What Bo Proves

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Tubby Smith Vs. Bo Ryan
2001-2002 - 2009-2010

Keep in mind, Tubby did coach at Kentucky but numbers are also brought down by inheriting a 9-22 MN team (that he still did well with)
Bo coaches at Wisconsin, where he inherited a team two years removed from a final four.

After looking at these numbers, who would care to argue that Bo Ryan is a much better coach than Tubby Smith?

(The Number next to each round is the amount of times that the coach lost in that round. Not the total number of times the coach made it to that round)

Elite 8
Tubby: 2
Bo: 1

Sweet 16
Tubby: 1
Bo: 2

Round 2
Tubby: 3
Bo: 5

Round 1
Tubby: 2
Bo: 1

No Tournament
Tubby: 1
Bo: 0

Conference Championships
Tubby: 2
Bo: 3

Conference Tournament Championships
Tubby: 2
Bo: 2

NBA Draft Picks (To show player quality)
Tubby: 3
Bo: 2

Winning Percentage
Tubby: .71
Bo: .73
 

scher215 said:
Tubby Smith Vs. Bo Ryan
2001-2002 - 2009-2010

Keep in mind, Tubby did coach at Kentucky but numbers are also brought down by inheriting a 9-22 MN team (that he still did well with)
Bo coaches at Wisconsin, where he inherited a team two years removed from a final four.

After looking at these numbers, who would care to argue that Bo Ryan is a much better coach than Tubby Smith?


Elite 8
Tubby: 2
Bo: 1

Sweet 16
Tubby: 2
Bo: 2

Round 2
Tubby: 2
Bo: 5

Round 1
Tubby: 2
Bo: 1

No Tournament
Tubby: 1
Bo: 0

Conference Championships
Tubby: 2
Bo: 3

Conference Tournament Championships
Tubby: 2
Bo: 2

NBA Draft Picks (To show player quality)
Tubby: 3
Bo: 2

Winning Percentage
Tubby: .71
Bo: .73
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Tubby made Sweet 16 in 2002, 2003, and 2005 for 3 (not 2).

Tubby made 2nd round (W at least 1 NCAA game) in 2002-03-04-05-06-07 for 6 (not 2).
 

MNBadgerGuy said:
Man, a handful on this board get so green with envy that it blinds their reasoning. When you try to take any angle you can to marginalize one of the best B10 Bball coaches in its history it is pretty embarrassing.
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Wasn't trying to marginalize. Bo is a great coach and recruiter. He knows his system and gets guys who fit it - that's what a great college coach does. He is very similar to Tubby record wise during the years Bo has been at Wisconsin. I say that all while HATING everything Badgers.

My point, is to attempt to counter the extreme Anti-Tubbyism that goes on here. People are so "envious" of Wisconsin they act like somehow Bo Ryan is God and our basketball coach is Satan. The two coaches actually have very similar records (see above) since Bo took over at Wisconsin. They are both good coaches, they have different systems, and different methods. But great coaches none-the-less

(My comment about his comments was just an observation, coaches have no reason to say more to the media than that. Does his constant arguing with officials bother me? Sure. Would he survive one NBA game? No - He'd get tossed. But he is still an excellent coach)
 

Friend Of Tubby said:
Tubby made Sweet 16 in 2002, 2003, and 2005 for 3 (not 2).

Tubby made 2nd round (W at least 1 NCAA game) in 2002-03-04-05-06-07 for 6 (not 2).
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I should have explained those numbers better. The # next to each one is times they lost in that round. I could add them together if that makes more sense? I didn't really know which way would be best.

I had one too many sweet 16 losses though, he lost in the sweet 16 the year before (2000-2001) I fixed that.
 




For the record, before you lynch Tubby, there is not one Wisconsin basketball fan alive that thought Taylor would be as good as he is now when he came to Madison. Not one. Anyone that tells you they knew by the time he was a junior that he would be first team all Big 10 and be in the conversation for Big 10 player of the year is full of you know what.

Jordan Taylor is as good as he is now because he works his ass off and gets good coaching. But mainly because he works his ass off.
 

GVBadger said:
For the record, before you lynch Tubby, there is not one Wisconsin basketball fan alive that thought Taylor would be as good as he is now when he came to Madison. Not one. Anyone that tells you they knew by the time he was a junior that he would be first team all Big 10 and be in the conversation for Big 10 player of the year is full of you know what.

Jordan Taylor is as good as he is now because he works his ass off and gets good coaching. But mainly because he works his ass off.
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Agreed. From reading about Taylor and seeing how he has improved, you can tell that he is a hard working guy.
 





Bo+Ryan+Grinch+2.BMP
 

They better make a run this year. Because this is as good as a team as they will have for a while.
They won't fizzle, Bo is too good of a coach to have a major dropoff. I will say with losing some pieces, unless Jordan taylor can average 30+ next year, it will be pretty much impossible for next years team to be better than this years.
 

