Will Notre Dame QB Dayne Crist end up at UW

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Badger_inohiovalley said:
I enjoy talking UW football with you guys. It's fun.
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Burt BigEnema family picture:

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This guy IS NOT Russell Wilson. Who cares if they bring him in. The level of play they got from Russell Wilson is something they would maybe get 1 out of 50 times in this one year situation.
 


GVBadger said:
The Wilson situation was a perfect match, I can't see that set of circumstances working again. I find all the hand wringing about Wilson to be funny. This summer, according to this board he was not that good, too short, and going to be a non factor. Now, he is the only reason the Badgers had a good year and some people are bitter about the rule. That is generally the way it works.

Good discussion.
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I've never seen a post be wrong on SO many levels.
#1: I don't remember anyone thinking that Wilson wasn't good. There could have been a minority of people who believed that but the overwhelming majority of people on this board thought Wilson was the piece that made you go from good to elite. I still think WI is head and shoulders the best team in the Big 10. I remember posting on that thread about him coming to WI and the general consensus was that Wilson was going to be like a MUCH better version of Bollinger (good thrower, can scramble and thrown on the run). I don't remember anyone arguing that he was too short or that he wasn't very good. If anyone did argue that, they were completely off base. Every fan base has people that have no idea what they are talking about. I don't judge Badger fans by the degenerate tools who troll other team's football boards, I realize that there are going to be a certain segment of morons. Some morons thought Wilson wasn't going to be good (VAST MINORITY) and some morons are trolls (AGAIN, VAST MINORITY).

#2: Where is anyone saying that he is the sole reason why WI is good? I think everyone here knows that it still starts and ends for WI with running the football and having a terrific OL. Do I think they'll take a bit of a step back? Sure. It won't be nearly as bad if Konz and Ball come back, but if they leave WI will have a lot of holes to fill. They are a good program and equiped for managing that transition, but I expect a step back (8 win team) for them. I guess I don't see where the general consensus on this board thinks that WI is a one man team. Heck, their 2nd best player (IMO) is a HEisman Finalist. No one thinks that.

#3: Look at this thread, before you idiots came on here it was a normal discussion about the rule and it was pretty mixed. I'd imagine that opinions on this rule are pretty mixed everywhere. There certainly wasn't a consensus from Gopherhole that "we hate the rule because we're bitter". Just scroll through the thread and look at the amount of posters who like the rule and the amount of posters who don't like the rule, it's about even (probably slightly more people defend the rule).
 


If you go to the board of an opposing team to have a "discussion," on your team or players, you have issues that can't be helped here. This is basically an anonymous forum, and as an anonymous forum, things are said that would never be said in person--and logic gets thrown out the door.

Posting at another fan board is, in a word, "sad". There is no "discussion," with opposing supporters, and no amount of logic will change someone's mind. Ain’t worth it.

I have never trolled a single post, ever. I stay here and make my feelings known here--right or wrong. Yes, I have often posted stupid and inflammatory remarks due to the before mentioned anonymity--but I stay here.
 

highwayman said:
If you go to the board of an opposing team to have a "discussion," on your team or players, you have issues that can't be helped here. This is basically an anonymous forum, and as an anonymous forum, things are said that would never be said in person--and logic gets thrown out the door.

Posting at another fan board is, in a word, "sad". There is no "discussion," with opposing supporters, and no amount of logic will change someone's mind. Ain’t worth it.

I have never trolled a single post, ever. I stay here and make my feelings known here--right or wrong. Yes, I have often posted stupid and inflammatory remarks due to the before mentioned anonymity--but I stay here.
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Kind of how I feel. I've never been to another fan board (and I've probably done it only once or twice to either get an answer to a question or leave a polite congratulations) to talk smack and I've always found it interesting, especially among Badger fans, that some find it so necessary to come here and "correct" our thinking.

GV, Wilson's a good player. Anyone who thought otherwise was simply pissed at the prospect of him being a Badger. But somehow, you can't grasp that fact and simply let it go. No, you have to come here and lecture those folks. Hope you feel just grand about your moral superiority.

As for the Bielema quote, it shows my issue with this transfer rule. I'm all for student/athletes graduating on time, but if this rule is not tightened up, we are going to witness a whole new recruiting pool. Adding further complication, what does one need to get into grad school? I have my MA, but I'm so old, I didn't even need a GRE at the program I attended at the U. Is there a standard admissions policy for graduate school acceptance at football powerhouses as there is for in-coming freshman?

