Winning at a .700 Clip


I think he's saying it's a bit of a distortion to pick out some arbitrary time frame to make something look good.

Kinda like a Nebraska fan that would pick out their record from the "glory days" rather than look at the big picture.
I guess we can’t talk about bowling green then since it’s an arbitrary game
 

...

Tyler Johnson (NFL) wasn't a bad guy to have at WR. Rashad Still reminds me a lot of Dylan Wright. Eric Carter reminds me of MBS.

...
Rashad Still reminds me of Troy Williamson.
 

For those who talk about the 9-4 season as being a bright point for the Gophers season, none of you must have watched the news that year.
On the field we were 9-4.
Off the field we were 0-12.

Fleck has us similar or better record on the field.
Off the field, seems like we are 12-0.
 

For those who talk about the 9-4 season as being a bright point for the Gophers season, none of you must have watched the news that year.
On the field we were 9-4.
Off the field we were 0-12.

Fleck has us similar or better record on the field.
Off the field, seems like we are 12-0.
Yeah. Some don’t want to see it

Not all his fault but TC had mismanaged the program into a national embarrassment situation. Had undermined the AD and university publicly.

9-4 wasn’t some high point, it was literally the worst the program was seen by the majority of the public since the early 90s (for different reasons then).
 


Yeah. Some don’t want to see it

Not all his fault but TC had mismanaged the program into a national embarrassment situation. Had undermined the AD and university publicly.

9-4 wasn’t some high point, it was literally the worst the program was seen by the majority of the public since the early 90s (for different reasons then).
Hold up....you're not trying to suggest teams should be evaluated on more than just their record are you?....I mean that would be crazy to look at the big picture.....take that foolishness somewhere else.... :)
 


Just like I think it is ridiculous when people try to ignore 2019 by saying things like "Fleck's record doesn't look as good if you take away the year when he went 11-2," I am not a fan of trying to ignore the 2016 season. We went 9-4, and it was a real 9-4, and that was the second best record I have seen since I started undergrad at the U in 2006.

I also don't think acknowledging that the 2016 team was a good Gopher team and left some useful pieces for Fleck should be that controversial, and certainly shouldn't need to be taken as a shot at Fleck. I bet Fleck himself would say he was glad to have Rodney Smith, Tyler Johnson (who many people say is one of the big reasons Morgan looked so good in 2019), Shannon Brooks, Seth Green, Antoine Winfield Jr., Kamal Martin, and Carter Coughlin. He probably would say that some of those guys contributed quite a bit to the 2019 season.

I know that 2016 graduated the starting QB, but to hear the way many people rag on Kill and Claeys' QB development (and Leidner individually), it sounds like a lot of posters here think that the 2016 team was good enough to win 9 games without much of a QB.
 

Wow....Credit where credit is due, that is impressive reimagining of what the 2017 roster was.

Your version is relying on a lot of Freshman that developed into good players, a TE you label as NFL which is really misleading and your memory of Rashad Still and Eric Carter is a bit rosier than mine.

But your assertion that Croft and Green could have been capable of running the offense is where you lost me. Neither of those guys is a Big Ten QB....there was a reason they went out and begged Rhoda to come back....and it wasn't because of his talent.

It isn't meant as a dig at those players or the previous coaches but that 2017 roster was not setup for success and if they had kept Claeys the record of 5-7 would probably have been around where they would have ended up as well. The cupboard wasn't bare, clearly, but it also wasn't stocked with players ready to play at a high level in 2017.

