Wichita State’s Gregg Marshall punched a player, choked Gophers assistant coach Kyle Lindsted

Donate To GopherHole
GopherLady

GopherLady

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 5, 2008
Messages
9,322
Reaction score
893
Points
113

Wow these are some serious allegations. From the link:


Among the allegations Stadium uncovered:

  • Marshall punched Morris in the head during a practice in October of 2015. “I love my teammates, the city and Wichita State,” said Morris, who played at Wichita State from 2014-18. “But if I could go back to that day when he punched me, I would have left.”
  • Marshall choked Lindsted, then a Shockers assistant coach, at a practice during the 2016-17 season, sources said. Lindsted, now an assistant at Minnesota, declined comment.
  • Marshall taunted junior forward Isaiah Poor Bear-Chandler, who is of Native American descent, “to get back on his horse” and made “Indian howling noises” while in practice during the 2018-19 season.
  • Marshall body-shamed a former player by lifting his shirt up during a practice in the 2015-16 season, grabbing the player’s stomach and then mocking the player’s girth.
Sad to see our guy Lindsted as an alleged victim.

Go Gophers!!
 

Other allegations made by the current and former Wichita State players and coaches include:

  • Marshall told senior center Jamie Echenique, who is from Colombia, that he would be “a great coffee bean picker” because Echenique struggled at times catching the ball.
  • When freshman forward Josaphat Bilau collapsed after running sprints during a workout in the preseason of 2019 and needed assistance from the training staff, Marshall mocked Bilau by falling down on the court. Marshall then also stumbled around as if he was disoriented. “He tries to intimidate and bully people,” said a former assistant. “It’s mostly just horrible verbal abuse.”
  • During a practice in 2018, Marshall demanded that junior forward Morris Udeze say he himself was “stupid” after Marshall said Udeze ran a play incorrectly. “Morris wouldn’t say it,” a player said. “So we had to run.” Udeze previously had put his name in the transfer portal but ultimately decided to stay at Wichita State.
  • Erik Stevenson was wide open and didn’t shoot the ball one day in practice this past season. The player closing out on him defensively was black. While in film session, Marshall paused the film. “I think you’re afraid of brothers, guys raised by their grandparents eating PB&J’s.” One black player told Stadium he felt that was a racist remark.
Go Gophers!!
 

It shouldn’t be much of a surprise to anyone. 5 guys or whatever...don’t just transfer without a reason. He has always had a temper based coaching style.
 

BleedGopher said:
Other allegations made by the current and former Wichita State players and coaches include:

  • Marshall told senior center Jamie Echenique, who is from Colombia, that he would be “a great coffee bean picker” because Echenique struggled at times catching the ball.
  • When freshman forward Josaphat Bilau collapsed after running sprints during a workout in the preseason of 2019 and needed assistance from the training staff, Marshall mocked Bilau by falling down on the court. Marshall then also stumbled around as if he was disoriented. “He tries to intimidate and bully people,” said a former assistant. “It’s mostly just horrible verbal abuse.”
  • During a practice in 2018, Marshall demanded that junior forward Morris Udeze say he himself was “stupid” after Marshall said Udeze ran a play incorrectly. “Morris wouldn’t say it,” a player said. “So we had to run.” Udeze previously had put his name in the transfer portal but ultimately decided to stay at Wichita State.
  • Erik Stevenson was wide open and didn’t shoot the ball one day in practice this past season. The player closing out on him defensively was black. While in film session, Marshall paused the film. “I think you’re afraid of brothers, guys raised by their grandparents eating PB&J’s.” One black player told Stadium he felt that was a racist remark.
Go Gophers!!
Click to expand...

Wow, is that disgusting!

I wonder if any of his brethren will call him out for this abhorrent behavior; I can't remember this happening in the past, but maybe this is too egregious and someone will actually will sack up and say something this time.

