What grade would you give the Gophers 2019 football recruiting class?

[GophersInIowa]

Last year 7th in B1G and 2nd in B1G West.
This year 8th in B1G and 4th in B1G West.

On paper the gap increased in talent and didn't decrease. Obviously, things can still change until Feb.

My opinion is just using the overall ranking doesn't always give you the whole picture. I believe they are still including the two walk-ons for the average rating. Yes, the kicker and long snapper are a part of the class but no matter how good they are, they will bring down the average ranking because they are rated so low.

What I see is that we're signing more guys with better offers. This year we're getting guys with offers from Alabama, Georgia, Texas A&M, Oklahoma, Florida St and others. We're going into Georgia and Texas and getting kids that have Georgia offers and Texas schools offers. They're probably not all committable anymore but they were still talented enough to get an offer at some point from those type of programs. I also don't feel like we're signing as many guys who's next best offer is from a MAC school. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's what it seems to me.

I also really like the balance of the class and that they really did well on the defensive line.

 

[#2Gopher]

Yahoo Sports had winners and losers. Listed Minnesota as one of the winners.

Minnesota: Are things trending up for P.J. Fleck’s program? The Gophers beat Wisconsin in the final weekend of the regular season to get to 6-6 and a berth in the Quick Lane Bowl. Now a day into the early signing period, Minnesota is at No. 33 in Rivals’ rankings.

That No. 33 spot is the highest Minnesota has been in Rivals’ rankings since 2008, when its class was ranked No. 17. The 2019 class includes two four-star recruits and both are from out of state. Defensive back Tyler Nubin is a native of South Elgin, Illinois, and quarterback Jacob Clark, the No. 13 pro-style QB, is from Rockwall, Texas.

 

[Dano564]

1. Until non-Power 5 schools make the playoffs....none of this matters.

2. Too bad we don't play our previous teams; we'd be golden. That was my point, we compare ourselves to ourselves. PJ asked the fanbase to change their best and change expectations. Quit comparing us to 50 + years of futility and expect something bigger!!!

3. We've been told that he's a great recruiter not simply better than what we've had. I don't see that. I see a solid recruiter not a great one. How are we getting out recruited by Purdue when it comes to blue chippers if he is a great recruiter? Is it better than what we've seen recently? Yes. Is it solid? Yes, but I'd hardly call it great.

4. I agree with this to a point. I know our facilities are not ELITE, but they aren't holding us back either. We no longer have to be ashamed and can strut a recruit through it in some regards. If we truly have a "great" recruiter, we shouldn't be middle of the pack in the B!G two years in a row with what we have to offer.

You can stick with he's a "great" recruiter. I'll stick with he's good, but I'll expect more from him until I move him into the "great" category. It's time to raise the bar and expect more; start comparing us to our peers rather than our past!

1. Paint the picture however you like. I really don't care to go into this rabbit hole with you to decide whether ranking in the 30's in average, fair, above average, okay, alright, good, great, splendid, or any other categorization you hope to make.

2. Please provide link to your posts outlining your feelings for the 2007 - 2018 classes so we can assess if you were equally upset about our class rankings.


3. I don't know who's telling you he's "great". Maybe Coyle led you to believe that. I feel he is a "good" recruiter or maybe even "fair" or even "above average". You can choose to disagree. I really don't care. Maybe he's "awful" in your opinion. I'll just keep accepting the top 40 classes for now.

4. Why are you calling him a great recruiter again. You seem to be pushing this more. Maybe your argument is he shouldn't have been hired because he's not a "great" recruiter. Or maybe you feel someone led you to believe he is "great" but then using your opinion to point out he is not "great". If this is the case, it's more of an internal issue between your ears. Even if he was recruiting better, you could still say it's not great. Unless you clearly define rankings which make him "great" up front, Mark Coyle, or whoever betrayed your confidence could have consulted with you then to outline whether PJ was likely to hit that threshold and could have defined what type of recruiter he was at that point. "Great, Good, Okay, Below Average, or "so freaking amazing, he'll sign top 20 classes even though it's only happened 4 times before for schools not named PSU, OSU, or Michigan".

Right now the biggest issue with his class from your analysis is that he isn't recruiting to the level of your own expectations.

