Why did Wisconsin get Las Vegas over us???

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stocker08 said:
No team with two extra losses jumped a tier.
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Says who? What were the tiers?

Evidence?

You'd have posted it if you had it.



Like I said, I'm fine with your guessing, but that's all it is. No better or worse than my guessing.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Read the article I mentioned. it spells all of this out in great detail. I posted the entire article in a different bowl game thread.

and the 2-win rule is a fact.
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This is an equally nonsensical rant to when this same poster argued that the Gophers/Badgers game wouldn't determine the winner and representative of the Big Ten West.

Absolute lunacy.
 

MplsGopher said:
Says who? What were the tiers?

Evidence?

You'd have posted it if you had it.



Like I said, I'm fine with your guessing, but that's all it is. No better or worse than my guessing.
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It's all there for the non-raving lunatics to see.
 


Another thing I posted in the other thread:

if you really believe that nothing more than number of wins and the "two wins rule" are the end all be all, that means you believe the Citrus Bowl would have been allowed to select a 9-3 unraked Gophers over 10-3 #15 ranked Iowa.


Yeah, I don't believe that either. There's more to the story.
 


Iceland12 said:
www.thedailygopher.com

Please stop thinking bowl selection will ever be fair.

Why do people still get upset about bowl selection ignoring standings or head to head wins?
www.thedailygopher.com www.thedailygopher.com
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This is a great article. Acknowledges that we got the short end of the stick this year, but points out that the very system we are complaining about now is the same system that has, in recent years, got us to some bowls that were better than we deserved, based on our record.

Also enforces the super-obvious-point: that beyond the most special bowls, there are no bowl entitlements. Among equal tier teams, bowls have every right to weigh economic prospects (e.g., Purdue to the Music City Bowl). These are independent bowls which, subject to some discretion they have bargained away to the B1G, can do whatever they feel like.

And it finishes with the super-super obvious point: you aren’t complaining from solid ground when you lose to BG and IL, and finish unranked. That isn’t the performance that earns you a mythical entitlement.

We already had a great bowl-type game this year … against Wisconsin. Having another bowl game in Phoenix against a good WV team is icing on the cake for me. If folks want to top their cake with sour grapes instead of icing, it’s their right. But it is an odd choice.
 
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Yes, I believe if MN was 9-3 they would not have allowed PSU to jump us. 100%.
But, that doesn't mean they wouldn't have then selected WI or Purdue instead at 8-4 for Outback.

It doesn't mean that we simply go to Nashville instead with only PSU falling behind us.
 


Gophergrandpa said:
This is a great article. Acknowledges that we got the short end of the stick this year, but points out that the very system we are complaining about now is the same system that has, in recent years, got us to some bowls that were better than we deserved, based on our record.

Also enforces the super-obvious-point: that beyond the most special bowls, there are no bowl entitlements. Among equal tier teams, bowls have every right to weigh economic prospects (e.g., Purdue to the Music City Bowl). These are independent bowls which, subject to some discretion they have bargained away to the B1G, can do whatever they feel like.

And it finishes with the super-super obvious point: you aren’t complaining from solid ground when you lose to BG and IL, and finish unranked. That isn’t the performance that earns you a mythical entitlement.

Move on.
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This is a stupid article.

Let's recap it's points:

We don't get the Outback because we were there recently, and PSU is a blue blood. Conferene record doesn't matter. Better overall record doesn't matter. Attendence doesn't matter. I guess someone's idea of who is, and who isn't a "blue blood" DOES matter though.

We can't get the Music City Bowl, for no reason whatsoever. However, the fact Purdue was there recently all of a sudden doesn't matter. Attendence, however, now DOES matter.

We can't go to Vegas because Wisconsin hasn't ever been to the Vegas Bowl. Remind me when the Gophers were last in the Vegas Bowl... Also, attendance now matters again, but just by pure speculation. "Wisconsin travels well." That didn't matter for the Outback Bowl, but now it does.

We cant go to New York because Maryland played WVU. "Head to head doesn't matter" unless it's in NON CONFERENCE play. Then because the Big12 sent WVU to to Phoenix, the B1G can't send Maryland there.

