Wow, Tubby says Pastner broke NCAA rule in watching Trevor play

[BleedGopher]

per this Pioneer Press article:

Gophers basketball coach Tubby Smith says Memphis coach Josh Pastner broke NCAA rule in watching Trevor Mbakwe
Smith says Memphis coach broke rule
By Marcus R. Fuller

Memphis basketball coach Josh Pastner broke an NCAA rule by watching University of Minnesota forward Trevor Mbakwe at a non-certified event earlier this month in St. Paul, Gophers basketball coach Tubby Smith told the Pioneer Press.

Pastner traveled to the Twin Cities to follow his recruiting targets at the Best Buy Summer Classic in Bloomington, which is an NCAA-certified event. But he also stopped by the Howard Pulley Pro-Am League in St. Paul on July 13 to watch Mbakwe, a junior who is considering transferring to Memphis or Georgia Tech.

"I think they probably misunderstood what the rules were," Smith said Tuesday. "It might have been miscommunication or something. I don't know."

Lynn Parkes, associate athletics director for Memphis, a Conference USA school, wrote Wednesday in an e-mail to the Pioneer Press, "We have submitted a report of this to both the NCAA and C-USA offices."

Gophers compliance director J.T. Bruett said Wednesday that the NCAA allows college players to participate in the Pulley summer league, but it is not a certified event, meaning college coaches can't go there and recruit players.

Mbakwe was suspended all of last season while awaiting trial on a felony assault charge in Miami. He has asked Minnesota to release him from his scholarship if the NCAA grants him a waiver allowing him to play elsewhere next season. Transfers normally need to sit out a year. Mbakwe has not received word on his request.

Smith said he's not upset at Mbakwe for pursuing other options. He understands why other coaches such as Pastner are trying to recruit the 6-foot-8, 240-pound Mbakwe.
The Gophers have not allowed the St. Paul native to play until they hear the results of the trial, now scheduled for Aug. 23. Smith said he still hopes Mbakwe will end up playing for the Gophers after stints at Marquette and Miami Dade College.

"We would love to have him back," Smith said. "That's why we recruited him, because we believe he fits our needs and we have an opportunity for him. I would love to coach him. I think he would be a great asset to our program and to the whole area. I think it would be great for him to stick around and do things he needs to get done."

Smith said it will be difficult for Mbakwe to get a waiver from the NCAA. Former Gopher Royce White, who decided to play for Iowa State after being suspended all last season, also is hoping for a waiver to play immediately.

Concerning White, Smith said: "You just hope for the best and pray things work out for him. Royce has a good opportunity there with (Cyclones coach) Fred Hoiberg and the Iowa State program. They reached out to him. Hopefully, he'll do what he has to do to play college basketball."

Briefly: Merrill (Wis.) High School senior forward Paul Jesperson, who visited the Gophers twice and considered them for his final choice, gave an oral commitment to Virginia on Wednesday night. The 6-7 Jesperson was one of the nation's best shooters and ranked as the top 2011 player in the state of Wisconsin.

http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_15571513

Go Gophers!!

 

[Gopher Warrior]

Well, I'm shocked

 

[Friend Of Tubby]

No Big Deal

I think he did, too.

Pastner is one of those (many) Div I coaches who pushes the line and steps over it sometimes.

 

[fan of Ray Williams]

Take a bow GW. Good job presenting the evidence.

 

[GopherLady]

Well, I'm shocked

Gopher Warrior – as I said before, I’d eat my words if I was wrong, and I was wrong, you were right.

As for more details to the situation, I just got off the phone with Josh Pastner, and he gave me permission to post the sequence of events, as there was no violation intended, nor was he aware of one. I stuck to my guns so much on this, because the day after it happened, I met him at the Best Buy Tourney, and he forwarded me this email from compliance (email addresses and names are obviously deleted - no need to rag on the compliance person that was incorrect). Compliance did assure him that it was on the NCAA certified league list. Now that they have submitted it to the NCAA, it’s public record, so he told me I could post it.

It should also be noted, that he will not suffer any penalty for this, as it was compliance’s misunderstanding. He looked into this when he got home on Friday, because he wanted to make sure. Since then, he’s such a stand up guy that he actually called Tubby to tell him about this (which is how Tubby found out).