 

[Dano564]

My opinion is just using the overall ranking doesn't always give you the whole picture. I believe they are still including the two walk-ons for the average rating. Yes, the kicker and long snapper are a part of the class but no matter how good they are, they will bring down the average ranking because they are rated so low.

What I see is that we're signing more guys with better offers. This year we're getting guys with offers from Alabama, Georgia, Texas A&M, Oklahoma, Florida St and others. We're going into Georgia and Texas and getting kids that have Georgia offers and Texas schools offers. They're probably not all committable anymore but they were still talented enough to get an offer at some point from those type of programs. I also don't feel like we're signing as many guys who's next best offer is from a MAC school. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's what it seems to me.

I also really like the balance of the class and that they really did well on the defensive line.

I agree.
There are many different data sets at play, not to mention as Jerry Kill stated, some of these players are on different trajectories.

A couple guys committed as 3 stars and they might be 4 star level by the time they are here.
Some might drop to 2 star levels.
Some of these dropping could be gaining more offers.

Class recruiting ranking is just a dataset.

Attrition of the class over the next 3 years is a bigger dataset.

Positions we recruited vs need is another data set
If we recruited players in area of need is a bigger set. (Recruiting twenty 5 star TE's would make a great class, but be horrible on the field). Recruiting a 3 star player who plugs a far bigger hole is more important than a 4 star who sits behind your starting QB for 3 years or transfers.

How much the players improve from signing date to their careers on the field is another area. Some develop far more than others.

A lot of different variables / data sets go into whether a class is good or not.

 

[BroncoRedux]

[COLOR=""]College football recruiting: Winners, losers and early rankings from National Signing Day
Let's take a look at the biggest winners and biggest losers from the first day of the Early Signing Period[/COLOR]
Barton Simmons
mugshot by Barton Simmons
@bartonsimmons
18h ago • 5 min read


Big Ten West: Nebraska went 3-for-3 on the targets that were in play on signing day, and the most important was four-star defensive end Ty Robinson, who answers the primary question that Scott Frost was trying to address in this cycle which is defensive line size and physicality. He caps off what has been a productive December close. Joining Nebraska, Purdue has its highest-ranked recruiting class of all time under Jeff Brohm, and PJ Fleck has Minnesota sitting at No. 33, its highest ranking since 2008.

 

[btowngopher]

No one in touch with college football and recruiting hailed Fleck as a GREAT recruiter. It was well known he was recruiting great for MAC standards, but we all wondered how it would translate to the jump up in conferences. Most expected something between Kill and Brewster (who was considered a GREAT recruiter by those in touch). He certainly has lived up to if not exceeded any rational expectations thus far. Only an idiot would grade him based on his own rhetoric of saying he came here to recruit top 25 classes and win championships or whatever he said. If Fleck continues to improve the product in the field I have no doubt top 25 classes will come.

 

[PMWinSTP]

No one in touch with college football and recruiting hailed Fleck as a GREAT recruiter. It was well known he was recruiting great for MAC standards, but we all wondered how it would translate to the jump up in conferences. Most expected something between Kill and Brewster (who was considered a GREAT recruiter by those in touch). He certainly has lived up to if not exceeded any rational expectations thus far. Only an idiot would grade him based on his own rhetoric of saying he came here to recruit top 25 classes and win championships or whatever he said. If Fleck continues to improve the product in the field I have no doubt top 25 classes will come.

https://247sports.com/college/footb...s-best-recruits-at-Western-Michigan-74934520/

https://detroitsportsnation.com/col...n-michigan-starting-recruiting/02-2015/25208/

There certainly was chatter about how good of recruiter Fleck was...and many GHers pushing for Fleck as the next HC were all over this as well.

That said, I completely agree with you that elevated results on the field are what will allow him to have the opportunity to get classes inside of the top 30. If he does not have that, he will find it hard very quickly to even have classes in the top 40. I personally don't think Gophs need classes consistently at the top 25 level to win the B1G West, be in a position to win the B1G, or consistently be a top 20 ranked team.

 

[BroncoRedux]

https://247sports.com/college/footb...s-best-recruits-at-Western-Michigan-74934520/

https://detroitsportsnation.com/col...n-michigan-starting-recruiting/02-2015/25208/

There certainly was chatter about how good of recruiter Fleck was...and many GHers pushing for Fleck as the next HC were all over this as well.

