What is wrong with this team?

RockChalk

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I don't understand coaches use of TT. I notice when he's in it's like the other players ignore him. They rather hoist up a contested 3 then pass to him in the corner for an open shot.
Why is a 7 ft'er in the corner for an open shot in the first place?

They don't seem to be all that hungry to get dirty and rebound. Rebounding is about attitude and so far this team shows none.
 

RockChalk

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Battle was at his best last year when he would take the ball to the rim and pull up for jumpers....working his way back to the 3-point line. I specifically remember games (Wisconsin?) when he threw down some huge dunks. Now, driving seems like an afterthought......he's doing step-back 30 footers. Hope it's not the injury and that can change.

Garcia? I hope it was the illness last night because (a) he looks softer than tissue paper and (b) he looks like he's not interested in playing hard. He has to be a leader for the younger guys. I don't know if that going to change or not.
100% agree with your take regarding Garcia.
 

RockChalk

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Comparing women's basketball to mens is apples and oranges. Men's basketball generates the 2nd most revenue of all U sports, and women's bball is one of the biggest losers. It's much easier to be patient on the women's side when Whalen is bringing in top recruiting classes in the country and they don't make any money.

But if this uncompetitive mens basketball continues and the barn becomes more of a ghost town, that's a big problem when it comes to generating revenue and would require faster action.

As far as Ben's recruiting, next year is a nice class with a lot of potential, but it's not top 10-20, nor is it that rare here. It's still a middle of the pack B1G class currently ranked in the mid 30s nationally. It's comparable to the class Pitino brought in with Coffey and Curry. Both Pitino and Tubby have had several similarly ranked classes.
Really? I would think Gopher hockey would be more of a generator than BB. When I was a season ticket holder Mariucci had 10,000 every night. When was the last time the BB had 10,000? LOL
 

RockChalk

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Mixing a bunch of new players together, including 4 freshmen is a recipe for disaster and add in a 2nd year coach. It's not time to panic with 2 good players being added next year (Plus those injured), but they need to play for each other and become a team. They need some Fleck affect in the program right now. I agree with those saying it's just too stagnant on offense. They don't have a premier ball handler and distributer at this point. They need to share the ball better.
Interesting take. Same scenario albeit different league but still young players with a younger coach.

 

GopherWeatherGuy

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Really? I would think Gopher hockey would be more of a generator than BB. When I was a season ticket holder Mariucci had 10,000 every night. When was the last time the BB had 10,000? LOL

Pretty much every conference game had ~10,000 or more last season. The Barn holds almost 15k.
 



Lion King

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I've been trying to tell everyone this. This year has ZERO to do with wins & losses. The ONLY thing that matters is our freshmen gaining experience.

That being said...Coach Johnson isn't above criticism. He needs to set Battle & Garcia straight about what the plan is. Either you're both returning next year, or you're both out of here...this isn't a 1-year NBA audition. And Cooper shouldn't be shooting at all.
[/QUOTE
But it is a one year audition , and both will fail & end up in Iran playing .
 

Spaulding!No!

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This will be a long season but this group is going to turn it around. I still think coach will be successful. Players play and he will recruit good players
It doesn’t matter if we lose every game as long as kids are learning.
 

PhiloVance

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Why is a 7 ft'er in the corner for an open shot in the first place?

They don't seem to be all that hungry to get dirty and rebound. Rebounding is about attitude and so far this team shows none.
Their best player to date is PP and his range is 3 feet and in. TT is a 4 not a 5 which is where he probably has practiced at and played at since a young age. TT is capable of hitting 3s and feeding the post. But if you play PP & TT together Garcia has to sit and we know no matter how poorly Garcia plays that's not going to happen. So the best option for TT is to ask Gard to sign and develop him. I think TT has potential but not in the Gopher system.
 



Formerswish

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This is explained by...

This^^ roster construction, lack of quickness and effort, which you don't like either, obviously.

