Wow - Marcus: Johnson is arguably at a point in his tenure when he might also need for people to be patient with him.

[Gopher_In_NYC]

Holy cow, wow, just wow.

Per Marcus:

With the Gophers still not consistent winners, Johnson is arguably at a point in his tenure when he might also need for people to be patient with him, especially after Tuesday’s 75-63 loss against Northwestern at Williams Arena.

“We are just mentally stuck right now,” Johnson said.

After riding high with road victories at UCLA and USC, the Gophers (14-14, 6-11 Big Ten) went from 11th place entering the week to 16th after Tuesday’s loss.

Gophers men’s basketball team plunges further with home loss to Northwestern

That makes back-to-back losses to Big Ten bottom-feeders, complicating the U’s efforts to qualify for the postseason tournament.

www.startribune.com

Go Gophers!!

Even a clueless fan and CBJ supporter, like I can see this is nonsensical claptrap.

Me after the last two Home Ls -

Eddie Murphy - Trading Places: I Can See - Part 1 #shorts

Eddie Murphy - Trading Places: I Can See - part 1 #shortsHey Eddie Murphy Fans! The Eddie Murphy Comedy channel provides you with the funniest Eddie Murphy s...

youtube.com

I was wrong, I often am

 

[jamiche]

Not saying he isn't, but how were Tubby and Richard not good dudes? I found both miles more interesting and engaging than Ben.

I think "good dude" from the medias perspective is defined as is the person approachable, does the coach provide access, does the coach help you meet deadline, does the coach publicly embarrass you, is the coach a straight shooter etc.

I suspect Pitino and Tubby were also good dudes who got longer leashes than Ben will get because they had comparatively better results.

 

[IceBoxGopher]

It's probably not the solution, but it's also not out of the question. There is truth to allowing coaches to truly grow a culture and program. Its seems nearly impossible in this day and age, however.

Richard got 8 years with one winning conference record.
Tubby got 6 years with zero winning conference records.
Monson got 7 years with two winning conference records.

Sure, but at the same time, in their first four seasons,

• Monson, who took over the program after the Haskins situation, had three winning seasons with three NIT berths.
• Tubby had three years with 20 or more wins, four winning seasons overall, an NIT berth and two NCAA berths
• Pitino had two seasons of 24 and 25 wins, one including an NIT title and the other an NCAA berth and three overall winning seasons

So far, Johnson has one winning record and one NIT berth. He may or may not have an overall winning season this year, but probably no post season play.

And I would argue that despite the NIL situation, the Big Ten was tougher for Tubby and Pitino with the likes of Thad Matta, Tom Crean, John Beilein, Bo Ryan and Bruce Weber strengthening the rest of the conference around Tom Izzo and Matt Painter.

Also,

Vs. Wisconsin, First Four Years

• Dan Monson, 1-7
• Tubby Smith, 3-3
• Richard Pitino, 1-7
• Ben Johnson, 0-6

Vs. Iowa, First Four Years

• Dan Monson, 3-4
• Tubby Smith, 6-0
• Richard Pitino, 3-3
• Ben Johnson, 1-5

Overall, there are growing pains early in a coach's tenure and it takes time to build a program. But compared to the last three coaches, even acknowledging the struggles in shaping a team in early seasons, Johnson has underperformed.

 

[JZABR]

I didn't bother reading the article because I value my brain cells

 

[Bad Gopher]

I'm sorry, but the only way to explain this is racial.

There can be no other explanation.

Do they not watch this team?

Ben Johnson is a glowing example of the psychological failure of DEI initiatives. If you get a job largely because you are black, firing that person feels racial. The thing Ben brought to the table that distinguished him from other candidates was his ethnicity. It was clearly never really about his resume. Even though they won't admit it, even his supporters were really supporting his ethnicity. When you fire someone, you typically fire them for not fulfilling their end of the bargain. Ben is still an African American local guy. To these folks, because they supported the hire through a racial lens, critique's of Ben/discussions of firing Ben will always be somewhat racial. It creates the absolute absurdity like this article and LEN's article.

