2022 Transfer Portal Discussion

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GopherWeatherGuy said:
So UNC became nearly a championship team when the other transfer everyone is excited to land left? That’s not a ringing endorsement.

And I’m still high on Garcia and he’s an easy take because of what he’s shown on the court. If Walton starts next year, we’re heading towards weakling Wednesday once again.
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Based upon who is avail right now in the portal; who is on your wish list?? If you posted it elsewhere I've missed it. But all you do is trash people for giving their opinion... Who cares if it's right.... Wrong... Absurd... They are allowed to have it.. so again... Post your portal players avail who you want to see in the maroon and gold next year... As I am very curious...
 

Tucker32 said:
This is ridiculous. You’re talking about a kid who started for UNC last year, and on a team that played in the national championship. He is not coming from a weakling wednesday program. Yes, they were an 8 seed because of how they started the year with a new coach, but they were a legitimate final four team. There are players not seeing time on really good teams who are really good players. Davis shortened his bench, just as many other coaches have done. That doesn’t make Walton a bad player. There are good players not seeing time at Villanova, for example, because Wright only plays 7 players typically.

You’re a big PJ guy. He has taken guys that weren’t seeing time at other programs and they did well for him last year. If Walton ends up in the portal almost any P6 team would take him.
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He played the same amount of minutes as RJ Davis last season, and produced similarly. He was well ahead of Puff Johnson who barely played last year, and most of this year. RJ Davis improved significantly, while Walton regressed, and Puff Johnson passed him as well. You think that's a good thing?

There's a big difference between guys who are buried on very talented teams and guys who were ahead on talented teams, then lost their spots. Walton is the latter. He's a spot up shooter off the bench on a good team. If Walton is a bench player for the gophers, I'm ok with that. If he's expected to start and play 30 minutes, that means our guards are a weak link once again.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
He played the same amount of minutes as RJ Davis last season, and produced similarly. He was well ahead of Puff Johnson who barely played last year, and most of this year. RJ Davis improved significantly, while Walton regressed, and Puff Johnson passed him as well. You think that's a good thing?

There's a big difference between guys who are buried on very talented teams and guys who were ahead on talented teams, then lost their spots. Walton is the latter. He's a spot up shooter off the bench on a good team. If Walton is a bench player for the gophers, I'm ok with that. If he's expected to start and play 30 minutes, that means our guards are a weak link once again.
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Nope. We will see, but my guess is wherever KW ends up he will do very well.
 


GopherWeatherGuy said:
So UNC became nearly a championship team when the other transfer everyone is excited to land left? That’s not a ringing endorsement.

And I’m still high on Garcia and he’s an easy take because of what he’s shown on the court. If Walton starts next year, we’re heading towards weakling Wednesday once again.
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Sometimes it's got nothing to do with ability and everything to do with fit and chemistry, UNC shortening their bench was a bold move and I think it cost them in the title game, but the roles were defined and the pieces fit together. Think Roy preferred more wing types, I think Hubert wanted multiple guys who could handle. Ben and co did really good job of getting guys like Loewe, and Stephens ready for Big ten play, took Willis game to another level and IMO Sutherlin out kicked his coverage as well, we just didn't enough guys last year. Walton Imo has a lot more to work with then those guys, I don't think he's an all League by any means, but I think he can help next year and can make himself into a good player in three years, he's definitely going to be on an HM, whether that's still UNC, here, Creighton etc
 


Fleckoff said:
Sometimes it's got nothing to do with ability and everything to do with fit and chemistry, UNC shortening their bench was a bold move and I think it cost them in the title game, but the roles were defined and the pieces fit together. Think Roy preferred more wing types, I think Hubert wanted multiple guys who could handle. Ben and co did really good job of getting guys like Loewe, and Stephens ready for Big ten play, took Willis game to another level and IMO Sutherlin out kicked his coverage as well, we just didn't enough guys last year. Walton Imo has a lot more to work with then those guys, I don't think he's an all League by any means, but I think he can help next year and can make himself into a good player in three years, he's definitely going to be on an HM, whether that's still UNC, here, Creighton etc
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Look at Willis. I mentioned it in an earlier post. Turns out players don't just progress in a straight line. After a promising freshman season at Vanderbilt, he regressed but then progressed.

