What is the biggest reason we are 10th in B1G standings?

[minngg]

Stars matter until the game starts. Then a recruiting class is judged on wins and losses and actual play of said players.

 

[920/414 Gopher]

NM

 

[Gold Vision]

Recruiting is your ability to recruit. It's a pretty simple concept. Player evaluation, development, and retention is a separate argument.

All your arguments are moving targets to fit your own agenda. Especially considering all the issues with the 2009 class. Your agenda seems to be to bitch about anything and everything and turn it into a conversation about being "realistic" or setting higher expectations. Whatever entertains you I guess, I can't imagine how miserable having that outlook is all the time. I bet you are the hit of the party. We are wired different, that's for sure.

 

[minngg]

Wrong. Recruiting is talent evaluation based on observation. Not by a website.

 

[zambam]

Recruiting is your ability to recruit. It's a pretty simple concept. Player evaluation, development, and retention is a separate argument.

All your arguments are moving targets to fit your own agenda. Especially considering all the issues with the 2009 class. Your agenda seems to be to bitch about anything and everything and turn it into a conversation about being "realistic" or setting higher expectations. Whatever entertains you I guess, I can't imagine how miserable having that outlook is all the time. I bet you are the hit of the party. We are wired different, that's for sure.

HOW DARE YOU QUESTION THE ALL-KNOWING MINNGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

 

[minngg]

Recruiting is your ability to recruit. It's a pretty simple concept. Player evaluation, development, and retention is a separate argument.

All your arguments are moving targets to fit your own agenda. Especially considering all the issues with the 2009 class. Your agenda seems to be to bitch about anything and everything and turn it into a conversation about being "realistic" or setting higher expectations. Whatever entertains you I guess, I can't imagine how miserable having that outlook is all the time. I bet you are the hit of the party. We are wired different, that's for sure.

Your agenda seems to be to accept mediocrity and make excuses for failure. My life is great because I demand success and achievement. Let me just say this. Any idiot on this board that attacks another person because of their beliefs on a basketball coach is a hell of a lot more miserable than me.

 

[minngg]

HOW DARE YOU QUESTION THE ALL-KNOWING MINNGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Tubby is all knowing and perfect. Just ask you.

 

[zambam]

Tubby is all knowing and perfect. Just ask you.

False.

 

[minngg]

False.

I have seen on this board by Tubby apologists...

Cobbs transfers....good riddance, he transferred because he wasn't going to play anyway....now.....if we had Cobbs and he wasn't homesick just think how good we would be.

Joseph transfers....good riddance.....Devoe is a cancer and the team is better off without him....now....if Tubby had not had Joseph transfer we would have won a lot more games.

No matter what happens to Tubby it isn't his fault. Bad luck. Last year we have Trevor we win 6 Big Ten games. This year if we had Trevor we would be contenders or in the top half of the league. Really? Why? Who have we added to make us that much better? Who on this team is so much better than what we had last year? For a while it was Coleman.....huge difference, now....scoreless in 4 straight games. Now it is Dre.

Now we are reduced to another wait until next year. Wait until these players develop. Well, I don't see a lot of high ceilings with the talent we have. I guess that makes me a Badger fan. I refuse to kiss Tubby's butt. He won a national championship...well so did Larry Coker and Dennis Erickson and they got fired.

There will be a day when you'll say, poor Tubby he never did win here, but he was a hell of a coach. We were lucky to have him.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

I have seen on this board by Tubby apologists...

Cobbs transfers....good riddance, he transferred because he wasn't going to play anyway....now.....if we had Cobbs and he wasn't homesick just think how good we would be.

Joseph transfers....good riddance.....Devoe is a cancer and the team is better off without him....now....if Tubby had not had Joseph transfer we would have won a lot more games.

No matter what happens to Tubby it isn't his fault. Bad luck. Last year we have Trevor we win 6 Big Ten games. This year if we had Trevor we would be contenders or in the top half of the league. Really? Why? Who have we added to make us that much better? Who on this team is so much better than what we had last year? For a while it was Coleman.....huge difference, now....scoreless in 4 straight games. Now it is Dre.

Now we are reduced to another wait until next year. Wait until these players develop. Well, I don't see a lot of high ceilings with the talent we have. I guess that makes me a Badger fan. I refuse to kiss Tubby's butt. He won a national championship...well so did Larry Coker and Dennis Erickson and they got fired.