Let's address this...or at least part of this.

Bias exists, and each of us possesses some. The classes I've taken on bias are eye-opening...and that's the point of the courses: to raise awareness and give people tools to overcome their biases and make as objective of decisions as they can.

It's natural and understandable for an African-American writer like Marcus to have affinity and fraternity with an African-American coach. Call it bias or call it whatever, and feel free to judge whether it's proper or not, but it's understandable. And what MNV said: black men have been underrepresented in the coaching fraternity. Most of us feel good when that can be ameliorated through the consideration and potential hiring of qualified African-American candidates. Certainly, Marcus is inclined to feel that way, and more power to him. Lastly, that Johnson is as accessible and friendly as he is gives him a leg up on favorable treatment.

Race aside, access and favor poltics in sports is nothing new and will never go away. Ron Gardenhire would only allow friendly reporters into his inner office after games. Never forget that's part of what we're dealing with here. You're starting to see an extreme of that now with the White House press corps.

This is why you have to take what Marcus and Neal and others have said and written with a grain of salt and make your own judgments, which people are doing here. We're better informed than casual fans, however; they're going to get their perspectives from these major-media reporters, which may be unfortunate but is the way of the world.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Let's address this...or at least part of this.

Bias exists, and each of us possesses some. The classes I've taken on bias are eye-opening...and that's the point of the courses: to raise awareness and give people tools to overcome their biases and make as objective of decisions as they can.

It's natural and understandable for an African-American writer like Marcus to have affinity and fraternity with an African-American coach. Call it bias or call it whatever, and feel free to judge whether it's proper or not, but it's understandable. And what MNV said: black men have been underrepresented in the coaching fraternity. Most of us feel good when that can be ameliorated through the consideration and potential hiring of qualified African-American candidates. Certainly, Marcus is inclined to feel that way, and more power to him. Lastly, that Johnson is as accessible and friendly as he is gives him a leg up on favorable treatment.

Race aside, access and favor poltics in sports is nothing new and will never go away. Ron Gardenhire would only allow friendly reporters into his inner office after games. Never forget that's part of what we're dealing with here. You're starting to see an extreme of that now with the White House press corps.

This is why you have to take what Marcus and Neal and others have said and written with a grain of salt and make your own judgments, which people are doing here. We're better informed than casual fans, however; they're going to get their perspectives from these major-media reporters, which may be unfortunate but is the way of the world.

Agreed with pretty much everything you posted. However, I think it's important to note that the public should also judge those reporters who leave the realm of rationality. If they cannot get over their biases to report with even a semblance of rationale thought, they should be treated like idiots. Having a bias isn't an excuse for being an idiot, it's almost always the cause.

This is true for all biases. There is the sports writer out of Boston (can't remember his name) who has clips discussing Brady being over the hill in the preason of like his last 5 Super Bowls. Reusse clearly has an issue with Fleck which has led him to writing absurd articles.

You're 100% right though, it's incredibly common.

 

[WoodburyTim]

Ben Johnson is a glowing example of the psychological failure of DEI initiatives. If you get a job largely because you are black, firing that person feels racial. The thing Ben brought to the table that distinguished him from other candidates was his ethnicity. It was clearly never really about his resume. Even though they won't admit it, even his supporters were really supporting his ethnicity. When you fire someone, you typically fire them for not fulfilling their end of the bargain. Ben is still an African American local guy. To these folks, because they supported the hire through a racial lens, critique's of Ben/discussions of firing Ben will always be somewhat racial. It creates the absolute absurdity like this article and LEN's article.

And here in lies the problem. I am more than willing to listen to arguments that race, gender or ethnicity should play a role in hiring decisions. I probably won’t agree but I will listen to an honest argument advocating for even things I don’t believe in.

But what has happened isn’t honest. Coyle said flat out that race would play a role in the hiring and candidate pool for the basketball head coach. Just google it, the internet doesn’t forget. But even with that unequivocal proof we are now being told it didn’t play a role and his hiring and retention have nothing to do with race. Well okay, then why did the U and Coyle lie 4 years ago and say it did?

