Why this team should play zone

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Otis

Otis

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The Gophers play horrific man to man defense and it ain’t getting any better. At least with zone they can cover some of their massive limitations.

1. Zone keeps a shot blocker near the rim to intimidate driving shot attempts.
2. It’s easier to help in a zone.
3. TT and Payne could help on the three point shots by jumping straight up on attempts depriving the shooter of a look at the rim. Boston’s stiff center does this and is limiting 3pt % below 30%.

I disagree with assessment that zone hurts rebounding! That’s crap! You simply block out the player closest to you!

Gophers rebound like crap because they block out like crap! Teach those guys to stick their asses into the closest player to them and watch their defensive rebounding numbers go up.
 

Otis said:
The Gophers play horrific man to man defense and it ain’t getting any better. At least with zone they can cover some of their massive limitations.

1. Zone keeps a shot blocker near the rim to intimidate driving shot attempts.
2. It’s easier to help in a zone.
3. TT and Payne could help on the three point shots by jumping straight up on attempts depriving the shooter of a look at the rim. Boston’s stiff center does this and is limiting 3pt % below 30%.

I disagree with assessment that zone hurts rebounding! That’s crap! You simply block out the player closest to you!

Gophers rebound like crap because they block out like crap! Teach those guys to stick their asses into the closest player to them and watch their defensive rebounding numbers go up.
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If it were that simple every team would do it, they'll still block out like crap anyways that will increase the issue ten fold. Anyways I like the idea mixing it in, especially as something to throw other teams off in a close game or to stop a run in the first half. Jim Boehiem has what one Natty in 44 years, playing Zone, despite recruiting mostly the best athletes in the Country, and when he won his Natty it was with a one and done ringer, Carmelo Anthony. Eventually if all you do is run zone, especially if you're not recruiting to that system, eventually you will run into a team that can shoot over it or get a guy into the middle who can consistently hit a jump shot from the free throw line. Think Joey King scored 20 points against Syracuse at Maui doing that
 

Dupreefor3 said:
If it were that simple every team would do it, they'll still block out like crap anyways that will increase the issue ten fold. Anyways I like the idea mixing it in, especially as something to throw other teams off in a close game or to stop a run in the first half. Jim Boehiem has what one Natty in 44 years, playing Zone, despite recruiting mostly the best athletes in the Country, and when he won his Natty it was with a one and done ringer, Carmelo Anthony. Eventually if all you do is run zone, especially if you're not recruiting to that system, eventually you will run into a team that can shoot over it or get a guy into the middle who can consistently hit a jump shot from the free throw line. Think Joey King scored 20 points against Syracuse at Maui doing that
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Long term, play tough man to man. This year- we simply cannot play it. St Olaf was beating our guards off the dribble. We should play zone the rest of the year. You have to do the best to win with what you have recruited. Ben recruited slow players.
 

bga1 said:
Long term, play tough man to man. This year- we simply cannot play it. St Olaf was beating our guards off the dribble. We should play zone the rest of the year. You have to do the best to win with what you have recruited. Ben recruited slow players.
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He did, but his Freshman aren't slow their just youthful and make dumb youthful mistakes, that's not going to change by putting an extra sytem on them either. Eventually someone going to beat your zone and then what are the arm chair coaches going to say than. You still have to be quick and athletic to play an effective Zone for 40 minutes, makes rebonding tougher so your instincts their have to be better which our rebounding is not. Just run your shit and if the game's close mix it in at the end. This team might suck a little less in zone, but there still not athletic to do it for a full 40. Takes more than just being tall
 

This isn’t going to be a team that plays a ton of zone. The HC isn’t in a win now situation so I really don’t see a switch of defensively philosophy needed.

Hopefully the current roster can figure out it and future recruits are better equipped to play man to man from the start.
 


Dupreefor3 said:
If it were that simple every team would do it, they'll still block out like crap anyways that will increase the issue ten fold. Anyways I like the idea mixing it in, especially as something to throw other teams off in a close game or to stop a run in the first half. Jim Boehiem has what one Natty in 44 years, playing Zone, despite recruiting mostly the best athletes in the Country, and when he won his Natty it was with a one and done ringer, Carmelo Anthony. Eventually if all you do is run zone, especially if you're not recruiting to that system, eventually you will run into a team that can shoot over it or get a guy into the middle who can consistently hit a jump shot from the free throw line. Think Joey King scored 20 points against Syracuse at Maui doing that
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Have you played basketball?

Your consistent statements that defensive rebounding is hard out of a zone is pretty idiotic.

My high school team had one player over 6’2” and we consistently outrebounded other teams much taller playing almost exclusively zone.

You do this by blocking out. Which is teachable skill.

They don’t block out in man to man either. Which is why their rebounding sucks!

Coach those guys up.
 

Otis said:
Have you played basketball?

Your consistent statements that defensive rebounding is hard out of a zone is pretty idiotic.

My high school team had one player over 6’2” and we consistently outrebounded other teams much taller playing almost exclusively zone.

You do this by blocking out. Which is teachable skill.

They don’t block out in man to man either. Which is why their rebounding sucks!