Trust me, I want to hate Memphis too – like I have for my life as a basketball fan, but I really don’t think Pastner is the type to do anything against the rules, and he genuinely seems like a good guy that’s trying to do things the right way there.

Anyways, I don’t want this to take away from GW’s kudos – you were right, and I didn’t give you enough credit. I apologize for that, but this is just to explain where I was coming from and why I protected my source, and was very passionate about it.

From: Joshua P Pastner (jppstner)
To: Joshua P Pastner (jppstner)
Sent: Wed Jul 14 07:38:42 2010
Subject: FW: Certified events/leagues

________________________________________
From:
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 1:18 PM
To: Joshua P Pastner (jppstner)
Subject: RE: Certified events/leagues
Josh,

Yes, per bylaw 13.1.8.4 (4) during the summer evaluation period, it is permissible for a men's basketball coach to attend non-institutional organized events (e.g. camps, leagues, tournaments and festivals) that are CERTIFIED. The event that you were talking about is on the NCAA Certified League list (see below). Accordingly, IT IS PERMISSILBE FOR YOU TO ATTEND THE EVENT LISTED BELOW.


Pro City League at Salvation Army Community Center in St Paul, Minnesota
www.howardpulleybasketball.com
June 21-24 and 28-30;
July 1, 5-8, 13-14, 19-22, and 26-30
Turhen Pulley
612 770 0309
[email protected]


XXXXXXX
Assistant Athletic Director- Compliance
570 Normal Drive
Athletic Office Building, Suite 109
Memphis, TN 38152
Don't let People, Problems & the Pain of your Past -Pause your Present, Punish your Person, Prison your Potential, & Paralyze your Progress.... ANGELA DAVIS

-----Original Message-----
From: Joshua P Pastner (jppstner)
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 9:30 AM
To:
Subject: Certified events/leagues

XXXXXX,
Am I able to attend a summer pro am league that is certified by the NCAA like the bluff city league. I am not sure if it is under a certified event list but it is under the certified leagues by the ncaa. As long as it would fall under the applicable recruiting calendar which today and tomorrow it would fall for evaluation. I was going to pop in and see Trevor Mbwake play

 

[Friend Of Tubby]

This Was A Minor (Inadvertent) Violation

Happens all the time.

Happened to Tubby in summer of 2000 when he was recruiting Josh Carrier. UK reported it to NCAA. No penalty.

 

[tchoopsczar]

2 issues I see here.

1) There's been much ado in the past about recruiting players who are already verbally committed (remember Eric Gordon and the Illinois/Indiana fiasco). Isn't there something rather dirty about Memphis openly recruiting Trevor when he's still on a U of M scholarship? In the pros, I believe they call this tampering. I wonder how JohnnyGopher feels about having his tampering comments removed now.

2) In my opinion, Pastner should be sanctioned if he violated any rules by watching Trevor play or by talking to him. All coaches have to pass a rules test before they go out on the road. Yes the NCAA rules are arcane and stupid (such as you can give a kid a bagel, but not cream cheese to put on it), hence the need for compliance departments, but as the head coach the buck stops with Pastner. Its his program and he's ultimately responsible for all facets of it. It sounds like the compliance person is being thrown under the bus and Pastner has no blame. I'm not a fan of that at all.

 

[fan of Ray Williams]

2 issues I see here.

1) There's been much ado in the past about recruiting players who are already verbally committed (remember Eric Gordon and the Illinois/Indiana fiasco). Isn't there something rather dirty about Memphis openly recruiting Trevor when he's still on a U of M scholarship? In the pros, I believe they call this tampering. I wonder how JohnnyGopher feels about having his tampering comments removed now.

2) In my opinion, Pastner should be sanctioned if he violated any rules by watching Trevor play or by talking to him. All coaches have to pass a rules test before they go out on the road. Yes the NCAA rules are arcane and stupid (such as you can give a kid a bagel, but not cream cheese to put on it), hence the need for compliance departments, but as the head coach the buck stops with Pastner. Its his program and he's ultimately responsible for all facets of it. It sounds like the compliance person is being thrown under the bus and Pastner has no blame. I'm not a fan of that at all.

After reading the email....exactly.

 

[matt]

This may be a dumb question but do the compliance officers work for the university or the NCAA?

