What is wrong with this team?

cheeseheadgophfan

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Battle was at his best last year when he would take the ball to the rim and pull up for jumpers....working his way back to the 3-point line. I specifically remember games (Wisconsin?) when he threw down some huge dunks. Now, driving seems like an afterthought......he's doing step-back 30 footers. Hope it's not the injury and that can change.

Garcia? I hope it was the illness last night because (a) he looks softer than tissue paper and (b) he looks like he's not interested in playing hard. He has to be a leader for the younger guys. I don't know if that going to change or not.
 
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Spottedmuskie

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5-19 since January 1st, 2022

Wins against Western Michigan, St. Francis Brooklyn, Central Michigan, California Baptist and the signature win is a 3 point win over Rutgers

Yikes

EDIT: as a couple posters noted after I originally posted this, the Gophers also beat Penn State and Northwestern last winter, post January 1st. The correct record is 7-19. My apologies to the board. Two day suspension.
good job Kansas, self imposed
 

BleedGopher

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Answer - Mark Coyle

Yea, somehow he's escaping the wrath of the local media. I sincerely hope Whalen and Johnson succeed big time here, but if they don't, no way Coyle should survive. You don't hire two first time head coaches at a Big Ten University and survive as the AD if both flame out.

But we aren't at that point yet. We all want Whalen and Johnson to succeed, no one loves a "one of us" success story more than Minnesota fans.

Go Whalen and Johnson!!
 

CPTMidnight

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Answer - Mark Coyle
If you consider some of the things said by Coyle, BJ, and the selection committee and factor in Coyle's rumored interest in other AD jobs around the country I assume that the hire was forced down Coyle's throat. If you ask me - Coyle had little choice on this hire for political/racial reasons. ...and the moment Ben was hired the first 2 years were sacrificed on the alter of their gods.

Still, I like Ben, and hope we can give him the time he needs to be successful because I believe he has the ability to get it back on track (lucky for us and no thanks to the idiots making decisions at the U).
 


GopherWeatherGuy

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If you consider some of the things said by Coyle, BJ, and the selection committee and factor in Coyle's rumored interest in other AD jobs around the country I assume that the hire was forced down Coyle's throat. If you ask me - Coyle had little choice on this hire for political/racial reasons. ...and the moment Ben was hired the first 2 years were sacrificed on the alter of their gods.

Still, I like Ben, and hope we can give him the time he needs to be successful because I believe he has the ability to get it back on track (lucky for us and no thanks to the idiots making decisions at the U).

Yup
 

Bunyan

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Yea, somehow he's escaping the wrath of the local media. I sincerely hope Whalen and Johnson succeed big time here, but if they don't, no way Coyle should survive. You don't hire two first time head coaches at a Big Ten University and survive as the AD if both flame out.

But we aren't at that point yet. We all want Whalen and Johnson to succeed, no one loves a "one of us" success story more than Minnesota fans.

Go Whalen and Johnson!!
We are way past the point with Whalen (should have been gone 2 years ago). She has lost all of her recruits from classes 2018, 2019, 2020 and no recruits outside of MN will touch her or the MN program. Other D1 coaches smile when asked about Whalen's coaching ability. She is stuck with recruiting locals and foreign players now.

As for Johnson, his time is ticking. He cannot attract enough talent and what talent he does get, he does not seem to utilize them to the best of their abilities. Should be his last year IMO. He's no PJ Fleck.
 

stocker08

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We are way past the point with Whalen (should have been gone 2 years ago). She has lost all of her recruits from classes 2018, 2019, 2020 and no recruits outside of MN will touch her or the MN program. Other D1 coaches smile when asked about Whalen's coaching ability. She is stuck with recruiting locals and foreign players now.

As for Johnson, his time is ticking. He cannot attract enough talent and what talent he does get, he does not seem to utilize them to the best of their abilities. Should be his last year IMO. He's no PJ Fleck.