It is really shocking there are people that actually believe that 2017 team would have been able to duplicate the 9 wins from 2016. It wasn't going to happen and again that is no matter who the coach was.
edited to note roster also included Rodney, Shannon, Kobe and JFC
 



Hold up....you're not trying to suggest teams should be evaluated on more than just their record are you?....I mean that would be crazy to look at the big picture.....take that foolishness somewhere else.... :)
On the record. The team went 8-4.
Finished 4th in the west.
7th best conference record.
Beat Colorado state who had a winning record and northwestern who had a winning record. Both 7-6

combined records of the teams they beatwere:
36-62


then, scandal




then a miracle. Great game that will forever live in gopher lore.
a great game that to this day the coaching staff deserves credit for.
a great game that to this day divides the fan base.

should beating 8-5 Washington State have merited keeping the job in spite of the essentially interim coach publicly giving the university a bad name? Maybe. But what’s done is done. It’s over. No AD in the country would have kept Claeys around with that low of a cost of getting rid of him after publicly undermining him. Blame Coyle if you want to for how he did it, but there isn’t anyone that would’ve kept him around.
 

Just like I think it is ridiculous when people try to ignore 2019 by saying things like "Fleck's record doesn't look as good if you take away the year when he went 11-2," I am not a fan of trying to ignore the 2016 season. We went 9-4, and it was a real 9-4, and that was the second best record I have seen since I started undergrad at the U in 2006.

I also don't think acknowledging that the 2016 team was a good Gopher team and left some useful pieces for Fleck should be that controversial, and certainly shouldn't need to be taken as a shot at Fleck. I bet Fleck himself would say he was glad to have Rodney Smith, Tyler Johnson (who many people say is one of the big reasons Morgan looked so good in 2019), Shannon Brooks, Seth Green, Antoine Winfield Jr., Kamal Martin, and Carter Coughlin. He probably would say that some of those guys contributed quite a bit to the 2019 season.

I know that 2016 graduated the starting QB, but to hear the way many people rag on Kill and Claeys' QB development (and Leidner individually), it sounds like a lot of posters here I think that the 2016 team was good enough to win 9 games without much of a QB.
I certainly did think 2016 roster was good enough to win with a mediocre QB. And they did win.
they beat all the bad and average teams except Iowa and Nebraska.
They went 0-2 against ranked teams.
they avoided 2 of the top 4 teams in the conference

They had I would argue the 5-6th best team since 1990 behind:
2019
2003
1999
2014

Maybe 2013

Had they won one of the 4 they lost they would’ve passed 2014 for sure as well.
 

Just like I think it is ridiculous when people try to ignore 2019 by saying things like "Fleck's record doesn't look as good if you take away the year when he went 11-2," I am not a fan of trying to ignore the 2016 season. We went 9-4, and it was a real 9-4, and that was the second best record I have seen since I started undergrad at the U in 2006.

I also don't think acknowledging that the 2016 team was a good Gopher team and left some useful pieces for Fleck should be that controversial, and certainly shouldn't need to be taken as a shot at Fleck. I bet Fleck himself would say he was glad to have Rodney Smith, Tyler Johnson (who many people say is one of the big reasons Morgan looked so good in 2019), Shannon Brooks, Seth Green, Antoine Winfield Jr., Kamal Martin, and Carter Coughlin. He probably would say that some of those guys contributed quite a bit to the 2019 season.

I know that 2016 graduated the starting QB, but to hear the way many people rag on Kill and Claeys' QB development (and Leidner individually), it sounds like a lot of posters here think that the 2016 team was good enough to win 9 games without much of a QB.
The 2019, successful season likely doesn't happen if Fleck didn't have Claeys' recruits as the base.

I know that some think the cupboard was bare when PJF arrived.

It wasn't!
 

Celestin,

Honestly, the posters that keep harping on running down players and coaches that gave blood, sweat, and tears for the Maroon and Gold can't be actual fans of the program.

Demry Croft and Seth Green both could have been very capable quarterbacks in a run first, limited passing attempts, limited passing route offense, which is what PJ has shown is what he likes to run.

Having Rodney Smith (NFL), Shannon Brooks, (2,290 career Yards) Kobe McCrary (little bit of NFL) and Jonathan Femi Cole (CFL) wasn't bad.

PJ likes big, veteran olines that he can pair with big blocking TEs.

