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What grade would you give this class: Jamal Mashburn Jr., Martice Mitchell, David Mutaf, Both Gach, Liam Robbins and Brandon Johnson?
Gach is not comparable to Suggs, that is a huge reach. I'm very happy with the Gach signing, but Suggs is on another level.A solid B. If both transfers are able to play this year, then the grade is even better, close to an A (Minnesota standards). Who cares where these players are from. To me Mashburn is just as good as Walton, Robbins is just as good or better than Garcia, and Both is comparable with Suggs.
I wouldn't say that Robbins and Gach fell into our laps, but we did have some pretty tight ins with Gach being from Austin and Robbins having relatives on the team and coaching staff. Without those connections who knows what happens. I agree, I think it would be everyone's preference to have a full class of quality HS players going into the spring and then replace early leavers and transfers with transfers. I fear what we were able to do this year isn't sustainable.I think A on overall talent (especially if everyone gets eligible) but Pitino seems like he’s grasping for straws every spring. To his credit, he nailed it this time around, but it just doesn’t seem sustainable. Maybe Pitino is ahead of his time w relying on the transfer market, but it doesn’t seem like the optimal way to build a program.
In the end, though, my fear of us finishing last in the BIG is gone, and I can look forward to next season; we should have a competitive squad.
In a sense it is not really a class since they all will not start or finish with the 2020 class, some are added to classes already here.These grades are shockingly high to me, but I guess it's all in how you view the question. If you only look at if from the perspective of talent added to impact the 2020-2021 season, then I can certainly see it as a B. If you only look at it like there was a historically inept job done keeping in state talent home in a year where you could have Suggs, Garica, Dainja, Walton, Carlson (all rated higher than Minnesota's highest rated high school commit) then you can certainly see it as an F. I view the high school recruiting as far more sustainable and the Gophers were below average in the B1G at that before even factoring in another historically great local batch of players. Pitino and staff did a good job of putting a band aid on a bad situation, but it was a bad situation that they created with poor Fall recruiting results and poor play on the court. The biggest get in the class is the nephew of the assistant coach and you obviously cannot count on a relative that can be an impact guy joining the roster every year. Overall, I think people are fairly rating this class high through the prism of 20-21 which is the only year that matters for Pitino but real questions are out there going forward.
Huge advantage. Even more so when they have been together the whole time.I think one of the best parts of this recruiting class is that it is not a bunch of 17/18 year olds. We will have an experienced and mature lineup.
Brandon Johnson is a 5th year guy. Liam Robbins took a post grad year so this is his 4th year out of HS. This is Both Gach's 3rd year out of HS. Mashburn should hopefully be able to contribute 15-20 minutes per night and should be our youngest role player. Mutaf and Mitchell IMO won't be contributors this but are great developmental guys.
Ages of our potential starting lineup:
Marcus Carr - 21
Gabe Kalscheur - 20
Both Gach - 21
Brandon Johnson - 22?
Liam Robbins - 21?
So our youngest starter is a 3 year starter. Not bad.
Agreed, it is somewhat negated by the fact that they are all coming in from different programs and won't have a normal off-season to gel. But I still like it.Huge advantage. Even more so when they have been together the whole time.
Same. The benefits of strength and skill development, travel experience, leadership growth just maturity are all generally greater in a 21 year old versus 18-19.Agreed, it is somewhat negated by the fact that they are all coming in from different programs and won't have a normal off-season to gel. But I still like it.
Great post.I have similar concerns to an earlier post about this model for Pitino feeling unsustainable but in a year where he needed to get a lot done, he added pieces to form a roster that might be good enough to save his job.
There is definitely a benefit to using the transfer market so as to not have to rely on freshmen. Having five (if Robbins gets a waiver) upperclassmen in the starting lineup is rare for a Power 6 school and all are at least relatively proven. I think that establishes a solid floor. And it allows your underclassmen, like Mashburn and Ihnen, to develop in a lower-leverage setting where you can play through some expected inconsistencies.
With that said, the high school recruiting has to be better. Mashburn is a nice get. Mitchell looks like a solid pickup as a longterm play and Mutaf is an unknown.
I don't get my panties in a bunch over Pitino's lack of in-state recruiting, but I do think that lack of success is a symptom of a problem that has been hurting the program for years.
That is his inability to establish and develop good relationships with kids over a period of time and evaluate/project talent. The spring recruiting is a lot more quick and dirty with less competition (still some for the guys they got this spring which is impressive) from guys who have already developed a lot.
I have similar concerns to an earlier post about this model for Pitino feeling unsustainable but in a year where he needed to get a lot done, he added pieces to form a roster that might be good enough to save his job.
There is definitely a benefit to using the transfer market so as to not have to rely on freshmen. Having five (if Robbins gets a waiver) upperclassmen in the starting lineup is rare for a Power 6 school and all are at least relatively proven. I think that establishes a solid floor. And it allows your underclassmen, like Mashburn and Ihnen, to develop in a lower-leverage setting where you can play through some expected inconsistencies.
With that said, the high school recruiting has to be better. Mashburn is a nice get. Mitchell looks like a solid pickup as a longterm play and Mutaf is an unknown.
I don't get my panties in a bunch over Pitino's lack of in-state recruiting, but I do think that lack of success is a symptom of a problem that has been hurting the program for years.
That is his inability to establish and develop good relationships with kids over a period of time and evaluate/project talent. The spring recruiting is a lot more quick and dirty with less competition (still some for the guys they got this spring which is impressive) from guys who have already developed a lot.
I think one of the best parts of this recruiting class is that it is not a bunch of 17/18 year olds. We will have an experienced and mature lineup.
Brandon Johnson is a 5th year guy. Liam Robbins took a post grad year so this is his 4th year out of HS. This is Both Gach's 3rd or 4th year out of HS (Was the year in AZ a post grad year?). Mashburn should hopefully be able to contribute 15-20 minutes per night and should be our youngest role player. Mutaf and Mitchell IMO won't be contributors this but are great developmental guys.
Ages of our potential starting lineup:
Marcus Carr - 21
Gabe Kalscheur - 20
Both Gach - 21
Brandon Johnson - 22?
Liam Robbins - 21?
So our youngest starter is a 3 year starter. Not bad.
Those days are not gone everywhere.This is the Brian Dutcher/SDSU strategy. They found themselves to be young and talented, which made a difference especially in the post season. They deliberately went the transfer route to "get older" and it has had some success. This year would have been a great year to see the theory in practice in the NCAA tournament.
I like talent. I like experience. I like talented experience together, but those days are gone. Will be very interesting to see how this works out, especially with pandemic limitations.
I'm with others that think over reliance on transfers for key roster spots is akin to rolling the dice every year, and I wonder how sustainable it is in the long run.
My concern is that it is going to be another situation where the coaching staff relies too heavily on their starters and doesn't give the bench a chance to grow, unless it's a blowout. With the depth we hopefully have, assuming waivers are granted, I want to see more balance in both the starters and the bench's time-management. It will be interesting to see if unlike previous years, the bench is able to step on the court during meaningful minutes to accelerate their development.