Almost no coach gets fired two years in. His freshman class looks to have a ton of potential. And he's signed the highest rated recruit in 20 years who hasn't even touched the floor yet. This is the post of someone who cannot see past their own nose.
 

bga1

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If you consider some of the things said by Coyle, BJ, and the selection committee and factor in Coyle's rumored interest in other AD jobs around the country I assume that the hire was forced down Coyle's throat. If you ask me - Coyle had little choice on this hire for political/racial reasons. ...and the moment Ben was hired the first 2 years were sacrificed on the alter of their gods.

Still, I like Ben, and hope we can give him the time he needs to be successful because I believe he has the ability to get it back on track (lucky for us and no thanks to the idiots making decisions at the U).
Joan Gabel

I do like Ben though....I think personally he has got it. Can he coach? We'll see.
 



Bunyan

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Almost no coach gets fired two years in. His freshman class looks to have a ton of potential. And he's signed the highest rated recruit in 20 years who hasn't even touched the floor yet. This is the post of someone who cannot see past their own nose.
This team finished dead last (14th) in the BiG10 last year, and will, more than likely, be in the bottom three again this season. They will have been in the bottom three of the BIG10 for four consecutive years at years end. They are not competitive. That's the facts. and bringing in a good recruit will not move the needle at all. Dump the AD and hire one that wants to spend money to bring in top notch coaching staffs.
 

stocker08

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This team finished dead last (14th) in the BiG10 last year, and will, more than likely, be in the bottom three again this season. They will have been in the bottom three of the BIG10 for four consecutive years at years end. They are not competitive. That's the facts. and bringing in a good recruit will not move the needle at all. Dump the AD and hire one that wants to spend money to bring in top notch coaching staffs.

So Ben Johnson gets credit for Pitino's last two seasons? And how does recruiting not move the needle? Are you saying that the players on the court don't matter?

Bad takes all around.
 

formerlybis

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Here's what they're doing well:

-They are #3 in the country in the amount of defensive FT attempts per possession (i.e., they are good at not fouling shooters). The half-empty take would be that it's a sign of under-aggression.
-They're also relatively good (#51) at keeping the effective FG% (which adjusts for made 3s) of the opponent down - this is a byproduct of being good at defensive 2P% (#41).

Those are pretty good things to lay a foundation on defensively. If they could keep those stats where they are and make a concerted effort on the defensive glass (where they are currently the opposite of elite) they will be a good defense.
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy

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So Ben Johnson gets credit for Pitino's last two seasons? And how does recruiting not move the needle? Are you saying that the players on the court don't matter?

Bad takes all around.
I’m starting to get the sense carrington will never be more than he has already shown (a spotty shooter with decent defense). He won’t grow into a slasher / penetrator…that would already be part of who he is as a ball player. Example: Henley struggles when attacking, but he has a mindset to go to the hole and attack. Carrington settles for treys all the time and never goes to the hole.

Payne should leave.

I guess the program is so bad, coupled with fan empathy that even if young guys play good…they will most likely transfer to a school with a real shot to make a run. The U has turned into a feeder school for other real power 5 schools.

Sad but true due to the transfer portal.
 



topos

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We are way past the point with Whalen (should have been gone 2 years ago). She has lost all of her recruits from classes 2018, 2019, 2020 and no recruits outside of MN will touch her or the MN program. Other D1 coaches smile when asked about Whalen's coaching ability. She is stuck with recruiting locals and foreign players now.

As for Johnson, his time is ticking. He cannot attract enough talent and what talent he does get, he does not seem to utilize them to the best of their abilities. Should be his last year IMO. He's no PJ Fleck.
Ben Johnson deserves at least four years if Richard Pitino got eight years. It would be silly and shortsighted to cut bait before his first full recruiting class reaches "upperclassman" status.

This is BJ's dream job, and he works his tail off. I'm confident he will figure it out as the season progresses. If I could bet on it, I would wager heavily that come March, the conversation on GH will be very optimistic due to improved play, a better/more fluid scheme, and adding more solid prospects to a much-improved core in 2023/2024.
 

Dupreefor3

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This team finished dead last (14th) in the BiG10 last year, and will, more than likely, be in the bottom three again this season. They will have been in the bottom three of the BIG10 for four consecutive years at years end. They are not competitive. That's the facts. and bringing in a good recruit will not move the needle at all. Dump the AD and hire one that wants to spend money to bring in top notch coaching staffs.
So were blaming Ben for the end of the Pitino era? Ben's salary is more than what Craig Smith is getting at Utah, you can certainly argue whether or not he was the right choice, but it certainly wasn't done on the cheap.
 

