA game. However, if you look at it objectively, he has done things to earn players' fondness, but not necessarily their respect. Fondness and respect are different.

BTW, the same goes for the refs. Ryan doesn't get calls.

I hear through the grapevine that both Pop and Doc Rivers are dying to coach the wolves. :)
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Yes he is young and inexperienced for sure. He also may not carry much clout but that has to be earned by doing and that is what he is doing. I'm excited to see him with this roster and see what he does. I guess I felt he had respect not just fondness of the locker room. The fact is we are young and need to learn how to win. I was very skeptical of the Saunders hire and still am, but I like what I've seen as far as growth. We will just have to see.
 

From the Parkinglot said:
The twolves ranked 4-30 in the offensive remaking in 2017-2018. They ranked 24-30 in defensive rankings. Defense was a large issue but is that because of coaching or a lack of effort or a combination of both. Also Butler was hurt for a while in 2017-2018 and only played 59 of the 82 games with the twolves. The heat beat the bucks handily in the playoffs this year while the twolves were completely outclassed against Houston.
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I doubt it would have mattered...but that injury to Butler was bad in a number of ways. Lost home court advantage, had to play the Rockets, gave Jimmy time to see how weak Wiggins was and how much of a whiner Kat was, etc.. Maybe if they kept going as the 3rd seed team, Jimmy might have felt differently?
 

From the Parkinglot said:
The timberwolves have had 1 winning season since 2005-2006 and that was under Thibs. The guy was fired after 2.5 years when the team was 19-21. I’m not saying he’s some gunnies but he is certainly not the biggest problem.
When Taylor sat down with Wiggins and was assured that Wiggins would try hard for the max contact the franchise was set back a decade. Plus Thibs had a winning record every year with Chicago. When he was fired they went 50-32 and lost in the conference semifinals. The timberwolves are aspiring for a winning record let alone making it to the conference semifinals.

What do you think Russell is he’s a iso guard who needs his shots.

If Saunders last name was not Saunders he wouldn’t even be apart of the organization let alone be the head coach
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Lol Thibs expedited a plan and roster the Flip had set up instead of focusing on team development. He's terrible, stubborn, and borderline ignorant considering how he handled the Jimmy situation. Is he more at fault than Glen Taylor? Of course not, Glen hired him. Thibs success is an awful Eastern conference is skewed data. He also wrecked any longevity with the bulls with his ridiculous minute allotments. We will and can let his NYK experience decide since we seem to be an impass on how good/bad he is.

As far as ball dominant guards. It's part of the NBA to an extent. DLo is better than Rose or Teague imo so he's ok. If he overtakes KAT i will have an issue with Saunders as well. We also just traded for Rubio which makes me thing DLo will be playing some wing.

Ryan's name helped him no doubt. He was also one of the few non Thibs guys. I will say I wanted to hire someone else, but I'll trust Rosas for now.
 

manderson1984 said:
Lol Thibs expedited a plan and roster the Flip had set up instead of focusing on team development. He's terrible, stubborn, and borderline ignorant considering how he handled the Jimmy situation. Is he more at fault than Glen Taylor? Of course not, Glen hired him. Thibs success is an awful Eastern conference is skewed data. He also wrecked any longevity with the bulls with his ridiculous minute allotments. We will and can let his NYK experience decide since we seem to be an impass on how good/bad he is.

As far as ball dominant guards. It's part of the NBA to an extent. DLo is better than Rose or Teague imo so he's ok. If he overtakes KAT i will have an issue with Saunders as well. We also just traded for Rubio which makes me thing DLo will be playing some wing.

Ryan's name helped him no doubt. He was also one of the few non Thibs guys. I will say I wanted to hire someone else, but I'll trust Rosas for now.
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The knicks are the only dumpster fire bigger than than the twolves. I would make that trade for Butler every day and twice on Sunday. They didn’t give up that much and the team got a second superstar that they needed. No offense to LaVine, but he’s more of a defensive liability than Wiggins is.
 

tikited said:
I doubt it would have mattered...but that injury to Butler was bad in a number of ways. Lost home court advantage, had to play the Rockets, gave Jimmy time to see how weak Wiggins was and how much of a whiner Kat was, etc.. Maybe if they kept going as the 3rd seed team, Jimmy might have felt differently?
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Agreed jimmy saw that the team didn’t want to work hard enough and that was it. Jimmy’s routine can run really fast on a team that’s not winning. I really do with Butler and Thibs as a coach they would be in a better position than where they are now. Especially with the talent that has gone from the west to the east the last 2 years. Plus if they never would have signed Wiggins to the super max, that may have been a mistake.
 