I have no objection to Wilson or anyone else using the rule. I just think the rule is going to cause a ton of problems (with the rich getting richer in the process).
 

I hope Brett keeps running his mouth. "There are ten guys contacting us wanting to come here." Well, how many are you willing to take? It almost comes across as though he now feels like WI is the Yankees and transfer time is free agency, and they're willing to take whoever he thinks will better their team. If it's a big-time player, and they have a good player already in that position, are they going to say "no" to the big-timer? I don't know, but I doubt it.

That's fine for Brett and staff, but what about the kids who've invested blood, sweat and tears for WI from day one and are potentially losing playing time? I think that's something h.s. kids should now consider when looking at WI.

If I'm recruiting against them, I tactfully use it against them in every situation I can.
 

BB is such a clown. He's running as fast as he can ahead of himself and his program, he's going to find eventually he cannot fill needs with mercenary types then look back and see where he's spit in the face of his developing players, what a joke.

If Chryst or BA leave/retire he's SOL, wisky's formula for winning is solid, but it cannot sustain itself forever if one year transfers become common, eventually he's going to see all those walk ons and developmental prospects that have lead to the success of wisky the past few years go elsewhere.
can't wait to see the ducks run up 70 against wisky's very overrated D.
 



Ole said:
If Chryst or BA leave/retire he's SOL,
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The line keeps moving. For a while, it was "when Alvarez's recruits are gone, they will suck!" Then it was, "Bielema won't win Big Ten titles." Not we are sure he'll fall apart when Alvarez retires or Chryst leaves?

Here are a few things:

- Bret Bielema is a very good coach. If you looked at his record, few guys in Big Ten history have started out as well as Bret has. He recruits well, he hires a great staff, his players love him.
- Bielema's teams circle Minnesota as a win each season. That simply isn't fun for Minnesota fans. I don't blame you!

Those two things lead to irrational discussion on his talents, and ridiculous predictions on his future from the Gopher fanbase. You guys don't like him because he owns Minnesota, and lets you know about it while doing it. That's fine. I'd feel that way too. But just stop with the moral high ground stuff or the attempts to get him blamed for the Kennedy assassination.
 

So if you know why some feel the way they feel, why do you feel it necessary to come in and lecture on the topic?
 

I heard that wisky is developing a sub-committee to create new graduate programs that don't exist at any other school in the nation just to further their mercenary recruiting.
 

Unregistered User said:
I heard that wisky is developing a sub-committee to create new graduate programs that don't exist at any other school in the nation just to further their mercenary recruiting.
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I realize that's likely a satirical jab at our friends to the east, but I honestly believe that the creation of narrow grad programs to facilitate the transfer of grads from other schools is likely. My complaint is not about Wilson. It's about what may happen throughout the country given the success of Wilson's move.

As I've said from my first post on, I don't like this rule.
 



Personally, by now, I think Bielema has proven himself to be a good coach, a good recruiter, and a good evaluator of coaching talent. But that doesn't make me like him, or even necessarily respect him. And I know a number of WI fans (it is part of my territory for work) who can't stand him, but they can't really argue with his success to date.

That said, for Bielema's own sake, he better keep winning, because if things should in fact start to go the other way for WI and they have a losing season or two in row, just my opinion, but I think the tide will turn on him in a hurry.

If you're a d*^%, you can get by as long as you win. If you're a d*^% and you lose, that leash gets pretty short, pretty quick.
 

Badger_inohiovalley said:
The line keeps moving. For a while, it was "when Alvarez's recruits are gone, they will suck!" Then it was, "Bielema won't win Big Ten titles." Not we are sure he'll fall apart when Alvarez retires or Chryst leaves?

Here are a few things:

- Bret Bielema is a very good coach. If you looked at his record, few guys in Big Ten history have started out as well as Bret has. He recruits well, he hires a great staff, his players love him.
- Bielema's teams circle Minnesota as a win each season. That simply isn't fun for Minnesota fans. I don't blame you!

Those two things lead to irrational discussion on his talents, and ridiculous predictions on his future from the Gopher fanbase. You guys don't like him because he owns Minnesota, and lets you know about it while doing it. That's fine. I'd feel that way too. But just stop with the moral high ground stuff or the attempts to get him blamed for the Kennedy assassination.
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Ok blatantly obvious troll, i'll play.
Your program is on a nice run, set on that course by alverez. So far BB has not strayed from the formula BA set up. But pre 1991 your program was absolute crap, ABSOLUTE CRAP, and was for a very long time.

