We've stagnated. Tough conversation below

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stocker08 said:
Unfortunately those first few games gave us all skewed vision for the year.

Gophers graduated a lot of talent this past year. Things looked hopeful with a number of transfers coming in that we thought would make up for it.....but it hasn't. The offensive line is a giant hole on this team and Carroll and the kid from Michigan couldn't seal up. It's the biggest problem with this team hands down. Hoping that we have some younger guys ready to step up this next year.
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A bit concerning some of the younger guys who have been around two or three years are not already better than the transfers.
 
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Live in the now said:
What I of course meant is that’s the top of the mountain right now in the big ten. But you already know that.
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But you're not ready to give Bert much credit unless they get to the top of the mountain. I knew that too because you said it.
 

Live in the now said:
I don’t think Illinois is going to be a big ten power.
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BB is definitely going to face a lot of headwinds starting next year. He is losing a lot of talent he had nothing to do with recruiting, and will probably loose his DC. I think this is their year.
 

Goldmember said:
BB is definitely going to face a lot of headwinds starting next year. He is losing a lot of talent he had nothing to do with recruiting, and will probably loose his DC. I think this is their year.
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If Chase Brown opts to go pro ( he has a year left for sure, and possibly a COVUD year), the Illinois offense will become mediocre very quickly.
 
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JoeSchmoe said:
Last year of brewster was 3-9. Year 6 of kill/claeys and co was 9-4. increased the wins every year except 1. Had 2 winning big 10 seasons
Last year of kill/claeys and co 9-4. Year 6 of PJ is so far a joke. Has only matched 9 wins 1 time and exceeded 9 wins 1 time. Has 2 winning big 10 seasons

Coyle said PJ was brought in to win more games, put more people in the stadium, etc. PJ won 2 more games 1 year, with a ton of kill/claeys players. Now his recruits are not beating anyone with a winning record. He increased the wins 1 out of 5 seasons and it's shaping up to 1 out of 6 seasons. He has flatlined. Maybe everyone is happy about the "culture" but where are the results on the field?
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Kill never won a bowl game, never beat Wisconsin, made PJ look innovative on offense.

Kill is gone. Get over it
 


swingman said:
In Bert's year zero, he beat Neb, PSU, MN and NW...lost to PU 13-9, lost to MD 20-17, to RU 20-14....was within a TD of Iowa at Kinnick with 5 minutes left...
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You must be a Nebraska fan if close losses count for something.

In flecks year zero they lost by 7 to maryland
3 to a Michigan state that finished in the top 15
Was within a TD of Iowa at kinnick with 0 minutes left


They should both get a cookie
 

Gophergrandpa said:
If Chase Brien opts to go pro ( he has a year left for sure, and possibly a COVUD year), the Illinois offense will become mediocre very quickly.
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So the Illinois offense rated 80th per game in scoring will upgrade to mediocre from slightly below mediocre?
 

Dakota2 said:
A bit concerning some of the younger guys who have been around two or three years are not already better than the transfers.
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Offensive line is a tough position for younger, less developed guys to step into. Just from a size and strength standpoint....
 

Gophergrandpa said:
If Chase Brien opts to go pro ( he has a year left for sure, and possibly a COVUD year), the Illinois offense will become mediocre very quickly.
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I'd be surprised if brown is back next year.

Bert also struck gold with devito.
 




Some guy said:
So the Illinois offense rated 80th per game in scoring will upgrade to mediocre from slightly below mediocre?
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They weren’t mediocre against us. So, I’ll qualify to say that they move from excellent against us to mediocre against us. We good ?
 

Dakota2 said:
But you're not ready to give Bert much credit unless they get to the top of the mountain. I knew that too because you said it.
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I like Bert. Liked him at wisconsin. But let’s just wait awhile before we decide he is the next Barry Alvarez. They haven’t beat anybody. Badgers are down. Iowa is down and Minnesota is middling. I was disappointed when Bert left the badgers as I am a fan of them also. 6 games is a super small Sample me boy.
 

