2019-2020 Minnesota Twins Off-Season Thread

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forever a gopher said:
You are a much more understanding and patient person than I. Terry Ryan always claimed he didn’t have a “cap” and that he had the freedom to sign a free agent if it made sense. Nothing ever happened. Now Falvine are saying the same thing. Which of course they are, as who is going to publicly call out their employer saying they’re cheap bastards? Until proven otherwise, I think you have to look at the common denominator, which is ownership, not the GM as to why these deals aren’t happening.

It’s not that I expect them to have signed Cole and Rendon. Nor for them to make a splash all the time. But mid market teams generally have smaller windows to win within than a large market team, because they can generally only afford minor injuries or FA busts that a larger market team can buy their way out of. The window is now, and won’t stay open forever.
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All fair points. I think the farm system and development was so bad during Terry Ryan's second stint as GM that spending money in free agency probably wasn't going to do much other than lifting them from a 65 win team to a 70 win team. Lack of development within was by far the biggest issue during most of Mauer's big contract.

People will say this is an excuse but MN definitely is at a disadvantage when it comes to big name free agents, especially pitchers. Although the weather is overblown (Boston gets more snow in April than Minneapolis does) it's absolutely a factor. Location, high income taxes, weather, etc can all be a factor besides the size of the contract.

I still think trades will always be the best way for the Twins to acquire top talent. They didn't make a big move last year (first time this FO was in a position to do so) but many teams that really needed pitching didn't make moves. The minors is stacked with talent, we'll see what happens.
 

GophersInIowa said:
I'll give them the benefit of the doubt because it's a completely new front office. What happened prior to the 2017 season is irrelevant to them as they had no control then. But what they've done in other areas (analytics, building up the farm system, 101 wins, etc) has convinced me they're different than the old front office. I'm not going to give them the benefit of the doubt forever but I'm going to give them more than a few years. We'll see I guess.
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I'm out of patience. They said they would strike when the "window" was open. Then they did nothing to bolster the rotation in July, refusing to trade any of their top 10 prospects. Then they said they would target "impact" pitching and they supposedly have $30-40 million to spend for 2020. They've done nothing but resign two of their own and get a back-up catcher. There's not much impact pitching left. They're either going to have to overpay for one of the two FA's left and overpay in a trade. And they've shown zero indication that they're willing to do either.
 

howeda7 said:
refusing to trade any of their top 10 prospects.
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Is that really true? Reports I heard said teams were asking for multiple top 10 prospects. Not willing to give away the farm is a lot different than refusing to trade any top 10 prospects.
 

GophersInIowa said:
Is that really true? Reports I heard said teams were asking for multiple top 10 prospects. Not willing to give away the farm is a lot different than refusing to trade any top 10 prospects.
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I don't know exactly what was asked for. I only know that they had a pitching staff that needed help, and the highest prospect they traded to get that help was like #20.

The price for Syndergaard was probably unreasonable. But they could have gotten Stroman without trading multiple top 10 guys. Perhaps they could have gotten Mike Minor. Of course the other teams always ask for "too much" and the FA's ask for "too much" or they don't want to play here. I don't put much stock in their explanations/excuses.
 

howeda7 said:
I don't know exactly what was asked for. I only know that they had a pitching staff that needed help, and the highest prospect they traded to get that help was like #20.

The price for Syndergaard was probably unreasonable. But they could have gotten Stroman without trading multiple top 10 guys. Perhaps they could have gotten Mike Minor. Of course the other teams always ask for "too much" and the FA's ask for "too much" or they don't want to play here. I don't put much stock in their explanations/excuses.
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Reports were that Toronto never circled back with the other teams that had originally inquired about Stroman. They must have valued the prospects they received from the Mets higher than most because many felt they could have gotten more in return than they did.

It was a weird trade deadline. Many of the teams that normally do a lot did very little. Other teams needed starting pitching but didn't get anyone. There were so many teams in the NL that were still in the Wild Card race at the deadline so I think that there weren't a lot of teams selling.

Even if you call last trade deadline a big swing and miss for the new FO, it's only the first real opportunity for them to make a big trade. I'd like to see the next year or two play out first. Just my opinion.
 