Rosemountian said:
They better make a run this year. Because this is as good as a team as they will have for a while.
They won't fizzle, Bo is too good of a coach to have a major dropoff. I will say with losing some pieces, unless Jordan taylor can average 30+ next year, it will be pretty much impossible for next years team to be better than this years.
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What if he goes pro?
 



scher215 said:
What if he goes pro?
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If he goes pro they will really have some holes to fill. Even so, I don't see them dropping to worse than a bubble team. They really never have with Bo despite what they have lost before, why would they now?
 

Rosemountian said:
They better make a run this year. Because this is as good as a team as they will have for a while.
They won't fizzle, Bo is too good of a coach to have a major dropoff. I will say with losing some pieces, unless Jordan taylor can average 30+ next year, it will be pretty much impossible for next years team to be better than this years.
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Taylor might average 30 next season. He'll most likely be pre-season POTY. He's not going to the NBA. Doesn't have the measurables. At his ceiling, he's Jameer Nelson. But like him, needs a senior season. The UW has some good players returning and coming in. They'll be fine and many of you will again be shocked.
 

No doubt in my mind they will be fine. Did you read the post you responded to? I essentially said they would be fine. I also said if they want to make a deep NCAA tourney run they better do it this year. They won'y be able to fully replace Leuer and will not be as good next year. I never stated they would be bad.

Wisconsin fans are awfully defensive about statements that were never made on a gopher message board.
 

Badger fan here. Obviously this is an interesting thread that I thought I'd add my 2 cents worth. I've been a long-time lurker on this board but first time to post.

Seems to me there is something that is implied but not emphasized enough in discussions of Bo and his coaching. A consistent factor in the kids he recruits is that, by and large, they improve during their time at UW. Taylor is a good example, but by no means the only one. He was not highly recruited and his freshman year was pretty dismal. Shot poorly, didn't show the court sense that he does now. But from year 1 to year 2 he made a leap upward so that he became one of the elite guards in the B10. Now obviously he is the best, or nearly so. Not sure if anyone is in his class. Illini fans have been trumpeting McCamey, but he's fallen out of the picture for the last month. The point is Taylor has improved immensely. Same can be said for Leuer, Tucker, Hanson, Landry. Of course not everyone has made that leap: Wilson and Evans are notables this year who are doing worse than last year for whatever reason.

So in comparing Bo to Tubby, I ask you this: who on the Gophers has improved over the years? I don't see any improvement in Sampson, Iverson, even Hoffarbor, Joseph, etc. Trevor is a beast and may be improving over the season but he seems to be the only one. But you guys know better and can speak to this.
 

wisbadger303 said:
Badger fan here. Obviously this is an interesting thread that I thought I'd add my 2 cents worth. I've been a long-time lurker on this board but first time to post.

Seems to me there is something that is implied but not emphasized enough in discussions of Bo and his coaching. A consistent factor in the kids he recruits is that, by and large, they improve during their time at UW. Taylor is a good example, but by no means the only one. He was not highly recruited and his freshman year was pretty dismal. Shot poorly, didn't show the court sense that he does now. But from year 1 to year 2 he made a leap upward so that he became one of the elite guards in the B10. Now obviously he is the best, or nearly so. Not sure if anyone is in his class. Illini fans have been trumpeting McCamey, but he's fallen out of the picture for the last month. The point is Taylor has improved immensely. Same can be said for Leuer, Tucker, Hanson, Landry. Of course not everyone has made that leap: Wilson and Evans are notables this year who are doing worse than last year for whatever reason.

So in comparing Bo to Tubby, I ask you this: who on the Gophers has improved over the years? I don't see any improvement in Sampson, Iverson, even Hoffarbor, Joseph, etc. Trevor is a beast and may be improving over the season but he seems to be the only one. But you guys know better and can speak to this.
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Somebody improved enough to get 1 of only 11 W by opponents in Madison since Ryan arrived.

Both Hoffarber and Nolen improved over frosh years. Sampson and Iverson, ditto. Williams, not much (yet). The others are in their first year as Gophers.
 

wisbadger303 said:
So in comparing Bo to Tubby, I ask you this: who on the Gophers has improved over the years? I don't see any improvement in Sampson, Iverson, even Hoffarbor, Joseph, etc. Trevor is a beast and may be improving over the season but he seems to be the only one. But you guys know better and can speak to this.
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Not sure if serious :confused:

You realize he took one of the bottom 4 teams in the history of gopher basketball and won 20 games with them? Either he helped them improve or they improved and Tubby just happened to be there.
 

Rosemountian said:
They better make a run this year. Because this is as good as a team as they will have for a while.
They won't fizzle, Bo is too good of a coach to have a major dropoff. I will say with losing some pieces, unless Jordan taylor can average 30+ next year, it will be pretty much impossible for next years team to be better than this years.
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They probably won't be as good next year. Then again, I was almost positive they wouldn't be as good this year as last year after losing Hughes and Bohannon. After Tucker graduated in '07, I just couldn't see where the points were going to come from the next year. They ended up going 16-2 in Big Ten play. When Devin Harris left after his junior season, it was disappointing as he was clearly an irreplaceable player. They went to the Elite Eight the next year.