From the Parkinglot said:
Agreed jimmy saw that the team didn’t want to work hard enough and that was it. Jimmy’s routine can run really fast on a team that’s not winning. I really do with Butler and Thibs as a coach they would be in a better position than where they are now. Especially with the talent that has gone from the west to the east the last 2 years. Plus if they never would have signed Wiggins to the super max, that may have been a mistake.
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This franchise has made huge decisions based on the following: A smile. A secret deal made on a deathbed. Lasagne dinner. A look into one players eyes. I'm probably forgetting some.

Think about that for a second.
 

tikited said:
This franchise has made huge decisions based on the following: A smile. A secret deal made on a deathbed. Lasagne dinner. A look into one players eyes. I'm probably forgetting some.

Think about that for a second.
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I'm not saying that the Wiggin's deal wasn't a huge miss and mistake for the franchise, but it's not the deathbed. The deathbed is Taylors poor decision making/hiring. The fact that he felt he needed to offer that extension before hiring a gm/executive.

Unpopular opinion, but I think Wiggins isn't as bad of a dumpster fire if he's still playing with Rubio and in Flips system (wasn't a fan of it, but it suited Wiggins better).
 

From the Parkinglot said:
Agreed jimmy saw that the team didn’t want to work hard enough and that was it. Jimmy’s routine can run really fast on a team that’s not winning. I really do with Butler and Thibs as a coach they would be in a better position than where they are now. Especially with the talent that has gone from the west to the east the last 2 years. Plus if they never would have signed Wiggins to the super max, that may have been a mistake.
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This is what drives me nuts about Jimmy. He sees that in his team and instead of being the alpha and leader, he chose to quit. If KAT and Wiggins needed some readjusting, why weren't him and Thibs working together to teach and mold him. Jimmy also struggled in Philly and needed to be in a stable environment like Miami. I think he had a wonderful year and the Heat's playoff run was wonderful, but the "Jimmy was right" thought was junk imo. Pat Riley and Spoelstra's culture reeled him in which is a wonderful complement to both of them.
 

manderson1984 said:
I'm not saying that the Wiggin's deal wasn't a huge miss and mistake for the franchise, but it's not the deathbed. The deathbed is Taylors poor decision making/hiring. The fact that he felt he needed to offer that extension before hiring a gm/executive.

Unpopular opinion, but I think Wiggins isn't as bad of a dumpster fire if he's still playing with Rubio and in Flips system (wasn't a fan of it, but it suited Wiggins better).
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The deathbed part was for the Joe Smith secret deal. The story was that Taylor was on his deathbed so-to-speak when the agreement was made.
 

manderson1984 said:
This is what drives me nuts about Jimmy. He sees that in his team and instead of being the alpha and leader, he chose to quit. If KAT and Wiggins needed some readjusting, why weren't him and Thibs working together to teach and mold him. Jimmy also struggled in Philly and needed to be in a stable environment like Miami. I think he had a wonderful year and the Heat's playoff run was wonderful, but the "Jimmy was right" thought was junk imo. Pat Riley and Spoelstra's culture reeled him in which is a wonderful complement to both of them.
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Yep, he was a total tool in his actions.
 

manderson1984 said:
This is what drives me nuts about Jimmy. He sees that in his team and instead of being the alpha and leader, he chose to quit. If KAT and Wiggins needed some readjusting, why weren't him and Thibs working together to teach and mold him. Jimmy also struggled in Philly and needed to be in a stable environment like Miami. I think he had a wonderful year and the Heat's playoff run was wonderful, but the "Jimmy was right" thought was junk imo. Pat Riley and Spoelstra's culture reeled him in which is a wonderful complement to both of them.
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And it could all fall apart next year when the times get tough. The east will be tough with Brooklyn being much better.
 

From the Parkinglot said:
And it could all fall apart next year when the times get tough. The east will be tough with Brooklyn being much better.
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Yeah Brooklyn will be interesting and a wild card. If I'm looking at the East standings next year, I still see a top 2 of Milwaukee and Boston. 3-6 being Brooklyn, Miami, and Toronto, and Philly in some order. I was a big Atkinson guy and thought he did a good job and think Kyrie and Durant are always so unhappy and I don't know how well that will fly with Lavert, Allen, and Dinwiddie. Nash has his work cut out for him.
 

manderson1984 said:
Yeah Brooklyn will be interesting and a wild card. If I'm looking at the East standings next year, I still see a top 2 of Milwaukee and Boston. 3-6 being Brooklyn, Miami, and Toronto, and Philly in some order. I was a big Atkinson guy and thought he did a good job and think Kyrie and Durant are always so unhappy and I don't know how well that will fly with Lavert, Allen, and Dinwiddie. Nash has his work cut out for him.
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Are there still rumblings of Harden to the Nets? I agree, these Nets seem to be shaping up as a new Clippers/old Clippers situation which occurred this year and Irving is about as mercurial as they come it seems, while Durant’s not far behind. I hope Harden joins them, it’ll be a wild sh*tshow to enjoy from afar.
 

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