Vandy - 44%
Vandy - 35%
Redshirt
Gophers - 38%
CoC - 46%
Gophers - 47%

Walton didn't just forget how to shoot. If he comes here let's hope Ben can utilize him well and put him in a position to succeed.
 

eker0016 said:
Look at Willis. I mentioned it in an earlier post. Turns out players don't just progress in a straight line. After a promising freshman season at Vanderbilt, he regressed but then progressed.

Vandy - 44%
Vandy - 35%
Redshirt
Gophers - 38%
CoC - 46%
Gophers - 47%

Walton didn't just forget how to shoot. If he comes here let's hope Ben can utilize him well and put him in a position to succeed.
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Players can and do regress as shooters. We saw it happen with Gabe here. I do agree that players don't always progress in a straight line, but the ones who turn out to be good players typically do.

Someone made a comment about not wanting a transfer earlier because he scored a ton of points on a really bad team. That was essentially Willis this year. His numbers looked good, but he played for the worst team in the B1G who lost the majority of their conference games by double digits. Someone had to score.
 

Fleckoff said:
Sometimes it's got nothing to do with ability and everything to do with fit and chemistry, UNC shortening their bench was a bold move and I think it cost them in the title game, but the roles were defined and the pieces fit together. Think Roy preferred more wing types, I think Hubert wanted multiple guys who could handle. Ben and co did really good job of getting guys like Loewe, and Stephens ready for Big ten play, took Willis game to another level and IMO Sutherlin out kicked his coverage as well, we just didn't enough guys last year. Walton Imo has a lot more to work with then those guys, I don't think he's an all League by any means, but I think he can help next year and can make himself into a good player in three years, he's definitely going to be on an HM, whether that's still UNC, here, Creighton etc
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Shortening the bench doesn't bother me as much as it does that he was jumped by other players he was once equal to or ahead of. He regressed as a player and is not a good defender, while others improved. That is typically a sign that his work ethic is not what it needs to be to compete at this level.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Shortening the bench doesn't bother me as much as it does that he was jumped by other players he was once equal to or ahead of. He regressed as a player and is not a good defender, while others improved. That is typically a sign that his work ethic is not what it needs to be to compete at this level.
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New coach, new game plan, got in his own head, he'll bounce back with new scenery. I'm not concerned at all
 



GopherWeatherGuy said:
Players can and do regress as shooters. We saw it happen with Gabe here. I do agree that players don't always progress in a straight line, but the ones who turn out to be good players typically do.

Someone made a comment about not wanting a transfer earlier because he scored a ton of points on a really bad team. That was essentially Willis this year. His numbers looked good, but he played for the worst team in the B1G who lost the majority of their conference games by double digits. Someone had to score.
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That post was about Kamari McGee, who shot 39% (28% 3PT) on a 5-25 low major Green Bay.

That is not remotely comparable to Payton Willis shooting 47% (43% 3PT) on our high major bad team last year. The Gophers weren't bad because of Payton Willis...they would have been much worse off without him.

I think you are grasping at straws with your recent posts.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Players can and do regress as shooters. We saw it happen with Gabe here. I do agree that players don't always progress in a straight line, but the ones who turn out to be good players typically do.

Someone made a comment about not wanting a transfer earlier because he scored a ton of points on a really bad team. That was essentially Willis this year. His numbers looked good, but he played for the worst team in the B1G who lost the majority of their conference games by double digits. Someone had to score.
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Agree but he was efficient doing it there is a big difference.
 


eker0016 said:
That post was about Kamari McGee, who shot 39% (28% 3PT) on a 5-25 low major Green Bay.

That is not remotely comparable to Payton Willis shooting 47% (43% 3PT) on our high major bad team last year. The Gophers weren't bad because of Payton Willis...they would have been much worse off without him.