That said, I completely agree with you that elevated results on the field are what will allow him to have the opportunity to get classes inside of the top 30. If he does not have that, he will find it hard very quickly to even have classes in the top 40. I personally don't think Gophs need classes consistently at the top 25 level to win the B1G West, be in a position to win the B1G, or consistently be a top 20 ranked team.

I agree with what you say with the exception of winning the BIG. There I think they will need that kind of top 20 talent to beat OSU, Michigan, PSU, and MSU.

 

[btowngopher]

https://247sports.com/college/footb...s-best-recruits-at-Western-Michigan-74934520/

https://detroitsportsnation.com/col...n-michigan-starting-recruiting/02-2015/25208/

There certainly was chatter about how good of recruiter Fleck was...and many GHers pushing for Fleck as the next HC were all over this as well.

That said, I completely agree with you that elevated results on the field are what will allow him to have the opportunity to get classes inside of the top 30. If he does not have that, he will find it hard very quickly to even have classes in the top 40. I personally don't think Gophs need classes consistently at the top 25 level to win the B1G West, be in a position to win the B1G, or consistently be a top 20 ranked team.

Like I said he recruited great at WMU, but he most wondered if it how it would translate to the next level. I certainly do not recall a bunch of college football figure heads touting his recruiting reputation like they did for Brewster. Brewster had recruited for the big boys of college football and proven himself, Fleck had not yet.

 

[btowngopher]

I agree with what you say with the exception of winning the BIG. There I think they will need that kind of top 20 talent to beat OSU, Michigan, PSU, and MSU.

Wisconsin managed to do it without top 20 classes. Plus he said the B1G West.

 

[EG#9]

I went with a B. I really think this is a solid class and I feel like people are overlooking the fact that the instate crop of talent was incredibly weak this year. There were only two kids in the entire state that would have been above Minnesota's composite average recruit (and that's held down by the K/LS signings). By contrast, the state of Iowa had like 8 kids that were all rated above the 3rd highest Minnesota kid the last time I looked. That said, the Gophers/PJ don't get a pass for missing on the two big time kids in Minnesota.

For the negatives, I feel like if you gave PJ truth serum he would tell you that they were hoping to land an ever higher regarded qb, one highly regarded rb, one more highly regarded receiver, one more highly regarded offensive lineman, that the Bargy issue really hurt at de, and that they would have liked to add a safety prospect. Obviously, nobody ever gets everything they want but I think those would be the biggest unfulfilled wishes/needs in this class. I personally am a little skeptical of Clark at qb specifically because he doesn't move all that well and I think a more athletic guy is a better fit for this offense. Morgan isn't a runner, but he moves well in the pocket and looks like an athlete on roll outs and such.

On the plus side this as an extremely deep class to me. Compare our bottom 8 or so recruits to Purdue, Wisconsin, and Iowa and I think you will find a lot better offers for our kids. In some cases those schools have guys rated similarly or higher than some of our recruits despite having mostly MAC type offers. The other thing I love is that some of the prospects that seemed pretty "meh" when they committed got a lot of attention late. Supposedly Oregon was trying to flip DeAngelo Carter late, Solomon Brown had Iowa putting the full court press on him, Donald Willis allegedly had a bunch of B1G schools, and James Gordon most notably had FSU and Miami both make late runs at him. It's a great sign to me that the staff was able to identify some of these kids and get them committed early. It's also a good sign that they were able to keep the attrition to a minimum despite another poor season on the field. I think some in this thread have already gotten a little spoiled by our uptick in recruiting. It should be considered at least a nice class IMHO.

 

[Oregon Gopher]

What is our rank within our conference? A solid B would be top 5. An A would be top 2-3. Again that's just my opinion. Your expectations are lower than mine, that's fine.

So if you had the 5th rank class in any conference it would be a B?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[John Galt]

I went with a B. I really think this is a solid class and I feel like people are overlooking the fact that the instate crop of talent was incredibly weak this year. There were only two kids in the entire state that would have been above Minnesota's composite average recruit (and that's held down by the K/LS signings). By contrast, the state of Iowa had like 8 kids that were all rated above the 3rd highest Minnesota kid the last time I looked. That said, the Gophers/PJ don't get a pass for missing on the two big time kids in Minnesota.