Goldmember said:
BB is definitely going to face a lot of headwinds starting next year. He is losing a lot of talent he had nothing to do with recruiting, and will probably loose his DC. I think this is their year
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Agreed. Just because he is having a good year and we all know the west is wayyyyyyyyy down these beavis’s want to compare flecks whole tenure to 6 games by fat belima. So ridiculous
 




Gophergrandpa said:
They weren’t mediocre against us. So, I’ll qualify to say that they move from excellent against us to mediocre against us. We good ?
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472 yards on 85 plays
That’s 5.55 yards per play.

Extrapolated over the season that would be right in the middle of the country in yards per play.

26 points per game.
Do that the whole season that’s in the 80s scoring
3rd down conversions 35%
That would be in the 100s if you did it the whole year


Yes their offense was mediocre:
What was not mediocre was 4/4 on 4th down.
What was not mediocre was the defense of Illinois.

Gophers had 4.4 yards per play.
Gophers were 29% on 3rd down and only converted 1 4th down.
Gophers lost turnover battle 3-0


Really good execution in spots. But overall pretty average offense.
 

as to the original point of the thread- it's hard to say a program has "stagnated" in the middle of a season.

Right now, the Gophers could potentially finish anywhere from 4-8 to 9-3 in the regular season.

4-8 would certainly be seen as a big step backwards. 9-3 would be seen (by most) as a solid season that could have been even better.

so any final judgements will have to wait.

but the recruiting aspect of this is - in some sense - even more important than wins and losses.

for the Gophers to - at least - play at the level of WI and IA, they need to bring in better athletes.
for the Gophers to move past IA and WI, they need to bring in a higher level of athlete.
Can that be done at MN? Probably not without more NIL $$ than is currently available.
 

salzie said:
Kill never won a bowl game, never beat Wisconsin, made PJ look innovative on offense.

Kill is gone. Get over it
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Not asking for him to come back and not even remotely close to building a statue of PJ cause he beat one of our rivals and won 2 more games. I’d be careful hanging my hat on winning bowl games. A lot of posters don’t think those count.
 


Live in the now said:
I like Bert. Liked him at wisconsin. But let’s just wait awhile before we decide he is the next Barry Alvarez. They haven’t beat anybody. Badgers are down. Iowa is down and Minnesota is middling. I was disappointed when Bert left the badgers as I am a fan of them also. 6 games is a super small Sample me boy.
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Just saying there's a lot of ground between the next Alvarez and a solid, improving football team. Bert's done well in a season and a half.
 

JoeSchmoe said:
Not asking for him to come back and not even remotely close to building a statue of PJ cause he beat one of our rivals and won 2 more games. I’d be careful hanging my hat on winning bowl games. A lot of posters don’t think those count.
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Certainly not ready to give PJ a statue
 

Live in the now said:
Agreed. Just because he is having a good year and we all know the west is wayyyyyyyyy down these beavis’s want to compare flecks whole tenure to 6 games by fat belima. So ridiculous
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He's been there 18 games. They've been competitive in most of those.
 


Dakota2 said:
He's been there 18 games. They've been competitive in most of those.
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Yep that’s true but my post started saying that just because Bert has done decent doesn’t mean that pj hasn’t. And being competitive and turning a program around are 2 different things. They are better but we will see. They will probably win the west but as we have seen it’s basically as bad as it’s ever been. If they are competitive against Michigan then maybe I’ll be a believer. If I’m a betting man they get blown out by Michigan, win the west and get blown out again. They will be 0-3 against ranked teams by year end.
 