I think you are grasping at straws with your recent posts.
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They weren't good with him, that's the point. Willis shot a high percentage, but how many of those came when the Gophers were already way down and the other team had backed off? On a good team, Willis's numbers likely drop quite a bit.

I don't think I'm grasping for straws saying a player who was benched after averaging 3 points per game and doesn't play defense, will help significantly improve the Gophers next season. If Walton comes here with two other guards who are better than him, I'm good with that.
 



GopherWeatherGuy said:
Someone made a comment about not wanting a transfer earlier because he scored a ton of points on a really bad team. That was essentially Willis this year. His numbers looked good, but he played for the worst team in the B1G who lost the majority of their conference games by double digits. Someone had to score.
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That was me. I didn't say I didn't want him. I said I had mixed feelings. I also said that player was high usage and low efficiency which didn't seem to fit Ben Johnson's prototype. Willis had much higher efficiency and a bit lower usage.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
They weren't good with him, that's the point. Willis shot a high percentage, but how many of those came when the Gophers were already way down and the other team had backed off? On a good team, Willis's numbers likely drop quite a bit.

I don't think I'm grasping for straws saying a player who was benched after averaging 3 points per game and doesn't play defense, will help significantly improve the Gophers next season. If Walton comes here with two other guards who are better than him, I'm good with that.
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For discussion, Willis got his points despite being 1 of 2 reliable options on the entire squad. Other teams could focus on him last year. Had we had a big man in the post, it is entirely possible that Willis would have been more efficient AND had similar ppg.
 


GopherWeatherGuy said:
They weren't good with him, that's the point. Willis shot a high percentage, but how many of those came when the Gophers were already way down and the other team had backed off? On a good team, Willis's numbers likely drop quite a bit.
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Okay I'll play your game and pick most of Willis' best games statistically where he exceeded his season shooting %

29 points on 11/18 shooting in a win against Princeton
24 points on 8/15 shooting in a win against Mississippi State
32 points on 11/17 shooting in a win against Rutgers
28 points on 8/17 shooting in a 5 point loss to Indiana
18 points on 6/11 shooting in a win against Penn State
17 points on 7/13 shooting in a win against Michigan
13 points on 5/9 shooting in a 1 point loss to Wisconsin (when he was still sick, a healthy Willis prob puts us over the top)
17 points on 7/15 shooting in a 6 point loss to Wisconsin
15 points on 6/13 shooting in a win over Pitt

Games that could be characterized the way you describe:
24 points on 9/14 shooting in a 15 point loss to Purdue
12 points on 5/9 shooting in an 11 point loss to Ohio State
21 points on 7/14 shooting in an 11 point loss to Maryland
16 points on 6/13 shooting in an 11 point loss to Iowa
GopherWeatherGuy said:
I don't think I'm grasping for straws saying a player who was benched after averaging 3 points per game and doesn't play defense, will help significantly improve the Gophers next season. If Walton comes here with two other guards who are better than him, I'm good with that.
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Why are you you focusing on his point average on a team that nearly won the national championship? I saw where you described them as an 8 seed earlier in the thread, not mentioning they were a team that had a 15 point lead in the championship. That is weird framing. He did not earn playing time this season for a variety of factors, but he has demonstrated he has the skill to compete and win a starting job at a high level as a freshman.

If he is available we absolutely need to roll the dice on Ben putting him in a situation where he can be successful.
 

leib0039 said:

In non Garcia news. I hadnt heard his name before, seems pretty ho hum on the surface. Some decent offers, another one of those best players on a pretty bad team guys.
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Stats are pretty "blah" actually but they were better his first two years than last year. He was rookie of the year for his conference as a freshman and was 2nd and 3rd team all conference the last two years. Decent three point shooter and very good free throw shooter. Doesn't seem like the kind of player who would be at the top of a wish list but might be all right.
 

eker0016 said:
If he is available we absolutely need to roll the dice on Ben putting him in a situation where he can be successful.
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Yes, I don't see how we couldn't want Walton if he wants to come here unless we had someone else who wanted to commit who had a clear edge. Some of the off guards we heard about early are either off the table (the kid from Princeton who committed to Clemson) or we're no longer hearing about (like Michael Jones). Based on his outstanding career shooting, I might prefer Jones over him but we don't even know if he's interested. We do know that he visited Stanford.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Players can and do regress as shooters. We saw it happen with Gabe here. I do agree that players don't always progress in a straight line, but the ones who turn out to be good players typically do.