For the negatives, I feel like if you gave PJ truth serum he would tell you that they were hoping to land an ever higher regarded qb, one highly regarded rb, one more highly regarded receiver, one more highly regarded offensive lineman, that the Bargy issue really hurt at de, and that they would have liked to add a safety prospect. Obviously, nobody ever gets everything they want but I think those would be the biggest unfulfilled wishes/needs in this class. I personally am a little skeptical of Clark at qb specifically because he doesn't move all that well and I think a more athletic guy is a better fit for this offense. Morgan isn't a runner, but he moves well in the pocket and looks like an athlete on roll outs and such.

On the plus side this as an extremely deep class to me. Compare our bottom 8 or so recruits to Purdue, Wisconsin, and Iowa and I think you will find a lot better offers for our kids. In some cases those schools have guys rated similarly or higher than some of our recruits despite having mostly MAC type offers. The other thing I love is that some of the prospects that seemed pretty "meh" when they committed got a lot of attention late. Supposedly Oregon was trying to flip DeAngelo Carter late, Solomon Brown had Iowa putting the full court press on him, Donald Willis allegedly had a bunch of B1G schools, and James Gordon most notably had FSU and Miami both make late runs at him. It's a great sign to me that the staff was able to identify some of these kids and get them committed early. It's also a good sign that they were able to keep the attrition to a minimum despite another poor season on the field. I think some in this thread have already gotten a little spoiled by our uptick in recruiting. It should be considered at least a nice class IMHO.

Great post as always EG. You’re one of the best posters on this board - thanks for the analysis.

 

[BroncoRedux]

Wisconsin managed to do it without top 20 classes. Plus he said the B1G West.

My disagreement is not with winning the West or finishing in the top 20. It's winning the BIG. Wisconsin has not done that.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

My disagreement is not with winning the West or finishing in the top 20. It's winning the BIG. Wisconsin has not done that.

What about 1993, 1998, 1999, 2010, 2011, 2012??

 

[GoGoGopher12]

I personally am a little skeptical of Clark at qb specifically because he doesn't move all that well and I think a more athletic guy is a better fit for this offense. Morgan isn't a runner, but he moves well in the pocket and looks like an athlete on roll outs and such.

This is a real head scratcher for me. For one, I've seen Clark play several times live. While he's certainly not the fastest guy on the field, he moves extremely well in the pocket. Whereas ZA would leave the pocket to escape to the outside and get sacked, Clark will step up into the pocket and does an excellent job keeping his eyes downfield. Secondly, the analysis I've read from guys like Mark Schofield state the exact opposite of your thoughts. Phrases like "advanced pocket awareness", "ability to avoid the rush", "extends plays with his feet" were all used to describe Clark. I'd be curious to know what you've seen to cause you to think he "doesn't move all that well".

The Gophers run a Ciarracha RPO offense. It does not require a truly "mobile" QB like you'd have with a Read Option system. I'd expect a few designed QB runs next year since they'll finally have some depth at the position which will help keep the defense at bay. TM does not have anywhere near the same arm strength as Clark which is why he hurls the ball into the stratosphere to get distance on his throws. ZA has the same issue. And as I mentioned in a different thread, the offense moved away from the RPO plays as the season progressed. I have to assume it was because the two QBs weren't able to grasp the concepts or make the correct reads consistently enough.

 

[BroncoRedux]

What about 1993, 1998, 1999, 2010, 2011, 2012??

You're correct. He was referring to the recent alignment. I think. What a stupid post.

 

[btowngopher]

You're correct. He was referring to the recent alignment. I think. What a stupid post.

Michigan State won in 2015 without top 20 classes on their roster.

2015-23rd
2014-26th
2013-37th
2012-34th
2011-32nd

 

[Dano564]

In the old alignment, when Wisconsin won, their classes were ranked:

2012 65
2011 44
2010 46
2009 42
2008 37


OSU has shown that have perennial top 5 classes wins your more titles, but no one other than Michigan and OSU are in that conversation.
We've also seen 11 of Nebraska's last 15 classes rank in the top 26, and look where that got them.

 

[Dano564]

People are complaining compared to other Big Ten classes we are 7th or 8th.



2019 - 8th
2018 - 7th
2017 - 11th
2016 - 8th
2015 - 13th
2014 - 11th
2013 - 14th
2012 - 12th
2011 - 12th
2010 - 9th
2009 - 8th (Brewster)


The argument that we have NOT improved compared to our peers if false and is a carefully manufactured argument intended to mislead.