If the allegations are corroborated/proven true, he should be fired immediately - then he'll end up as a talking head on ESPN - they hired Bruce Pearl after his various debacles - they don't care about integrity.
 


This is a big ol bummer for college hoops if it's all true. Marshall is a terrific coach and what he did getting Wichita to a point where it was consistently excellent made the game better.

And while I agree with an above poster who said he's got a 'temper-based coaching style', I kinda liked it as a contrast to so many of the 'player's coaches' out there.

Obviously there's a smidge of a difference between coaching with an edge or some toughness, and the stuff Marshall's getting accused of. If this stuff is true - or even close enough to true, I don't know how he can keep his job.
 

60's Guy said:
It shouldn’t be much of a surprise to anyone. 5 guys or whatever...don’t just transfer without a reason. He has always had a temper based coaching style.
Click to expand...

He's had mass exodus from his program multiple times over the last several years. This is also a guy who went ape on a referee in a meaningless exhibition in Canada a few years back. Hard to imagine he survives this. With all of his antics on the sidelines, it is not surprising that his "intensity" could slide into abuse.

The success he's had is surprising, though. Proves players will endure a lot of crap for the privilege of being on a winner.

A six month investigation, if it really was that long, should have most of its i's dotted and t's crossed. It's more than a guy or two gossiping.
 

Biggsohnasty said:
This is a big ol bummer for college hoops if it's all true. Marshall is a terrific coach and what he did getting Wichita to a point where it was consistently excellent made the game better.

And while I agree with an above poster who said he's got a 'temper-based coaching style', I kinda liked it as a contrast to so many of the 'player's coaches' out there.

Obviously there's a smidge of a difference between coaching with an edge or some toughness, and the stuff Marshall's getting accused of. If this stuff is true - or even close enough to true, I don't know how he can keep his job.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, it gives toughness a really bad look. I'm all for being tough, but it has to be done without going ape and using intimidation and abuse.
 

This is Gregg Marshall’s tantrum from 4 years ago in Canada:
He has had the backing and financial support of the Koch Brothers, so my guess is he’s thought himself untouchable at Wichita-as already said, hard to see how he’ll survive this.
 



Awful. Hope he gets fired and never lands another DI job.

Obviously the American is a relatively tough league, but the last two years the wins have dried up. Might be a great time to move on and go with a new regime.
 

Gopher_In_NYC said:
Wow, is that disgusting!

I wonder if any of his brethren will call him out for this abhorrent behavior; I can't remember this happening in the past, but maybe this is too egregious and someone will actually will sack up and say something this time.

If the allegations are corroborated/proven true, he should be fired immediately - then he'll end up as a talking head on ESPN - they hired Bruce Pearl after his various debacles - they don't care about integrity.
Click to expand...

I think this would be more comparable to Mike Rice than Bruce Pearl. I don't think ESPN would touch him or any tv outlet for awhile if this allegations are proven to be true. Marshall is a clown and a control freak and it's been known for awhile.
 

Holy Man said:
Unfortunately, it gives toughness a really bad look. I'm all for being tough, but it has to be done without going ape and using intimidation and abuse.
Click to expand...

Exactly, You can be a players coach and still get after your guys hard. Izzo and Huggins and plenty of others have proven it can be done. No place ever for physically or verbally abusing players.
 
Last edited:

manderson1984 said:
Exactly, You can be a players coach and still get after your guys hard. Izzo and Huggins and plenty of others have proven it can be done. No place for every physically or verbally abusing players.
Click to expand...
Agreed 100%. If you use personal insults as part of your coaching style, you should be fired.
 




MplsGopher said:
Agreed 100%. If you use personal insults as part of your coaching style, you should be fired.
Click to expand...

What is considered a personal insult?

"You're F-ing this up!"

"You're A f-up!"

"You guys are playing like sissies!"

"You're a sissy!"

"You need to run the plays I tell you to and do your job if you would like to remain in the starting lineup."

Far too much gray area for me to be onboard with this.

Punching or choking players on the otherhand...
 