Someone made a comment about not wanting a transfer earlier because he scored a ton of points on a really bad team. That was essentially Willis this year. His numbers looked good, but he played for the worst team in the B1G who lost the majority of their conference games by double digits. Someone had to score.
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Peyton hit a pretty high percentage for a guy who was only of two who could score with any consistency. Not exactly the bad team gunner stereotype.
 

cjbfbp said:
Yes, I don't see how we couldn't want Walton if he wants to come here unless we had someone else who wanted to commit who had a clear edge. Some of the off guards we heard about early are either off the table (the kid from Princeton who committed to Clemson) or we're no longer hearing about (like Michael Jones). Based on his outstanding career shooting, I might prefer Jones over him but we don't even know if he's interested. We do know that he visited Stanford.
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From what I hear of Clemson, Princeton to there is a major slide on the academic side.
 



cjbfbp said:
Stats are pretty "blah" actually but they were better his first two years than last year. He was rookie of the year for his conference as a freshman and was 2nd and 3rd team all conference the last two years. Decent three point shooter and very good free throw shooter. Doesn't seem like the kind of player who would be at the top of a wish list but might be all right.
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Stats look solid to me. But regardless of that, we don't need every player we get from the portal to be a star if they can fill a need on the team.

If we get Walton and Garcia we are probably looking at a starting 5 of Walton, ?, Battle, Fox, Garcia. With those 4 you just need a few more guards who can dribble, play strong D, and hit some 3s. Don't need to find super stars, need to find role players in the vein of Loewe, Sutherlin and Stephens from last year. Front court would be pretty stacked already with Ihnen, Payne, and Thompson on the bench. Guy like McIntosh would seem like a solid candidate for that kind of role.

www.sports-reference.com

Hunter McIntosh College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

Hunter McIntosh - Stats, Game Logs, Splits, and much more
www.sports-reference.com www.sports-reference.com
 

Holy Man said:
From what I hear of Clemson, Princeton to there is a major slide on the academic side.
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Well, maybe he graduated and will be a graduate student there. That would put him academically at a bit higher level of peers.
 

eker0016 said:
Okay I'll play your game and pick most of Willis' best games statistically where he exceeded his season shooting %

29 points on 11/18 shooting in a win against Princeton
24 points on 8/15 shooting in a win against Mississippi State
32 points on 11/17 shooting in a win against Rutgers
28 points on 8/17 shooting in a 5 point loss to Indiana
18 points on 6/11 shooting in a win against Penn State
17 points on 7/13 shooting in a win against Michigan
13 points on 5/9 shooting in a 1 point loss to Wisconsin (when he was still sick, a healthy Willis prob puts us over the top)
17 points on 7/15 shooting in a 6 point loss to Wisconsin
15 points on 6/13 shooting in a win over Pitt

Games that could be characterized the way you describe:
24 points on 9/14 shooting in a 15 point loss to Purdue
12 points on 5/9 shooting in an 11 point loss to Ohio State
21 points on 7/14 shooting in an 11 point loss to Maryland
16 points on 6/13 shooting in an 11 point loss to Iowa

Why are you you focusing on his point average on a team that nearly won the national championship? I saw where you described them as an 8 seed earlier in the thread, not mentioning they were a team that had a 15 point lead in the championship. That is weird framing. He did not earn playing time this season for a variety of factors, but he has demonstrated he has the skill to compete and win a starting job at a high level as a freshman.