 

[playhosea!]

Because I would like to see Trevor acquitted, then play for the Gophers, I hope that this story is covered by the media in the shallowest, most sensationalistic way possible that ignores all facts about an innocent mistake and forces Memphis back off recruiting him.

I'm thinking screaming headlines like, "Memphis Caught Cheating AGAIN Trying To Land Accused Felon"

Does that make me a bad person?

 

[GopherLady]

After reading the email....exactly.

How does the email throw compliance under the bus? Don't you have to throw someone under the bus when you get caught? That email was before there was any knowledge of wrongdoing. It was simply a communication Pastner asking for permission to attend an event because he didn't know if the league was certified like his one in Memphis.

 

[Friend Of Tubby]

2 issues I see here.

1) There's been much ado in the past about recruiting players who are already verbally committed (remember Eric Gordon and the Illinois/Indiana fiasco). Isn't there something rather dirty about Memphis openly recruiting Trevor when he's still on a U of M scholarship? In the pros, I believe they call this tampering. I wonder how JohnnyGopher feels about having his tampering comments removed now.

2) In my opinion, Pastner should be sanctioned if he violated any rules by watching Trevor play or by talking to him. All coaches have to pass a rules test before they go out on the road. Yes the NCAA rules are arcane and stupid (such as you can give a kid a bagel, but not cream cheese to put on it), hence the need for compliance departments, but as the head coach the buck stops with Pastner. Its his program and he's ultimately responsible for all facets of it. It sounds like the compliance person is being thrown under the bus and Pastner has no blame. I'm not a fan of that at all.

1st point is not true. Gophers have released Mbakwe to seek a transfer. He visited Memhis. They are free to recruit him, just not at this (Pulley) event.

2nd point, this was a minor violation. No sanction unless deliberate. If CO had said Don't Go and Pastner did anyway, for example.

 

[JohnnyGopher]

1st point is not true. Gophers have released Mbakwe to seek a transfer. He visited Memhis. They are free to recruit him, just not at this (Pulley) event.



Trevor is still in school at Minnesota and was in a Gopher uniform two weeks ago when they practiced. he is free to explore his options but it is a shady deal. Trevor is trying to play both sides depending on his waiver request. if he wants to go to Memphis that bad then just go and deal with the consequences if your waiver is denied.

 

[Blizzard]

As for more details to the situation, I just got off the phone with Josh Pastner

How come I don't have Pastner's phone number?

 

[Friend Of Tubby]

1st point is not true. Gophers have released Mbakwe to seek a transfer. He visited Memhis. They are free to recruit him, just not at this (Pulley) event.

Trevor is still in school at Minnesota and was in a Gopher uniform two weeks ago when they practiced. he is free to explore his options but it is a shady deal. Trevor is trying to play both sides depending on his waiver request. if he wants to go to Memphis that bad then just go and deal with the consequences if your waiver is denied.

Shady, perhaps. Illegal (to recruit him), no. Minnesota granted him a release to explore transfer options.

 

[aero74]

The issue here appears to be that the compliance officer didn't distinguish between a certified league and a certified event. On the job learning has taken place for the compliance officer. I doubt Memphis would make the same mistake again.

 

[fan of Ray Williams]

GopherLady, I'm making way too big a deal out of it trying to be "right".

 

[Reserve]

Not towards you GL but does anyone think it's really odd that Pastner would allow GL to post emails between him and his compliance officer?

I mean that's great that he's so open about it but in the follow up the Commercial Appeal also had an article this morning saying that Pastner couldn't comment on it after self reporting the violation.

It's nice that Pastner allows us to see his efforts as far as compliance goes but allowing priviledged communications to be posted on an open forum?

Maybe he cares what we of the Gopherhole think?

Seems odd.

 

[tjgopher]

Shady, perhaps. Illegal (to recruit him), no. Minnesota granted him a release to explore transfer options.

I am fairly certain that a Memphis assistant coach was in contact with Trevor before MN granted the release. In fact, I would go as far as to suggest the reason Trevor asked for the release from MN was BECAUSE OF the contact he had with Memphis. That is against the rules.

I really don’t think Pastner is the type to do anything against the rules, and he genuinely seems like a good guy that’s trying to do things the right way there.