Last edited:

LongLiveMilesTarver said:
What is considered a personal insult?

"You're F-ing this up!"

"You're A f-up!"

"You guys are playing like sissies!"

"You're a sissy!"

"You need to run the plays I tell you to and do your job if you would like to remain in the starting lineup."

Far too much gray area for me to be onboard with this.

Punching or choking players on the otherhand...
Click to expand...

Those examples should be relatively easy to decipher and not be gray or hard for a college level coach. If you keep it basketball related then it's not necessarily personal. Saying "you are playing soft" (or use some other choice words) is significantly different than saying "you're soft" (or use some other choice words). In the end it does come down to making positive relationships outside of the court either way. That's where the Izzo's or the Huggins of the world "get away" with some of their antics because their players know they care about it.

It's not that complicated and most likely not abuse if the comments/critiques are:
1. True
2. Comes from a place of caring and growth
3. Stay associated with the actual basketball action that is or isn't being done. (Ex. Don't pull the race card, don't call a guy soft when they are actually doing the best they can, etc...)

Coaches know their jobs are more than X's and O's, they know it's about talent and personal development, cohesion of a team, and of course winning basketball games.
 

Sounds terrible, stunning that a guy like that can make it this far. The "get back on your horse" line though, it seems odd to me that saying that to a Native American is considered racist. It has nothing to do with race, and many cultures have a history of horsemanship.
 

manderson1984 said:
Those examples should be relatively easy to decipher and not be gray or hard for a college level coach. If you keep it basketball related then it's not necessarily personal. Saying "you are playing soft" (or use some other choice words) is significantly different than saying "you're soft" (or use some other choice words). In the end it does come down to making positive relationships outside of the court either way. That's where the Izzo's or the Huggins of the world "get away" with some of their antics because their players know they care about it.

It's not that complicated and most likely not abuse if the comments/critiques are:
1. True
2. Comes from a place of caring and growth
3. Stay associated with the actual basketball action that is or isn't being done. (Ex. Don't pull the race card, don't call a guy soft when they are actually doing the best they can, etc...)

Coaches know their jobs are more than X's and O's, they know it's about talent and personal development, cohesion of a team, and of course winning basketball games.
Click to expand...
Only thing I would add here is-Good coaches; personally, glad to see this being ferreted out of the game. I never bought into the Bob Knight BS, there’s no reason or excuse to treat people the way Marshall has been accused of doing.
 

SKOOKM said:
Sounds terrible, stunning that a guy like that can make it this far. The "get back on your horse" line though, it seems odd to me that saying that to a Native American is considered racist. It has nothing to do with race, and many cultures have a history of horsemanship.
Click to expand...
What?
 

manderson1984 said:
Those examples should be relatively easy to decipher and not be gray or hard for a college level coach. If you keep it basketball related then it's not necessarily personal. Saying "you are playing soft" (or use some other choice words) is significantly different than saying "you're soft" (or use some other choice words). In the end it does come down to making positive relationships outside of the court either way. That's where the Izzo's or the Huggins of the world "get away" with some of their antics because their players know they care about it.

It's not that complicated and most likely not abuse if the comments/critiques are:
1. True
2. Comes from a place of caring and growth
3. Stay associated with the actual basketball action that is or isn't being done. (Ex. Don't pull the race card, don't call a guy soft when they are actually doing the best they can, etc...)

Coaches know their jobs are more than X's and O's, they know it's about talent and personal development, cohesion of a team, and of course winning basketball games.
Click to expand...
We are talking about coaching college guys here. i’m in disagreement with bolder above. I think it happens every day on lots of teams in a drill, after a segment to the group etc etc. My guess PJ and every college coach calls his players out as soft, or lazy, or weak, or not tough etc etc at some point in practice or possibly during half times of games...going as far as to say their performance is embarrassing.
Coaches do need to get their players attention. Sometimes players think they are playing hard but good coaches get them to play harder by getting their attention.