If he is available we absolutely need to roll the dice on Ben putting him in a situation where he can be successful.
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Good analysis.

And I'm focused on what he did this season because that's what matters the most. UNC was a pretty average team until they got hot at the end of the season, without playing Walton.

The only real difference between last years UNC team and this one was Manek, who did not affect Walton's playing time. He was competing against the same guards for PT this season as last. Those guards got better, Walton regressed. What happened last year doesn't matter anymore. UNC became a better team this season because players not named Walton became better players.

Once again if Walton wasn't from Minnesota originally, very few on here would be excited about taking a player who averaged 3 points and didn't play any meaningful minutes when the games mattered the most.
 

MNVCGUY said:
Stats look solid to me. But regardless of that, we don't need every player we get from the portal to be a star if they can fill a need on the team.

If we get Walton and Garcia we are probably looking at a starting 5 of Walton, ?, Battle, Fox, Garcia. With those 4 you just need a few more guards who can dribble, play strong D, and hit some 3s. Don't need to find super stars, need to find role players in the vein of Loewe, Sutherlin and Stephens from last year. Front court would be pretty stacked already with Ihnen, Payne, and Thompson on the bench. Guy like McIntosh would seem like a solid candidate for that kind of role.

www.sports-reference.com

Hunter McIntosh College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

Hunter McIntosh - Stats, Game Logs, Splits, and much more
www.sports-reference.com www.sports-reference.com
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Agreed but I don't particularly like this guy as a point. Maybe a backup to Walton if Walton comes here. In any event, if Garcia is coming here, that should end any search for any other big man as we would now have 6 (if you count Ola Joseph). That was my primary concern. There are lots of ones and twos out there who can play at an acceptable level.
 

Zeppelin Gopher said:
It's weird how steadfast you're being with this Walton take.

It's possible you end being correct about him, but it's far from the certainty you're making it out to be.
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I don't think it's a certainty, I just call things how I see them. If he comes back and plays great and we win games, I'll eat crow and still be happy.

I just think the constant Minnesota homerism in always wanting to bring back players (or coaches) who have accomplished nothing to a program that never wins is weird. I want competitors and winners.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
I don't think it's a certainty, I just call things how I see them. If he comes back and plays great and we win games, I'll eat crow and still be happy.

I just think the constant Minnesota homerism in always wanting to bring back players (or coaches) who have accomplished nothing to a program that never wins is weird. I want competitors and winners.
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Kind of like Quinn Carroll on the football side? Why should anyone be excited about bringing him back. He did nothing at Notre Dame. The defensive lineman who had lost playing time at Clemson and Notre Dame who PJ brought in last year? They weren't just buried, they had actually lost spots at their schools. Yet, they contributed and had really good seasons last year.

Kerwin will be a good player wherever he ends up. If the coaches bring him in I trust that it's because they see him contributing. They haven't jumped on every MN kid they possibly could have.
 

Tucker32 said:
Kind of like Quinn Carroll on the football side? Why should anyone be excited about bringing him back. He did nothing at Notre Dame. The defensive lineman who had lost playing time at Clemson and Notre Dame who PJ brought in last year? They weren't just buried, they had actually lost spots at their schools. Yet, they contributed and had really good seasons last year.

Kerwin will be a good player wherever he ends up. If the coaches bring him in I trust that it's because they see him contributing. They haven't jumped on every MN kid they possibly could have.
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I'm not all that excited about Quinn Carrol. At least not for this season. It's also likely that he will be a backup this season. The other guys you mentioned also played a lot more and accomplished a lot more at those schools prior to leaving. They lost time due to those schools continuing to recruit high end 4* and 5* players. These players are also brought in to compete to be rotation and depth players.

Walton has accomplished less didn't lose time to new recruits. He lost time to the same players who were on the team last year.

I've said several times now that I'm ok bringing in Walton as long as he's completing with players like Carrington and Henley for backup/rotation minutes. I think the people who think Walton is going to come in and start and expect a better Gopher team because of it, are vastly overrating him.
 

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