GopherLady, I like that you want to give people the benefit of the doubt (as you did with Royce for months on here), but Pastner has pushed the envelope for years as a recruiter. Doesn't make him a bad guy, but it also doesn't make him squeaky clean or "above" reproach. The very, very good possibility that they were calling Trevor and telling him they'd let him play and they'd get him a waiver to make him eligible right away and putting these ideas into his head tells me really all I need to know about the guy. Don't let him sweet talk his way out of this whole ordeal with you.

 

[BleedGopher]

ESPN weighs in:

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebask...538/the-memphis-minnesota-recruiting-intrigue

Go Gophers!!

 

[Reserve]

Here's the Commercial Appeal article ( short ) about it ..

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2010/jul/22/u-of-m-self-reports-violation/

 

[TrueLies]

not gonna go there

 

[Reserve]

The point of signing up to post that picture was....?

 

[fan of Ray Williams]

not gonna go there

Good for you, glad you took it off.

 

[Gopher Warrior]

Secondaries are not extraordinarily uncommon, but now having seen the e-mail exchange and having better understanding some background matters, I wouldn't be quick to write this off as no big deal if I was a Memphis fan.


- Nicole Green, the compliance person that Pastner reportedly consulted, has been with Memphis for approximately 7 years. The last 3.5 years she has been in the position of Assistant Athletic Director for Compliance and for the time period prior to that ‘oversaw the initial and continuing eligibility and NCAA certification of every student-athlete’. Paraphrasing her signature quote that she includes on her e-mails is somewhere between comical and scary: “Don't let… Problems… of your Past - Pause your Present”

- Pastner’s e-mail to Ms. Green indicates that he understood the league was certified by the NCAA (presumably because he looked at their site – the site where there is a disclaimer that reads, “Note: League certification DOES NOT permit NCAA Division I basketball coaching staff members to attend. Please consult the list of certified events to identify those competitions that Division I coaches may attend.”) His e-mail also indicates he understands there is a difference between a certified event and a certified league.

Ms. Green’s response gives her reasoning for her conclusion: “The event that you were talking about is on the NCAA Certified League list (see below). Accordingly,…” She then cuts and pastes information about the league from the NCAA website page that includes the disclaimer that clearly indicates that “League certification DOES NOT permit NCAA Division I basketball coaching staff members to attend.”

One might think that a reasonable person in Pastner’s position would respond, “like I said, I already know that the league is certified – I’m asking if it is a certified EVENT – please clarify”. Not only did Ms. Green’s response not answer the question, but the Bylaw citation was incorrect.

- Minimum requirements at certified events – there are minimum requirements at certified events – for example, during this past evaluation period, a separate area section for coaches is required. If you were out at Jefferson, you would have seen that the coaches were in a separate section in the main gym and that they were on the running track, above the courts in the activity center. This is not because they are VIPs and don’t want to have to sit around the common folk - it’s a minimum requirement.

A reasonable person may expect that a D1 head coach walking into the Sal would immediately have questions… ‘Why can I sit anywhere here? … Where are the required posted signs?... Hmm, maybe this isn’t a certified event… maybe I should pull out my phone and double-check the website that is updated all the time.”

-----------

At the end of the day, I'll give the guy the benefit of the doubt that there was nothing shiesty or intentional here, but at a minimum it was really stupid. There are plenty of rules and regulations that are a bit complex and/or silly. There is nothing complex or confusing about this one - the NCAA publishes a listing of certified events. Look at it. If you want your compliance contact to look at it for you, fine, but ask another question if you don't get a real answer to the question.

 

[tjgopher]

Secondaries are not extraordinarily uncommon, but now having seen the e-mail exchange and having better understanding some background matters, I wouldn't be quick to write this off as no big deal if I was a Memphis fan.


- Nicole Green, the compliance person that Pastner reportedly consulted, has been with Memphis for approximately 7 years. The last 3.5 years she has been in the position of Assistant Athletic Director for Compliance and for the time period prior to that ‘oversaw the initial and continuing eligibility and NCAA certification of every student-athlete’. Paraphrasing her signature quote that she includes on her e-mails is somewhere between comical and scary: “Don't let… Problems… of your Past - Pause your Present”

- Pastner’s e-mail to Ms. Green indicates that he understood the league was certified by the NCAA (presumably because he looked at their site – the site where there is a disclaimer that reads, “Note: League certification DOES NOT permit NCAA Division I basketball coaching staff members to attend. Please consult the list of certified events to identify those competitions that Division I coaches may attend.”) His e-mail also indicates he understands there is a difference between a certified event and a certified league.

