2019-2020 Minnesota Twins Off-Season Thread

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And now Ryu to the Blue Jays for 4 years $80 million. There are now zero impact starters left. Way to go Falvine. May as well trade some of this offense for prospects and build toward the next "window."
 

If they were going to puss out on the open market and have to trade to get anybody anyway, they should have just traded last season and tried to make a run.
 

We are going to read the usual "Twins were in there until the end" tripe. It only took $20M/year to get Ryu and Toronto isn't considered a preferred destination. Now they are going to have to give up Rosario and either Lewis or Kiriloff to get a slightly past his prime, expensive pitcher just to get part of the salary covered by the other team. Even if they sign Donaldson, there's no excuse for this lost opportunity.
 

Nothing changes. And there's really nothing the fans can do to change it. They make millions off of TV/streaming so fans staying away aren't going to make a dent.
But, hey, the good news is that once Jim moves on, there's more Pohlads waiting in the wings to pinch those pennies.
 

But we will spend more $$ on players if we get a new stadium...…...
 


The penalty for selling in the stadium legislation is expired. Feel free to cash in Pohlads. Take Falvey with you.
 

I listen to the Gleeman and the Geek podcasts frequently because they are knowledgeable, analytical and they don't repeat the same point six times to fill air time. However, since Aaron joined The Athletic and is directly covering the team and is dependent on staying in good standing with his "sources," he is becoming a bobo. He wouldn't acknowledge that the Twins have to and, therefore, should go above and beyond the market to sign premium free agents when the window is open, because the Twin Cities is not a preferred destination. Cole and Strasburg weren't coming. If the Twins were willing to go $25M and an extra year above the next highest offer for Wheeler, Bumgarner or Ryu, I'll bet that one of them would have said yes. There's no salary cap and the Pohlads have the resources. There's no reason not to do it when the other assets are in place. This is inexcusable.
 

jamiche said:
I listen to the Gleeman and the Geek podcasts frequently because they are knowledgeable, analytical and they don't repeat the same point six times to fill air time. However, since Aaron joined The Athletic and is directly covering the team and is dependent on staying in good standing with his "sources," he is becoming a bobo. He wouldn't acknowledge that the Twins have to and, therefore, should go above and beyond the market to sign premium free agents when the window is open, because the Twin Cities is not a preferred destination. Cole and Strasburg weren't coming. If the Twins were willing to go $25M and an extra year above the next highest offer for Wheeler, Bumgarner or Ryu, I'll bet that one of them would have said yes. There's no salary cap and the Pohlads have the resources. There's no reason not to do it when the other assets are in place. This is inexcusable.
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The argument that this isn’t a “top free agent spot” and therefore nobody will come here is BS. They spread that narrative to cover their ass. There is no way Toronto is a better free agent spot than MN. Toronto has high taxes, and with the Rays, NY, and Boston in the division, it’s almost impossible for them to compete.Yet, they are able to land a FA and the Twins aren’t.
 

forever a gopher said:
The argument that this isn’t a “top free agent spot” and therefore nobody will come here is BS. They spread that narrative to cover their ass. There is no way Toronto is a better free agent spot than MN. Toronto has high taxes, and with the Rays, NY, and Boston in the division, it’s almost impossible for them to compete.Yet, they are able to land a FA and the Twins aren’t.
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Exactly. The "he wouldn't come here" argument may have been true for Wheeler and MadBaum. It certainly wasn't for Kuechel or Ryu. They just wouldn't pay what it took. I think Falvey thinks he's the smartest geek in the room and massively misread the market both at the trade deadline and now. Instead he looks like he's in way over his head.
 



forever a gopher said:
The argument that this isn’t a “top free agent spot” and therefore nobody will come here is BS. They spread that narrative to cover their ass. There is no way Toronto is a better free agent spot than MN. Toronto has high taxes, and with the Rays, NY, and Boston in the division, it’s almost impossible for them to compete.Yet, they are able to land a FA and the Twins aren’t.
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Agreed.
 

As a fan, I want to see the team add talent. But, I don't know what happens in negotiations.

I have a suspicion that one of the big issues is not money, but length of contract. I have read comments from Falvey and Levine that make me think they are just philosophically opposed to long-term deals for pitchers. You might get 2 or 3 good years, and then you're on the hook for another 2 or 3 years of an older pitcher who's on the way down.

So, when push comes to shove, I suspect they would be willing to pay the $, but they don't want to go that extra year or 2 that it would take to close the deal.

So, if the Twins make a deal for a pitcher, I suspect it's more likely to be a younger starter who the Twins can sign and keep under control for a few years - say a 27- or 28-year old instead of a 32- or 33-year-old. What this does it up the ante on the farm system. They have to come up with one or two high-quality starters from the farm system - better than Dobnak or Smeltzer.