 

[OddStack]

No point....other than how we did against teams we play every single year. Since the formation of the West, our place in the West:

(7 teams)
2014 4th
2015 6th
2016 3rd
2017 6th
2018 2nd
2019 4th

 

[PMWinSTP]

No point....other than how we did against teams we play every single year. Since the formation of the West, our place in the West:

(7 teams)
2014 4th
2015 6th
2016 3rd
2017 6th
2018 2nd
2019 4th

Might want to check your numbers...also bummed to see Gophs will place 4th next year.

 

[OddStack]

Might want to check your numbers...also bummed to see Gophs will place 4th next year.

I'm not sure what you're talking about, they're right. The class we signed Wednesday is the 2019 class; the class doesn't officially close until Feb. of '19 and the recruits are '19 grads; thus, we are currently 4th in the B1G West. (recuriting results placement in a recruiting thread)

 

[PMWinSTP]

I'm not sure what you're talking about, they're right. The class we signed Wednesday is the 2019 class; the class doesn't officially close until Feb. of '19 and the recruits are '19 grads; thus, we are currently 4th in the B1G West. (recuriting results placement in a recruiting thread)

Got it. The thread has swung back and forth between class ranking and conference results in the last handful of pages, so I though you were referencing conference results.

 

[dpodoll68]

https://247sports.com/college/footb...s-best-recruits-at-Western-Michigan-74934520/

https://detroitsportsnation.com/col...n-michigan-starting-recruiting/02-2015/25208/

There certainly was chatter about how good of recruiter Fleck was...and many GHers pushing for Fleck as the next HC were all over this as well.

That said, I completely agree with you that elevated results on the field are what will allow him to have the opportunity to get classes inside of the top 30. If he does not have that, he will find it hard very quickly to even have classes in the top 40. I personally don't think Gophs need classes consistently at the top 25 level to win the B1G West, be in a position to win the B1G, or consistently be a top 20 ranked team.

What is up with that "Detroit Sports Nation" article? It has a byline of March 23, 2017, yet talks about Fleck and Western Michigan in present terms. Fleck had been at Minnesota for almost 3 months by that point. It also has a link to a "Harlem Shake" video that it says is from 2012 - the video was clearly posted in 2013. Just a really strange article all-around.

 

[PMWinSTP]

What is up with that "Detroit Sports Nation" article? It has a byline of March 23, 2017, yet talks about Fleck and Western Michigan in present terms. Fleck had been at Minnesota for almost 3 months by that point. It also has a link to a "Harlem Shake" video that it says is from 2012 - the video was clearly posted in 2013. Just a really strange article all-around.

No idea but I'm pretty sure the article is originally from February of 2015.

 

[Some Day...Maybe]

2 years in a row and so many unrealistic Gopher Football fans that live in a fantasy world. It's an A again, just like last year. You shouldn't be comparing Minnesota's recruiting class to Alabama's, you should be comparing it to the last 50 years of Minnesota Football recruiting classes, or should I say the last half century?

 

[bottlebass]

2 years in a row and so many unrealistic Gopher Football fans that live in a fantasy world. It's an A again, just like last year. You shouldn't be comparing Minnesota's recruiting class to Alabama's, you should be comparing it to the last 50 years of Minnesota Football recruiting classes, or should I say the last half century?

A lot of times in the last 50 years we had F's and D's in recruiting classes. That doesn't make this class an A unless you are content with being mediocre. The sad thing is so many gopher fans like you think wanting to win B1G championships is living in a fantasy world.

 

[btowngopher]

A lot of times in the last 50 years we had F's and D's in recruiting classes. That doesn't make this class an A unless you are content with being mediocre. The sad thing is so many gopher fans like you think wanting to win B1G championships is living in a fantasy world.

The odds of the gophers winning the B1G are 1000 times higher than the odds of the gophers consistently landing what you consider A classes.

 

[HoustonTXGopher]

Until they legitimately crack the top thirty in class ranks, I will give them a C, if you want to compare this class of the past several years it is probably a B+.

When they bring in top 20 classes is when I will give them an A and I think that would be once every several years and also the ceiling for our Gophers.

Granted, I am grading simply on the class rank as of now. A lot can change after these kids have been in the system for a while and hopefully get coached up.