There's not one reason it can't fall back to that point should the winning formula be scrapped for bigger and better things. Nothing in this program is any different than what BA set up, nothing except BB's arrogance.
Chryst leaves, BA retires, nothing will be in place to offset that arrogance and we all know how BB acts when the wins don't come(08') It could be an epic meltdown of hilarious proportion.
Not possible? Ok keep living in the clouds, except mid tier programs like wisky rise and fall all the time, it only takes a few bad decisions and its cellar dweller time.
We know, we're hoping to rise a bit now after some very bad decisions by our school.
 

GopherHomer said:
I'll go on record as someone who thought Wilson would be very good...which he was. I also said that if the Badgers don't win the national title, it was a waste...which it was.
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Really! and do you actually think before you hit the post icon?

So is was a waste for UW to win the Leaders Division? It was a waste to be ranked the entire year? It was a waste to be in the dicussion for a Nat Championship game for the first six weeks of the season? It was a waste to go to Indy and win the first annual B1G Championship Playoff game? The Rose Bowl is a waste?

This is a classic example of a fan who hates another team setting up unrealistic expectations and then saying I told you so? Clearly, the season was anything but a waste for the Badgers. Driving back from Indy I stopped for gas in Illinois and a man with Bears gear on from head to toe came up to me and was just gushing about the game the Badgers played to beat MSU. This program has a total buzz around it right now. Total nonsense post.

Some other points:

I agree the Badgers should not expect the results they got from Wilson with any other transfer. He was a once in a program type guy.

Wilson did not have six years, he graduated from NCS in three years. Gray could have 10 years and not play as well as Wilson did this year. I consider myself fortunate as a fan to have seen Wilson in a Badger uniform for a year.

So Gophers fans who don't like the transfer rule and a guy beating out someone with time in the program are not going to embrace Kill's combing the Jr. college ranks?

Good discussion about the merits and downside of the transfer rule.
 

Ole said:
There's not one reason it can't fall back to that point should the winning formula be scrapped for bigger and better things. Nothing in this program is any different than what BA set up, nothing except BB's arrogance.
Chryst leaves, BA retires, nothing will be in place to offset that arrogance and we all know how BB acts when the wins don't come(08') It could be an epic meltdown of hilarious proportion.
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Ridiculous fan talk. You seriously think Alvarez and Chryst are somehow holding together Bret Bielema from his arrogance destroying the UW program? I don't even know what to say, that is so stupid.

And that "nice little run" is long enough to account for 100% of the lives of every kid the UW is recruiting now. "Nice little run" ran out in about 1997. This program is a perennial top 20 team.
 

Because of AP courses in high school more and more students can and do graduate in 3-3.5 years. My Daughter graduates with two minors next week from UCSD in 3.3 years and my Son started at the U this year with 28 units. This is becoming a bigger issue that needs to be looked at. As a Badger alum, I feel this will be a negative for recruiting. Joe Brennan and the hotshot from Concorde De La Salle are expecting a fair shot at QB. Maybe BB will find a graduate program for Mcnabb, Brent Favre or Joe Kapp! Enough of this crap. Promote from within. BB already drives the short bus and is confused as to what the term "helmet school" really means.
 

Badger_inohiovalley said:
Ridiculous fan talk. You seriously think Alvarez and Chryst are somehow holding together Bret Bielema from his arrogance destroying the UW program? I don't even know what to say, that is so stupid.

And that "nice little run" is long enough to account for 100% of the lives of every kid the UW is recruiting now. "Nice little run" ran out in about 1997. This program is a perennial top 20 team.
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Once again. BB is the perfect head coach for your fanbase. Arrogant and oblivious to history. But college football before 1993 didn't exist.
Yep could never ever happen. You're right.
Middle tier programs like wisconsin have always had good runs, even 10-20 year runs of success.
Washington St. (one of many examples) was in 2 rose bowls within 6 years, made a bad hire, and were the worst team in the BCS the past few years.
Even Michigan and Nebraska changed their formulas for bigger and better things and fell to all time lows. You think wisconsin could recover from a bad downswing like that?
Whatever, enjoy yourself. You embrace BB all you want.
Yep it could never happen. Top 20 program. HA!
 