Bottom line - let's see what happens before the start of Spring Training. If they go to Florida and they have made no further moves for a starter, then the Twins deserve all the abuse they're going to take from fans.
 

howeda7 said:
Exactly. The "he wouldn't come here" argument may have been true for Wheeler and MadBaum. It certainly wasn't for Kuechel or Ryu. They just wouldn't pay what it took. I think Falvey thinks he's the smartest geek in the room and massively misread the market both at the trade deadline and now. Instead he looks like he's in way over his head.
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I'm still not a big fan of Kuechel. Another year of allowing more hits than innings pitched. WHIP over 1.3 again. However Ryu is a little perplexing although he is getting up there in age and has been hurt a lot.

I still want to see the offseason play out before I get too upset. The Twins have a bunch of prospects that will have to be added to the 40 man soon and there isn't enough room for everyone. So they'll have to trade some of them this offseason or next trade deadline. My hope is they just prefer to trade for someone younger than the guys available in free agency.
 

GophersInIowa said:
I'm still not a big fan of Kuechel. Another year of allowing more hits than innings pitched. WHIP over 1.3 again. However Ryu is a little perplexing although he is getting up there in age and has been hurt a lot.

I still want to see the offseason play out before I get too upset. The Twins have a bunch of prospects that will have to be added to the 40 man soon and there isn't enough room for everyone. So they'll have to trade some of them this offseason or next trade deadline. My hope is they just prefer to trade for someone younger than the guys available in free agency.
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Get the hell out of here with that rational, logical and patient thinking! There's no room for that here, you Twins FO apologist!
 



GophersInIowa said:
I'm still not a big fan of Kuechel. Another year of allowing more hits than innings pitched. WHIP over 1.3 again. However Ryu is a little perplexing although he is getting up there in age and has been hurt a lot.

I still want to see the offseason play out before I get too upset. The Twins have a bunch of prospects that will have to be added to the 40 man soon and there isn't enough room for everyone. So they'll have to trade some of them this offseason or next trade deadline. My hope is they just prefer to trade for someone younger than the guys available in free agency.
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I think we identified the gopherhole Pohlad Pocket Protector.
 


GophersInIowa said:
Apparently there's no middle ground between "the Pohlad's are the worst owners ever" and "I love the Pohlads".
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I was just making a joke.

I think your post was pretty logical.

I'm also just pissy the twins are failing at doing anything again. I shouldn't be surprised but unfortunately I am.
 

GophersInIowa said:
I'm still not a big fan of Kuechel. Another year of allowing more hits than innings pitched. WHIP over 1.3 again. However Ryu is a little perplexing although he is getting up there in age and has been hurt a lot.

I still want to see the offseason play out before I get too upset. The Twins have a bunch of prospects that will have to be added to the 40 man soon and there isn't enough room for everyone. So they'll have to trade some of them this offseason or next trade deadline. My hope is they just prefer to trade for someone younger than the guys available in free agency.
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Based on how tightly they clung to their prospects at the trade deadline, I have zero expectations of a major trade. I also think folks are over-estimating the # of pitchers that are available for trade. Sure, there's always a price, but it's not like the Tigers NEED to trade Boyd or the Marlins NEED to Alcantrara. Unless you blow them away, it's not happening. Eating a chunk of David Price's contract is probably the only move they can make that won't cost multiple top 10 prospects.
 

GophersInIowa said:
I'm still not a big fan of Kuechel. Another year of allowing more hits than innings pitched. WHIP over 1.3 again. However Ryu is a little perplexing although he is getting up there in age and has been hurt a lot.

I still want to see the offseason play out before I get too upset. The Twins have a bunch of prospects that will have to be added to the 40 man soon and there isn't enough room for everyone. So they'll have to trade some of them this offseason or next trade deadline. My hope is they just prefer to trade for someone younger than the guys available in free agency.
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If they're going to start a soft-tossing lefty, it might as well be Thorpe or Smeltzer. I want no part of Kuechel or Gio Gonzelez. I wanted Wheeler bad. I wanted Betances. I want Donaldson. Just do something already.
 

bottlebass said:
I was just making a joke.

I think your post was pretty logical.

I'm also just pissy the twins are failing at doing anything again. I shouldn't be surprised but unfortunately I am.
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Ah my bad. But that does seem to be how it is for a lot of people. You try to say anything other than "the Pohlads suck!" and you're labeled a Pohlad Pocket Protector.
 