Coach those guys up.
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TT's blocking out seemed much improved from last year when they were in the zone yesterday. Maybe I'm just hallucinating, but he looked more aggressive finding a body and then boxing out.
 

Couldn't agree more, see my post in the other thread.

We should be a zone team, damn near exclusively this season.

Getting lit up by quicker guards game after game won't help us whatsoever in the future.
 

GopherBlood666 said:
TT's blocking out seemed much improved from last year when they were in the zone yesterday. Maybe I'm just hallucinating, but he looked more aggressive finding a body and then boxing out.
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TT is slow and awkward. Tough for him to block out in man to man because the guy he ends up guarding is faster, more physical or both. Whereas blocking out from a zone he can just stick the closest most opportune body.

Keeping your 7 footer near the basket is sooo helpful to your defense. Which is the whole point to playing zone. How often do they switch out on man to man giving the other team the advantage? All the freaking time!

Keep your big guys where they are most effective.
 



Otis said:
TT is slow and awkward. Tough for him to block out in man to man because the guy he ends up guarding is faster, more physical or both. Whereas blocking out from a zone he can just stick the closest most opportune body.

Keeping your 7 footer near the basket is sooo helpful to your defense. Which is the whole point to playing zone. How often do they switch out on man to man giving the other team the advantage? All the freaking time!

Keep your big guys where they are most effective.
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Great post. +1000%!
 

Has no one watched us play a zone defense? Bigger teams eat us alive on the boards and exploit the holes in our zone defense. Our 1-3-1 gives up rebounding strength and our 2-3 results in our wings being spread out on the perimeter so the middle is easily attacked. Coach has a valid reason for only employing zones sporadically, but you who call for them are likely too basketball illiterate to understand.
 

Don't need to be tall to be a good rebounder. Was there a better rebounder than J Murphy? Or going back a long ways, what about the round mound of rebound, than sir Charles.

You want it go get it. You own that F'ing ball, it's yours. Be the aggressor and win your position.

Garcia looks really soft to me. I liked seeing Carrington sticking his nose in there
 

MennoSota said:
Has no one watched us play a zone defense? Bigger teams eat us alive on the boards and exploit the holes in our zone defense. Our 1-3-1 gives up rebounding strength and our 2-3 results in our wings being spread out on the perimeter so the middle is easily attacked. Coach has a valid reason for only employing zones sporadically, but you who call for them are likely too basketball illiterate to understand.
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Remember when we were getting killed on the boards in man earlier in the year? They have improved but it's not like it was much better. I don't think it's a coincidence that TT was +16 in 11 minutes last night.
 



Defense and rebounding is totally about wanting it and being aggressive. You can be a terrible offensive player because you just don't have the skills to be an effective shooter, but there's no reason for not being a good (or at least adequate) defensive player.
 

MennoSota said:
Has no one watched us play a zone defense? Bigger teams eat us alive on the boards and exploit the holes in our zone defense. Our 1-3-1 gives up rebounding strength and our 2-3 results in our wings being spread out on the perimeter so the middle is easily attacked. Coach has a valid reason for only employing zones sporadically, but you who call for them are likely too basketball illiterate to understand.
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A 1-3-1 zone is kind of a gimmick defense which requires a specific type of athletes. Guy on the baseline has to be taller and really quick from baseline to baseline. Guy in the center need to own the paint, all of it! Wings need to be quick to help out and cover the entire backside from cutters.

Not a good choice for our personnel.

You could run a 3-2 with the team if you want to pressure the 3pt line, but this requires speedy guys up top and is better for a 3 guard lineup. Battle with his foot most likely is too slow to fulfill the wing requirement. But it would keep two bigs in the paint.

A 2-3 zone is probably the zone of choice for these guys.

Unfortunately having slow guards make all defenses hard to be effective.

But a zone at least keeps the bigs where they are effective in denying the rim.

1-3-1 is the worst possible defense for a slow team.
 

GopherBlood666 said:
Remember when we were getting killed on the boards in man earlier in the year? They have improved but it's not like it was much better. I don't think it's a coincidence that TT was +16 in 11 minutes last night.
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Well, just hope he plays all year long against short, weak, opponents.
Honestly, TT is a tall shooting guard who cannot dribble or pass. I would love to see him develop a post game, but at present he just doesn't have it in his abilities. Learning how to play with your back to the basket is a skill all 7'persons should have, but TT just doesn't have it. Both he and Garcia just get tossed around. If you imagine TT is any answer to defensive liabilities, you are simply deluded.
 

Would like to see them employ a zone against a team with good players. No offense to KenPoms 344th best team but I think overreacting to the effectiveness of a zone is a problem.

Man to man we know they’ll get beat off the bounce but there are man to man principles they can adjust. If a team goes 5 out, you don’t need to go stand next to them. Especially a team that shoots as poorly as APB was shooting from 3.

Curious to see what happens as they play better teams and try to mix defenses.
 

