All Things 2022 Minnesota Twins In-Season Thread

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Unbelievable. DFA Pagan tonight.

This is completely on Rocco. An utter embarrassment of a decision to bring Pagan in. Lead with Cotton and have Thornburg ready. Pagan should have never seen another inning this series unless it's a blowout like game 1.
 




The problem with this terrible bullpen is it can’t be fixed for at least another 4 weeks. No one is gonna make a trade now unless it’s a bad player or you are paying a premium. This bullpen has been a real issue already and it’s gonna continue to be an issue. This is squarely on the front office. To think Rocco has to go to a guy that’s been DFA’d at least 3 times to save a divisional game in the end of June because his one good reliever pitched the 8th and 9th.

Plus on the trade front I don’t see the twins giving up good prospects to go get a lights out closer when you need two bullpen arms. More likely it’ll be pieces like Sergio Romo and Sam Dyson like it was in 2019. So temper your expectations twins fans .
 
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So predictable. Why on earth would you put Pagan in there. So bad.
 

From the Parkinglot said:
The problem with this terrible bullpen is it can’t be fixed for at least another 4 weeks. No one is gonna make a trade now unless it’s a bad player or you are paying a premium. This bullpen has been a real issue already and it’s gonna continue to be an issue. This is squarely on the front office. To think Rocco has to go to a guy that’s been DFA’d at least 3 times to save a divisional game in the end of June because his one hood relieve pitched the 8th and 9th.

Plus on the trade front I don’t see the twins giving up too prospects to go get a lights out closer when you need two bullpen arms. More likely it’ll be pieces like Sergio Romo and Sam Dyson like it was in 2019. So temper your expectations twins fans .
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I have zero expectations. I can't imagine this team in the playoffs against the yankees or Astros. 0-21

Just trying to get to football.
 

And NYC I provide I won’t bring up the trade again as that would just be pouring salt into the wounds tonight. I’ll mention it tomorrow. 😁
 



Rocco is a moron. Pagan has gotten blasted three times by the Indians in the past eight days....so what does he do? Puts Pagan in to get blasted a fourth time.

Clueless.
 

stocker08 said:
Rocco is a moron. Pagan has gotten blasted three times by the Indians in the past eight days....so what does he do? Puts Pagan in to get blasted a fourth time.

Clueless.
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Yep, and I just posted.....we are big into analytics!

Nice analytics, Rocco!
 

GophersInIowa said:
So predictable. Why on earth would you put Pagan in there. So bad.
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stocker08 said:
Rocco is a moron. Pagan has gotten blasted three times by the Indians in the past eight days....so what does he do? Puts Pagan in to get blasted a fourth time.

Clueless.
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Exactly. If you want to rehab him then find a similar spot against the Os
Cleveland was loving him being there and of course, he has zero confidence against them at this point.
Horrible
 

Master of the obvious, but somethings need to be done about the bullpen. Not fair to the rest of the team.
Duran, Jax, Winder, trade, and Thielbar as top five. Other guys don't get in high leverage spots if at all possible.
I need to find a different hobby.
 





kg21 said:
Yep, and I just posted.....we are big into analytics!

Nice analytics, Rocco!
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Don't even need in depth analytics to see that Pagan gave up seven runs and only retired six batters in his three appearances against Cleveland in the previous week.

Sending someone else in the 10th was a no brainer.
 


golf said:
Now you've done it. Take cover.
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See post 2254. I conceded tonight was epic. Fail.

Regarding others hand wringing over Rocco, I put it more on the players considering who was already used or unavailable from yesterday's workload. They are paid to perform. Pagan & Cotton flopped.

In the post game Rocco indicated Pagan has really great stuff, "enough to get MLB hitters out". So can all of us fans rest easy based on that info?!?

Ummm...no.
 

Ope3 said:
See post 2254. I conceded tonight was epic. Fail.

Regarding others hand wringing over Rocco, I put it more on the players considering who was already used or unavailable from yesterday's workload. They are paid to perform. Pagan & Cotton flopped.