GophersInIowa said:
Ah my bad. But that does seem to be how it is for a lot of people. You try to say anything other than "the Pohlads suck!" and you're labeled a Pohlad Pocket Protector.
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haha yah that's part of the bit though. It is getting harder and harder for me to defend them though.
 

howeda7 said:
Based on how tightly they clung to their prospects at the trade deadline, I have zero expectations of a major trade. I also think folks are over-estimating the # of pitchers that are available for trade. Sure, there's always a price, but it's not like the Tigers NEED to trade Boyd or the Marlins NEED to Alcantrara. Unless you blow them away, it's not happening. Eating a chunk of David Price's contract is probably the only move they can make that won't cost multiple top 10 prospects.
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Do we really know that for sure? Just because they didn't make a move doesn't mean they weren't willing to trade some away. But you don't spend $20K for a $10K car. Reports were teams were asking for an insane of amount in return. That's why so few teams that needed pitching actually acquired it.

And like I said, they'll have no choice soon otherwise they'll lose a few guys in the rule 5 draft because they don't have room on the 40 man roster.
 

GophersInIowa said:
Do we really know that for sure? Just because they didn't make a move doesn't mean they weren't willing to trade some away. But you don't spend $20K for a $10K car. Reports were teams were asking for an insane of amount in return. That's why so few teams that needed pitching actually acquired it.

And like I said, they'll have no choice soon otherwise they'll lose a few guys in the rule 5 draft because they don't have room on the 40 man roster.
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Teams like the yankees, dodgers, giants and red sox consistently do.
 

bottlebass said:
Teams like the yankees, dodgers, giants and red sox consistently do.
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Revenue in 2018 according to Forbes:
Yankees: $668M
LA: $549M
Red Sox: $516M
Giants: $462M
Twins: $269M

I think that all kinda makes a difference too though. They can afford to take a chance and it not work out. The Yankees paid Ellsbury over $21M the past two seasons to not even play.
 

GophersInIowa said:
Do we really know that for sure? Just because they didn't make a move doesn't mean they weren't willing to trade some away. But you don't spend $20K for a $10K car. Reports were teams were asking for an insane of amount in return. That's why so few teams that needed pitching actually acquired it.

And like I said, they'll have no choice soon otherwise they'll lose a few guys in the rule 5 draft because they don't have room on the 40 man roster.
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No, but if you're walking to work every day and that's the only available car, you might be $13K. I cannot buy the "we're willing to spend big $$ but no one wants to play in MN" or "we're willing to trade prospects but everyone else is being totally unreasonable!" excuses. Other teams made trades. Other teams signed FA's. We're not special.
 

GophersInIowa said:
Revenue in 2018 according to Forbes:
Yankees: $668M
LA: $549M
Red Sox: $516M
Giants: $462M
Twins: $269M

I think that all kinda makes a difference too though. They can afford to take a chance and it not work out. The Yankees paid Ellsbury over $21M the past two seasons to not even play.
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The Twins current payroll is ~$105 million. Two years ago it was $130 million. Supposedly they can spend between $130-150 this year. They could have signed almost any FA pitcher short of Cole and been fine. They are not the Rays or A's. And one bad contract is not going to sink the 2023 Twins either.

As it is, it looks like they're going to follow a record setting season that saw massive surges in attendance and TV ratings by slashing the the payroll. What a great look.
 

GophersInIowa said:
Revenue in 2018 according to Forbes:
Yankees: $668M
LA: $549M
Red Sox: $516M
Giants: $462M
Twins: $269M

I think that all kinda makes a difference too though. They can afford to take a chance and it not work out. The Yankees paid Ellsbury over $21M the past two seasons to not even play.
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The Twins consistently say they spend ~50% of revenue on payroll. $270 million allows a $135 million payroll. $30 million less then what it is at this moment. That's exactly why their inaction is inexcusable. No one is asking them to do anything crazy here. Short of signing Donaldson, or trading for Price, there's nothing else out there for them to spend anything close to $30 million on.
 

GophersInIowa said:
Revenue in 2018 according to Forbes:
Yankees: $668M
LA: $549M
Red Sox: $516M
Giants: $462M
Twins: $269M

I think that all kinda makes a difference too though. They can afford to take a chance and it not work out. The Yankees paid Ellsbury over $21M the past two seasons to not even play.
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Sure they have higher revenue but they also over pay all the time for players. The twins could do it every once in a while when the time is right (cough cough 100 win season cough cough). I'm not saying pretend to be the yankees, I just want them to do it every once in a while.
 

The Padres 2018 revenue was nearly identical to that of the Twins. They somehow opened up the checkbook.
 

My calendar says it's still December. I'll reserve judgment for just another several weeks. Not sure what it is about this current regime that would NOT deserve the benefit of the doubt at this point?
 

Ogee Oglethorpe said:
My calendar says it's still December. I'll reserve judgment for just another several weeks. Not sure what it is about this current regime that would NOT deserve the benefit of the doubt at this point?
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Oh, I think sitting on their hands at the deadline when everybody and their grandmother knew they needed another starter and then getting predictably blasted by the Yankees yet again leads to a fair line of questions.
 

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