What's your bottom line?

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Maintaining a compliant program is a threshold measurement. So is recruiting players that are good citizens. I would take no pride in a national championship if we cheated or had criminals on our roster or staff. But good character is only a threshold. My criteria for football performance are (over every five seasons) : 1. win 12 of 15 non-conference games; 2. win 25 of 45 conference games; 3. win 5 of 15 trophy games; 4. give fans hope every Saturday that a win is possible -- maybe not likely, but possible; 5. win 2 of 4 bowl games.

Some will consider these standards to be accepting of mediocrity. To that, I say, let's climb from where we are to these levels in the next five years then set new, bolder ones. In the meantime, at this stage of Gopher football, I think these are challenging enough. I'd call meeting them a success.
 

edma0012 said:
Year 3 is the year you can expect some signs of improvement based upon what others in this part of the country have done.

Consider:

Mark Dantonio- yr 3, he was 4-4 in B1G and in year four went 7-1
Glen Mason was 5-3 yr 3
Ron Zook was 6-2 and went to the Rose Bowl in yr 3. RON ZOOK! back to back 2 win seasons then BAM, Rose Bowl!
Iowa State's coach has won 3 conference games each year he's been there. Iowa state!
Pat Fitzgerald went 5-3 in the B1G his 3rd year
Old school guys like Ferentz, he went 4-4 in 3rd year then 8-0 in yr 4
Alvarez was 3-5 yr 3 then 6-1-1 in yr 4.
Click to expand...

Dantonio - Nevermind he took over a program where talent was never the issue. In year 3 he was 3-3 after six games. Kill and Minnesota are 4-2.

Rhoads - 4-2 in year 3. Same as Kill. Sure wish Minnesota had a conference layup like Kansas every year.

Ferentz - 4-2 in year 3. Same as Kill. Iowa lost its next two games to fall to 2-4 in the B1G.

Alvarez - 4-2 in year 3. Same as Kill. Lost four of their last 5.
 

"How are we measuring 'regression'?"

"Spot on...except you forgot one thing: His recruiting haul last season was rated 12th (12th!!!) in the Big Ten. That's last place for all of you paying attention. I knew that small-program Jerry was going to have difficulty transitioning to a BCS conference in regards to recruiting, but I never thought it would fall that low."

Maximus said:
Dantonio - Nevermind he took over a program where talent was never the issue. In year 3 he was 3-3 after six games. Kill and Minnesota are 4-2.

Rhoads - 4-2 in year 3. Same as Kill. Sure wish Minnesota had a conference layup like Kansas every year.

Ferentz - 4-2 in year 3. Same as Kill. Iowa lost its next two games to fall to 2-4 in the B1G.

Alvarez - 4-2 in year 3. Same as Kill. Lost four of their last 5.
Click to expand...

After attacking Kill on the day they announced his leave, he's getting so desperate he started randomly throwing in "Pittino" and "Maturi" to try and curry favor. Why are people even feeding this troll?
 

edma0012 said:
Kill's model appears to be catch lightening in a bottle with a senior filled team every 5th season.
Click to expand...

Hmmm...I guess Northern Illinois has caught lightning in a bottle for 5 years straight then...

When is the last time a MAC school played in the Orange Bowl...hmmm...

I get it, Eddie, you hate Coach Kill because...
You can keep on being a hater, but the good thing is no one is required to take your hate seriously.
 



Maximus said:
Can you believe the head coach of Florida International was available!?!?!?!
Click to expand...


Very funny and very true! Rather than a "stroke of genius", I'd call it a stroke of "i don't know what else to do now, so let's pick a well known last name". Kill will turn around the football program well before Pitino makes it to the tournament. Pitino will be Brewster-esque for the first several years. Talks a good game.
 

Maximus said:
Dantonio - Nevermind he took over a program where talent was never the issue. In year 3 he was 3-3 after six games. Kill and Minnesota are 4-2.
Click to expand...

Michigan State was terrible for the better part of a decade prior to Dantonio taking over.
 


edma0012 said:
Nobody wants to look at the objective metrics of Kill's tenure because all those numbers show this program, albeit subjectively more "professional" in both appearance and how it conducts itself, is, at best, treading water from where lowly Brewster had us.

I would like people to explain what's so special about Kill anyway.
He won at division 2. (BFD)
He took an established lower tier D1 School to two bowl games in 3 seasons (bowl games which he lost)
He hasn't fired or replaced an assistant coach in 65 years.
He had cancer once, and beat it.
He likes football.
He talks like he's from the SEC part of the country (which sadly he is not).
He does a lot of non-profit work for cancer research (which major conference coach doesn't have a foundation now?)

The reality is:
He's never "Built" or "Re-built" a program of comparison to the U
He's never taken on a program of this size. Forget the historical success or recent failures, the U's program is huge.
The football program generates in excess of $30 million a year in revenue.
Kill's old schools (N.Illinois) entire athletic department budget was only 20 million.
Kill's never spent time as even an assistant at a top tier BCS level program.
He can't win B1G games.
He goes out of his way to schedule creamy cream puffs for Non-con games.
And of course his health is a legitimate concern now.