He started with a bunch of returning oline starters, upper classmen including Greene (NFL), Calhoun (lower level pro ball), Weyler, Wright and Connelly...Dovich and Oseland offered some nice veteran depth. Talented RS frosh ready to go included Schlueter and Olson. Blaise Andries was a true frosh recruit committed when he arrived.

Wozniak (NFL) and Lingen added some very capable, experienced upper classmen at TE. Beebe, Witham. Kieft nice depth.

Tyler Johnson (NFL) wasn't a bad guy to have at WR. Rashad Still reminds me a lot of Dylan Wright. Eric Carter reminds me of MBS.

Santoso (NFL), Herbers (AllBig HM), Carpenter (AllBig, School record holder), Jordahl not a bad special teams crew to take over.

Admittedly, he wasn't left much on defense with Celestin (NFL), Huff (All Big HM), Huff, Cashman (NFL), Kamal (NFL), Barber (AllBig 3rd, HM), Richardson (NFL-CFL), Stelter (some lower level pro) , DeLattiboudere, Winfield (NFL), Kiondre (NFL), Shenault, McGhee, Ayinde, Durr (AllBig HM x 2), Renner (NFL), Moore, Merrick Jackson.

Program in 2017 was two years removed from multiple sellouts.

Program was just about to move into great new practice, study, dining facilities, which previous staff had pushed, campaigned hard for.
This is a joke, right?

Theres a reason Claeys was fired.
 



The 2019, successful season likely doesn't happen if Fleck didn't have Claeys' recruits as the base.

I know that some think the cupboard was bare when PJF arrived.

It wasn't!
It doesn't happen if Claeys stays, either.
 

Just like I think it is ridiculous when people try to ignore 2019 by saying things like "Fleck's record doesn't look as good if you take away the year when he went 11-2," I am not a fan of trying to ignore the 2016 season. We went 9-4, and it was a real 9-4, and that was the second best record I have seen since I started undergrad at the U in 2006.

I also don't think acknowledging that the 2016 team was a good Gopher team and left some useful pieces for Fleck should be that controversial, and certainly shouldn't need to be taken as a shot at Fleck. I bet Fleck himself would say he was glad to have Rodney Smith, Tyler Johnson (who many people say is one of the big reasons Morgan looked so good in 2019), Shannon Brooks, Seth Green, Antoine Winfield Jr., Kamal Martin, and Carter Coughlin. He probably would say that some of those guys contributed quite a bit to the 2019 season.

I know that 2016 graduated the starting QB, but to hear the way many people rag on Kill and Claeys' QB development (and Leidner individually), it sounds like a lot of posters here think that the 2016 team was good enough to win 9 games without much of a QB.
The whole argument is stupid and is driven by people's opinion of the head coaches as opposed to reality. Nobody should discount 2016, it was a good solid year. At the same time nobody should have expected that the success of 2016 was guaranteed to carryover to 2017.

The idea that Fleck inherited a 9 win team is just flat out wrong. He inherited a team that won 9 games in the previous season and he inherited a team that was in a better position for success than the one Kill inherited from Brewster but Fleck also inherited a deeply flawed roster with some major holes in some of the most important positions on the field.

I hate repeating it but it bears repeating because anyone that thinks that 2017 team had a chance to win 9 games is fooling themselves. 2017 was going to be a rough year with that roster, regardless of who was working the sideline.

The program was not in a great spot heading into 2017. Again that is not to say things were as bad as when Kill took over or that the Kill years didn't bring some much needed stability to the program. It is just simply to say that through graduation and roster building the 2017 team was not setup well for success.

I really don't know why these discussions are even happening at this point. Fleck has an 11 win season under his belt and this year's team has a great shot of competing for and winning the West the way things are playing out. Why some choose to live in and argue about the past really doesn't make a ton of sense at this point.

