We've stagnated. Tough conversation below

RememberMurray

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When expectations fall short, yes, that makes it as, if not more, disappointing. We were fooling ourselves but a lot of people on GH expected a good shot at the division championship. I was hopeful; thought we had a good chance. Now, I want to beat Iowa, Wisconsin, and Nebraska but not expecting it. With Brew, it was evident early on where we were going so it wasn't disappointing. Just the same old shit for a Gopher fan who had also gone through the Salem, Gutey, and Whacker years. PJ seems different to me, but, got to admit, the doubts are creeping back.

Don't mean to be contrary, but having expectations to win a division title is not "the same old shit" as what we had with Gutey, Salem, Wacker, Brewster. Not... at... all.

The thought of winning any kind of championship was not a realistic expectation back then.

At least now we think there's a halfway realistic chance. That in and of itself is a huge difference.
 
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JoeSchmoe

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You're being ridiculous trying to credit kill
No, you are ridiculous for not being smart enough to understand those guys were here before PJ was hired. How many times do you need to be told. Good god look it up.
 



Ewert86PC

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So we should consider firing the coach in 2022 because of what happened in the 1980s?
Yes, because the lowered standards that brought about the 1980s need to be erased, canceled, obliterated, etc. It is a lodestone impeding growth at the entire university. UMN undergraduate schools have become the equivalent of community college. It's the place you go when you kind of, have to, get a Bachelor of Arts or Bachelor of Science degree. The 1980s destroyed the cache of UMN undergraduate degrees, much like the 1990s started on the graduate degrees.

UMN does zero promotion of itself in the Twin Cities and the state in general. I hear more radio ads and see more billboards, TV ads, and digital ads for NDSU, University of North Dakota Mankato State, St Cloud State, Bemidji State, St. Thomas and the Wisconsin system (UW-Superior, UW-Stout, UW-Madison notably) than any UMN school/campus.

This leaves athletics as the highest visibility cultural marker that the University of Minnesota has. There has to be some form of excellence at the University of Minnesota since most of it has been pissed away by previous academics.

As harsh as it sounds, this matters more because of UMN's scandalous pysch debacle, their professors submitting bogus expense reports to pay off battered girlfriends, the EOAA hunting black, male athletes for manufactured discipline and turning Dinkytown into a turf war for gangs. Those are all things that stand out in people's minds.

Athletics is so much closer to diverting the gaze of the general public from those matters than academics is. So, yes, the temperature of the seat of the head football, in terms of on-field performance, should be much hotter than it is currently.
 


salzie

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No, you are ridiculous for not being smart enough to understand those guys were here before PJ was hired. How many times do you need to be told. Good god look it up.
The guys I listed were here before PJ?
 

LeftofThaDial

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What distinguishes Madison and Iowa City from the TCs? Why are they able to attract the talent they do? Why were we able to do that and be a national power prior to 1961? This thread suggests that all we need is the right coach. We've tried ten coaches since 61.
What distinguishes Madison and Iowa City from the TCs? Why are they able to attract the talent they do? Why were we able to do that and be a national power prior to 1961? This thread suggests that all we need is the right coach. We've tried ten coaches since 61.
I don’t think the SEC allowed black football players till the mid sixties. Bama waited till ‘71.
 

RememberMurray

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Yes, because the lowered standards that brought about the 1980s need to be erased, canceled, obliterated, etc. It is a lodestone impeding growth at the entire university. UMN undergraduate schools have become the equivalent of community college. It's the place you go when you kind of, have to, get a Bachelor of Arts or Bachelor of Science degree. The 1980s destroyed the cache of UMN undergraduate degrees, much like the 1990s started on the graduate degrees.

UMN does zero promotion of itself in the Twin Cities and the state in general. I hear more radio ads and see more billboards, TV ads, and digital ads for NDSU, University of North Dakota Mankato State, St Cloud State, Bemidji State, St. Thomas and the Wisconsin system (UW-Superior, UW-Stout, UW-Madison notably) than any UMN school/campus.

This leaves athletics as the highest visibility cultural marker that the University of Minnesota has. There has to be some form of excellence at the University of Minnesota since most of it has been pissed away by previous academics.

As harsh as it sounds, this matters more because of UMN's scandalous pysch debacle, their professors submitting bogus expense reports to pay off battered girlfriends, the EOAA hunting black, male athletes for manufactured discipline and turning Dinkytown into a turf war for gangs. Those are all things that stand out in people's minds.

Athletics is so much closer to diverting the gaze of the general public from those matters than academics is. So, yes, the temperature of the seat of the head football, in terms of on-field performance, should be much hotter than it is currently.

Ahhhhhh!

So... a change in direction on your part?

It isn't so much the events of the 1980s that you were on and on about earlier, but rather the current need to "divert the gaze of the general public" that makes the firing of the football coach an urgent matter?
 

WriterGoph

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Mediocre is 7-6, 6-7, maybe 8-5 depending on non-conference and/or losing the Axe and the Pig.
Decent is 9-4 and 8-5 with a tough non-conference schedule and/or winning the Pig, and the Axe.