There will be a day when you'll say, poor Tubby he never did win here, but he was a hell of a coach. We were lucky to have him.

I hope you're not referring to me. I only assume you are because I am the one who brought up Cobbs and Devoe.

I was annoyed when Cobbs left. I thought he looked ok and I wanted a PG of the future. I didn't think he was going to be as good as he is now, but I was no where near "good riddance".
Devoe....I thought it was inevitable. I'm not giving Tubby a pass on the Devoe thing, but it seemed to be inevitable. He's a good player, it hurt, but what can you do except look to the future.

I've also never said that it wasn't Tubby's fault that they left. I'm just saying that them leaving is a bigger factor in our down year this year than Tubby not being able to recruit. For the 2340502nd time, it's the attrition, not the recruiting that is hurting us this season. You can put a lot of the blame of the attrition on Tubby.

No offense, but of course you don't see the high ceilings of players like Joe Coleman. You are obsessed with hating Tubby. You ignore the fact that Coleman and Hollins have both had their moments and they were both as good/better than Devoe and Cobbs as FR. It's not a gurantee, but they look good. You can agree to disagree on that, but you disagreeing is obvious as can be.

 

[920/414 Gopher]

For the 2340502nd time, it's the attrition, not the recruiting that is hurting us this season. You can put a lot of the blame of the attrition on Tubby.

+1,000. This has been my argument from the get go of this whole fiasco, but you just simplified it into terms that are really tough to misunderstand.


...or so I thought.

 

[zambam]

I have seen on this board by Tubby apologists...

Cobbs transfers....good riddance, he transferred because he wasn't going to play anyway....now.....if we had Cobbs and he wasn't homesick just think how good we would be.

Joseph transfers....good riddance.....Devoe is a cancer and the team is better off without him....now....if Tubby had not had Joseph transfer we would have won a lot more games.

No matter what happens to Tubby it isn't his fault. Bad luck. Last year we have Trevor we win 6 Big Ten games. This year if we had Trevor we would be contenders or in the top half of the league. Really? Why? Who have we added to make us that much better? Who on this team is so much better than what we had last year? For a while it was Coleman.....huge difference, now....scoreless in 4 straight games. Now it is Dre.

Now we are reduced to another wait until next year. Wait until these players develop. Well, I don't see a lot of high ceilings with the talent we have. I guess that makes me a Badger fan. I refuse to kiss Tubby's butt. He won a national championship...well so did Larry Coker and Dennis Erickson and they got fired.

There will be a day when you'll say, poor Tubby he never did win here, but he was a hell of a coach. We were lucky to have him.

Um............ The only part of this that I have come close to saying is that Dre is going to be a great plaer. You seriously know nothing about what I have said, do you?

I hope you're not referring to me. I only assume you are because I am the one who brought up Cobbs and Devoe.

I was annoyed when Cobbs left. I thought he looked ok and I wanted a PG of the future. I didn't think he was going to be as good as he is now, but I was no where near "good riddance".
Devoe....I thought it was inevitable. I'm not giving Tubby a pass on the Devoe thing, but it seemed to be inevitable. He's a good player, it hurt, but what can you do except look to the future.

I've also never said that it wasn't Tubby's fault that they left. I'm just saying that them leaving is a bigger factor in our down year this year than Tubby not being able to recruit. For the 2340502nd time, it's the attrition, not the recruiting that is hurting us this season. You can put a lot of the blame of the attrition on Tubby.

No offense, but of course you don't see the high ceilings of players like Joe Coleman. You are obsessed with hating Tubby. You ignore the fact that Coleman and Hollins have both had their moments and they were both as good/better than Devoe and Cobbs as FR. It's not a gurantee, but they look good. You can agree to disagree on that, but you disagreeing is obvious as can be.

Nah don't worry, he was trying to attack me, but failed miserably.

 

[minngg]

Um............ The only part of this that I have come close to saying is that Dre is going to be a great plaer. You seriously know nothing about what I have said, do you?


Nah don't worry, he was trying to attack me, but failed miserably.

Really wasn't even thinking of you. Sorry. What above haven't you heard from Tubby supporters? Where am I wrong? Where is your substance other than to say you didn't specifically say those things which I never said you did. They were said and I don't remember people like you disagreeing or calling them out like you do me.

