We've stagnated. Tough conversation below

Nice to know your standards are lax. Maybe the desire to "blow a bum for a 9-4 record" is also the problem. Hitting that kind of rock bottom is not acceptable desperation and is more harmful that calling a 9-4 record decent.
What are your standards? Ferentz has failed to reach nine wins 15 times, and hit 9 wins or more on nine occasions at Iowa. So would you say he has only been a decent or better coach for less than half his time at Iowa?
 

Don’t agree with this at all. If anything, the opposite is true - UMN is consistently being ranked in the top 20-25 public schools in the COUNTRY as of late. Carlson, CSE, CBS and even some of the majors in CLA see nationally ranked as well.

Nowadays you need a 30 at minimum on your ACT to enter the majority of our programs.
Ranking against peers means little. All higher education is in decline.
 

Are there issues with chemistry regarding the players, the coaching staff, or administration?

Is chemistry the same as culture?
 


What are your standards? Ferentz has failed to reach nine wins 15 times, and hit 9 wins or more on nine occasions at Iowa. So would you say he has only been a decent or better coach for less than half his time at Iowa?
Based on things said by my father-in-law, a Hawkeye booster of over 50 years, yes. Hawkeye boosters have been looking for ways to get rid of Ferentz for the last ten years. Also, they are happier than pigs in mud about the collapse of our wrestling program.
 


You're absolutely right. Given the size of our alumni network and proximity to two large metropolitan hubs we have no business not attracting NIL money. It's a matter of communicating effectively with all parties to secure it, which we clearly haven't been able to do.
Yes except Minnesotans are very cheap, frugal and miserly. The school tuition for the U has gotten outrageously expense for current students and alumni. That and the U nor the Alumni association are very good at networking with professional associations, assisting students during enrollment with community and business connections, keeping Alumni engaged or selling why their support matters. I'm gonna be honest, a lot of schools do a much better job of reasoning and keeping Alumni engaged as donors. The University and Athletic department are not very good at selling reasons why you should donate, beyond give me money, or forced donations tied to tickets. Not a very well thought out tiered system, not a lot of well timed engagement.
 

Once you reach a certain point of competitiveness...the hill becomes a cliff face. Program is doing fine....and is absolutely in better shape than it was before Fleck took over.
This is true ... but it immediately begs the question: what, then, is reasonable to expect?

If a magic genie came down and said "well, look guys, college football just isn't the NFL, and you're never going to have a fair amount of talent to compete in Mpls against even the top programs in your conf .... 7-8 wins is on average the best you can expect" .....

...... what does that mean?

Do people say "F it then, why should I follow this team if that's what it is?" ??
 

This is true ... but it immediately begs the question: what, then, is reasonable to expect?

If a magic genie came down and said "well, look guys, college football just isn't the NFL, and you're never going to have a fair amount of talent to compete in Mpls against even the top programs in your conf .... 7-8 wins is on average the best you can expect" .....

...... what does that mean?

Do people say "F it then, why should I follow this team if that's what it is?" ??
I think that it’s fair to expect 6+ every year and be extremely disappointed with 5 or less
I think it’s fair to expect once every 3-5 years to expect a 10+ win season and hope that you take advantage and win 12 when you get that.

For instance 2019 won 11. Wish they would’ve won 12 or a different 11.

If we haven’t won 10 again by 2024 I’ll start getting a little anxious. Especially if 22 and 23 end up being 7 and 6 wins.

Two 5s in 3 years. I’m ready to move on.
Zero 10s in 6-8 years. I’m ready to move on.

Fleck a little different because I kind of count 2020 as never happening. You don’t have to count it as never happening. But I do.
 

This is true ... but it immediately begs the question: what, then, is reasonable to expect?

If a magic genie came down and said "well, look guys, college football just isn't the NFL, and you're never going to have a fair amount of talent to compete in Mpls against even the top programs in your conf .... 7-8 wins is on average the best you can expect" .....

...... what does that mean?

Do people say "F it then, why should I follow this team if that's what it is?" ??

My point is that it's unlikely that the Gophers will ever recruit at a top ten level unless something drastic happens....while the OSU/Michigan teams of the world will pull in top recruits regardless of whether they have a playoff or a six win season.

Doesn't mean that the Gophers won't be able to field teams that can beat top programs here and there.
 



