Will Notre Dame QB Dayne Crist end up at UW

[BleedGopher]

It looks like Crist may be on the way out of South Bend, having graduated already he'll be ready to play immediately, ala Russell Wilson.

I'm sure he'll be looking for a top-tier BCS school with a QB void that would allow him to come in and start immediately and play for a top program. Does anyone know a program that fits this scenario?

http://espn.go.com/blog/ncfnation/tag/_/name/staying-or-going-2011

Go Gophers!!

 

[GoAUpher]

I suppose he could. Depends on how much they want to keep mortgaging their future (unless they have no confidence in any of the current guys and are waiting for Bart Houston to show up for his RS season).

 

[MadtownGopher]

I wonder if this would begin to hurt their QB recruiting. Seems like they are less interested in developing QB talent than they are with getting quick fixes with 1 and done transfers.

 

[50PoundHead]

I really think this rule kind of sucks and I'd say that if we were picking up a great player in the same way. I have nothing against the kids. Wilson is an exemplary kid and Crist probably is as well, but I just find something unseemly about it.

 

[goldengophers]

I really think this rule kind of sucks and I'd say that if we were picking up a great player in the same way. I have nothing against the kids. Wilson is an exemplary kid and Crist probably is as well, but I just find something unseemly about it.

I'd do it if I were Wisconsin, it's within the rules and they don't have a guy ready for the big time next year.

 

[GoAUpher]

I really think this rule kind of sucks and I'd say that if we were picking up a great player in the same way. I have nothing against the kids. Wilson is an exemplary kid and Crist probably is as well, but I just find something unseemly about it.

Why does the rule suck? It's one of the few rules that actually benefits the players and it does so while rewarding them for graduating early.

 

[50PoundHead]

All I'm saying is I don't like the rule. People can do it if they want.

 

[GoAUpher]

Seems like they are less interested in developing QB talent than they are with getting quick fixes with 1 and done transfers.

I think that comment only applies if they give it another shot. This season was a no brainer for them and has nothing to do with developing QB's (other than the fact that it shoes they weren't sold on the QB's they already had).

 

[50PoundHead]

Which kid does it help? It certainly doesn't help the kid who has patiently waited his turn as part of the team and done everything the coach has asked only to be leap-frogged by a kid transferring in with no requirement that he sit a year.

 

[GoAUpher]

Which kid does it help? It certainly doesn't help the kid who has patiently waited his turn as part of the team and done everything the coach has asked only to be leap-frogged by a kid transferring in with no requirement that he sit a year.

Let's see...who could it help? Certainly not the kid who graduated early and put the student in student athlete. No no.

So your objection is that a player currently on a roster getting jumped without a one year waiting period is somehow worse then a player being leapfrogged over AFTER a one year waiting period? It's the same thing! The one year waiting period doesn't change the crappiness of getting having someone who transferred beat you out for a starting spot.

 

[wait!what?]

Graduation should be the end of the line for participation in NCAA athletics.

 

[Golden Elephant]

Which kid does it help? It certainly doesn't help the kid who has patiently waited his turn as part of the team and done everything the coach has asked only to be leap-frogged by a kid transferring in with no requirement that he sit a year.

I agree with 50 - the rule is dumb. This is football we're talking about - letting the kids switch schools is silly. They should change the rule.

 

[50PoundHead]

This has nothing to do with student-athletes and for you to somehow contend it does is a really specious argument. These are guys shopping for a place to play after they were beaten out at the school at which they started. Yeah, the fact that they've graduated puts a wrinkle in it, but I still think it erodes the notion of a football program being comprised of a team and not a set of individuals.

What would be Crist's connection to Northwestern other than to take a seminar and play football. Crist is probably a great kid. Wilson is probably a great kid. But the only reason Wilson was on the Madison campus was to play football. Let's not kid ourselves.

 

[tjgopher]

Graduation should be the end of the line for participation in NCAA athletics.

Really? So, assuming a kid redshirts, then graduates in the usual four years, you think he shouldn't be allowed to take graduate classes and take part in his redshirt senior season?

For example, Trevor Mbakwe graduates in December. He wouldn't be allowed to play any Big Ten games this year (if he had stayed healthy) under the way you'd like to see it governed?

In essence, you'd be inviting kids to 'put off' graduation so they could still play. Doesn't that sort of defeat the purpose of going to college? Heck, a guy like Damian Johnson got to take a year of grad school here, as did Travis Busch at Colorado State, etc. That HELPS the student athlete.