 

[howeda7]

I think it’s common for a beat writer that covers a team to support the coach. Marcus certainly has a right to his opinion but it’s not changing mine or for that matter Coyles.

I don't expect the beat writer to call for the coach's head, but his over the top defense of Ben is pathetic. You'd think our incoming freshman recruits were the Fab 5 if you read Marcus's write-up on them. Poor Ben just needs patience for these spectacular freshman and revenue sharing to kick in. That will solve everything. It's absurd.

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

Sure, but at the same time, in their first four seasons,

• Monson, who took over the program after the Haskins situation, had three winning seasons with three NIT berths.
• Tubby had three years with 20 or more wins, four winning seasons overall, an NIT berth and two NCAA berths
• Pitino had two seasons of 24 and 25 wins, one including an NIT title and the other an NCAA berth and three overall winning seasons

So far, Johnson has one winning record and one NIT berth. He may or may not have an overall winning season this year, but probably no post season play.

And I would argue that despite the NIL situation, the Big Ten was tougher for Tubby and Pitino with the likes of Thad Matta, Tom Crean, John Beilein, Bo Ryan and Bruce Weber strengthening the rest of the conference around Tom Izzo and Matt Painter.

Also,

Vs. Wisconsin, First Four Years

• Dan Monson, 1-7
• Tubby Smith, 3-3
• Richard Pitino, 1-7
• Ben Johnson, 0-6

Vs. Iowa, First Four Years

• Dan Monson, 3-4
• Tubby Smith, 6-0
• Richard Pitino, 3-3
• Ben Johnson, 1-5

Overall, there are growing pains early in a coach's tenure and it takes time to build a program. But compared to the last three coaches, even acknowledging the struggles in shaping a team in early seasons, Johnson has underperformed.

Great data - thanks!

 

[Johnnyboy18]

Ben Johnson is a glowing example of the psychological failure of DEI initiatives. If you get a job largely because you are black, firing that person feels racial. The thing Ben brought to the table that distinguished him from other candidates was his ethnicity. It was clearly never really about his resume. Even though they won't admit it, even his supporters were really supporting his ethnicity. When you fire someone, you typically fire them for not fulfilling their end of the bargain. Ben is still an African American local guy. To these folks, because they supported the hire through a racial lens, critique's of Ben/discussions of firing Ben will always be somewhat racial. It creates the absolute absurdity like this article and LEN's article.

This completely ignores the 'one of us' factor and the failure of prior head coaches (and now Ben too) to keep the top basketball kids home. Ben was the lead recruiter for Coffey and Jarvis and both said he was a key factor for them staying here. Not to mention Hurt and others mentioning they would have stayed if he was coach. Did it turn out that they were going to actually come here or future recruits would stay here? No, but to ignore this is hilarious considering how big of a discussion it was surrounding this program the last 15 years.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

This completely ignores the 'one of us' factor and the failure of prior head coaches (and now Ben too) to keep the top basketball kids home. Ben was the lead recruiter for Coffey and Jarvis and both said he was a key factor for them staying here. Not to mention Hurt and others mentioning they would have stayed if he was coach. Did it turn out that they were going to actually come here or future recruits would stay here? No, but to ignore this is hilarious considering how big of a discussion it was surrounding this program the last 15 years.

"Ben is still an African American local guy". I didn't ignore it, they wanted a local African American coach. Ben's selling point was that he was an African American guy who is a basketball coach and had some local ties. Like all DEI hires, there are factors other than race. Like most things, it flew way over your head.

 

[WoodburyTim]

This completely ignores the 'one of us' factor and the failure of prior head coaches (and now Ben too) to keep the top basketball kids home. Ben was the lead recruiter for Coffey and Jarvis and both said he was a key factor for them staying here. Not to mention Hurt and others mentioning they would have stayed if he was coach. Did it turn out that they were going to actually come here or future recruits would stay here? No, but to ignore this is hilarious considering how big of a discussion it was surrounding this program the last 15 years.