Not sure why it is so hard for some to admit that Kill did a solid job here but Fleck has a chance to take things to an even higher level of success that we weren't able to get to under Kill.
 

The 2019, successful season likely doesn't happen if Fleck didn't have Claeys' recruits as the base.

I know that some think the cupboard was bare when PJF arrived.

It wasn't!
You are 100% right, it wasn't bare, but it wasn't loaded with talent either. That 2016 class developed into a very solid group of players who absolutely were a big part of the success in 2019.

Glad to see you back.....you doing ok after the win on Saturday?.....hopefully that wasn't too painful for you.
 

You are 100% right, it wasn't bare, but it wasn't loaded with talent either. That 2016 class developed into a very solid group of players who absolutely were a big part of the success in 2019.

Glad to see you back.....you doing ok after the win on Saturday?.....hopefully that wasn't too painful for you.
Huh? Beating the Frosties made my day!
 

It doesn't happen if Claeys stays, either.
Agree. Unfortunately the U has had way too many scandals over the decades. The one in TC's last year will hopefully be the last.

And I also agree that Fleck doesn't have to be a HOF HC to be successful. Just run a clean program, graduate guys, and the rest will take care of itself.
 

The whole argument is stupid and is driven by people's opinion of the head coaches as opposed to reality. Nobody should discount 2016, it was a good solid year. At the same time nobody should have expected that the success of 2016 was guaranteed to carryover to 2017.

The idea that Fleck inherited a 9 win team is just flat out wrong. He inherited a team that won 9 games in the previous season and he inherited a team that was in a better position for success than the one Kill inherited from Brewster but Fleck also inherited a deeply flawed roster with some major holes in some of the most important positions on the field.

I hate repeating it but it bears repeating because anyone that thinks that 2017 team had a chance to win 9 games is fooling themselves. 2017 was going to be a rough year with that roster, regardless of who was working the sideline.

The program was not in a great spot heading into 2017. Again that is not to say things were as bad as when Kill took over or that the Kill years didn't bring some much needed stability to the program. It is just simply to say that through graduation and roster building the 2017 team was not setup well for success.

I really don't know why these discussions are even happening at this point. Fleck has an 11 win season under his belt and this year's team has a great shot of competing for and winning the West the way things are playing out. Why some choose to live in and argue about the past really doesn't make a ton of sense at this point.

Not sure why it is so hard for some to admit that Kill did a solid job here but Fleck has a chance to take things to an even higher level of success that we weren't able to get to under Kill.
Actually he has already done this.
 

It is really shocking there are people that actually believe that 2017 team would have been able to duplicate the 9 wins from 2016. It wasn't going to happen and again that is no matter who the coach was.
The team went 5-7.

They were beating Purdue in the 4th quarter.
They were tied with Maryland until 1:10 and lost by 7.
They lost to MSU by 3.
They lost to Iowa by 7, were very much in the game throughout.

They were not only very close to duplicating 8-4 from 2016, they were very close to going 9-3.
 

Celestin,

Honestly, the posters that keep harping on running down players and coaches that gave blood, sweat, and tears for the Maroon and Gold can't be actual fans of the program.

Demry Croft and Seth Green both could have been very capable quarterbacks in a run first, limited passing attempts, limited passing route offense, which is what PJ has shown is what he likes to run.

Having Rodney Smith (NFL), Shannon Brooks, (2,290 career Yards) Kobe McCrary (little bit of NFL) and Jonathan Femi Cole (CFL) wasn't bad.

PJ likes big, veteran olines that he can pair with big blocking TEs.

He started with a bunch of returning oline starters, upper classmen including Greene (NFL), Calhoun (lower level pro ball), Weyler, Wright and Connelly...Dovich and Oseland offered some nice veteran depth. Talented RS frosh ready to go included Schlueter and Olson. Blaise Andries was a true frosh recruit committed when he arrived.

Wozniak (NFL) and Lingen added some very capable, experienced upper classmen at TE. Beebe, Witham. Kieft nice depth.