Spaulding!No!

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Yep gotta give him time. Soon, the fans and the building will be blamed by the staff. If the occurs well it’s taps.
 

stocker08

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I’m starting to get the sense carrington will never be more than he has already shown (a spotty shooter with decent defense). He won’t grow into a slasher / penetrator…that would already be part of who he is as a ball player. Example: Henley struggles when attacking, but he has a mindset to go to the hole and attack. Carrington settles for treys all the time and never goes to the hole.

Payne should leave.

I guess the program is so bad, coupled with fan empathy that even if young guys play good…they will most likely transfer to a school with a real shot to make a run. The U has turned into a feeder school for other real power 5 schools.

Sad but true due to the transfer portal.

Stepping up in competition from high school to college takes time for most players. Any conclusions on the freshman at this point are baseless.

The rest of your post is so lousy that I can only assume that you are either trolling...or you are a manic depressive. Your moniker suggests troll.
 

WoodburyTim

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You have to patient and it's too early to quit on this team or Johnson, but man it is tough to find anything to be remotely optimistic about here. Payne can be fun to watch, so that is one thing I guess. I just hoped he doesn't get as bored and frustrated with this program as everyone else.

Battle last night looked like he just didn't care. He would jog to his spot on the wing and not even move his feet. Just sort of stand there until it was time to jog back the other way. I'll admit I pretty much just watched him the whole game(I bet he would score more than 14.5 points:cry:) and to see your top offensive option just sort of stand there and watch was odd. Maybe he was just frustrated about the two charges, but I thought he looked extremely disinterested.
 

cjbfbp

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Ben Johnson deserves at least four years if Richard Pitino got eight years. It would be silly and shortsighted to cut bait before his first full recruiting class reaches "upperclassman" status.

This is BJ's dream job, and he works his tail off. I'm confident he will figure it out as the season progresses. If I could bet on it, I would wager heavily that come March, the conversation on GH will be very optimistic due to improved play, a better/more fluid scheme, and adding more solid prospects to a much-improved core in 2023/2024.

I despise Richard Pitino but we have to concede some things here:

1) In his first year, Pitino's team won 25 games and the NIT;
2) In his second year, he had a disappointing season but it still was a winning season;
3) In his third year, he had an astonishingly bad year;
4) But, in his fourth season, he had possibly the best basketball year of this century;
5) From there, it was mostly downhill but he did have one more good season;
6) Unlike the idiot AD who made Pitino too expensive to fire for about his first five years, Coyle knows better.

If Johnson has nothing but four lousy years to begin his tenure, he should be fired. Many, if not most, programs would fire a coach after three lousy years and some would do it after two. Ben won't have any of the historical factors mentioned above that kept Pitino hanging on for 8 years.

As far as "This is BJ's dream job, and he works his tail off," well, who cares? As an old boss of mine used to say: "It doesn't matter how hard you work if you don't accomplish much of anything." If Ben's dream becomes a long nightmare for everyone else, he has to go.
 


howeda7

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Almost no coach gets fired two years in. His freshman class looks to have a ton of potential. And he's signed the highest rated recruit in 20 years who hasn't even touched the floor yet. This is the post of someone who cannot see past their own nose.
Yes. He gets next year unless something happens off the court. But year 3 is NCAA tournament or we move on, IMO.
 

cjbfbp

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Yes. He gets next year unless something happens off the court. But year 3 is NCAA tournament or we move on, IMO.

My own personal feeling (which is purely based on intuition) is that he wouldn't be fired after three years unless he has three straight losing years. 4 years with no NCAA tournament might do it.
 

ecoperson

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On your 2nd point, Betts didn't commit to Minnesota until July 1, which is well after most of the portal recruiting was done. They took a very small 6 foot guard from Dartmouth in Samuels who has never shot above 38% from the field, 31% from 3, and averaged about 2 assists a game and less than a steal per game. I feel like that's 3 scholarships between Samuels, Ramberg, and a very young Betts that you couldn't have any reasonable expectations of being rotation players.