We should not be happy with that.

This I agree with. I really like the frosh on this team. A lot of people here do yet are unhappy with the construction of the team (in this age of free agency) and the lack of any form on offense.

I see both the reason for the glass half full and half empty approach this year. Ben may well become a great coach...but there is no track record that points us to confident patience. There lies the problem.
Well, I didn't say anything about their effort. I don't think their effort has been lacking. When you're not running a clean offense (I don't mean to blame the freshmen on everything, but..) it often looks like a lack of effort when people are standing around. As far as roster construction, a quick point guard who can penetrate and distribute would solve a lot, and perhaps that will happen through the portal. The roster construction does seem to be heavy with 6'4-6'7 guys who are borderline guard types. I don't think you can always construct a roster perfectly. I agree with you that Ben may become a great coach, but we just don't know. Is that a problem? Let's give him a chance to show us.
 

Bob_Loblaw

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Agreed however, how many fill that 15,000 seat arena?
Gopher hockey averages around 8,000 people, the basketball team averages slightly over 10,000 people per game. Basketball games get drastically better ratings than hockey games on BTN (the main revenue generator).

Even at the U, basketball brings in considerably more revenue than hockey.
 

jovs

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Their best player to date is PP and his range is 3 feet and in. TT is a 4 not a 5 which is where he probably has practiced at and played at since a young age. TT is capable of hitting 3s and feeding the post. But if you play PP & TT together Garcia has to sit and we know no matter how poorly Garcia plays that's not going to happen. So the best option for TT is to ask Gard to sign and develop him. I think TT has potential but not in the Gopher system.
If Battle and Garcia continue to produce like they have been I think you have to cut their minutes, something has to motivate them, they can't think their performance doesn't matter.

They had a system last year, moved the ball, used the post. Cooper is just to slow getting the team into a set, it would drive me crazy with him as a point guard.
 

bga1

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Well, I didn't say anything about their effort. I don't think their effort has been lacking. When you're not running a clean offense (I don't mean to blame the freshmen on everything, but..) it often looks like a lack of effort when people are standing around. As far as roster construction, a quick point guard who can penetrate and distribute would solve a lot, and perhaps that will happen through the portal. The roster construction does seem to be heavy with 6'4-6'7 guys who are borderline guard types. I don't think you can always construct a roster perfectly. I agree with you that Ben may become a great coach, but we just don't know. Is that a problem? Let's give him a chance to show us.
We as fans have no choice but to do so. The program desperately needs to win by next year.
 




60's Guy

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I think I see what you're saying, but I'm not sure this makes any sense. Of course there's pressure; that's the case with every player on every team everywhere. Are you saying he's struggling because the offense is dysfunctional? OK, that's a point, but it doesn't explain why he's missing open looks that he'd have made blindfolded last year.
Battle is not comfortable playing at the moment. I haven't talked to him, I haven't been to practice....so I really don't know why. But you see the same thing I do. He is not playing like he can.
I'm sure the injury, time off practice is a major component. Pressure is a million per cent not equal on players in any sport. Some absolutely have more responsibility in the outcome of the game and they realize it, want it. When they are not comfortable for whatever the reason...they play like Battle has this season. At the least they all have different responsibilities, hence different pressures. But if the scorer can't score...you probably can't win because you only got one proven scorer. (That is not the same pressure for everybody...kids know who is who and who does what...roles)

Players do have expectations within the team. Coach to Jordan Murphy: "Jordan you can't play
32 minutes and get 3 rebounds, we can't win. You are the leading rebounder in the conference.
We are counting on you for double figure rebounds on a bad night. Your teammates depend on you, look to you for that. If you don't deliver then they get nervous about what's wrong and they have doubt. Pretty soon it's contagious. Nobody is better at rebounding than you...you gotta be consistent on the boards for us to win." Is that pressure? Or is that inspiration? It is reality...that's what will take for our team to have a chance to win.