In the post game Rocco indicated Pagan has really great stuff, "enough to get MLB hitters out". So can all of us fans rest easy based on that info?!?

Ummm...no.
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Part of the workload is Rocco not having a defined role for everyone in the pen. He basically views each reliever as an 8th inning setup guy with the exception of Duran.

Yesterday is a prime example. You had a lead in the 8th and didn’t go to Duran then instead you went to Pagan. Who promptly gave up the lead and got the loss. Then tonight you bring Duran into a game you don’t have a lead to pitch 2 innings. You then have no choice in the pen and have to send Pagan back out there to try and get the save tonight again m, even though he pitched last night.

Like I keep saying they are always playing for the next game. I am sure Rocco was thinking yesterday the Pagan gets the 8th and Duran gets the 9th. Then I can do the same thin agains today. Of course the blows up and you lose yesterday. Then you feel you have to use Duran today cause otherwise he might now pitch in the series and you really need a win after yesterday. That blows up in your face cause you never get the lead when Duran is pitching and now you almost have to use Pagan again. His decisions are not helping an already fragile bullpen lately. And yes it is on the players to perform, but they also need to be put in the position to succeed.
 
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From the Parkinglot said:
Part of the workload is Rocco not having a defined role for everyone in the pen. He basically views each reliever as an 8th inning setup guy with the exception of Duran.
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Maybe that changes or is modified once Wes is out the door, but I suspect he's going to be using the same spreadsheets based on the analytics department guided by the Falvey-Levine regime.
 

Ope3 said:
Maybe that changes or is modified once Wes is out the door, but I suspect he's going to be using the same spreadsheets based on the analytics department guided by the Falvey-Levine regime.
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I think Rocco runs the pen and Wes runs the starters. Plus the other pitching guys helps out with the pen guys too.
 

golf said:
Master of the obvious, but somethings need to be done about the bullpen. Not fair to the rest of the team.
Duran, Jax, Winder, trade, and Thielbar as top five. Other guys don't get in high leverage spots if at all possible.
I need to find a different hobby.
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Clearly the bullpen has issues and moves need to be made. But Rocco just making better decisions probably still results in a comfortable lead in the central right now.

 


From the Parkinglot said:
Part of the workload is Rocco not having a defined role for everyone in the pen. He basically views each reliever as an 8th inning setup guy with the exception of Duran.


Yesterday is a prime example. You had a lead in the 8th and didn’t go to Duran then instead you went to Pagan. Who promptly gave up the lead and got the loss. Then tonight you bring Duran into a game you don’t have a lead to pitch 2 innings. You then have no choice in the pen and have to send Pagan back out there to try and get the save tonight again m, even though he pitched last night.

Like I keep saying they are always playing for the next game. I am sure Rocco was thinking yesterday the Pagan gets the 8th and Duran gets the 9th. Then I can do the same thin agains today. Of course the blows up and you lose yesterday. Then you feel you have to use Duran today cause otherwise he might now pitch in the series and you really need a win after yesterday. That blows up in your face cause you never get the lead when Duran is pitching and now you almost have to use Pagan again. His decisions are not helping an already fragile bullpen lately. And yes it is on the players to perform, but they also need to be put in the position to succeed.
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Well crafted and maybe your best in-season post ever(?)!
 

Ope3 said:
See post 2254. I conceded tonight was epic. Fail.

Regarding others hand wringing over Rocco, I put it more on the players considering who was already used or unavailable from yesterday's workload. They are paid to perform. Pagan & Cotton flopped.

In the post game Rocco indicated Pagan has really great stuff, "enough to get MLB hitters out". So can all of us fans rest easy based on that info?!?

Ummm...no.
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I agree Pagan does have stuff to get out MLB hitters - that’s not in question - it’s when can he reliably get them out.
He may not have the mental ability to do it in the high leverage situations (we can all see he’s trying and feels like shite when he fails), so it’s not on him.

Some guys are amazing O & D coordinators - I always remember Charlie Weiss as a prime example - legendary coordinator, but didn’t have it when he wore the big head set.