Quick question: had MN lost to Purdue and Wisconsin, but ended up with the same record, does anyone--ANYONE--think this clown would be saying head to head doesn't matter?

We got ******. Spin all you want, we got ******.
 
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USAF said:
This is a stupid article.

Let's recap it's points:

We don't get the Outback because we were there recently, and PSU is a blue blood. Conferene record doesn't matter. Better overall record doesn't matter. Attendence doesn't matter. I guess someone's idea of who is, and who isn't a "blue blood" DOES matter though.

We can't get the Music City Bowl, for no reason whatsoever. However, the fact Purdue was there recently all of a sudden doesn't matter. Attendence, however, now DOES matter.

We can't go to Vegas because Wisconsin hasn't ever been to the Vegas Bowl. Remind me when the Gophers were last in the Vegas Bowl... Also, attendance now matters again, but just by pure speculation. "Wisconsin travels well." That didn't matter for the Outback Bowl, but now it does.

We cant go to New York because Maryland played WVU. "Head to head doesn't matter" unless it's in NON CONFERENCE play. Then because the Big12 sent WVU to to Phoenix, the B1G can't send Maryland there.

We got ******. Spin all you want, we got ******.
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Everything you say is true and part of the process for when teams are all within one game of each other. They don't care about conference head-to-head and conference records at this point. It's not part of the process. The article points out that MN got the Citrus and Outback bowls in the same manner over other teams. The bowls are a way to celebrate and watch your team play another game. Let's win 9 or more games next year and see where we end up.
 

Gophergrandpa said:
This is a great article. Acknowledges that we got the short end of the stick this year, but points out that the very system we are complaining about now is the same system that has, in recent years, got us to some bowls that were better than we deserved, based on our record.

Also enforces the super-obvious-point: that beyond the most special bowls, there are no bowl entitlements. Among equal tier teams, bowls have every right to weigh economic prospects (e.g., Purdue to the Music City Bowl). These are independent bowls which, subject to some discretion they have bargained away to the B1G, can do whatever they feel like.

And it finishes with the super-super obvious point: you aren’t complaining from solid ground when you lose to BG and IL, and finish unranked. That isn’t the performance that earns you a mythical entitlement.

We already had a great bowl-type game this year … against Wisconsin. Having a another bowl game in Phoenix against a good WV team is icing on the cake for me. If folks want to top their cake with sour grapes instead of icing, it’s their right. But it is an odd choice.
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Gonna say effin BS. We could swap those two with Wisconsin and Purdue and the results would be the same. We got hosed. Probably could have lost to all four and still gotten the same bowl. Wins should mean something.
 

USAF said:
This is a stupid article.

Let's recap it's points:

We don't get the Outback because we were there recently, and PSU is a blue blood. Conferene record doesn't matter. Better overall record doesn't matter. Attendence doesn't matter. I guess someone's idea of who is, and who isn't a "blue blood" DOES matter though.

We can't get the Music City Bowl, for no reason whatsoever. However, the fact Purdue was there recently all of a sudden doesn't matter. Attendence, however, now DOES matter.

We can't go to Vegas because Wisconsin hasn't ever been to the Vegas Bowl. Remind me when the Gophers were last in the Vegas Bowl... Also, attendance now matters again, but just by pure speculation. "Wisconsin travels well." That didn't matter for the Outback Bowl, but now it does.

We cant go to New York because Maryland played WVU. "Head to head doesn't matter" unless it's in NON CONFERENCE play. Then because the Big12 sent WVU to to Phoenix, the B1G can't send Maryland there.