 

[wait!what?]

Sorry, I should have said that I am against redshirts- medical and otherwise. Fr-So-Jr-Sr -cya.

 

[dpodoll68]

Sorry, I should have said that I am against redshirts- medical and otherwise. Fr-So-Jr-Sr -cya.

If a guy gets hurt, tough sh*t? See you later? Sorry for not making a reasonable accommodation to extend your young and carefree days a little bit longer!

 

[50PoundHead]

I don't mind transferring, but this is a different animal than transferring. A transfer has to sit out a year in he remains at the same classification and there are also limits on transferring within a conference, as we witnessed with Kim Royston.

This is simply college free agency for an isolated set of athletes who want to play another year. Doesn't mean they are bad guys or that it's a bad rule. I just don't like the rule because I think it runs counter to what the system should be about.

 

[GoAUpher]

This has nothing to do with student-athletes and for you to somehow contend it does is a really specious argument. These are guys shopping for a place to play after they were beaten out at the school at which they started. Yeah, the fact that they've graduated puts a wrinkle in it, but I still think it erodes the notion of a football program being comprised of a team and not a set of individuals.

What would be Crist's connection to Northwestern other than to take a seminar and play football. Crist is probably a great kid. Wilson is probably a great kid. But the only reason Wilson was on the Madison campus was to play football. Let's not kid ourselves.

I can already think of 2 examples where the bolded is not true. Wilson was not beaten out. He was told he had to give up baseball to play football and he chose not to. And Greg Paulus was also not beaten out by anyone. He decided he wanted to play FB and had eligibility left to do so. Even if they are beaten out, what does it matter? It's not like they don't have to earn the starting spot on the new team. You claim that this rule somehow undermines the concept of a team. Yet Russell Wilson was voted by his team to be a captain. It'd be nice if you could point to some examples (shouldn't be hard, this is a new-ish rule that doesn't get used much) where the erosion of the team concept was put into place. You don't have to change your opinion (it is your opinion to hold). But thus far you're making some broad generalizations without backing them up.

I never claimed this was about a kid furthering his education. I simply pointed out that someone who graduates early held up their end of that "student athlete" ideal. I'd agree that these players transfer under the rule in order to play football. The is expressly true in Wilson's case. But again, so what?

 

[GoAUpher]

I just don't like the rule because I think it runs counter to what the system should be about.

Fair enough. I don't totally get it, but you've expanded what you've said enough for me to get that this isn't you thinking it's a "bad" rule which is what I was railing against.

 

[GopherinPhilly]

The kids are student athletes not athlete students. The rule is designed so that a student can continue his/her education into their chosen post-graduate field and continue to play in their sport if they both graduate with eligibility remaining and the school they graduated from does not offer the chosen graduate program. This a great rule and should be kept as is because it rewards students that excel and that want to advance beyond the bachelors degree!

 

[wait!what?]

Doll, injuries happen. you graduate from school you are done

 

[50PoundHead]

Well, Paulus never played football, so he couldn't have been beaten out. Wilson was, in effect, demoted because he didn't give up baseball. His choice. Both guys got free educations and both they and the school held up their ends of the bargain.

What I object to is that this really runs counter to the notion, in my view, of what the game should be about and that's the team and the program as a whole and this provides coaches with short cuts around that. It's my prediction that we are going to see a lot more of this happening in the next few years, especially after Wilson's success.

As per Wilson's being captain, do you honestly think the Badgers would have voted him captain if he hadn't been perceived as the missing piece to a championship run? He may be the greatest kid in the world, but Bielema would have never recruited him to be the back-up quarterback and the team wouldn't have embraced him so mightily if that was the role he would have assumed.

 

[dpodoll68]

Doll, injuries happen. you graduate from school you are done

Inner monologue of a player:

"I don't want to try hard because I only get 4 to play 4 and if I try hard, I might get hurt and then I lose a year of playing the sport that I love (you know, being a kid). If I don't try hard and just coast, I'm far less likely to get hurt (it's tough to get hurt when you're standing on the sidelines!) and then I'll still get to be part of the team for 4 years! This is a great solution!"

 

[GoAUpher]

Well, Paulus never played football, so he couldn't have been beaten out. Wilson was, in effect, demoted because he didn't give up baseball. His choice. Both guys got free educations and both they and the school held up their ends of the bargain.

