Wisconsin made a bold move, do we have the nerve to do the same?

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Well ... yeah.

Minnesota is a tough place to win, and a tough place to recruit.


I don't think it's physically possible to become an Ohio State here, unless major college football starts fairly distributing talent from all over the country to all programs like they do in the NFL.
 

Gophers_4life said:
Well ... yeah.

Minnesota is a tough place to win, and a tough place to recruit.


I don't think it's physically possible to become an Ohio State here, unless major college football starts fairly distributing talent from all over the country to all programs like they do in the NFL.
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No question. Michigan, Ohio State, and Penn State are clearly on a different plateau than all the other teams in the conference. What happens when USC and UCLA join the mix?

So what is the ceiling then in the current football environment? It seems like getting to the Iowa/Wisconsin level shouldn't be unattainable. But it clearly hasn't been attainable under the last few administrations. I'll also be interested to see what Bielema does at Illinois -- a better coach than Fleck at a historically bad program.
 

golfing18now said:
No question. Michigan, Ohio State, and Penn State are clearly on a different plateau than all the other teams in the conference. What happens when USC and UCLA join the mix?

So what is the ceiling then in the current football environment? It seems like getting to the Iowa/Wisconsin level shouldn't be unattainable. But it clearly hasn't been attainable under the last few administrations. I'll also be interested to see what Bielema does at Illinois -- a better coach than Fleck at a historically bad program.
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Bielema and Ferentz could give PJ his choice of teams, and still beat him. They are just better coaches. That doesn’t bode well for us when we do not have a ton of recruits knocking down our door. We need a creative, aggressive game plan, and out guy refuses to do that.
 

Replacement Gopher said:
Bielema and Ferentz could give PJ his choice of teams, and still beat him. They are just better coaches. That doesn’t bode well for us when we do not have a ton of recruits knocking down our door. We need a creative, aggressive game plan, and out guy refuses to do that.
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For sure. Iowa and Illinois never lose games to inferior teams.
Iowa wouldn’t lose to a 4-7 team with a divisional championship roster
Illinois wouldn’t lose to an awful Michigan state or Indiana team with a chance to win the division
 


Go Gophs said:
It should. Minneapolis is a huge city and the University sits right in the middle of it.

Newsflash, most high end football recruits don't come from huge cities. They don't want to live in the middle of a huge metro area and their parents don't want them there either. It is not super nice around dinkytown, have you been down there?
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Replacement Gopher said:
Do we think Iowa or Wisconsin would tolerate as many consecutive losses to Minnesota as we have to Iowa?
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I know what they didn't tolerate...getting smoked by their former HC, Biliema, at home coaching for Illinois! I will actually answer your question, unlike others on this threshold...no!! No, they wouldn't tolerate it! In the case of Wisconsin.. a lot of other bad things would have taken place for them to lost to MN 8 or 9 consecutive times...
 

Some guy said:
For sure. Iowa and Illinois never lose games to inferior teams.
Iowa wouldn’t lose to a 4-7 team with a divisional championship roster
Illinois wouldn’t lose to an awful Michigan state or Indiana team with a chance to win the division
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You didn't address the post.

It was saying: match PJ with any Big Ten roster you choose, then give Ferentz another comparable roster. So, can't be like Rutgers vs Michigan.

The claim is that in any comparable roster matchup, Ferentz would then out coach PJ in the game.


Is that not a clear claim? Doesn't mean it's a correct claim, but it seems pretty clear what is being claimed.


Your post doesn't address this.
 

Gophers_4life said:
You didn't address the post.

It was saying: match PJ with any Big Ten roster you choose, then give Ferentz another comparable roster. So, can't be like Rutgers vs Michigan.

The claim is that in any comparable roster matchup, Ferentz would then out coach PJ in the game.


Is that not a clear claim? Doesn't mean it's a correct claim, but it seems pretty clear what is being claimed.


Your post doesn't address this.
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Ok

You’re right I don’t have a counterclaim to an unprovable fictional what if

I gave some real life examples that dance around the topic instead
 



There is more to being a college P5 head coach than just the in-game decision making and coaching.

Sure. Quite a lot more.

But I think many would agree that that is not PJ's strongest suit.
 

GDMFT:

Paying your players makes up for any of that at Ohio State. If we had been paying guys here for the last 40 years, then we would be a power too no matter where the U sits. They are a top 3 dirtiest program in all of college sports history.
 

Gophers_4life said:
There is more to being a college P5 head coach than just the in-game decision making and coaching.

Sure. Quite a lot more.

But I think many would agree that that is not PJ's strongest suit.
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As a coach? Or as a human?
 






STPGopher said:
Dallas
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There isn't a D1 University in Dallas and the entire state produces more college football players than the entire midwest combined.

Also, if where the U is situated isn't the problem here, then what is it? Because many have tried and all have failed since I have been alive and that is in both of the revenue producing sports.
 