Ole said:
Once again. BB is the perfect head coach for your fanbase. Arrogant and oblivious to history. But college football before 1993 didn't exist.
Yep could never ever happen. You're right.
Middle tier programs like wisconsin have always had good runs, even 10-20 year runs of success.
Washington St. (one of many examples) was in 2 rose bowls within 6 years, made a bad hire, and were the worst team in the BCS the past few years.
Even Michigan and Nebraska changed their formulas for bigger and better things and fell to all time lows. You think wisconsin could recover from a bad downswing like that?
Whatever, enjoy yourself. You embrace BB all you want.
Yep it could never happen. Top 20 program. HA!
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Not to flame, but are you saying that Wisconsin is not a Top 20 football program? I find that very interesting. Can you name 20 programs better than Wisconsin?

For sure better (11): Alabama, Florida, LSU, Georgia, Florida State, Michigan, Ohio State, USC, Oregon, Oklahoma, Texas

Probably better (5): Tennessee, Nebraska, Penn State, Auburn, Miami

Same Level: Virginia Tech, maybe some others... Notre Dame perhaps? Cal, Washington?


Who am I missing? So far I count 16 programs that I would put ahead of Wisconsin, and some of those haven't had our success since 1993, but their tradition is better, so I put them ahead.
 

BleedGopher said:
It looks like Crist may be on the way out of South Bend, having graduated already he'll be ready to play immediately, ala Russell Wilson.

I'm sure he'll be looking for a top-tier BCS school with a QB void that would allow him to come in and start immediately and play for a top program. Does anyone know a program that fits this scenario?

http://espn.go.com/blog/ncfnation/tag/_/name/staying-or-going-2011

Go Gophers!!
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I think we should re-name the Badger-Hole!!! Amazing how so many people have a crush on the rodents to the east!! I really feel sorry for those people who say they are gopher fans but really love the red rodents.

I mean weasels sorry!!!
 

popeyoung5 said:
Because of AP courses in high school more and more students can and do graduate in 3-3.5 years. My Daughter graduates with two minors next week from UCSD in 3.3 years and my Son started at the U this year with 28 units. This is becoming a bigger issue that needs to be looked at. As a Badger alum, I feel this will be a negative for recruiting. Joe Brennan and the hotshot from Concorde De La Salle are expecting a fair shot at QB. Maybe BB will find a graduate program for Mcnabb, Brent Favre or Joe Kapp! Enough of this crap. Promote from within. BB already drives the short bus and is confused as to what the term "helmet school" really means.
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Angle on AP and early freshman enrollment is one I had thought of popeyeyoung5. Excellent point.
 

I'll play Ole. In the lives of 18 year old kids choosing to play college football, name me 20 programs better than Wisconsin. Hint: It's a waste of time.

As for your list, 2010, I'd place the UW right in with Tennessee, Nebraska, PSU, Auburn and Miami and I'd add Oregon in that pool. If we are using wins and losses on the field and in bowl games. Since PSU joined the Big Ten, Wisconsin is right there with them. In other words, Wisconsin has every bit the claim to somewhere between #11 and #20 that anyone else has.....of course, that is if we are framing it to the lives of 18 year old kids looking at college football destinations. If we are asking our great grandparents, they have much reverence for Minnesota's program.
 

Badger_inohiovalley said:
I'll play Ole. In the lives of 18 year old kids choosing to play college football, name me 20 programs better than Wisconsin. Hint: It's a waste of time.

As for your list, 2010, I'd place the UW right in with Tennessee, Nebraska, PSU, Auburn and Miami and I'd add Oregon in that pool. If we are using wins and losses on the field and in bowl games. Since PSU joined the Big Ten, Wisconsin is right there with them. In other words, Wisconsin has every bit the claim to somewhere between #11 and #20 that anyone else has.....of course, that is if we are framing it to the lives of 18 year old kids looking at college football destinations. If we are asking our great grandparents, they have much reverence for Minnesota's program.
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Hint: If you honestly believe that, and that's how you think, then I can't convince you using logic or fact.
You are the perfect example of a typical badger fan. No idea where your true place in college football is, and you'll fight tooth and nail to pretend it's among the programs you just listed. Pre Alverez doesn't count, and it's only possible to ascend higher into the future even though history(which you ignore) tells us it's much more likely the program descends at some point soon when the architect of your success loses his power.
Hayden Fry had it happen, Bill Snyder had it happen, Hell even Paterno had it happen(before the scandal)
Bye bye now, you can' be reasoned with so I'll leave you with your head up Bileima's ass.
 

What exactly is the difference between bringing in a Wilson/Crist and bringing in a JUCO who can also play right away? The Gophers under Brewster played a ton of JUCO guys.
 

badgergopher said:
What exactly is the difference between bringing in a Wilson/Crist and bringing in a JUCO who can also play right away? The Gophers under Brewster played a ton of JUCO guys.
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You're not really serious, are you?
 