F off calling 9-4 "decent"! 🤣🤣

What program have you been following for the past few decades?! Most fans would have blown a bum for a 9-4 record any year between 1986 and 2019. Now that we went 11-2 people are calling one of our better records in 40 years "decent"?!? Hilarious.
 




RememberMurray

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F off calling 9-4 "decent"! 🤣🤣

What program have you been following for the past few decades?! Most fans would have blown a bum for a 9-4 record any year between 1986 and 2019. Now that we went 11-2 people are calling one of our better records in 40 years "decent"?!? Hilarious.

Yep. To me, it seems like that's the game nowadays. Nothing is ever good enough. An endless cycle, and a perpetual game of coaching carousel is what we seem to love to play.

Constant whining about having to put up with years and years of losing, all the while refusing to acknowledge any successes, and always looking for ways to undermine anything that looks like progress by most objective measures.
 


btowngopher

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No, you are ridiculous for not being smart enough to understand those guys were here before PJ was hired. How many times do you need to be told. Good god look it up.
You know what team had even more Kill players? How about the 2018 team that only won 7 games? The 2017 team had even more Kill players and only won 5 games, do you blame Kill for that? How about the teams from 2014-2016 loaded with Kill players, did they win 11 games?
 



ecoperson

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I'm having a hard time holding back the laughter as half of the posters in this thread would have fired Fleck on Saturday if they were the AD. I'd laugh even harder if I saw the list of sure-fire names that would realistically accept this job after firing one of the best leaders we've seen in the Gopher coaching stable of revenue coaches for the last couple of decades.
 


kisarazu

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Fleck does tend to right the ship when things take a bad turn. I lean much more toward the problem being NIL. I'm not confident in that situation ever getting better unless CFB goes full pro and has salary caps.
 

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Better still if he wets his pants alone in his mom's basement. We don't need to see that.
You’re a freak😂have a nice life. I’ve been a gopher fan for 25 years and I’m glad I haven’t put a second of it into speaking to other fans like this.

On the bright side, I’m glad my opinion lives so rent-free in your head!
 

Ewert86PC

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Ahhhhhh!

So... a change in direction on your part?

It isn't so much the events of the 1980s that you were on and on about earlier, but rather the current need to "divert the gaze of the general public" that makes the firing of the football coach an urgent matter?
If you aren't looking at the bigger picture then you are missing the critical issues. This is a chance to re-elevate the profile of the UMN. If the uniforms worn in the game matter, then maintaining your record of excellence, winning, should matter just as much, if not more. Otherwise you have a priority problem with the sport.
 

Ewert86PC

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F off calling 9-4 "decent"! 🤣🤣

What program have you been following for the past few decades?! Most fans would have blown a bum for a 9-4 record any year between 1986 and 2019. Now that we went 11-2 people are calling one of our better records in 40 years "decent"?!? Hilarious.
Nice to know your standards are lax. Maybe the desire to "blow a bum for a 9-4 record" is also the problem. Hitting that kind of rock bottom is not acceptable desperation and is more harmful that calling a 9-4 record decent.
 

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UMN undergraduate schools have become the equivalent of community college. It's the place you go when you kind of, have to, get a Bachelor of Arts or Bachelor of Science degree.
Don’t agree with this at all. If anything, the opposite is true - UMN is consistently being ranked in the top 20-25 public schools in the COUNTRY as of late. Carlson, CSE, CBS and even some of the majors in CLA see nationally ranked as well.

Nowadays you need a 30 at minimum on your ACT to enter the majority of our programs.
 



MNVCGUY

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Hate to say it but looking good so far.... definitely more competent on offense
Way too soon to really know if this will turn out to be a good move or not for the Badgers. Under Leonhard they have beaten a bad Northwestern team, lost to a mediocre MSU team, and beaten a decent Purdue team. Not sure their results would have been much different if they had kept Chryst around.
 

Mulligan

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Don't mean to be contrary, but having expectations to win a division title is not "the same old shit" as what we had with Gutey, Salem, Wacker, Brewster. Not... at... all.

The thought of winning any kind of championship was not a realistic expectation back then.

At least now we think there's a halfway realistic chance. That in and of itself is a huge difference.
"Same old shit" referred to Brewster, not PJ.
 



Catechol

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Nice to know your standards are lax. Maybe the desire to "blow a bum for a 9-4 record" is also the problem. Hitting that kind of rock bottom is not acceptable desperation and is more harmful that calling a 9-4 record decent.
9-4 is a decent to good year if you’ve already reached a landmark, such as B1G title, West title, Rose Bowl/NY6 bowl. It’s harder to take if you haven’t reached that landmark and don’t know if you will break through. I don’t consider 11-2 a landmark in itself because it doesn’t include any of those signifiers (and the 2 losses were the most important, to Iowa and Wisconsin).
 



FredCoxRocks

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Coughlin, Seth Green, Tyler Johnson, Schlueter, Kamal Martin, Coney Durr, Connor Olson, Antoine Winfield Jr and Ko Kieft were all 2016 guys, and made up more of the 2019 starting/rotational lineup than any other class. Yes, they were the backbone of that roster.
I'm glad Fleck convinced them all to stay and that he and his coaching staff put them in positions to succeed.
 




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