We got ******. Spin all you want, we got ******.
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There are massive injustices, true injustices, occurring daily all over the world. I can’t find it in myself to rage about a truly unimportant first-world issue such as which post-season bowl the unranked Gophers get invited to. I am just going to enjoy the bowl and this wonderful Gopher team. But, rage on if that’s what makes you tick.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
Everything you say is true and part of the process for when teams are all within one game of each other. They don't care about conference head-to-head and conference records at this point. It's not part of the process. The article points out that MN got the Citrus and Outback bowls in the same manner over other teams. The bowls are a way to celebrate and watch your team play another game. Let's win 9 or more games next year and see where we end up.
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Citrus Bowl in 2014.....yes. We jumped a 9-3 Nebraska team when we were 8-4. 2019 Outback Bowl.....no. In fact.....if you really want to split hairs.....the 10-2 Gophers could have played Alabama in the Citrus Bowl over the 9-3 Wolverines. But really....those games were basically equal in my eyes.
 



Gophergrandpa said:
There are massive injustices, true injustices, occurring daily all over the world. I can’t find it in myself to rage about a truly unimportant first-world issue such as which post-season bowl the unranked Gophers get invited to. I am just going to enjoy the bowl and this wonderful Gopher team. But, rage on if that’s what makes you tick.
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You have 1500 posts on this board, but NOW it's all unimportant relative to world hunger?
 

MplsGopher said:
Another thing I posted in the other thread:

if you really believe that nothing more than number of wins and the "two wins rule" are the end all be all, that means you believe the Citrus Bowl would have been allowed to select a 9-3 unraked Gophers over 10-3 #15 ranked Iowa.


Yeah, I don't believe that either. There's more to the story.
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Would they have been allowed? Possibly.
Would they have chosen MN over IA? No, of course not.
 

CentralGopher said:
Gonna say effin BS. We could swap those two with Wisconsin and Purdue and the results would be the same. We got hosed. Probably could have lost to all four and still gotten the same bowl. Wins should mean something.
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Pretty much. By jumping a 7-5 PSU team....that meant that one of the three 8-4 teams was going to be stuck playing a 6-6 team. It's just a total joke. In the past five years Penn State has played in three NY6 games (Rose, Fiesta, and Cotton Bowls) and the Citrus Bowl (2018) in an 8-4 season. Funny thing is we were 7-5 in 2018 and got the Quick Lane Bowl. Go figure. They didn't play a bowl game last year.

My point is that it is a major injustice to prop up one team at the expense of another. A program like Penn State doesn't need the Big Ten pat them on the heads and reward them in a down year.

Edit: I had forgotten that the PSU Cotton Bowl year was 2019. Both finished 10-2. Gophers had the head to head win. CFP committee had the Gophers ranked #18 and PSU ranked #10. Things won't ever change if the bias and favoritism isn't called out. I get it from a national perspective.....but when your own conference is doing it to you? That's down shoddy.
 
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stocker08 said:
Citrus Bowl in 2014.....yes. We jumped a 9-3 Nebraska team when we were 8-4. 2019 Outback Bowl.....no. In fact.....if you really want to split hairs.....the 10-2 Gophers could have played Alabama in the Citrus Bowl over the 9-3 Wolverines. But really....those games were basically equal in my eyes.
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The article states that Outback likely wanted Iowa over MN, but was not allowed due to the new rules and Iowa went to Holiday Bowl.
 

Gophergrandpa said:
There are massive injustices, true injustices, occurring daily all over the world. I can’t find it in myself to rage about a truly unimportant first-world issue such as which post-season bowl the unranked Gophers get invited to. I am just going to enjoy the bowl and this wonderful Gopher team. But, rage on if that’s what makes you tick.
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This is the type of attitude that leads to mediocre Gopher teams. This fanbase needs to demand better.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
The article states that Outback likely wanted Iowa over MN, but was not allowed due to the new rules and Iowa went to Holiday Bowl.
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I was pointing out that we didn't get the Outback Bowl in the "same manner". Penn State jumped teams with better records. In 2019, regardless of whether the Outback Bowl wanted Iowa.....we had the better record. If Iowa would have been 10-2 and we had been 9-3 and jumped them.....then yes.....it would have been in the same manner.
 

MplsGopher said:
Last para: OK, I buy that.

I don't buy that if we finished 9-3, even if ranked in 20-25, that the Big Ten would've (arbitrarily, I think) "lifted" the Outback up into a special tier with the Citrus and only allowed those two to selected between Iowa and Gophers.