What I object to is that this really runs counter to the notion, in my view, of what the game should be about and that's the team and the program as a whole and this provides coaches with short cuts around that. It's my prediction that we are going to see a lot more of this happening in the next few years, especially after Wilson's success.

As per Wilson's being captain, do you honestly think the Badgers would have voted him captain if he hadn't been perceived as the missing piece to a championship run? He may be the greatest kid in the world, but Bielema would have never recruited him to be the back-up quarterback and the team wouldn't have embraced him so mightily if that was the role he would have assumed.

To go all dpdoll on you, so you're saying I'm right about Paulus?

There was no need for the Badgers to vote him anything. He could have been accepted as part of the team, even the critical piece, without being named captain.

What exactly do you want the game to be about? I don't mean this snarkily. I don't feel like I understand what you are looking to as the ideal yet. I understand there is some sense of fairness at play. In the end, I suspect that you and I may have similar "ideal worlds" in mind.

My reason for supporting this rule is that almost everything in the rulebook is stacked against the player when it relates to their sholarships. Sign an LOI and your coach leaves for a new job? They don't have to release you. Sign an LOI and it turns out your last coach was a cheat? They don't have to release you. Sign an LOI, get moved into your dorm, and you can be told you have to grayshirt and pay your own way because the coaches oversigned. Sign an LOI, work your ass off in school and on the field, and they can still pull your scholly before your senior year to make way for a stud freshman since it's not guaranteed. There are a lot of things wrong with the rules that would seemingly run counter to your ideas of fairness and offer coaches all sorts of other shortcuts that are much worse than this rule. At least in this case the player is the one with some flexibility that they earned by getting their degree. That's why I defend it.

 

[Golden Elephant]

There's a balancing act between the student & the athlete in student-athlete. The NCAA and schools involved try to preserve the appearance in the big money sports that really these are just students who happen to play a sport. We all know that for a lot of kids, that's true. But for a lot of other kids, it's not - the kid is at the school to play a sport. The case of a player transferring to play a year at another school, could happen to a true student, but in the cited Wilson & Paulus cases the person is transferring purely for sports reasons. You shouldn't facilitate this kind of nonsense by allowing them to transfer without sitting out.

If the reason they're transferring is that they want to get a Master's at another school, then sitting out a year should be no big deal to them. But if they're transferring just for football, then it would be. Either we, the NCAA shouldn't allow it.

 

[GoAUpher]

The case of a player transferring to play a year at another school, could happen to a true student, but in the cited Wilson & Paulus cases the person is transferring purely for sports reasons. You shouldn't facilitate this kind of nonsense by allowing them to transfer without sitting out.

I do understand this argument. I don't agree, but I think it's very valid. I just think the fact that a kid earned his degree makes the latitude given acceptable. If they took it away I wouldn't be all "NCAA sucks" about it.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

I don't know how I feel about the rule. I do like it that you can only do it if you have graduated college. It's only the kids that have done everything right that are eligible for the rule, so all in all, I think i'm ok with it. There does seem to be a sort of cheap feeling to it as I really don't think any of these kids really used the rule to further their educations. There could be some examples of kids who really did transfer for the Master's program, but I don't think that's the case. It seems like their choice of school is always football related. So the whole idea of it furthering their education seems like a charade.

That said, it still only benefits the guys who have done everything right their first few years. So I don't know. For me, I don't think it has anything to do with education, and I look at it like a "bonus" for kids who have done the right thing. So yeah...i'm torn.

As far as Crist.....
I kind of think he ends up in Florida. They have those young QBs who aren't exactly ideal for Weiss' offense. Weiss recruited Crist to Notre Dame, seems the most logical to me.
He could go to Wisconsin, I don't think he is as ideal of a fit as Wilson. I think Wisconsin will start looking within their program.
Maybe...Stanford?

 

[Unregistered User]

Personally I don't like the rule, it makes kids out to be mercenaries.

It will be interesting to see in the future how many of these "student" athletes who avail themselves of this curious rule complete their graduate studies. I believe it will be a de minimis amount.

 

[50PoundHead]

To go all dpdoll on you, so you're saying I'm right about Paulus?

There was no need for the Badgers to vote him anything. He could have been accepted as part of the team, even the critical piece, without being named captain.

What exactly do you want the game to be about? I don't mean this snarkily. I don't feel like I understand what you are looking to as the ideal yet. I understand there is some sense of fairness at play. In the end, I suspect that you and I may have similar "ideal worlds" in mind.