Same with each guy, whatever their responsibilities. For me: It would start with Cooper and defense. Contest shooters, hustle. You are at the top of our defense. Your teammates see you.
If you are lazy on defense...they will be too. If you work your butt off...they will too. Doesn't happen...we can't win. That's what I need from you.
Scoring conversations much the same....I don't know the number but I do know if Battle isn't our leading scorer or very close...we ain't winning. Yes, that's pressure. When a player capable of those roles is comfortable, bought in, they want it...it's what they do best. When they aren't comfortable and something is wrong .... they play like Battle. I'm saying it could be he is trying to do too much and ending up with nothing. Too much because reality has hit him sitting and watching...he realizes he is all we got on the offensive end.

That help explain it?
 

60's Guy

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Why is a 7 ft'er in the corner for an open shot in the first place?

They don't seem to be all that hungry to get dirty and rebound. Rebounding is about attitude and so far this team shows none.
Pretend TT is 6 feet tall. He does not want to play inside. He's not going to be consistently effective inside. He can't defend man to man...he needs to be on the perimeter in a zone defense.
He can shoot 3's...he could possibly be really good at it...if it was emphasized, which it doesn't seem to be.
Ola Joseph and Payne are the physical guys you are looking for. It's not who the other guys are.
Height doesn't matter...Garcia has no idea he is 6'11.
There are different ways to rebound...Jordan Murphy didn't box people out but he did pursue the ball when it left the shooters hand and went to the spot he wanted for where he thought the miss would go. It is innate in some but it is teachable....BUT, teaching people to bang who don't want to bang by nature is going to create an unhappy team and yield very uneven results. If that's your preference, you need to recruit bangers.
 



Dupreefor3

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Ben seems totally against using the 12th and 13th scholarships for fear of upsetting someone and having them transfer. I don't get it. It's foolishness, IMO. Injuries always happen. And if someone can't crack the rotation on this team, they should transfer if they don't like it.
Next year will be interesting since as of right now there are 14 scholarship guys, obviously one is going to have to go. Assuming Ramburg is close to graduating, otherwise it would make no sense to give him one for this year, hurts the APR score if we push him out before he gets his degree.
 

Gophs24

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Next year will be interesting since as of right now there are 14 scholarship guys, obviously one is going to have to go. Assuming Ramburg is close to graduating, otherwise it would make no sense to give him one for this year, hurts the APR score if we push him out before he gets his degree.
i think its safe to assume we will not have a scholarship issue next year. there will be roster movement after a 10-12 win season.....
 

Gophs24

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If Battle and Garcia continue to produce like they have been I think you have to cut their minutes, something has to motivate them, they can't think their performance doesn't matter.

They had a system last year, moved the ball, used the post. Cooper is just to slow getting the team into a set, it would drive me crazy with him as a point guard.
im not sure i can handle watching Cooper as our starting PG all season long. and honestly, if this team is going to be any good next year we are going to have to have something better at PG than Cooper
 

Bunyan

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Comparing women's basketball to mens is apples and oranges. Men's basketball generates the 2nd most revenue of all U sports, and women's bball is one of the biggest losers. It's much easier to be patient on the women's side when Whalen is bringing in top recruiting classes in the country and they don't make any money.

But if this uncompetitive mens basketball continues and the barn becomes more of a ghost town, that's a big problem when it comes to generating revenue and would require faster action.