I've given up trying to predict the future, but if the past is any guide, UW will be just fine. If this year's team continues to win they will be hard to top, but that's because they are getting close to the ceiling (2-3 seed? 2nd place in Big Ten?). If this team loses a few more games and ends up being a 4-5 seed, next years squad could easily match that. Actually, with the amount of talent leaving the Big Ten by next year, I wouldn't be surprised to see UW be a "poorer" team but still have equal or better results. It will an incredibly balanced conference next year, with 11/12 teams (excepting PSU) having legit tourney aspirations, which is pretty unprecedented in the history of the Big Ten (not just because there's never been 12 teams before)
 


Friend Of Tubby said:
Somebody improved enough to get 1 of only 11 W by opponents in Madison since Ryan arrived.

Both Hoffarber and Nolen improved over frosh years. Sampson and Iverson, ditto. Williams, not much (yet). The others are in their first year as Gophers.
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Agreed.

Damien improved a lot from freshman to senior year. He put up numbers similar to Rodney his freshman and sophmore years. He was a member of that team that gave Bo a loss at home (only 10 other teams have done that)

Sampson has as well, his jump shot has much more range than it used to, his hook shot becomes more and more effective and he continues to excel as a shot blocker, he also has improved his speed and quickness, becoming much more athletic.

Hoffarber has improved ball handling, his defense, and his passing.

Devoe, even though gone, improved his passing this season (I know the Badger fans saw his 7 assists at UW, looking rather Rondo-esque) and his jump shot as well (although, he still was fairly inconsistent with it)

Trevor has been here one season, tough to improve over the years in one year.

Al has improved immensley, for a 2-star recruit often called one of the top PG in the conference (deffense, quickness, ball handling, etc.), he hasn't been too bad huh?

I am sick of the argument that "Bo improves players unlike Tubby, he makes something out of nothing!!!"

Many of Bo's recruits are (and have been) 4-star recruits or 3-star recruits. He took over two years after a final four. Tubby had been winning 20+ games with a team of 2-3 star Monson recruits starting (up until this year really). So, before we crown Bo the king of improving players, lets give Tubby some credit as well. Bo is a great coach and does improve players, but he didn't just knock off the #1 team with 1 and 2 star recruits either.
 




dpodoll68 said:
Preposterous Statement of the Year 2011 nominee
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Interesting comment.

He has the best winning percentage for coaches in the history of the Big 10. He has coached for almost 10 years. I would think that qualifies him to be in the discussion.

Maybe having better then the best winning percentage in the history of the conference is needed before one could be considered one of the best coaches.
 



GVBadger said:
Interesting comment.

He has the best winning percentage for coaches in the history of the Big 10. He has coached for almost 10 years. I would think that qualifies him to be in the discussion.

Maybe having better then the best winning percentage in the history of the conference is needed before one could be considered one of the best coaches.
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He ranked #5 among active coaches in career W-L record heading into 2011 season. Badger fans should expect commensurate results in March that haven't been forthcoming from Bo Ryan.
 

scher215 said:
Agreed.

Damien improved a lot from freshman to senior year. He put up numbers similar to Rodney his freshman and sophmore years. He was a member of that team that gave Bo a loss at home (only 10 other teams have done that)

Sampson has as well, his jump shot has much more range than it used to, his hook shot becomes more and more effective and he continues to excel as a shot blocker, he also has improved his speed and quickness, becoming much more athletic.

Hoffarber has improved ball handling, his defense, and his passing.

Devoe, even though gone, improved his passing this season (I know the Badger fans saw his 7 assists at UW, looking rather Rondo-esque) and his jump shot as well (although, he still was fairly inconsistent with it)

Trevor has been here one season, tough to improve over the years in one year.

Al has improved immensley, for a 2-star recruit often called one of the top PG in the conference (deffense, quickness, ball handling, etc.), he hasn't been too bad huh?

I am sick of the argument that "Bo improves players unlike Tubby, he makes something out of nothing!!!"

Many of Bo's recruits are (and have been) 4-star recruits or 3-star recruits. He took over two years after a final four. Tubby had been winning 20+ games with a team of 2-3 star Monson recruits starting (up until this year really). So, before we crown Bo the king of improving players, lets give Tubby some credit as well. Bo is a great coach and does improve players, but he didn't just knock off the #1 team with 1 and 2 star recruits either.
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I would agree. Those that don't think Sampson and Iverson have improved don't remember them as Freshman. Hoff has clearly improved and Johnson is a very good example. People look at Williams as one example when Rodney really needs to look in the mirror. Is he willing to shoot 500 jumpers a day in the off season? Maybe he has done that, maybe not, who knows? But the coach can't do it for him.

I believe the player is the most responsible for how much they are going to improve over 4 years. The coach can only do so much. How hard is the player going to work? How coachable will they be? How how will they condition in the off season?

The coach can teach, he can't do the work.
 

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