Ole said:
Hint: If you honestly believe that, and that's how you think, then I can't convince you using logic or fact.
You are the perfect example of a typical badger fan. No idea where your true place in college football is, and you'll fight tooth and nail to pretend it's among the programs you just listed. Pre Alverez doesn't count, and it's only possible to ascend higher into the future even though history(which you ignore) tells us it's much more likely the program descends at some point soon when the architect of your success loses his power.
Hayden Fry had it happen, Bill Snyder had it happen, Hell even Paterno had it happen(before the scandal)
Bye bye now, you can' be reasoned with so I'll leave you with your head up Bileima's ass.
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I framed the discussion.....in the lives of 18 year old recruits, using results on the field, who is better than Wisconsin? You won't find 20 teams. Perennial top 20 team is true. That means, year in and year out, Wisconsin is in the top 20. If you want to discuss historically better programs, we can do that too. I know exactly where Wisconsin stands. I framed the discussion like I did and I've backed it up.....results on the field in the lives of 18 year old kids who hear ESPN talk about Wisconsin, as a perennial top 20 program when they turn on the TV sets.

I will gladly conceed the 40s through 60s to Minnesota. If we are looking at the 100 years of Wisconsin football, Wisconsin is probably somewhere in the 30s or at best high 20s. I started going to UW games in the McClain era....I've been a fan long before the success we are enjoying was realized.

As to the original point I called out....never have I seen something as dumb as claiming that Chryst and Alvarez were somehow propping up this dolt of a coach keeping his arrogance from destroying the program. That is something I couldn't have even seen invented here in the Gopherhole. Badger envy runs really deep.
 

Ole said:
Hint: If you honestly believe that, and that's how you think, then I can't convince you using logic or fact.
You are the perfect example of a typical badger fan. No idea where your true place in college football is, and you'll fight tooth and nail to pretend it's among the programs you just listed. Pre Alverez doesn't count, and it's only possible to ascend higher into the future even though history(which you ignore) tells us it's much more likely the program descends at some point soon when the architect of your success loses his power.
Hayden Fry had it happen, Bill Snyder had it happen, Hell even Paterno had it happen(before the scandal)
Bye bye now, you can' be reasoned with so I'll leave you with your head up Bileima's ass.
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Ole... would you rather live in the current?, within the past 20 years?, or ....40+ years ago? Wisconsin's been a top 20 team for most of the lives of current high school recruits.
 

badgergopher said:
What exactly is the difference between bringing in a Wilson/Crist and bringing in a JUCO who can also play right away? The Gophers under Brewster played a ton of JUCO guys.
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Because the JUCOs are entering into the system under well-defined guidelines that require them to take a full course load and meet certain academic requirements.

Again, you Badger guys seem to think the complaint is about Wilson. I can't speak for others, but I think the NCAA is going to have tighten this up by requiring a GRE score (and perhaps a certain level of GRE score) and a certain level of GPA. Who is to say (and again, I am not saying that Wisconsin has done anything wrong) that schools won't simply create bogus grad school programs to pick up football players? It's just the opposite end of the old General College loophole.
 

Badger_inohiovalley said:
I
As to the original point I called out....never have I seen something as dumb as claiming that Chryst and Alvarez were somehow propping up this dolt of a coach keeping his arrogance from destroying the program. That is something I couldn't have even seen invented here in the Gopherhole. Badger envy runs really deep.
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"In the minds of 18-year olds...." Great argument. So you're arguing that the Badgers are an incredibly relevant program to people who have been watching football for all of 4-5 years. If it makes you feel better, run with it.

Badger envy.... that's rich. BB vs Kill? To me, it's not even close. I would rather have Kill representing my football program than BB any day of the week. BB is a juvenile delinquent, even avid Badger fans are willing to concede that point.

I've never argued that Alvarez is keeping BB afloat. Sure, he handed BB something that would have been difficult for him to screw up. No doubt about that. But it's hard to say how much Barry is influencing things these days.

Let's face it; Badger football in it's recent run has been about the Offensive Line and the offense/running game in general. Period. The defense has never been exceptional (even with BB being a defensive coach). Chryst and Bostad ARE the success of the program.

It'll be interesting to see if Chryst gets a head gig in the next few weeks. If Chryst and Bostad move on this offseason and the Badgers are still one of the main contenders in the BT in 2013, I'd be willing to concede that perhaps BB isn't a complete buffoon.
 

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