As far as Ben's recruiting, next year is a nice class with a lot of potential, but it's not top 10-20, nor is it that rare here. It's still a middle of the pack B1G class currently ranked in the mid 30s nationally. It's comparable to the class Pitino brought in with Coffey and Curry. Both Pitino and Tubby have had several similarly ranked classes.
Women's bball makes lots of money. Ask Mark Coyle how much money Whalen makes the U from alumnus and private donors who pay to try to see her succeed at coaching. That is why he hired her and lets her hire all her friends as coaches. She brings in the money.
 

cjbfbp

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If that’s actually the way he saw it I’d say blew it Ihnen seems to be regarded as the next Magi’s Johnson Last time I saw him play he couldn’t handle, shoot or play defense although his physical ability made him a decent prospect,

I agree with the ball handling and shooting parts but I think he was a pretty good defender. His long arms and quick reflexes made him one of our best post area defenders and also one of our better rebounders on a per minute basis. Unfortunately, Pitino didn't use him enough in that area. Those things also made him a challenge to drive around and that might have been what gave Johnson the idea to use him as a defensive 2 guard. The problem with using him on the perimeter is that pretty much negated his offensive contributions due to poor ball handling and outside shooting and also limited his rebounding opportunities.
 

GopherWeatherGuy

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You continue to look for any possible way to spin to the negative. Evans is the highest rated recruit that we've attracted in 20 years... AND he's not from Minnesota! Christie has been rated in the top 100 by multiple services AND is the brother of a one and done player who went to Michigan State. These are reasons to be excited NOT be a debby downer.

I'm realistic, something you really struggle with. I'm excited for Evans, he could be great, but he's raw and it's likely going to take time for him to develop.

Max Christie was a top 22 recruit in the country last year and a McDonalds All American. He averaged 9.3 pts, 3.5 rebs, and 1.5 asts on 38% FG and 32% 3pt for a talented Michigan St team that underachieved and finished 11-9 in the B1G last season. Cooper and Garcia have put up much better numbers than that so far this season and 3/4 of this board is ready to run both of them off.

Cam Christie is nowhere near as highly rated, but he and Evans are nice, developmental recruits with huge upside. We are going to need a lot more than them and what we currently have on the roster to be competitive next season, especially at the guard position.
 

GopherWeatherGuy

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Women's bball makes lots of money. Ask Mark Coyle how much money Whalen makes the U from alumnus and private donors who pay to try to see her succeed at coaching. That is why he hired her and lets her hire all her friends as coaches. She brings in the money.

That's just not true and the numbers are easy to find. Football makes far and away the most money. Men's basketball is 2nd, and men's hockey is 3rd. Every other sport loses money, with women's basketball being the biggest loser.
 

cjbfbp

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Next year will be interesting since as of right now there are 14 scholarship guys, obviously one is going to have to go. Assuming Ramburg is close to graduating, otherwise it would make no sense to give him one for this year, hurts the APR score if we push him out before he gets his degree.

This is Samuels' 5th post-high school year (The Ivy League cancelled the 2020-21 season). I suspect he was promised a scholarship for one year only even if he could get another year of eligibility.

We did have one transfer last season and I wouldn't be at all surprised if we had at least one more at the end of this season. I'm also not 100% convinced that Fox will return. Next year would be his 7th post high school year.
 

Dupreefor3

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This is Samuels' 5th post-high school year (The Ivy League cancelled the 2020-21 season). I suspect he was promised a scholarship for one year only even if he could get another year of eligibility.

We did have one transfer last season and I wouldn't be at all surprised if we had at least one more at the end of this season. I'm also not 100% convinced that Fox will return. Next year would be his 7th post high school year.
Wasn't counting Samuels. Believe this will be the technical break down for next year
Freshman: Christie, Evans, Betts (RS)
Sophomore: Carrington, Henley, Payne, JOJ
Juniors: Thompson, Garcia (4th year Junior) Ihnen (5th year Junior)
Seniors: Fox, (7th year Sr) Battle, (5th year Sr) Ramberg, (5th year Sr) Cooper (5th year Sr)
Think Fox could apply for an 8th because of two injury years and covid year. Ihnen I think could apply for a sixth and even a 7th year with his injuries. Thought about putting him as a fifth year Sophomore but that sounded weird. Ramberg spent two years at McGill, the French Canadian Harvard before coming here, so maybe he will have his degree in the Spring. Then after that who knows, feel like there's always one transfer. If we get down to 12, hopefully we bring in PG with two or three years, someone we can pair with a 2024 Freshman
 