SMU sorry. They had some good teams. Cost them some dollars and the NCAA death penalty.
 


Gophers_4life said:
in-game decision making and (in-game) coaching.
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In game coaching is a lot bigger then knowing when to go for it and when not to. But that’s definitely his biggest weakness in my mind. Whatever he does it seems like it’s always wrong except the auburn game.

Timeout usage isn’t optimal, but it’s not as bad as many argue. He is very public about how he views first half timeouts. Not everyone agrees with his philosophy of first half timeouts. I happen to agree with him. I’d rather use one to get out of a bad play than save them just in case. That doesn’t excuse some situations where a 5 yard delay of game to punt would be better than a timeout.

In game coaching also includes a lot of stuff. We very rarely get subsitustion penalties. We always appear very organized to me. On defense, we sub more than I would prefer and I get nervous. I differ in my philosophy from him.

I don’t mind the fair catch strategy on kick return. I think you’re more likely to get a game changing penalty that pins you deep in your own end than a game changing return. Especially against good teams I think that’s true. If you have a great returner, that’s different. But we don’t.

Punt return I greatly differ. I’m not even sure what we do. We don’t seem to go for blocks or catches. The ball is the program. We seem like we are safe punt return every time. I don’t like that, but if I was going to do that I’d put two guys back deep instead of one to ensure a fair catch every time. When is the last time the other team lined up in punt and we didn’t end the play with the ball? Because that seems to be the only thing he cares about. I think you can be a little riskier and have a 5-10 yard benefit sometimes.

Adjustments wise…I think we have maybe the best defensive adjuster in the country as DC.
I think we make good offensive adjustments in the run game by using formations to take advantages of coverages.
I’m not convinced we make good passing adjustments. I can think of a few instances of different stuff. Slot fade against Illinois might be a touchdown if WR is good, instead it’s a pick. But part of good adjusting is knowing what your people can do.


I don’t think you can say in game coaching is a weakness.
You can point to specific things though
 

Some guy said:
In game coaching is a lot bigger then knowing when to go for it and when not to. But that’s definitely his biggest weakness in my mind. Whatever he does it seems like it’s always wrong except the auburn game.

Timeout usage isn’t optimal, but it’s not as bad as many argue. He is very public about how he views first half timeouts. Not everyone agrees with his philosophy of first half timeouts. I happen to agree with him. I’d rather use one to get out of a bad play than save them just in case. That doesn’t excuse some situations where a 5 yard delay of game to punt would be better than a timeout.

In game coaching also includes a lot of stuff. We very rarely get subsitustion penalties. We always appear very organized to me. On defense, we sub more than I would prefer and I get nervous. I differ in my philosophy from him.

I don’t mind the fair catch strategy on kick return. I think you’re more likely to get a game changing penalty that pins you deep in your own end than a game changing return. Especially against good teams I think that’s true. If you have a great returner, that’s different. But we don’t.

Punt return I greatly differ. I’m not even sure what we do. We don’t seem to go for blocks or catches. The ball is the program. We seem like we are safe punt return every time. I don’t like that, but if I was going to do that I’d put two guys back deep instead of one to ensure a fair catch every time. When is the last time the other team lined up in punt and we didn’t end the play with the ball? Because that seems to be the only thing he cares about. I think you can be a little riskier and have a 5-10 yard benefit sometimes.

Adjustments wise…I think we have maybe the best defensive adjuster in the country as DC.
I think we make good offensive adjustments in the run game by using formations to take advantages of coverages.
I’m not convinced we make good passing adjustments. I can think of a few instances of different stuff. Slot fade against Illinois might be a touchdown if WR is good, instead it’s a pick. But part of good adjusting is knowing what your people can do.


I don’t think you can say in game coaching is a weakness.
You can point to specific things though
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Well said. I do get a kick out of how easy fans try to make the concept of gameday coaching decisions.

In the end every fanbase has gripes about how their coaching staff manages games, you see it all the time.
 

Some guy said:
In game coaching is a lot bigger then knowing when to go for it and when not to. But that’s definitely his biggest weakness in my mind. Whatever he does it seems like it’s always wrong except the auburn game.

Timeout usage isn’t optimal, but it’s not as bad as many argue. He is very public about how he views first half timeouts. Not everyone agrees with his philosophy of first half timeouts. I happen to agree with him. I’d rather use one to get out of a bad play than save them just in case. That doesn’t excuse some situations where a 5 yard delay of game to punt would be better than a timeout.

In game coaching also includes a lot of stuff. We very rarely get subsitustion penalties. We always appear very organized to me. On defense, we sub more than I would prefer and I get nervous. I differ in my philosophy from him.

I don’t mind the fair catch strategy on kick return. I think you’re more likely to get a game changing penalty that pins you deep in your own end than a game changing return. Especially against good teams I think that’s true. If you have a great returner, that’s different. But we don’t.