On 1 and 3, I kind of equate energy and effort to whatever the culture allegedly is. I got in an argument on this board because I didn't feel this team played particularly hard last year. I didn't think their effort stood out above other Big Ten teams and could point to a team like PSU as playing hard (to my eye) more consistently than Minnesota. You could point to some really great efforts (at Michigan State) and some really terrible ones (at Penn State). That's not to say the effort was usually bad or anything just that it wasn't out of the ordinary praise worthy good. It's not really a surprise to me that the energy and effort is being questioned because I didn't think it was there consistently last year when the culture was allegedly set. I agree with you that something could have been set in terms of practice habits or meeting room habits or how to carry yourself on campus, but the on the floor/in game stuff didn't seem to establish anything about how Minnesota plays under Ben Johnson.
I would have liked to get some more talent in the portal last year. Its not like Johnson didn't try. As a coach completing his first year after coaching a last place team, he just wasn't able to sell the program or playing time to players in the portal. When he wasn't successful, he didn't cry or throw scholarships at more marginal depth talent like Samuels. I applaud him for that.

We disagreed on this last year. The ONLY reason that they did as well as they did last year was BECAUSE of effort. It wasn't until players started getting injuries and COVID that the effort fell off. THAT is what led them to more losses later in the season. They didn't have the energy to keep up the effort.
 

Bad Gopher

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Yes. He gets next year unless something happens off the court. But year 3 is NCAA tournament or we move on, IMO.
It's typically not cool to only give a coach three years, but the kicker is how well or poorly a team does. Last year was a tie for last place. This year, they're picked to finish in last place, and they look to be fulfilling that. The difficult hypothetical is: after two last-place finishes, they show some improvement in year three, maybe even avoiding Weakling Wednesday. The roster will be improved with the well-regarded recruits coming in, so that's not all that unlikely. I think it would be difficult to dump him at that point if the team was on a perceived upswing. As Coyle has done with Whalen, he's going to give his own hires every opportunity and ample time.

The aching thing is this: it was past time for the U to move on from Pitino, but his replacement has underperformed him--both in the starts to their respective tenures as well as in comparison to how Pitino would have done had he been retained.
 
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ecoperson

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You think Battle isn't smart enough to realize if he doesn't score 30 we can't win? That's a lot of pressure he's putting himself. Why does he think that? Because we have no team offense, no discernable plan to attack the opponent. I mean it looks like the plan is for Garcia and Battle to showcase themselves...coaching has not told us differently by any coaching actions.
We can't win if Battle THINKS that he needs to score 30 to win. A veteran player like Battle should be smart enough to know that he could help the team in other ways in addition to scoring.
 

GFBfan

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I’m starting to get the sense carrington will never be more than he has already shown (a spotty shooter with decent defense). He won’t grow into a slasher / penetrator…that would already be part of who he is as a ball player. Example: Henley struggles when attacking, but he has a mindset to go to the hole and attack. Carrington settles for treys all the time and never goes to the hole.

Payne should leave.

I guess the program is so bad, coupled with fan empathy that even if young guys play good…they will most likely transfer to a school with a real shot to make a run. The U has turned into a feeder school for other real power 5 schools.

Sad but true due to the transfer portal.
The only thing that is sad is your entire post.
 

cheeseheadgophfan

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We are way past the point with Whalen (should have been gone 2 years ago). She has lost all of her recruits from classes 2018, 2019, 2020 and no recruits outside of MN will touch her or the MN program. Other D1 coaches smile when asked about Whalen's coaching ability. She is stuck with recruiting locals and foreign players now.

As for Johnson, his time is ticking. He cannot attract enough talent and what talent he does get, he does not seem to utilize them to the best of their abilities. Should be his last year IMO. He's no PJ Fleck.
This is ridiculous....Whalen's freshman class this year was basically top 10-20 in the country. You've got to give her a chance for these players to play....I don't know about her coaching ability, but I doubt you've had a lot of conversations with D1 coaches about her ability.