That's essentially what it would have to be, for you and Maxy to be correct.


I can't disprove it. Just seems far-fetched to me.
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If MN had 9 wins they couldn't have been "jumped" by PSU -- but could've by Wisc and Purdue. So Citrus and Outback would've had their choice of Iowa, MN, Wisc, and PU. Probably still wouldn't have been MN based on recency in Tampa, but it wouldn't have been PSU.
 

stocker08 said:
I was pointing out that we didn't get the Outback Bowl in the "same manner". Penn State jumped teams with better records. In 2019, regardless of whether the Outback Bowl wanted Iowa.....we had the better record. If Iowa would have been 10-2 and we had been 9-3 and jumped them.....then yes.....it would have been in the same manner.
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The article is saying that Iowa would have been picked over us if not for the new rules in 2019. Since Iowa was there the previous year, they couldn't take them again.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
The article is saying that Iowa would have been picked over us if not for the new rules in 2019. Since Iowa was there the previous year, they couldn't take them again.
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I'm not arguing that fact. My point is that we didn't jump them as a team with a worse record like Penn State did to us this year.
 

stocker08 said:
I'm not arguing that fact. My point is that we didn't jump them as a team with a worse record like Penn State did to us this year.
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There isn't jumping. People need to understand that there is not an order based on records. There are tiers based on records and then once in the tiers, the bowls pick within the rules and with assistance from the Conference. The current system is through 2025, so three more years of this cycle.

This cycle we have gone to Outback and Garanteed Rate Bowls, missing out on a bowl last year.

Finish 8-4 or 7-5 next year, we're likely going to Vegas, New York, or Nashville.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
There isn't jumping. People need to understand that there is not an order based on records. There are tiers based on records and then once in the tiers, the bowls pick within the rules and with assistance from the Conference. The current system is through 2025, so three more years of this cycle.

This cycle we have gone to Outback and Garanteed Rate Bowls, missing out on a bowl last year.

Finish 8-4 or 7-5 next year, we're likely going to Vegas, New York, or Nashville.
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I believe we were offered a bowl last year and declined, since it would have meant no festivities and players basically having to isolate completely over Christmas. I don't blame them a bit.
 

discochris said:
I believe we were offered a bowl last year and declined, since it would have meant no festivities and players basically having to isolate completely over Christmas. I don't blame them a bit.
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Yup that's exactly what PJ said.

Not worth it to have kids stay at school over Christmas and eat box lunches .... for Christmas.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
There isn't jumping. People need to understand that there is not an order based on records. There are tiers based on records and then once in the tiers, the bowls pick within the rules and with assistance from the Conference. The current system is through 2025, so three more years of this cycle.

This cycle we have gone to Outback and Garanteed Rate Bowls, missing out on a bowl last year.

Finish 8-4 or 7-5 next year, we're likely going to Vegas, New York, or Nashville.
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Call it whatever you want. Jumped....passed over....whatever.
 

Fair or not, these decisions are not being made by Gopher Fans with Minnesota ties. They are being made by Bowl Committees in other states.

If we're being dead honest here --

go to any major city outside of MN. Walk down the street and ask someone this question--
"between Penn State and Minnesota, which is a more recognized college football program?"

I submit that 95% or higher of your responses would be "Penn State." They are a brand name in college football. Minnesota is not a brand name in college football.

these bowl committees are not made up of hard-core college football fans who study records and results. they are civic boosters who want to put on a good show with the highest possible attendance and TV ratings. In the big picture world of college football, Penn State is a more recognized name than Minnesota.

given a choice, I suspect that a majority of bowls would make the same decision.
 

USAF said:
You have 1500 posts on this board, but NOW it's all unimportant relative to world hunger?
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I don’t recall contributing any fevered, the-world-is-against-us! posts.
 


Gophergrandpa said:
Just curious: Do you work for The Onion?
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No. But as a fan, I want to see this program move up to the next level, where we are winning championships. I feel too many people in this fanbase are happy with 7-8 win seasons.
 

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