Punt return I greatly differ. I’m not even sure what we do. We don’t seem to go for blocks or catches. The ball is the program. We seem like we are safe punt return every time. I don’t like that, but if I was going to do that I’d put two guys back deep instead of one to ensure a fair catch every time. When is the last time the other team lined up in punt and we didn’t end the play with the ball? Because that seems to be the only thing he cares about. I think you can be a little riskier and have a 5-10 yard benefit sometimes.

Adjustments wise…I think we have maybe the best defensive adjuster in the country as DC.
I think we make good offensive adjustments in the run game by using formations to take advantages of coverages.
I’m not convinced we make good passing adjustments. I can think of a few instances of different stuff. Slot fade against Illinois might be a touchdown if WR is good, instead it’s a pick. But part of good adjusting is knowing what your people can do.


I don’t think you can say in game coaching is a weakness.
You can point to specific things though
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Great post
 

MNVCGUY said:
Well said. I do get a kick out of how easy fans try to make the concept of gameday coaching decisions.

In the end every fanbase has gripes about how their coaching staff manages games, you see it all the time.
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It's a hard gig, I get it.

I wonder if any coach has ever thought about having like (perhaps somewhat vetted) some percentage of fans have an app or something where they hit what they would do, and the coaching staff can get a readout. Just something on the side, as a datapoint.

There can be wisdom in crowds, sometimes. Sometimes not
 


Replacement Gopher said:
Do we think Iowa or Wisconsin would tolerate as many consecutive losses to Minnesota as we have to Iowa?
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Iowa City and Madison are college towns whose fans focus on those football programs. Twin Cities fans can shrug at the Gophers' typical 500ism and look to the Wild, Timberwolves, Twins, Vikings, for wins (although those are also too few). But the dilution of fan attention allows the Gophers to remain in the shadows.
 


FanSinceTheFifties said:
Iowa City and Madison are college towns whose fans focus on those football programs. Twin Cities fans can shrug at the Gophers' typical 500ism and look to the Wild, Timberwolves, Twins, Vikings, for wins (although those are also too few). But the dilution of fan attention allows the Gophers to remain in the shadows.
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I’ve never believed this. It’s an easy excuse to explain away four decades or more of shitty A.D., and head football coach hires. To me, it’s a simple as that we’ve had under performing individuals in key places that have caused a level of mediocrity or worse that has lasted so long that a lot of the rubes feel like this is the best we can do. It’s not.
 

Gophers_4life said:
It's a hard gig, I get it.

I wonder if any coach has ever thought about having like (perhaps somewhat vetted) some percentage of fans have an app or something where they hit what they would do, and the coaching staff can get a readout. Just something on the side, as a datapoint.

There can be wisdom in crowds, sometimes. Sometimes not
[/
Gopherchase said:
I’ve never believed this. It’s an easy excuse to explain away four decades or more of shitty A.D., and head football coach hires. To me, it’s a simple as that we’ve had under performing individuals in key places that have caused a level of mediocrity or worse that has lasted so long that a lot of the rubes feel like this is the best we can do. It’s not.
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And I've never doubted it since before 61, the Gophers were a national power and a few years after the Vikings et al arrived, the star players started to enroll at other school.
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FanSinceTheFifties said:
Iowa City and Madison are college towns whose fans focus on those football programs. Twin Cities fans can shrug at the Gophers' typical 500ism and look to the Wild, Timberwolves, Twins, Vikings, for wins (although those are also too few). But the dilution of fan attention allows the Gophers to remain in the shadows.
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I also call this lame. With the exception of the NHL (which is the least followed of the major professional sports leagues), Wisconsin has all of the same competition for the sports fan's attention. It's not that hard to follow the Gophers on Saturday and Vikings on Sunday, is it? Just put on a different shirt. They certainly do Badgers/Packers on the other side of the St. Croix.
 

formerlybis said:
I also call this lame. With the exception of the NHL (which is the least followed of the major professional sports leagues), Wisconsin has all of the same competition for the sports fan's attention. It's not that hard to follow the Gophers on Saturday and Vikings on Sunday, is it? Just put on a different shirt. They certainly do Badgers/Packers on the other side of the St. Croix.
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The NHL has a very strong following here. It doesn't matter if its following is weak in other parts of the country for this argument. Wild are putting around 18,000 per game in the seats 41 times a year (and it's not a cheap ticket). That's real money.

We also have an MLS team that draws around 20,000 a game 17 times a year.
 
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Word said:
The NHL has a very strong following here. It doesn't matter if its following is weak in other parts of the country for this argument. Wild are putting around 18,000 per game in the seats 41 times a year. That's real money.

We also have an MLS team that draws around 20,000 a game 17 times a year.
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Whining. MLS? Cmon. Whatever makes you feel better about Gopher apathy, I guess.
 

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