PJ is in trouble and I think he knows it. We lack high end talent. Our seniors in ‘19 plus Bateman were really, really good anchored by an All Pro type player in AWjr who changed games more than any Gopher probably ever. Not PJ’s guys. Nubin is really good but other than Mo who else? And, who’s on the horizon? I like 8 but he can’t throw it to himself. 9 I think is also a game changer but again who catches the ball we have a bunch of undersized moderate talents at WR coming up. I’d bench 22 and keep 5 there they are momentum killers are — they the best we have?! Oh that’s right PJ’s 19 ACT mind doesn’t believe in momentum LOL. 88 likely goes pro after this year as does 27 and Mo is gone. The struggle is real. PJ likely will be intimidated by his boy Schiano this week who will likely run circles around him like BB and Ferentz do hopefully he lacks the talent to close us out. There is no vibe around the program I think folks are as down on things as they have been since Brew.
 

Gopherchase said:
PJ is in trouble and I think he knows it. We lack high end talent. Our seniors in ‘19 plus Bateman were really, really good anchored by an All Pro type player in AWjr who changed games more than any Gopher probably ever. Not PJ’s guys. Nubin is really good but other than Mo who else? And, who’s on the horizon? I like 8 but he can’t throw it to himself. 9 I think is also a game changer but again who catches the ball we have a bunch of undersized moderate talents at WR coming up. I’d bench 22 and keep 5 there they are momentum killers are — they the best we have?! Oh that’s right PJ’s 19 ACT mind doesn’t believe in momentum LOL. 88 likely goes pro after this year as does 27 and Mo is gone. The struggle is real. PJ likely will be intimidated by his boy Schiano this week who will likely run circles around him like BB and Ferentz do hopefully he lacks the talent to close us out. There is no vibe around the program I think folks are as down on things as they have been since Brew.
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You sound like what people said in 2020.
 

JoeSchmoe said:
Last year of brewster was 3-9. Year 6 of kill/claeys and co was 9-4. increased the wins every year except 1. Had 2 winning big 10 seasons
Last year of kill/claeys and co 9-4. Year 6 of PJ is so far a joke. Has only matched 9 wins 1 time and exceeded 9 wins 1 time. Has 2 winning big 10 seasons

Coyle said PJ was brought in to win more games, put more people in the stadium, etc. PJ won 2 more games 1 year, with a ton of kill/claeys players. Now his recruits are not beating anyone with a winning record. He increased the wins 1 out of 5 seasons and it's shaping up to 1 out of 6 seasons. He has flatlined. Maybe everyone is happy about the "culture" but where are the results on the field?
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So if the next coach has a season where he only wins two more than Fleck’s best season you won’t be impressed? Also Kill/Claeys best season was only two games better than Brews best if you want to use your terrible criteria. Also Kill/Claeys had a three year stretch of 8-5, 8-5, and 6-7, that’s not increasing the wins every year but one.
 
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JoeSchmoe said:
Not asking for him to come back and not even remotely close to building a statue of PJ cause he beat one of our rivals and won 2 more games. I’d be careful hanging my hat on winning bowl games. A lot of posters don’t think those count.
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I know I am wasting my time asking this but where are you pulling the a lot of posters believe bowl games don't count crap from?
 


MNVCGUY said:
I know I am wasting my time asking this but where are you pulling the a lot of posters believe bowl games don't count crap from?
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I don’t believe bowl games are as important as regular season games and have been pretty vocal about that.

8-4 regular season with a bowl win is a lot worse season than 9-3 with a bowl loss.
11-1 with a bowl loss is a lot better than 10-2 with a bowl win
Etc

But that’s not to say bowl games aren’t important. Just not as important as regular season games.
 

Be careful what you wish for. As I have posted in other posts I think PJ is a good coach not a great one. I think he is near his ceiling. His success is gated by the difficulties in recruiting 4 & 5 stars to the gophers. 7-8 wins and an occasional west division title is the future. Who can you get to replace him that is better? Nebraska fired Pelini and have never been able to get a coach as good as him. I think Minnesota’s football identity is what? Wisc is running and line play. Iowa is defense. Ohio State is QBs, defensive linemen, and wide receivers. Elite Recruits are looking at what will help them get to the next level. Minnesota is deficient in establishing their football identity. Try selling that RTB shtick to a 5 star. Not something you will hear in Ann Arbor, State College. or Columbus.
 

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