Tyler Johnson (NFL) wasn't a bad guy to have at WR. Rashad Still reminds me a lot of Dylan Wright. Eric Carter reminds me of MBS.

Santoso (NFL), Herbers (AllBig HM), Carpenter (AllBig, School record holder), Jordahl not a bad special teams crew to take over.

Admittedly, he wasn't left much on defense with Celestin (NFL), Huff (All Big HM), Huff, Cashman (NFL), Kamal (NFL), Barber (AllBig 3rd, HM), Richardson (NFL-CFL), Stelter (some lower level pro) , DeLattiboudere, Winfield (NFL), Kiondre (NFL), Shenault, McGhee, Ayinde, Durr (AllBig HM x 2), Renner (NFL), Moore, Merrick Jackson.

Program in 2017 was two years removed from multiple sellouts.

Program was just about to move into great new practice, study, dining facilities, which previous staff had pushed, campaigned hard for.
You are such a great Gopher fan that you remember all the talent that was still in the Gopher Football Program for Coach Fleck to figure out how to use for his first season

Some people around here are rather fond of trying to give a great coach like Coach Fleck too much excuse and handicap for his first season’s record. He spent the bulk of his first season teaching the vocabulary basis & sometimes painful lessons of his culture to the players he had remaining on the squad and the recruits just joining the squad as well as Gopher fans and Twin Cities media. He also had copyright issues with purchasing and transferring “…Row the Boat…” rights from Western Michigan to the University of Minnesota.

Obviously THAT process was essential to Coach Fleck and is now paying huge dividends to the great results Coach Fleck is getting from the CULTURE and the mold of HIS football teams & players.
So, if you love Gopher Football under Coach Fleck the way I now do, you must realize that in his plan: first build the culture! Year one was more about building the culture than it was about wins and losses. He obviously did a great job of turning the team into HIS team that first season.

It is NO sin to recognize that there actually WAS some real TALENT that Coach Fleck inherited from the previous staff. Quite a few names made huge contributions to that wonderful 2019 season!

If you love Fleck ball, embrace the culture and realize that was Coach Fleck’s MAJOR focus in his first season at the helm of this Golden Gopher Football Program , IMHO.
 
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The 2019, successful season likely doesn't happen if Fleck didn't have Claeys' recruits as the base.

I know that some think the cupboard was bare when PJF arrived.

It wasn't!
It also doesn’t happen without Fleck adding a bunch of players including a qb. Fleck arrived in 2017, how good were those 2019 players in 2017?
 


It also doesn’t happen without Fleck adding a bunch of players including a qb. Fleck arrived in 2017, how good were those 2019 players in 2017?
I sure as hell hope players would have improved between 2017 and 2019!

Was that a sarcastic question? Guys like Winfield, Durr, TJ, SS, Barber, and Coughlin were TC recruits.

I know you're just messing with me. There was a solid base here when PJ arrived.
 

The team went 5-7.

They were beating Purdue in the 4th quarter.
They were tied with Maryland until 1:10 and lost by 7.
They lost to MSU by 3.
They lost to Iowa by 7, were very much in the game throughout.

They were not only very close to duplicating 8-4 from 2016, they were very close to going 9-3.
You forgot that was year Zero, tho.
 

I sure as hell hope players would have improved between 2017 and 2019!

Was that a sarcastic question? Guys like Winfield, Durr, TJ, SS, Barber, and Coughlin were TC recruits.

I know you're just messing with me. There was a solid base here when PJ arrived.
Fleck didn't inherit Winfield Jr or Seth green. They were among the ten players suspended for the holiday Bowl. Fleck had to recruit those two players and others to keep them from transferring. And they had to conform to his program. There was a lot of turmoil back before the holiday Bowl and ultimately led to class dismissal and the hiring of fleck. It would be nice to get beyond all this mess and realize fleck has brought improvement that go far beyond the record. We have something we can all take pride in. Lets enjoy this run.
 