I think that it’s fair to expect 6+ every year and be extremely disappointed with 5 or less
I think it’s fair to expect once every 3-5 years to expect a 10+ win season and hope that you take advantage and win 12 when you get that.

For instance 2019 won 11. Wish they would’ve won 12 or a different 11.

If we haven’t won 10 again by 2024 I’ll start getting a little anxious. Especially if 22 and 23 end up being 7 and 6 wins.

Two 5s in 3 years. I’m ready to move on.
Zero 10s in 6-8 years. I’m ready to move on.

Fleck a little different because I kind of count 2020 as never happening. You don’t have to count it as never happening. But I do.
This seems reasonable.

But man ... kinda disappointing? Kinda like "OK, well I'm certainly not going to follow them closely then, let me know if they get to 7 wins with a few left and then I'll pay attention" to the average TC sports fan?

Maybe it already is that anyway ...
 

This seems reasonable.

But man ... kinda disappointing? Kinda like "OK, well I'm certainly not going to follow them closely then, let me know if they get to 7 wins with a few left and then I'll pay attention" to the average TC sports fan?

Maybe it already is that anyway ...
If you are following gophers to be a perennial contender I don’t believe it can happen.

I’m trying to think of a program that has gone from gopher level to a perennial contender.
Baylor? Ok state? Oregon?
Not sure there is a good comparison but the answer is always money.
 

If you are following gophers to be a perennial contender I don’t believe it can happen.

I’m trying to think of a program that has gone from gopher level to a perennial contender.
Baylor? Ok state? Oregon?
Not sure there is a good comparison but the answer is always money.
Believe it or not, Clemson.

Obviously way different circumstances, but they were once I believe more like VT is now.
 




Believe it or not, Clemson.

Obviously way different circumstances, but they were once I believe more like VT is now.
Clemson won a national title in the 80s

Don’t think it’s comparable.
Clemson revival should be Nebraska’s hope


Va tech and Kansas state might be good models for us.
Find a hall of fame coach that sticks around
 

F off calling 9-4 "decent"! 🤣🤣

What program have you been following for the past few decades?! Most fans would have blown a bum for a 9-4 record any year between 1986 and 2019. Now that we went 11-2 people are calling one of our better records in 40 years "decent"?!? Hilarious.
If you go back a few years, there are several threads dedicated to how unimpressive a 9-4 season was.
 


Hawkeye boosters have been looking for ways to get rid of Ferentz for the last ten years.

If PJ Fleck delivers to Minnesota the next ten years what Kirk Ferentz delivered to Iowa the past ten years, we would be quite happy, I think.

Two Big Ten west titles, a Rose Bowl, six January bowl games, three top 15 rankings, a 12-win season, two 10-win seasons, nine of 10 wins in the Floyd of Rosedale game.

If offered that for the next decade, I'd take it.
 

I think PJ is a very good coach, but his one failing has been in recruiting. We all know that two or three players can make a huge difference on offense - a QB, a receiver, a running back. Ditto a few defensive players. PJ is not bringing in these players, at least not at the same time. But his winning percentage, 62%, is better than any U of M coach since pre-World War II Bierman! The NIL is hurting us and football generally, so is the open portal, so is the destruction of 100yr old conferences. We may end up like ND State in Fargo, at a different level of football. I got some heat some months back predicting a 7-5 season, but that looks like what we'll have, 7-5, maybe 8-4, plus a bowl. Next year looks like a nightmare. Last year's Bowling Green and Illinois games influenced my thinking. Crowd the box and harry the QB, forcing a passing game, and MN is helpless. AK may change that, but will he have the supporting cast he needs?
 

Yeah, just ask Illini fans about something like that happening.
One good season isn’t a turn around. Let’s see how they do the next few. I agree Bert has had a great year but 1. The year isn’t over and 2 small sample size me boy. Playing well but beat Michigan or Ohio state and then we can talk.
 

Once you reach a certain point of competitiveness...the hill becomes a cliff face. Program is doing fine....and is absolutely in better shape than it was before Fleck took over.
Absolutely. I’m not sure what some of the rubes on this board expect. I realize there have been some bad losses but for teams like Minnesota that happens. Shit it happens to top 25 teams every frikin week.
 

Absolutely. I’m not sure what some of the rubes on this board expect. I realize there have been some bad losses but for teams like Minnesota that happens. Shit it happens to top 25 teams every frikin week.