MennoSota said:
Well, just hope he plays all year long against short, weak, opponents.
Honestly, TT is a tall shooting guard who cannot dribble or pass. I would love to see him develop a post game, but at present he just doesn't have it in his abilities. Learning how to play with your back to the basket is a skill all 7'persons should have, but TT just doesn't have it. Both he and Garcia just get tossed around. If you imagine TT is any answer to defensive liabilities, you are simply deluded.
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Playing with your back to the basket is an offensive skill and we are talking about defense. I'm not saying TT is a world beater but it was clear last night their defense was much improved with him in the game playing zone. We don't have many options, obviously it's not ideal to give him big minutes against most teams. Numbers from last night do not lie however.
 

UpAndUnder43 said:
Would like to see them employ a zone against a team with good players. No offense to KenPoms 344th best team but I think overreacting to the effectiveness of a zone is a problem.

Man to man we know they’ll get beat off the bounce but there are man to man principles they can adjust. If a team goes 5 out, you don’t need to go stand next to them. Especially a team that shoots as poorly as APB was shooting from 3.

Curious to see what happens as they play better teams and try to mix defenses.
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They aren't doing well making man adjustments so far this year. There is still plenty of time however.
 


Otis said:
TT is slow and awkward. Tough for him to block out in man to man because the guy he ends up guarding is faster, more physical or both. Whereas blocking out from a zone he can just stick the closest most opportune body.

Keeping your 7 footer near the basket is sooo helpful to your defense. Which is the whole point to playing zone. How often do they switch out on man to man giving the other team the advantage? All the freaking time!

Keep your big guys where they are most effective.
Click to expand...
Anyone know of an eight footer we could recruit? 🤔
 

I wonder about their scouting and coaching for the opponent. Defense needs to flex to the oppositions strengths. No need to spread out your D against a poor 3pt team you can pack it in. Against a good shooting team you gotta pressure the outside or you’re dead.

Last night a 2-3 was effective cause they weren’t shooting well. That wasn’t the case vs Michigan.

The team defense doesn’t adjust well at all.
 

GopherJack said:
Defense and rebounding is totally about wanting it and being aggressive. You can be a terrible offensive player because you just don't have the skills to be an effective shooter, but there's no reason for not being a good (or at least adequate) defensive player.
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See Rodman, Dennis.
 

Otis said:
Have you played basketball?

Your consistent statements that defensive rebounding is hard out of a zone is pretty idiotic.

My high school team had one player over 6’2” and we consistently outrebounded other teams much taller playing almost exclusively zone.

You do this by blocking out. Which is teachable skill.

They don’t block out in man to man either. Which is why their rebounding sucks!

Coach those guys up.
Click to expand...
Zones almost always are more susceptible to offensive rebounds.
 

GopherBlood666 said:
Remember when we were getting killed on the boards in man earlier in the year? They have improved but it's not like it was much better. I don't think it's a coincidence that TT was +16 in 11 minutes last night.
Click to expand...
Where do you find the +/- intel ?
 


RockChalk said:
Don't need to be tall to be a good rebounder. Was there a better rebounder than J Murphy? Or going back a long ways, what about the round mound of rebound, than sir Charles.

You want it go get it. You own that F'ing ball, it's yours. Be the aggressor and win your position.

Garcia looks really soft to me. I liked seeing Carrington sticking his nose in there
Click to expand...
I think he's played a lot harder in the last couple of games. I don't think he's an ideal post player by any measure, but he is playing much grittier the last couple games.
 

Otis said:
The Gophers play horrific man to man defense and it ain’t getting any better. At least with zone they can cover some of their massive limitations.

1. Zone keeps a shot blocker near the rim to intimidate driving shot attempts.
2. It’s easier to help in a zone.
3. TT and Payne could help on the three point shots by jumping straight up on attempts depriving the shooter of a look at the rim. Boston’s stiff center does this and is limiting 3pt % below 30%.

I disagree with assessment that zone hurts rebounding! That’s crap! You simply block out the player closest to you!

Gophers rebound like crap because they block out like crap! Teach those guys to stick their asses into the closest player to them and watch their defensive rebounding numbers go up.
Click to expand...
Plus our rebounding already sucks. How much worse could it really get?
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Zones almost always are more susceptible to offensive rebounds.
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Agreed, zones are almost always more susceptible to offensive rebounds. And I believe one of the other reasons Johnson is hesitant to play zone is that these guys are going to need to play better man defense against good teams. They might have more success right now playing some zones than man to man, but the more zone they play, the less time these guys have to improve on their man defensive skills.

It might be painful to watch right now, but it should improve. Please, no more "they have to play zone all the time." Not going to happen, and it shouldn't.
 

Dupreefor3 said:
He did, but his Freshman aren't slow their just youthful and make dumb youthful mistakes, that's not going to change by putting an extra sytem on them either. Eventually someone going to beat your zone and then what are the arm chair coaches going to say than. You still have to be quick and athletic to play an effective Zone for 40 minutes, makes rebonding tougher so your instincts their have to be better which our rebounding is not. Just run your shit and if the game's close mix it in at the end. This team might suck a little less in zone, but there still not athletic to do it for a full 40. Takes more than just being tall
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They snuffed out the gritty Arkansas Pine Bluff group last night with it. As soon as they went to it, they stop scoring on us for a good while. Winning is more important right now than teaching man to man.
 

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