Managing people is a skill onto itself and a very hard one to be elite at - a spreadsheet won’t tell u when that guy is the right person fit those innings/spots - experience & intuition do.

I fear Rocco’s MassHoleness ( spelt correctly) is being exhibited here, where he’s smarter than others and won’t concede he made bad choices - it’s a special kind of arrogance, that is part of the Massachusetts landscape, A frat buddy in college (shocker I was in one - Go Beta) schooled me on being a MassHole as he was born and breed in Worcester.
 

Gopher_In_NYC said:
I agree Pagan does have stuff to get out MLB hitters - that’s not in question - it’s when can he reliably get them out.
He may not have the mental ability to do it in the high leverage situations (we can all see he’s trying and feels like shite when he fails), so it’s not on him.

Some guys are amazing O & D coordinators - I always remember Charlie Weiss as a prime example - legendary coordinator, but didn’t have it when he wore the big head set.

Managing people is a skill onto itself and a very hard one to be elite at - a spreadsheet won’t tell u when that guy is the right person fit those innings/spots - experience & intuition do.

I fear Rocco’s MassHoleness ( spelt correctly) is being exhibited here, where he’s smarter than others and won’t concede he made bad choices - it’s a special kind of arrogance, that is part of the Massachusetts landscape, A frat buddy in college (shocker I was in one - Go Beta) schooled me on being a MassHole as he was born and breed in Worcester.
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Yes Rocco and the front office have never made a mistake in their entire careers. They are some of the most pompous people in the world. I’m sure they love the 2 more years of “control” of Paddock. Of course 1 year of it will be rehabbing and then he will be on a pitch count the 2nd season. See what I did there.
 


What I don’t get with Rocco and the bullpen. On Monday Cotton pitched two innings I believe to just eat innings in a blowout win. Then two days later he’s being asked save a 2 run game with guys on 2nd and 3rd already. Not to mention he’s been DFA’d several times. If I were him I would be confused in my roll. You also have Thornburg in the pen who has not pitched since mopping up a game on Saturday. If you trust Cotton a free agen you signed and DFA’d then why is Thornburg on the roster. The spot needs to be someone who can help him close games.

Yes two things can be true, the front office failed to make any meaningful additions to the bullpen and Rocco is not handling the bullpen very well. It will make for a very interesting next 4 weeks though.
 

From the Parkinglot said:
Part of the workload is Rocco not having a defined role for everyone in the pen. He basically views each reliever as an 8th inning setup guy with the exception of Duran.

Yesterday is a prime example. You had a lead in the 8th and didn’t go to Duran then instead you went to Pagan. Who promptly gave up the lead and got the loss. Then tonight you bring Duran into a game you don’t have a lead to pitch 2 innings. You then have no choice in the pen and have to send Pagan back out there to try and get the save tonight again m, even though he pitched last night.

Like I keep saying they are always playing for the next game. I am sure Rocco was thinking yesterday the Pagan gets the 8th and Duran gets the 9th. Then I can do the same thin agains today. Of course the blows up and you lose yesterday. Then you feel you have to use Duran today cause otherwise he might now pitch in the series and you really need a win after yesterday. That blows up in your face cause you never get the lead when Duran is pitching and now you almost have to use Pagan again. His decisions are not helping an already fragile bullpen lately. And yes it is on the players to perform, but they also need to be put in the position to succeed.
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100%. Yes the bullpen sucks overall. But a competent manager still wins at least 2 more games the last two weeks and we have a 6 game lead. Let's give Toby a shot.
 

15 outs needed from the bullpen today. Duffey, Thornburg, and Moran only guys to not throw yesterday. I know Duran three 32 last night across 2 innings, but he might be needed again today.

Let’s get a few more runs for good measure.
 

Miranda may be a butcher in the field, but the guy can hit.

You can look at the Twins and envision a lineup that includes Royce Lewis, Miranda, Kirilloff and Larnach along with Buxton, Arraez and Polanco. maybe put Spencer Steer at 3rd?

I'd buy that for a dollar!
 

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