But Coyle made public statements that diversity would be part of the hiring process. Did he ever say that being “one of us” would be part of the process?

Some are trying really hard to change history to support their idealogy…

 

[Johnnyboy18]

But Coyle made public statements that diversity would be part of the hiring process. Did he ever say that being “one of us” would be part of the process?

Some are trying really hard to change history to support their idealogy…

"We look around the region and the number of kids that aren't here. We are going to get them here," said Coyle, who also had Brian Dutcher (San Diego State), Craig Smith (Utah State), Dennis Gates (Cleveland State) and Ben Jacobson (Northern Iowa) among others on his radar.

'Over five years at his post, Coyle has grown impatient with the lack of traction the program has had during a time when the high school talent in the state has never been higher.'

New Gophers coach's aim: Keep local talent home

New Minnesota coach Ben Johnson said he aims to prioritize keeping in-state talent home, saying, "They need to look forward to trying to become a Gopher"

www.espn.com

I don't have an ideology. Right wing bobos on GH on the otherhand..

 

[Spaulding!No!]

"We look around the region and the number of kids that aren't here. We are going to get them here," said Coyle, who also had Brian Dutcher (San Diego State), Craig Smith (Utah State), Dennis Gates (Cleveland State) and Ben Jacobson (Northern Iowa) among others on his radar.

'Over five years at his post, Coyle has grown impatient with the lack of traction the program has had during a time when the high school talent in the state has never been higher.'

New Gophers coach's aim: Keep local talent home

New Minnesota coach Ben Johnson said he aims to prioritize keeping in-state talent home, saying, "They need to look forward to trying to become a Gopher"

www.espn.com

I don't have an ideology. Right wing bobos on GH on the otherhand..

100% what i recall. Glad to the importance of the aau connection die.

 

[USAF]

But Coyle made public statements that diversity would be part of the hiring process.

Can you provide those statements?

The only thing I can find is this:

"We’re committed to having a very diverse pool of coaches to look at,” Coyle said. “… We want to cast a very wide net.”

I read that as "a wide net." Not as DEI will have any role. Or, as you claimed in a previous post, that Coyle said race would play a role.

 

[WoodburyTim]

"We look around the region and the number of kids that aren't here. We are going to get them here," said Coyle, who also had Brian Dutcher (San Diego State), Craig Smith (Utah State), Dennis Gates (Cleveland State) and Ben Jacobson (Northern Iowa) among others on his radar.

'Over five years at his post, Coyle has grown impatient with the lack of traction the program has had during a time when the high school talent in the state has never been higher.'

New Gophers coach's aim: Keep local talent home

New Minnesota coach Ben Johnson said he aims to prioritize keeping in-state talent home, saying, "They need to look forward to trying to become a Gopher"

www.espn.com

I don't have an ideology. Right wing bobos on GH on the otherhand..

Calling other people right wing bobos pretty much shows that you do indeed have an ideology. And that is fine, we all have opinions.

Plus you don’t need to be right wing to question whether the Johnson hire has anything to do with diversity. Hate to keep telling the truth over and over but Coyle openly said it did. I don’t know if people are saying he lied? That doesn’t make much sense.

 

[Johnnyboy18]

Calling other people right wing bobos pretty much shows that you do indeed have an ideology. And that is fine, we all have opinions.

Plus you don’t need to be right wing to question whether the Johnson hire has anything to do with diversity. Hate to keep telling the truth over and over but Coyle openly said it did. I don’t know if people are saying he lied? That doesn’t make much sense.

Where did he say this? He said they would have diverse candidates, as do most jobs.

Not that 'diversity would be part of the hiring process'. What does that even mean?

Right wing bobos is the only way to describe people who come up with conspiracies despite evidence to the contrary. In this instance the Gopher AD saying why he hired the guy. Much like my opinion on Gopher basketball sucking no matter who is in charge, think politicians will suck no matter who is in charge. Hence no ideology.

 

[WoodburyTim]

Can you provide those statements?

The only thing I can find is this:

"We’re committed to having a very diverse pool of coaches to look at,” Coyle said. “… We want to cast a very wide net.”