 

[Whathavewedone]

"Huge" investment? Compared to whom? Augsburg? Sure. Compared to his peers (Big Ten coaches) Tubby has a slightly-above-average salary.

A roughly $2 million annual salary isn't huge to you? Dang I wish I had your cash. And that puts him in the top 10-12 of coaching salaries depending on the source you look at. The 2 B1G coaches ahead of him are winning conf. titles and going to FF's.

 

[Whathavewedone]

Man, it seems that turning the program around is easy! According to whathavewedone, all we need to do is demand more and it will happen. I think I'm going to buy a lottery ticket today after work, and if I don't win, I'm gonna get pissed at it, rip it up, and throw it in the garbage because, damn it, I demand more! Then the next time I buy one, I'll win for sure.

MAN, I wonder how much you'd have to say to me if you hadn't placed me on ignore. But that's simply a truism, you have to DEMAND more to get more. And if you accept less, you WILL get less. And while it's highly unscientific, judging by the way far more people on this forum attack ANY criticism of Tubby no matter how legit, the surmise has to be they're okay with sub-par performance for the dollar.

 

[Whathavewedone]

Not that I'm surprised by your response, but come on. No one here is in favor of accepting mediocrity year in and year out, but what do you expect? A very young team without it's best player to dominate the toughest conference in the league? How about a very young team without a handful of the its top recruits over the past few years? Do you think they should be capable of exceptional wins and constantly solid play? I get the high expectations you have, but fans' acceptance of mediocrity is not why the Gophers are in the position they are in. Get over it.

Many people post in your vein. But at some point you HAVE to stop accepting the alibis and excuses.
If the job perforance were commensurate with the investment, then injuries would cause a drop from contention to middle of the pack, instead of from the middle to near the bottom.

 

[scher215]

A roughly $2 million annual salary isn't huge to you? Dang I wish I had your cash. And that puts him in the top 10-12 of coaching salaries depending on the source you look at. The 2 B1G coaches ahead of him are winning conf. titles and going to FF's.

The 2 big 10 coaches ahead of him? That's funny considering he has the 5th highest salary (shouldn't 4 be ahead of him?)

At least we know the real reason you are mad, basketball coaches in general are overpaid. They should make $60K just like me! That's only fair!!!!!!!

2 mil is not that much for a college basketball coach. Deal with it.

 

[GophersInIowa]

Your agenda seems to be to accept mediocrity and make excuses for failure. My life is great because I demand success and achievement. Let me just say this. Any idiot on this board that attacks another person because of their beliefs on a basketball coach is a hell of a lot more miserable than me.

Let me put it this way, just because I say nice things about a woman doesn't mean I want to marry her. That's essentially how you take anyone's comments defending Tubby in any way. Just because they defend something he does or has done, doesn't mean they accept mediocrity. Hell, in this case, I don't even think people are defending Tubby necessarily.

Do you not see the irony in your last sentence?

 

[dpodoll68]

A roughly $2 million annual salary isn't huge to you?

Where did I say or even insinuate that? Please cite it for me. And of course, a $2 million annual salary is huge to me. A $50,000 annual salary is huge to me. Then again, I am not a major conference Division I men's basketball coach. It would also be a huge salary to Tubby, since he doesn't make that much.

Dang I wish I had your cash.

Trust me - you don't.

And that puts him in the top 10-12 of coaching salaries depending on the source you look at.

I'm not sure what your source is, but it is wrong.

The 2 B1G coaches ahead of him are winning conf. titles and going to FF's.

He has at least 4 Big Ten coaches ahead of him, if not more. I'd also love to hear more about all of these Final Fours Bo Ryan is going to. I must've been comatose when those happened. I would also be interested in hearing about the conference championships and Final Fours Tom Crean is winning/attending.

 

[minngg]

Let me put it this way, just because I say nice things about a woman doesn't mean I want to marry her. That's essentially how you take anyone's comments defending Tubby in any way. Just because they defend something he does or has done, doesn't mean they accept mediocrity. Hell, in this case, I don't even think people are defending Tubby necessarily.

Do you not see the irony in your last sentence?