leib0039

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Wasn't counting Samuels. Believe this will be the technical break down for next year
Freshman: Christie, Evans, Betts (RS)
Sophomore: Carrington, Henley, Payne, JOJ
Juniors: Thompson, Garcia (4th year Junior) Ihnen (5th year Junior)
Seniors: Fox, (7th year Sr) Battle, (5th year Sr) Ramberg, (5th year Sr) Cooper (5th year Sr)
Think Fox could apply for an 8th because of two injury years and covid year. Ihnen I think could apply for a sixth and even a 7th year with his injuries. Thought about putting him as a fifth year Sophomore but that sounded weird. Ramberg spent two years at McGill, the French Canadian Harvard before coming here, so maybe he will have his degree in the Spring. Then after that who knows, feel like there's always one transfer. If we get down to 12, hopefully we bring in PG with two or three years, someone we can pair with a 2024 Freshman
I am also guilty of doing it, but honestly there is really no reason to look at next years roster. With the amount of turnover across the county it is a fairly useless exercise. I am sure 5 years ago we all assumed Gabe would never leave, he did, Oturu/Coffey to the nba, etc. You would like to think these guys stay but you never know. I doubt Bucky Irving was truly upset here, but Oregon came in wish a nice cash offer and hes gone. With the amount of tampering that happens i would be shocked if someone didnt get in Payne's ear and tell him hey we have $x sitting here for you just saying, or someone tells Henley hey you will play 35min a game here or Battle you can get good shots here. There are a million things that could happen so its impossible to know what happens.
 

Spaulding!No!

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I am also guilty of doing it, but honestly there is really no reason to look at next years roster. With the amount of turnover across the county it is a fairly useless exercise. I am sure 5 years ago we all assumed Gabe would never leave, he did, Oturu/Coffey to the nba, etc. You would like to think these guys stay but you never know. I doubt Bucky Irving was truly upset here, but Oregon came in wish a nice cash offer and hes gone. With the amount of tampering that happens i would be shocked if someone didnt get in Payne's ear and tell him hey we have $x sitting here for you just saying, or someone tells Henley hey you will play 35min a game here or Battle you can get good shots here. There are a million things that could happen so its impossible to know what happens.
So you are saying there is no ‘next year’? It’s all we have. It’s all we have ever had.
 

Dupreefor3

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I am also guilty of doing it, but honestly there is really no reason to look at next years roster. With the amount of turnover across the county it is a fairly useless exercise. I am sure 5 years ago we all assumed Gabe would never leave, he did, Oturu/Coffey to the nba, etc. You would like to think these guys stay but you never know. I doubt Bucky Irving was truly upset here, but Oregon came in wish a nice cash offer and hes gone. With the amount of tampering that happens i would be shocked if someone didnt get in Payne's ear and tell him hey we have $x sitting here for you just saying, or someone tells Henley hey you will play 35min a game here or Battle you can get good shots here. There are a million things that could happen so its impossible to know what happens.
Agreed and like I said at the bottom there's always one transfer, think this team has had someone with eligibility leave every year going back to Clem's first year. It's more of a lay out of where we are at present day and what would need to happen if we are to add someone. I am not worried about it as there's a million different scenarios that could play out, mabe the staff has an honest convo with TT about his future minutes. Maybe Battle and Garcia get delusions of grandeur and try to get paid, maybe Fox or Ihnen medically retires, maybe Henley gets homesick like Cobb did. Maybe someone does what USC did with Bucky Irving to Pharrell Payne and offers him an NIL deal, pulls it for someone else and he scrambles to Oregon to take the next best deal, who knows, maybe someone's phone gets stolen at Mall of America and we have Eifel Tower Part Deux and dudes get dismissed.
 




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