I read that as "a wide net." Not as DEI will have any role. Or, as you claimed in a previous post, that Coyle said race would play a role.

So saying that diversity in the candidate pool isn’t saying that diversity is playing a role in who they are looking at?

And this is my problem. I don’t have a problem with those advocating for diversity, but then why afterward saying that it never plays a role? If it had no role in the candidate pool then there would be no need for DEI. This is simple logical thinking.

 

[WoodburyTim]

Where did he say this? He said they would have diverse candidates, as do most jobs.

Not that 'diversity would be part of the hiring process'. What does that even mean?

Right wing bobos is the only way to describe people who come up with conspiracies despite evidence to the contrary. Much like my opinion on Gopher basketball sucking no matter who is in charge, think politicians will suck no matter who is in charge. Hence no ideology.

Oh come one. When someone says that diversity will play a role in the process and candidate pool then I take them at their word. I am simply going by what he said. This is very simple logic.

If it didn’t you would say, “our candidates regardless of race, gender, or ethnicity will be based on who can win basketball games and represent the U in a fashion that reflects our long proud and honorable traditions.”

The fact that I believe in that previous paragraph makes me a right wing bobo is a sad reflection on our society and political spectrum.

 

[jamiche]

For the sake of 8-10 posters who can’t forgive Ben for being a black coach and who have claimed without providing evidence that Gabel forced the hire and who have claimed without providing evidence that junior Muss and junior Dutcher were fighting for the job, let’s all pray that Coyle doesn’t hire another black coach.
I hope he’s learned his lesson!

 

[Johnnyboy18]

Oh come one. When someone says that diversity will play a role in the process and candidate pool then I take them at their word. I am simply going by what he said. This is very simple logic.

If it didn’t you would say, “our candidates regardless of race, gender, or ethnicity will be based on who can win basketball games and represent the U in a fashion that reflects our long proud and honorable traditions.”

The fact that I believe in that previous paragraph makes me a right wing bobo is a sad reflection on our society and political spectrum.

This all he said about diversity before hiring Ben btw:

The Gophers have not hired a head coach of color since Coyle was hired in May 2016, and that will be a factor in this search process. “We’re committed to having a very diverse pool of coaches to look at,” Coyle said. “… We want to cast a very wide net.”

Gophers AD Mark Coyle on men’s basketball coach candidates, timing of hire

Gophers Athletics Director Mark Coyle tapped the lectern Tuesday as he made a point about why he let go of head men’s basketball coach Richard Pitino on Monday.

www.twincities.com

This is said 10/10 before hiring any coach by the way, especially when asked a question about it. It's literally a rule in the NFL. Does the Rooney rule stop the NFL from hiring white coaches?

What's more likely that happened is Coyle struck out on options 1-5 and landed on Ben. It's probably going to happen this cycle as well if a move is made.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Where did he say this? He said they would have diverse candidates, as do most jobs.

Not that 'diversity would be part of the hiring process'. What does that even mean?

Right wing bobos is the only way to describe people who come up with conspiracies despite evidence to the contrary. In this instance the Gopher AD saying why he hired the guy. Much like my opinion on Gopher basketball sucking no matter who is in charge, think politicians will suck no matter who is in charge. Hence no ideology.

Nihilism is an ideology.

Yes or no, do you think Ben Johnson's ethnicity was part of the reason he was hired?

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

For the sake of 8-10 posters who can’t forgive Ben for being a black coach and who have claimed without providing evidence that Gabel forced the hire and who have claimed without providing evidence that junior Muss and junior Dutcher were fighting for the job, let’s all pray that Coyle doesn’t hire another black coach.
I hope he’s learned his lesson!

No one expects Ben Johnson to apologize for being black. We would like the U to apologize to everyone, African Americans included, for hiring someone because he is black.

I cannot think of a single poster who would have a problem with Coyle hiring any qualified candidate. It's kind of racist of you to insinuate that would preclude African Americans.