Ms. Green’s response gives her reasoning for her conclusion: “The event that you were talking about is on the NCAA Certified League list (see below). Accordingly,…” She then cuts and pastes information about the league from the NCAA website page that includes the disclaimer that clearly indicates that “League certification DOES NOT permit NCAA Division I basketball coaching staff members to attend.”

One might think that a reasonable person in Pastner’s position would respond, “like I said, I already know that the league is certified – I’m asking if it is a certified EVENT – please clarify”. Not only did Ms. Green’s response not answer the question, but the Bylaw citation was incorrect.

- Minimum requirements at certified events – there are minimum requirements at certified events – for example, during this past evaluation period, a separate area section for coaches is required. If you were out at Jefferson, you would have seen that the coaches were in a separate section in the main gym and that they were on the running track, above the courts in the activity center. This is not because they are VIPs and don’t want to have to sit around the common folk - it’s a minimum requirement.

A reasonable person may expect that a D1 head coach walking into the Sal would immediately have questions… ‘Why can I sit anywhere here? … Where are the required posted signs?... Hmm, maybe this isn’t a certified event… maybe I should pull out my phone and double-check the website that is updated all the time.”

-----------

At the end of the day, I'll give the guy the benefit of the doubt that there was nothing shiesty or intentional here, but at a minimum it was really stupid. There are plenty of rules and regulations that are a bit complex and/or silly. There is nothing complex or confusing about this one - the NCAA publishes a listing of certified events. Look at it. If you want your compliance contact to look at it for you, fine, but ask another question if you don't get a real answer to the question.

I concur. For coaches and schools with a clean slate, it isn't much. But, the fact that Memphis is in the middle of a three-year probationary period will make this look worse.

Memphis was specifically instructed by the NCAA in 2009 to implement a “comprehensive educational program on NCAA legislation” and submit annual compliance reports with “particular emphasis on the monitoring of official paid visits, team travel and the academic eligibility of student-athletes.”

Given that, I don't think the NCAA will hit them with anything hard for this, but it may not just be a letter, either.

 

[GopherLady]

Trevor is still in school at Minnesota and was in a Gopher uniform two weeks ago when they practiced. he is free to explore his options but it is a shady deal. Trevor is trying to play both sides depending on his waiver request. if he wants to go to Memphis that bad then just go and deal with the consequences if your waiver is denied.

If I were Trevor, I'd be doing the exact same thing. He's already stuck out an entire year doing everything right. I wouldn't take my chances on a waiver if I were him, playing only one year vs. two could make a huge difference if he wants to continue his bball career.

How come I don't have Pastner's phone number?

I don't know, why don't you?

Not towards you GL but does anyone think it's really odd that Pastner would allow GL to post emails between him and his compliance officer?

I mean that's great that he's so open about it but in the follow up the Commercial Appeal also had an article this morning saying that Pastner couldn't comment on it after self reporting the violation.

It's nice that Pastner allows us to see his efforts as far as compliance goes but allowing priviledged communications to be posted on an open forum?

Maybe he cares what we of the Gopherhole think?

Seems odd.

I thought so too - which is obviously why I never posted my source before, but since it's public information now, it doesn't really matter. I actually think his method of PR is brilliant - if you talk 1st and are honest, you get to deliver the message you want. If you're not media friendly, people will spin things anyway and you will look like you're hiding something and be on defense, instead of offense. I do think he cares what people think - not like a weird obsession like some coaches, but just because he doesn't want people to think he knowingly would wrongfully do something unethical.

GopherLady, I like that you want to give people the benefit of the doubt (as you did with Royce for months on here), but Pastner has pushed the envelope for years as a recruiter. Doesn't make him a bad guy, but it also doesn't make him squeaky clean or "above" reproach. The very, very good possibility that they were calling Trevor and telling him they'd let him play and they'd get him a waiver to make him eligible right away and putting these ideas into his head tells me really all I need to know about the guy. Don't let him sweet talk his way out of this whole ordeal with you.