No I don't. Responding to attacks is different than initiating them. I am not calling people idiots for their opinions on Tubby. I have given the U a ton of money in both tuition and gifts. I don't need someone questioning my right to opine on our current coach and calling me a badger fan. It is juvenile.

 

[Whathavewedone]

Where did I say or even insinuate that? Please cite it for me. And of course, a $2 million annual salary is huge to me. A $50,000 annual salary is huge to me. Then again, I am not a major conference Division I men's basketball coach. It would also be a huge salary to Tubby, since he doesn't make that much.



Trust me - you don't.



I'm not sure what your source is, but it is wrong.



He has at least 4 Big Ten coaches ahead of him, if not more. I'd also love to hear more about all of these Final Fours Bo Ryan is going to. I must've been comatose when those happened. I would also be interested in hearing about the conference championships and Final Fours Tom Crean is winning/attending.

I said 2-TWO coaches ahead of him. Izzo and Matta. You going to tell me they haven't wo the conf. or been to FF's? Sorry if my source was incorrect, but it shows Crean well below Tubby, and Bo Ryan too.

And you posted "huge investment?". In that form and context I could only take it to mean you didn't think it was.

 

[Whathavewedone]

The 2 big 10 coaches ahead of him? That's funny considering he has the 5th highest salary (shouldn't 4 be ahead of him?)

At least we know the real reason you are mad, basketball coaches in general are overpaid. They should make $60K just like me! That's only fair!!!!!!!

2 mil is not that much for a college basketball coach. Deal with it.

Source? link?

 

[Moonlight]

Hey - we've improved! We're tied for 8th. If Iowa loses tonight, we'll be in a 4 way tie for 7th which is probably the best we can finish. We're not catching the higher teams with the possible exception of Purdue.

 

[scher215]

Source? link?

Big ten coach salaries are not widely available. I know Doogie (as well as others) have posted on twitter where his salary ranks. I can search through old tweets if you'd like?

 

[BleedGopher]

Paul Allen talked about this poll and thread on KFAN today during his interview with Nadine.

Go Gophers!!

 

[Whathavewedone]

I have googled and yahooed etc. The best source I can find actually doesn't even list Tubby for some reason, but it would check his $2 mill in at 12th just behind UCLA's Ben Howland. And 3rd in the B1G.
Please post a link if you have something more accurate.

 

[dpodoll68]

And you posted "huge investment?". In that form and context I could only take it to mean you didn't think it was.

I posted the context. Please read thoroughly before posting.

 

[gopheraschells]

I say it is 70% on Tubby, 30% on bad luck with trevor's injury. We weren't exactly world beaters when we had trevor this year. I remember being just as pissed off with lack of ball movement, sub patterns, and execution when we had him. Obviously it hurts to lose your far and away best player but the lousy disinterested coaching has been consistent throughout the year

 

[GophersInIowa]

Luckily there are facts that show a correlation between stars and college success. Definitely are outliers. But I'd bet 75% of players drafted last year (meaning they had college success) were 4 or 5 star recruits. I am sure Dpo has actual numbers as he is a big proponent of the stars system on the football board. But yes, stars do matter.

Didn't look at the whole draft, just 1st round. 25 college players were taken in the 1st round last year.
5-star: 9
4-star: 7
3-star: 6
no rank: 3

Also, in 2007 and 2008, there was a total of 53 five-star recruits according to Rivals. Of the 53:
27 ended up being 1st round picks
9 were 2nd round picks
15 went undrafted or probably won't be drafted
2 have a chance of being drafted (Williams Buford and Jamychal Green)

Of course, being undrafted doesn't necessarily mean their college career was a bust, either. Guys like Austin Freeman, Samardo Samuels, and Scotty Hopson were very good college players.

So far from these two years, 51% have been 1st rounders, and 68% have been drafted. There's two #1 overall draft picks in the group, one #2, #3, #4, #5, and #6. The 2007 class was ridiculous.

 

[GophersInIowa]

I say it is 70% on Tubby, 30% on bad luck with trevor's injury. We weren't exactly world beaters when we had trevor this year. I remember being just as pissed off with lack of ball movement, sub patterns, and execution when we had him. Obviously it hurts to lose your far and away best player but the lousy disinterested coaching has been consistent throughout the year

So zero blame goes to the players? You know, the guys who actually play?

I'm not disagreeing with some of the things you are saying, but it also comes down to execution