That is a very big difference from racial slurs and physically man handling people.
That’s line Marshall crosses other fiery coaches do not.

Izzo is not asking his guys politically correctly to play harder. It is a relationship built on trust with one another from one on one and group conversations outlining the desires, goals, expectations required to be a Spartan. Izzo reminds them of the culture. He demands excellence without racial slurs. Very different from Marshall using racial slurs as a motivation tactic. Good coaches demand excellence. Players need reminders. You don’t have time in games or even practice to be polite...you gotta get their attention...keep an intense tempo. If they are playing dumb, lazy, soft etc they need to know. It ain’t Little League. They are being paid with a scholarship to win. It’s a privilege, not a right to be a team member. There has to be accountability. All teams have cultures and expectations.

Yes, good coaches mix it up with soft and coaxing versus loudly demanding. Different guys respond to different types of criticism. You expect more of some than others. Good coaches sandwich criticism...”Jimmy, you are so good at rebounding the miss. But we need better effort moving your feet on the drive so he doesn’t blow by you. The ability is there for you to be elite. Row the boat. Here we go now.” But, depending on the urgency of the moment it’s gotta be a harsh demand to get their attention quickly.
I think soft etc comments are much more effective to the whole group. Get them to take ownership and they hold each accountable.
 
Last edited:

manderson1984 said:
Those examples should be relatively easy to decipher and not be gray or hard for a college level coach. If you keep it basketball related then it's not necessarily personal. Saying "you are playing soft" (or use some other choice words) is significantly different than saying "you're soft" (or use some other choice words). In the end it does come down to making positive relationships outside of the court either way. That's where the Izzo's or the Huggins of the world "get away" with some of their antics because their players know they care about it.

It's not that complicated and most likely not abuse if the comments/critiques are:
1. True
2. Comes from a place of caring and growth
3. Stay associated with the actual basketball action that is or isn't being done. (Ex. Don't pull the race card, don't call a guy soft when they are actually doing the best they can, etc...)

Coaches know their jobs are more than X's and O's, they know it's about talent and personal development, cohesion of a team, and of course winning basketball games.
Click to expand...
Great post!
 

Surprised anyone would want to play for him. Cash and cars under the table to put up with an absolute idiot?
 

#2Gopher said:
Surprised anyone would want to play for him. Cash and cars under the table to put up with an absolute idiot?
Click to expand...

The Kansas way. Look it up, cash and cars are approved under the Kansas legislature.
 

60's Guy said:
We are talking about coaching college guys here. i’m in disagreement with bolder above. I think it happens every day on lots of teams in a drill, after a segment to the group etc etc. My guess PJ and every college coach calls his players out as soft, or lazy, or weak, or not tough etc etc at some point in practice or possibly during half times of games...going as far as to say their performance is embarrassing.
Coaches do need to get their players attention. Sometimes players think they are playing hard but good coaches get them to play harder by getting their attention.

That is a very big difference from racial slurs and physically man handling people.
That’s line Marshall crosses other fiery coaches do not.

Izzo is not asking his guys politically correctly to play harder. It is a relationship built on trust with one another from one on one and group conversations outlining the desires, goals, expectations required to be a Spartan. Izzo reminds them of the culture. He demands excellence without racial slurs. Very different from Marshall using racial slurs as a motivation tactic. Good coaches demand excellence. Players need reminders. You don’t have time in games or even practice to be polite...you gotta get their attention...keep an intense tempo. If they are playing dumb, lazy, soft etc they need to know. It ain’t Little League. They are being paid with a scholarship to win. It’s a privilege, not a right to be a team member. There has to be accountability. All teams have cultures and expectations.

Yes, good coaches mix it up with soft and coaxing versus loudly demanding. Different guys respond to different types of criticism. You expect more of some than others. Good coaches sandwich criticism...”Jimmy, you are so good at rebounding the miss. But we need better effort moving your feet on the drive so he doesn’t blow by you. The ability is there for you to be elite. Row the boat. Here we go now.” But, depending on the urgency of the moment it’s gotta be a harsh demand to get their attention quickly.
I think soft etc comments are much more effective to the whole group. Get them to take ownership and they hold each accountable.
Click to expand...