I know Kill is/was the anti-Brewster, but seriously, what was/is so special about him? What school at this level hires a coach expecting a 5 year period to even begin expecting results? I realize we are paying him peanuts compared to his piers, and that's part of the problem, but when can we get a culture of expect to win around here?

Year 3 is the year you can expect some signs of improvement based upon what others in this part of the country have done.

Consider:

Mark Dantonio- yr 3, he was 4-4 in B1G and in year four went 7-1
Glen Mason was 5-3 yr 3
Ron Zook was 6-2 and went to the Rose Bowl in yr 3. RON ZOOK! back to back 2 win seasons then BAM, Rose Bowl!
Iowa State's coach has won 3 conference games each year he's been there. Iowa state!
Pat Fitzgerald went 5-3 in the B1G his 3rd year
Old school guys like Ferentz, he went 4-4 in 3rd year then 8-0 in yr 4
Alvarez was 3-5 yr 3 then 6-1-1 in yr 4.

All of these guys took over programs in a substantially similar situation to the U and all of these dudes had SUBSTANTIALLY better success by year 3 then Kill. They didn't win year one, but they did by year 3. Why is this so hard for people to see?

The program is still at the bottom of the shat pile Brewster took it to. Jettisoning Kill won't make anything worse, because its as bad as it can get already. But I digress.

Love the banter, thanks Gopherhole.
Click to expand...

Look at Kevin Wilson who started the same time as Kill and no one would say Indiana is a better place than Minnesota for football. He scored 49 against the great Urban last yr. and he beat a very good Penn State team this yr. We beat Iowa and Purdue and Ill. under Kill. People feel sorry for Kill but I have hopped off the bandwagon. The Iowa showing was pitiful. Michigan is very beatable and they bulldozed us. We will be lucky to get 5 wins this year.
 



edma0012 said:
Nobody wants to look at the objective metrics of Kill's tenure because all those numbers show this program, albeit subjectively more "professional" in both appearance and how it conducts itself, is, at best, treading water from where lowly Brewster had us.

I would like people to explain what's so special about Kill anyway.
He won at division 2. (BFD)
He took an established lower tier D1 School to two bowl games in 3 seasons (bowl games which he lost)
He hasn't fired or replaced an assistant coach in 65 years.
He had cancer once, and beat it.
He likes football.
He talks like he's from the SEC part of the country (which sadly he is not).
He does a lot of non-profit work for cancer research (which major conference coach doesn't have a foundation now?)

The reality is:
He's never "Built" or "Re-built" a program of comparison to the U
He's never taken on a program of this size. Forget the historical success or recent failures, the U's program is huge.
The football program generates in excess of $30 million a year in revenue.
Kill's old schools (N.Illinois) entire athletic department budget was only 20 million.
Kill's never spent time as even an assistant at a top tier BCS level program.
He can't win B1G games.
He goes out of his way to schedule creamy cream puffs for Non-con games.
And of course his health is a legitimate concern now.


I know Kill is/was the anti-Brewster, but seriously, what was/is so special about him? What school at this level hires a coach expecting a 5 year period to even begin expecting results? I realize we are paying him peanuts compared to his piers, and that's part of the problem, but when can we get a culture of expect to win around here?

Year 3 is the year you can expect some signs of improvement based upon what others in this part of the country have done.

Consider:

Mark Dantonio- yr 3, he was 4-4 in B1G and in year four went 7-1
Glen Mason was 5-3 yr 3
Ron Zook was 6-2 and went to the Rose Bowl in yr 3. RON ZOOK! back to back 2 win seasons then BAM, Rose Bowl!
Iowa State's coach has won 3 conference games each year he's been there. Iowa state!
Pat Fitzgerald went 5-3 in the B1G his 3rd year
Old school guys like Ferentz, he went 4-4 in 3rd year then 8-0 in yr 4
Alvarez was 3-5 yr 3 then 6-1-1 in yr 4.

All of these guys took over programs in a substantially similar situation to the U and all of these dudes had SUBSTANTIALLY better success by year 3 then Kill. They didn't win year one, but they did by year 3. Why is this so hard for people to see?

The program is still at the bottom of the shat pile Brewster took it to. Jettisoning Kill won't make anything worse, because its as bad as it can get already. But I digress.

Love the banter, thanks Gopherhole.
Click to expand...

Look at Kevin Wilson who started the same time as Kill and no one would say Indiana is a better place than Minnesota for football. He scored 49 against the great Urban last yr. and he beat a very good Penn State team this yr. We beat Iowa and Purdue and Ill. under Kill. People feel sorry for Kill but I have hopped off the bandwagon. The Iowa showing was pitiful. Michigan is very beatable and they bulldozed us. We will be lucky to get 5 wins this year.
 







BreakTheGopherCurse said:
Very funny and very true! Rather than a "stroke of genius", I'd call it a stroke of "i don't know what else to do now, so let's pick a well known last name". Kill will turn around the football program well before Pitino makes it to the tournament. Pitino will be Brewster-esque for the first several years. Talks a good game.
Click to expand...


If we can agree on a definition of "turn around the football program" and the time line of "well before" I would be willing to bet a substantially amount of money on coach Pitino making it to the tournament first...
 

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