Unfortunately those first few games gave us all skewed vision for the year.

Gophers graduated a lot of talent this past year. Things looked hopeful with a number of transfers coming in that we thought would make up for it.....but it hasn't. The offensive line is a giant hole on this team and Carroll and the kid from Michigan couldn't seal up. It's the biggest problem with this team hands down. Hoping that we have some younger guys ready to step up this next year.
 

Fleck has been able to bring better talent through the door but the vast majority have transferred. Kill kept his guys home and developed them. His 2016 class was the backbone of our 2019 team.
Guy who coached when the free transfer waiver didn’t exist had less transfers than someone coaching when free transfers do exist, brilliant. I don’t get why the people critical of Fleck not winning enough also like to heap praise on Kill. Don’t they realize that Fleck is winning more than Kill did?
 

One good season isn’t a turn around. Let’s see how they do the next few. I agree Bert has had a great year but 1. The year isn’t over and 2 small sample size me boy. Playing well but beat Michigan or Ohio state and then we can talk.
In Bert's year zero, he beat Neb, PSU, MN and NW...lost to PU 13-9, lost to MD 20-17, to RU 20-14....was within a TD of Iowa at Kinnick with 5 minutes left...
 

In Bert's year zero, he beat Neb, PSU, MN and NW...lost to PU 13-9, lost to MD 20-17, to RU 20-14....was within a TD of Iowa at Kinnick with 5 minutes left...

Actually, quite similar to PJ's year zero.

PJ beat Nebraska by 33, won @Oregon State by 32, Middle Tennessee by 31, and also beat Illinois and Buffalo.

Lost at Kinnick by 7, basically had Purdue beat on the road and lost; and lost by 7 @Maryland and by 3 to #21 MSU.
 


You know what team had even more Kill players? How about the 2018 team that only won 7 games? The 2017 team had even more Kill players and only won 5 games, do you blame Kill for that? How about the teams from 2014-2016 loaded with Kill players, did they win 11 games?
Last year of brewster was 3-9. Year 6 of kill/claeys and co was 9-4. increased the wins every year except 1. Had 2 winning big 10 seasons
Last year of kill/claeys and co 9-4. Year 6 of PJ is so far a joke. Has only matched 9 wins 1 time and exceeded 9 wins 1 time. Has 2 winning big 10 seasons

Coyle said PJ was brought in to win more games, put more people in the stadium, etc. PJ won 2 more games 1 year, with a ton of kill/claeys players. Now his recruits are not beating anyone with a winning record. He increased the wins 1 out of 5 seasons and it's shaping up to 1 out of 6 seasons. He has flatlined. Maybe everyone is happy about the "culture" but where are the results on the field?
 

If PJ Fleck delivers to Minnesota the next ten years what Kirk Ferentz delivered to Iowa the past ten years, we would be quite happy, I think.

Two Big Ten west titles, a Rose Bowl, six January bowl games, three top 15 rankings, a 12-win season, two 10-win seasons, nine of 10 wins in the Floyd of Rosedale game.

If offered that for the next decade, I'd take it.
Sadly, at both schools, there are generations who have little to no patience for Decent to Great seasons to happen. I stand right in that sweet spot thanks to the Brain Wizards who dragged Golden Gopher football into the toilet, literally and figuratively, during my school career.
 

In Bert's year zero, he beat Neb, PSU, MN and NW...lost to PU 13-9, lost to MD 20-17, to RU 20-14....was within a TD of Iowa at Kinnick with 5 minutes left...
Yep I understand that. They haven’t beaten a ranked team that I know of. They also lost to Indiana who sucks balls. Like I said good year but let’s see it plays out. If you want to crown them then crown there ass. (Denny). I don’t think Illinois is going to be a big ten power.
 

One good season isn’t a turn around. Let’s see how they do the next few. I agree Bert has had a great year but 1. The year isn’t over and 2 small sample size me boy. Playing well but beat Michigan or Ohio state and then we can talk.
Needing to beat OSU or Michigan before you're ready to talk is missing a lot of good and interesting football.
 

Needing to beat OSU or Michigan before you're ready to talk is missing a lot of good and interesting football.
What I of course meant is that’s the top of the mountain right now in the big ten. But you already know that.
 




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