 

[WoodburyTim]

This all he said about diversity before hiring Ben btw:

The Gophers have not hired a head coach of color since Coyle was hired in May 2016, and that will be a factor in this search process. “We’re committed to having a very diverse pool of coaches to look at,” Coyle said. “… We want to cast a very wide net.”

Gophers AD Mark Coyle on men’s basketball coach candidates, timing of hire

Gophers Athletics Director Mark Coyle tapped the lectern Tuesday as he made a point about why he let go of head men’s basketball coach Richard Pitino on Monday.

www.twincities.com

This is said 10/10 before hiring any coach by the way, especially when asked a question about it. It's literally a rule in the NFL. Does the Rooney rule stop the NFL from hiring white coaches?

What's more likely that happened is Coyle struck out on options 1-5 and landed on Ben. It's probably going to happen this cycle as well if a move is made.

Alright we can disagree. There are dozens of stories from that time period that discuss race so thinking it was part of the process doesn’t seem that far fetched. But like I have said before I don’t think it was the primary factor or why he is still here. My only point was in the post mortum on Bens tenure every factor, possible or confirmed, can be discussed.

And to tell the truth I think Ben being a native Minnesotan might be a worse reason to hire him than his race. At least in terms of wins.

 

[MonikerSchmoniker45]

A certain segment of GH is pretty adament race had nothing to do with it. That same segment forced race down our throats the last five years. Gavin Newsome must be stopped.

 

[BarnBurner]

Nihilism is an ideology.

Yes or no, do you think Ben Johnson's ethnicity was part of the reason he was hired?

This should be fun......

 

[Johnnyboy18]

Nihilism is an ideology.

Yes or no, do you think Ben Johnson's ethnicity was part of the reason he was hired?

Maybe? I don't think star tribune articles dictate which coaches get hired.

I think it's way smaller factor than you and others imply. I agreed with Coyle (and still do) that landing elite recruits is an essential part of winning basketball games. I think Ben is a solid in-game coach but outside of last year is working with bottom tier talent in the B1G, which is ultimately on him (fair or not). I naively thought Ben could get the 4 star kids to stay home and that would lead to an improved basketball program. This was proven wrong almost instantly when he landed 3 3-star kids from MN while the higher rated ones turned him down. And then the biggest impact one left last year for more money.

I don't think hiring a $2 million mid-major coach with similar resources is going to magically turn Gopher Basketball around. Would love to be proven wrong if/when Coyle makes a move!

 

[Tucker32]

Maybe? I don't think star tribune articles dictate which coaches get hired.

I think it's way smaller factor than you and others imply. I agreed with Coyle (and still do) that landing elite recruits is an essential part of winning basketball games. I think Ben is a solid in-game coach but outside of last year is working with bottom tier talent in the B1G, which is ultimately on him (fair or not). I naively thought Ben could get the 4 star kids to stay home and that would lead to an improved basketball program. This was proven wrong almost instantly when he landed 3 3-star kids from MN while the higher rated ones turned him down. And then the biggest impact one left last year for more money.

I don't think hiring a $2 million mid-major coach with similar resources is going to magically turn Gopher Basketball around. Would love to be proven wrong if/when Coyle makes a move!

"I don't think hiring a $2 million mid-major coach with similar resources is going to magically turn Gopher Basketball around." I agree that this statement is likely true, though they could get lucky like WI did when they hired Bennett and then Ryan. I do think they are going to spend more money than $2 million... they already are. There just was no need to spend more than that the last couple of years.

 

[GopherGrit]

Fuller and Lavalle are buddies with Ben. They hang out and I am sure benefit from a few free drinks and meals on their bud.

I would hope that this wouldn’t make a difference in their reporting, but let’s be honest, the journalistic integrity boat sailed along time ago.

I buy this, definitely

 

[Some guy]

What is this power that Ben has over the local media? And how can P.J. Fleck get a piece of that action? Seriously, my head spins trying to make any sense of this.

It is pretty odd that the best gopher football coach since the 1960s gets questioned at every turn by the media (and maybe rightfully so in moments)
But the worst basketball coach possibly ever is getting media endorsements