GophersInIowa said:
People will say this is an excuse but MN definitely is at a disadvantage when it comes to big name free agents, especially pitchers. Although the weather is overblown (Boston gets more snow in April than Minneapolis does) it's absolutely a factor. Location, high income taxes, weather, etc can all be a factor besides the size of the contract.
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I think a lot of this is self-inflicted. Do Boston and NY have a hard time signing free agents? While not quite as cold, it does get relatively cold and snowy there. Do FA’s flock to the friendly, warm, confines of Tampa Bay or Miami? No, because those organizations are generally dumpster fires.

A top FA knows the track record here, and knows the GM/ownership isn’t going to do whatever it takes to win, so if things go south during your tenure here on a long term deal, you could be stuck in pergatory while ownership refuses to spend money. I absolutely believe they would have to overspend a bit to get a top FA, but it’s not because of the weather like they make you believe- it’s because of their own past ineptitude and unwillingness to surround you with other talent.
 

forever a gopher said:
I think a lot of this is self-inflicted. Do Boston and NY have a hard time signing free agents? While not quite as cold, it does get relatively cold and snowy there. Do FA’s flock to the friendly, warm, confines of Tampa Bay or Miami? No, because those organizations are generally dumpster fires.

A top FA knows the track record here, and knows the GM/ownership isn’t going to do whatever it takes to win, so if things go south during your tenure here on a long term deal, you could be stuck in pergatory while ownership refuses to spend money. I absolutely believe they would have to overspend a bit to get a top FA, but it’s not because of the weather like they make you believe- it’s because of their own past ineptitude and unwillingness to surround you with other talent.
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Funny how the team that plays in the summer is the one using weather as an excuse for not spending $ on free agents. If any team would be affected by it, it would be the Wolves. Those players have to live here during the entire winter season.
 

You'd both be making good points if I said weather was the biggest factor. That's not what I said. But I can tell you that some players absolutely hate the cold weather. It's a fact.

My point is it's not just about money in many cases. Real life isn't like a video game where you just offer the best contract and you get the player. Location for some matters. Being in a big market matters for some. Weather plays a factor for some. The league (NL or AL) matters for some. And for some it's just about the money.
 




It probably would have taken 5/$125 million to get MadBaum. That's steep. But what is the alternative? what if they'd offered 5/$100 to him or 5/$125 to Wheeler on day 1 instead of slow playing it?

There are exactly two decent starters left, Kuechel and Ryu. Both represented by Boras. To get either of them, the Twins are going to have to overpay just as they would have for MadBaum. Either they pony up or they follow-up 101 wins by cutting $20 million off the payroll and rocking a rotation with 3 rookies.
 

howeda7 said:
It probably would have taken 5/$125 million to get MadBaum. That's steep. But what is the alternative? what if they'd offered 5/$100 to him or 5/$125 to Wheeler on day 1 instead of slow playing it?

There are exactly two decent starters left, Kuechel and Ryu. Both represented by Boras. To get either of them, the Twins are going to have to overpay just as they would have for MadBaum. Either they pony up or they follow-up 101 wins by cutting $20 million off the payroll and rocking a rotation with 3 rookies.
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Sadly the second option is looking like the most likely unless they make a trade. The trade they make would likely be a worse deal for us as well as we're starting to wind down on timing.
 

howeda7 said:
It probably would have taken 5/$125 million to get MadBaum. That's steep. But what is the alternative? what if they'd offered 5/$100 to him or 5/$125 to Wheeler on day 1 instead of slow playing it?

There are exactly two decent starters left, Kuechel and Ryu. Both represented by Boras. To get either of them, the Twins are going to have to overpay just as they would have for MadBaum. Either they pony up or they follow-up 101 wins by cutting $20 million off the payroll and rocking a rotation with 3 rookies.
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I'd almost be willing to overlook the obvious miss on starting pitching if they went and got Donaldson and Betances, but I won't hold my breath on that either.
 

Ken Rosenthal in The Athletic says don't count out the Twins in the Josh Donaldson derby just yet. So you're saying there's a chance!!!

Donaldson sweepstakes update

Also says they're still in the mix for Ryu. Either (or both?) of those would sure brighten the mood of this offseason. I'm not as depressed as most here about the moves they've made so far, or lack thereof, but some more action would be nice!