You're right, I do - and I want to believe in the good in people, and their honesty...and I get burned by doing that at times. However, if I am ever lied to or betrayed, I hold a life-long grudge and will never trust again. That's why I called him out on this, as I did go to bat for him. And I don't feel he lied to me at all. As far as when they recruited Trevor - I can only go with what I've heard from both parties, and they said it was when he got his release (do I believe that 100%...not sure). What I do know is if they really did tell Trevor he would get a waiver, I think he'd be long gone by now. I don't think Trevor, or the coaching staff "expects" that, I think they both know it's not common, which is why he is waiting this out patiently.

 

[Gopher Warrior]

Given that, I don't think the NCAA will hit them with anything hard for this, but it may not just be a letter, either.

Yeah, I checked out the reaction (and some of the comments over the past week) at a couple of Memphis spots today - interesting. This could be more than just a form letter response coming back to Memphis - probably not the end of the world, but this looks a lot worse than most folks realize/want to believe.

I didn't realize what the excuse would be, but it's bad. I could certainly understand how a person with a reasonable, objective perspective (i.e., the NCAA?) could take a look at this one and call 'b*******!'

I sincerely look forward to watching their team and I hate some of the silly rules out there... and I've certainly been wrong before and will be again in the future, and have been disappointed in my own teams for violations in the past.. in major ways.. but it's interesting to watch ignorance speak sometimes.

Even someone at ESPN was quick to pick up the story from Dan Wolken and take everything as fact (“no big deal, Wolken said so”), when the reality is Wolken (who actually is usually a very good writer, but has decided to disregard his ignorance on this topic) has no clue when it comes to what is and what is not a certified event, even though it is extremely simple, straightforward and easy to get clarification on.

Wolken’s story this morning said, “Similar to the Bluff City Classic, NCAA coaches are apparently not allowed to attend, even during summer evaluation periods for recruits.” Of course, that’s not true – the HP and Bluff City leagues are both certified leagues, but that is irrelevant to the violation. The question is whether or not they are certified events. There are, in fact, days where the Bluff City league is a certified event… whereas in the case of HP, there are not any such days.

Then you’ve got the Memphis Roar guy explaining that it’s a non-issue ("This issue has been blown highly out of proportion and should not be a concern for Memphis fans....something minor like this")… but of course, this is the same guy who several days ago said, “It’s not a violation. 100% completely within the rules.” I wonder if he’s “100% completely” sure on the violation being a non-issue. Although I will say - he's got great credibility and people that know him have great respect and admiration for him, so I think there may just be something about this issue that he's being weird on.

I have only read Tubby's brief comments on this matter and think he simply said he knew there was a violation, but didn't know what the deal was as to why it happened.. he didn't say he knew it was a simple misunderstanding or that it was a big deal or not a big deal. Taken in full context, all he said was, "I don't know". He's not involved in it, just knows about it because he was given a heads up. That's all, but some have read into things that are not there (i.e., Tubby says it's no big deal, we're fine!). Strange.

Oh well. I'm probably wrong on all of this and they're right on point, as usual...

TigerStripes - "Just a couple of things to clear up.. It's not a violation. MN coaches can attend these games. Pastner is very careful particularly since we are on probation with the NCAA."

jabberblue - "As for Coach P, we can be assured he will be honorable, do his due diligence on and off the court.. They will go where they have to and use every legal NCAA rule to do so. I understand Gopher fans frustration. "

anothertigerfan - "Someone asked Wolken on twitter if it's a violation and he said it's message board BS. The Wolken has Spoken."

Brooks H - "It's not a violation. 100% completely within the rules."

TigersOhMy - "that gopher warrior d*uche is still going on about pastner and NCAA rules even after being shown the rule "

 

[fan of Ray Williams]

TigersOhMy - "that gopher warrior d*uche is still going on about pastner and NCAA rules even after being shown the rule "
I'm sorry GW, I started laughing my butt off when I read that last line.

 

[ImASaint]

If only your fans could show the same amount of class that your coach does. I have always liked Tubby, think he is a breath of fresh air as far as the integrity of college coaches go. (i sincerely mean this)

And congrats to MN for being a clean program since day one. (This, of course, is sarcasm)