My reason for supporting this rule is that almost everything in the rulebook is stacked against the player when it relates to their sholarships. Sign an LOI and your coach leaves for a new job? They don't have to release you. Sign an LOI and it turns out your last coach was a cheat? They don't have to release you. Sign an LOI, get moved into your dorm, and you can be told you have to grayshirt and pay your own way because the coaches oversigned. Sign an LOI, work your ass off in school and on the field, and they can still pull your scholly before your senior year to make way for a stud freshman since it's not guaranteed. There are a lot of things wrong with the rules that would seemingly run counter to your ideas of fairness and offer coaches all sorts of other shortcuts that are much worse than this rule. At least in this case the player is the one with some flexibility that they earned by getting their degree. That's why I defend it.

You make very good points about how coaches are often not true to the students they recruit and the schools that have hired them. I find that unfortunate as well and I agree with you that it creates a double-standard by which players are penalized.

My ideal world (and it is very narrow and largely not realizable) would have students recruited, signing LOIs, staying at colleges for five years (or four if they graduate on time and have completed their eligibility in the process), and graduating. I don't like over-signing and I don't like the way programs renege on their promises to athletes. I think the whole LOI system needs to be looked at and more options given to athletes in those instances where a promise has been broken (which really is contradictory to some statements I have made and I realize that).

I am not a "slave to system," but I think that the current disorder in college athletics doesn't serve anyone (except the coaches and the moneychangers) very well. I've probably been vague here, as what I seek is not readily describable. It's more like "I'll know it when I see it." My complaints are usually about "things that look out of place."

I want to make it clear I have nothing against Crist, Wilson, or Paulus. It just seems a rule like this only provides an opportunity for rich programs to get richer and I don't know if that's the goal of college football. Seems that those programs already have enough advantages in place.

Here's a question and it's not aimed at anything other than getting an answer. Does anyone know what grad programs these guys are enrolled in? I got my MA at the U and application/acceptance hoop-a-thon was not what I would describe as an expedited process. I'm not accusing these guys of anything, but aren't we past the grad school application deadlines at most big schools? One of the things that concerns me (and again I'm not saying that happened with Wilson or will happen with Crist), is what of the otherwise qualified grad student who may get bumped because Crist can play football? I don't know the regulations involved with these particular cases and I can't say that I would ever trust the NCAA to do things right, but it something that bears monitoring.

 

[GoAUpher]

Thanks 50...good stuff.

My ideal world (and it is very narrow and largely not realizable) would have students recruited, signing LOIs, staying at colleges for five years (or four if they graduate on time and have completed their eligibility in the process), and graduating. I don't like over-signing and I don't like the way programs renege on their promises to athletes. I think the whole LOI system needs to be looked at and more options given to athletes in those instances where a promise has been broken (which really is contradictory to some statements I have made and I realize that).

Sounds very similar to my ideal world too.

I am not a "slave to system," but I think that the current disorder in college athletics doesn't serve anyone (except the coaches and the moneychangers) very well.

Totally agree with you.

I've probably been vague here, as what I seek is not readily describable. It's more like "I'll know it when I see it." My complaints are usually about "things that look out of place."

Makes sense.

I want to make it clear I have nothing against Crist, Wilson, or Paulus. It just seems a rule like this only provides an opportunity for rich programs to get richer and I don't know if that's the goal of college football. Seems that those programs already have enough advantages in place.

I don't know if I'd agree on the rich get richer thing totally (Syracuse and Ole Miss, 2 recent beneficieries of this rule, hardly qualify as the rich) but I do agree that it could be used by schools to fill in their one missing piece (a la Wisconsin this year) which would be more likely to benefit a "have" program.

Here's a question and it's not aimed at anything other than getting an answer. Does anyone know what grad programs these guys are enrolled in?

Not sure. One quirk of the rule is that it the program can't be offered at the school you are transfering from. So in some cases it might be an odd one. This is also why the idea of this rule being used for the education element is probably bunk more often than not.

One of the things that concerns me (and again I'm not saying that happened with Wilson or will happen with Crist), is what of the otherwise qualified grad student who may get bumped because Crist can play football?

As I recall (not from experience, I took my BA and went into software) one of the usual concerns with admitting a grad student is the funding to get them their TA position or to pay them for their research time and the like. I'd assume this isn't a concern if the player is on an athletic scholarship.