As for Johnson, I'm as frustrated as anyone, but to say that he can't attract enough talent when he just signed the best recruiting class in a long long time, seems a bit short-sighted.
 

topos

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I despise Richard Pitino but we have to concede some things here:

1) In his first year, Pitino's team won 25 games and the NIT;
2) In his second year, he had a disappointing season but it still was a winning season;
3) In his third year, he had an astonishingly bad year;
4) But, in his fourth season, he had possibly the best basketball year of this century;
5) From there, it was mostly downhill but he did have one more good season;
6) Unlike the idiot AD who made Pitino too expensive to fire for about his first five years, Coyle knows better.

If Johnson has nothing but four lousy years to begin his tenure, he should be fired. Many, if not most, programs would fire a coach after three lousy years and some would do it after two. Ben won't have any of the historical factors mentioned above that kept Pitino hanging on for 8 years.

As far as "This is BJ's dream job, and he works his tail off," well, who cares? As an old boss of mine used to say: "It doesn't matter how hard you work if you don't accomplish much of anything." If Ben's dream becomes a long nightmare for everyone else, he has to go.
I agree. The point is hard work tends to pay in arrears. If, after four years, the program is a mess, he should be fired. But it's not year four. We're seven games into year two, and people in this thread are throwing in the towel already. It's incredibly short-sighted.

I said in my post he deserves to see his current freshmen as upperclassmen. I don't think that is too unreasonable of a leash for a new coach.
 

ecoperson

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1) The "newbies" (if you mean the freshmen) aren't the primary problem.

2) Of course you disagree on the roster because you appear to be psychologically incapable of criticizing our coaches' decisions even when it's obvious they deserve it. You think that accelerating a scholarship to a redshirted high school senior-to-be whose only other P6 offer was from Nebraska was a great move? I hope that move isn't one he repeats in the future. At the very least Johnson should have used that scholarship to get another point guard or combo guard from the portal. There were plenty of them available and chances are that person couldn't have been any worse than Samuels.

3) Mark Twain once said that "patriotism is the last refuge of scoundrels." It occurs to me that "culture" may be the last refuge of apologists and bullshitters.
1. Newbies include Garcia and Cooper. I have been most disappointed in Garcia's effort this season. I thought he was ready to get after it.

2. I have previously shared that I am not a fan of Johnson not using every scholarship. Betts was getting a lot of attention from some bigger names over the summer. Many expected the offers to start rolling in. I am fine using a scholarship on Betts... especially if Johnson wasn't going to use them all anyway.

The fact of the matter is that Johnson was not able to sell any players in the portal on his program. Sadly, Samuels has turned out to be a disappointment. After watching a couple of games of his last year- especially the Stanford game, I thought that he might offer a little stability. I have been wrong thus far.

3. You are putting too much effort into this. Culture is just another word about what the team identity will be, how they go about practice, etc. It gives the players, recruits, and fans an idea about what the team is trying to achieve. I have been expecting this team to show some consistent effort- like early in the 21-22 season. I have not seen it. I am at a loss for an explanation.
 

ecoperson

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effort is missing for large chunks of the game
BJ missed on Cooper/Samuels. Cooper can play in the big ten. But he is not a 35 plus minute guy on a big ten team. Im honestly scared of what big ten guards will do to him.
Carrington/Henley just need to let the game slow down a bit. They both show flashes for moments but then will go 5 minutes where they are non-existent. As the year goes they will settle in.....i hope
Garcia/Battle just simply need to play better. They need to play like the best 2 players on a big ten team
This offense is a joke.....run a damn set. It always looks promising until the first pass. then we have 4 guys standing around watching! do some dang coaching BJ! get the white board out! do something

This season is not going to go very good. but the team still needs to stick together, have fun, and show some dang effort! And the freshman need to continue to get meaningful minutes
Cooper would likely not be given as much crap if he was hitting his FTs. He has been a stat sheet stuffer which shows me that he is at least trying. He may not have the most lateral quickness on D but he is running a clean game as a starting PG on the offensive end.

Johnson and Thorson have enough coaching experience that I am sure that they are not just throwing their hands up and letting them just play pick-up ball. It is on the players to run the sets. If the players are not talented enough to do so, the coaching staff has to simplify them so that the players can be effective.
 




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