Go Twins!!
 



The Twins are the king of kicking the tires and being in the mix!
 

per Sid:

Buxton healing well

Twins General Manager Thad Levine said one of the best bits of news so far this offseason is that after shoulder surgery in September, center fielder Byron Buxton is on track to be 100% healthy by the start of spring training.

“Buxton is on plan and on target,” Levine said. “The reason he had surgery and missed the last portion of last year was for the express purpose of being full go when we got to spring training and he is tracking to be just that.

“He is working tirelessly. We hooked him up with a personal therapist and trainer, close to his home in Baxley, Georgia, and he has been working diligently. We have been checking in with him periodically and we’ll get another chance to do that with him in person here at TwinsFest coming up, but everything is pointing to the fact that Byron will be full go with no restrictions ideally for the early part of spring training, and that is fabulous news.”

The simple fact is this: When Buxton played last season the Twins went 62-25, a number that would put them in line for 115 wins.

“It’s hard to know what to make of these types of statistics but just the statistics play out that when he is on the field, our team has won a higher percentage of games,” Levine said. “We’re looking forward to having a full Byron Buxton back for 2020.”

www.startribune.com

Vikings, Everson Griffen face contract/salary cap dilemma

The standout defensive end could void his current contract and become an unrestricted free agent.
www.startribune.com www.startribune.com

Win Twins!!
 

howeda7 said:
It probably would have taken 5/$125 million to get MadBaum. That's steep. But what is the alternative? what if they'd offered 5/$100 to him or 5/$125 to Wheeler on day 1 instead of slow playing it?

There are exactly two decent starters left, Kuechel and Ryu. Both represented by Boras. To get either of them, the Twins are going to have to overpay just as they would have for MadBaum. Either they pony up or they follow-up 101 wins by cutting $20 million off the payroll and rocking a rotation with 3 rookies.
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We don't know if that would have done anything. But we do know both of the players wanted to go to a specific location and were willing to take a lot less money to do so.
 

GophersInIowa said:
We don't know if that would have done anything. But we do know both of the players wanted to go to a specific location and were willing to take a lot less money to do so.
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Exactly. Why is it so hard to understand sometimes you can't get someone simply by offering more?
 


I've wanted Clippard for awhile now. Pretty good stats, surprised he cost so little
 

Now with CJ Cron officially off the table, what is the backup plan for 1B/3B if Donaldson opts to go elsewhere?
 




golfing18now said:
Yeah....that would make sense. I really liked Marwin in the role he played last year. I hope they go a different direction.
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I prefer him as a reserve. Invariably Buxton or someone else will get hurt and he can plug the hole.
 

Keuchel to the ChiSox. One team in the central has been aggressive and has vastly increased their chances at competing for the division. Another team has sat on their hands to the point where they’re going numb. But hey, they said they tried, so that’s probably good enough.
 
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It would seem the Twins are down to Donaldson and Ryu or bust. If they get neither, they’re really going to have to hit the trade market a lot harder than they’ve hit the free agent market.
 

forever a gopher said:
Keuchel to the ChiSox. One team in the central has been aggressive and has vastly increased their chances at competing for the division. Another team has sat on their hands to point where they’re going numb. But hey, they said they tried, so that’s probably good enough.
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Sure feels like terry Ryan is still gm
 

forever a gopher said:
Keuchel to the ChiSox. One team in the central has been aggressive and has vastly increased their chances at competing for the division. Another team has sat on their hands to point where they’re going numb. But hey, they said they tried, so that’s probably good enough.
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I've never been one to criticize the Twins for not spending, etc. etc. Many factors at play when trying to snag a free agent. But, it has been really depressing watching the aggression of the White Sox and the lack of movement from the Twins when the window couldn't be open any further.
 

Keuchel's contract is beyond reasonable. Falvine have backed themselves into a corner of Ryu or bust and we all know they won't outbid the Angels and Dodgers for him. A complete flop of an off-season.
 

howeda7 said:
Keuchel's contract is beyond reasonable. Falvine have backed themselves into a corner of Ryu or bust and we all know they won't outbid the Angels and Dodgers for him. A complete flop of an off-season.
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Need to make a trade now
 

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