I sure as hell hope players would have improved between 2017 and 2019!

Was that a sarcastic question? Guys like Winfield, Durr, TJ, SS, Barber, and Coughlin were TC recruits.

I know you're just messing with me. There was a solid base here when PJ arrived.
People like to rag on Fleck for 2017 like he should’ve improved on 9 wins, I’m pointing out that the most talented players he inherited were mostly young and inexperienced.
 

Fleck didn't inherit Winfield Jr or Seth green. They were among the ten players suspended for the holiday Bowl. Fleck had to recruit those two players and others to keep them from transferring. And they had to conform to his program. There was a lot of turmoil back before the holiday Bowl and ultimately led to class dismissal and the hiring of fleck. It would be nice to get beyond all this mess and realize fleck has brought improvement that go far beyond the record. We have something we can all take pride in. Lets enjoy this run.
OK, let's clarify... Winfield and Green never left campus. That better?

I bet only a handful of programs would have taken players potentially facing criminal charges.

I guess we can go back and forth all day debating how much talent remained from a 9 win team.
 

Celestin,

Honestly, the posters that keep harping on running down players and coaches that gave blood, sweat, and tears for the Maroon and Gold can't be actual fans of the program.

Demry Croft and Seth Green both could have been very capable quarterbacks in a run first, limited passing attempts, limited passing route offense, which is what PJ has shown is what he likes to run.

Having Rodney Smith (NFL), Shannon Brooks, (2,290 career Yards) Kobe McCrary (little bit of NFL) and Jonathan Femi Cole (CFL) wasn't bad.

PJ likes big, veteran olines that he can pair with big blocking TEs.

He started with a bunch of returning oline starters, upper classmen including Greene (NFL), Calhoun (lower level pro ball), Weyler, Wright and Connelly...Dovich and Oseland offered some nice veteran depth. Talented RS frosh ready to go included Schlueter and Olson. Blaise Andries was a true frosh recruit committed when he arrived.

Wozniak (NFL) and Lingen added some very capable, experienced upper classmen at TE. Beebe, Witham. Kieft nice depth.

Tyler Johnson (NFL) wasn't a bad guy to have at WR. Rashad Still reminds me a lot of Dylan Wright. Eric Carter reminds me of MBS.

Santoso (NFL), Herbers (AllBig HM), Carpenter (AllBig, School record holder), Jordahl not a bad special teams crew to take over.

Admittedly, he wasn't left much on defense with Celestin (NFL), Huff (All Big HM), Huff, Cashman (NFL), Kamal (NFL), Barber (AllBig 3rd, HM), Richardson (NFL-CFL), Stelter (some lower level pro) , DeLattiboudere, Winfield (NFL), Kiondre (NFL), Shenault, McGhee, Ayinde, Durr (AllBig HM x 2), Renner (NFL), Moore, Merrick Jackson.

Program in 2017 was two years removed from multiple sellouts.

Program was just about to move into great new practice, study, dining facilities, which previous staff had pushed, campaigned hard for.

I'm not sure what you're trying to prove with this list, because you can do the same thing for Kill.

On offense, Kill inherited Maqueis Gray, who I would easily take over Croft and co. He got Duane Bennett and Donnell Kirkwood at RB. Da'Jon McKnight and Brandon Green at WR. Zac Epping and Ed Olson at OL.

On defense, he inherited Ra'Shede Hageman and Cam Botticelli at DL. Mike Rallis and Gary Tinsley at LB. And Michael Carter, Brock Vereen, Troy Stoudermire, and Kim Royston at DB.

Kill inherited some very talented and experienced football players.

Kill went 3-9 his first year, which included home losses to NMSU and NDSU.
 

Honestly, the posters that keep harping on "inheriting" a 9-4 roster can't be actual fans of this program.
That roster accounted for most of the key positions in the 2019 11-2 season. Funny how that seems get lost...
 




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