I think you misunderstood my point. I just used the soft as an example phrase/word that is clean for a public forum. I don't disagree with your points that you can and should push kids out of their comfort zone and it wasn't what I was trying to project.

I've sat in multiple college practices and I'm not saying you can't get after guys or use vulgar language. My point is that it needs to not be personal (Espicially now a days) and related to basketball. My examples of Izzo and Huggins are perfect examples. They can mother f a kid on the basketball court because players know it's only basketball and not personal. Greg Marshall is an ahole who cares about himself only and it's been known for a long time.
 

manderson1984 said:
I think you misunderstood my point. I just used the soft as an example phrase/word that is clean for a public forum. I don't disagree with your points that you can and should push kids out of their comfort zone and it wasn't what I was trying to project.

I've sat in multiple college practices and I'm not saying you can't get after guys or use vulgar language. My point is that it needs to not be personal (Espicially now a days) and related to basketball. My examples of Izzo and Huggins are perfect examples. They can mother f a kid on the basketball court because players know it's only basketball and not personal. Greg Marshall is an ahole who cares about himself only and it's been known for a long time.
Click to expand...
If I could expand on this point, I have seen players for Huggins and Izzo regularly talk/argue back to them during games with the controversy popping up from a couple years ago of Izzo really going after a guy during a game.

Without knowing those relationships, I have taken it as a positive-aplayer willing to argue with a coach feels safe with that coach-Idon’t imagine Marshall’s players felt the same security.
 

SKOOKM said:
Sounds terrible, stunning that a guy like that can make it this far. The "get back on your horse" line though, it seems odd to me that saying that to a Native American is considered racist. It has nothing to do with race, and many cultures have a history of horsemanship.
Click to expand...

Here's the full quote that you're referring to:

Marshall taunted junior forward Isaiah Poor Bear-Chandler, who is of Native American descent, “to get back on his horse” and made “Indian howling noises” while in practice during the 2018-19 season

This is one of the weirdest examples I can think of when it comes to people trying to convince themselves that something isn't racist.
 


> He has had the backing and financial support of the Koch Brothers...
Wow. That really says it all.
 

60's Guy said:
https://www.kansas.com/sports/college/wichita-state/article246410290.html

https://kentuckysportsradio.com/bas...bout-the-gregg-marshall-situation-at-wichita/

It would be surprising if he remains based on witness “testimony“.
Click to expand...

Morris fouled Brown hard and caused Brown to land awkwardly on his back. Morris told Stadium that Marshall struck him on the left side of his face “with a punch” right after the play. After a heated exchange, Marshall kicked Morris out of practice and told him to go on the opposite court and “roll on the court until practice is over.”

Morris refused and began walking away when Marshall struck him again. Morris told Stadium that Marshall hit him over his right shoulder and “hit me in my jaw.”

The first interaction I can marginally understand, not condone but things happen, the second if corroborated should end his tenure at WSU,
 

Keyser Söze said:
Here's the full quote that you're referring to:

Marshall taunted junior forward Isaiah Poor Bear-Chandler, who is of Native American descent, “to get back on his horse” and made “Indian howling noises” while in practice during the 2018-19 season

This is one of the weirdest examples I can think of when it comes to people trying to convince themselves that something isn't racist.
Click to expand...

Those are two different things, not necessarily related. I'm not excusing Marshall's behavior or saying that he didn't say or do racists things. I said it was terrible. The howling noises thing is obviously way over the line. I was speaking more in general about the expression "get back on your horse" That expression in and of itself has nothing to do with race. Asians were riding horses thousands of years before horses were brought to this continent. If anyone should be offended by that expression it should be the Kazakhs.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom