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SallysEnthusiast

SallysEnthusiast

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Let’s be realistic - this program hasn’t changed under Fleck. The 2019 season was largely the fruit of Kill’s labor and the ensuing three seasons have only further proved that. With the 2023 schedule looking difficult and the current sentiment surrounding the program, it’s not out of question we can Fleck or he walks to a different program in the next 18 months. Fleck's persona, hypocritical behavior and inexplicable loyalty to his WMU players is clearly turning athletes and fans off of our program, and it would be in our best interest to at least consider our options in 2023 and 2024. We deserve a coach who will give our offense a pulse, adjust to adversity when our gameplan falls flat and bring in talent to put us in position to win the west.

In this scenario Rossi (paired with a great offensive mind at OC if not KC) is the obvious answer and would help keep our top talent in-house, but an experienced coach (preferably a coach or coordinator from a team with success against ranked opponents) could tip the scales too. Any thoughts on other potential hires?

Sure, we're better than we were in 70s-90s, but ask yourself: are we really happy being perennially "decent"? The Fleck era was supposed to facilitate that leap from good to great. It just hasn't happened, and 6 years is a more than substantial sample size.
 
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SallysEnthusiast said:
Let’s be realistic - this program hasn’t changed under Fleck. The 2019 season was largely the fruit of Kill’s labor and the ensuing three seasons have only further proved that. With the 2023 schedule looking difficult and the current sentiment surrounding the program, it’s not out of question we can Fleck or he walks to a different program in the next 18 months. Fleck's persona and hypocritical behavior is clearly turning athletes and fans off of our program, and it would be in our best interest to at least consider our options in 2023 and 2024. We deserve a coach who will give our offense a pulse, adjust to adversity when our gameplan falls flat and bring in talent to put us in position to win the west.

In this scenario Rossi is the obvious answer and would help keep our top talent in-house, but an experienced coach (preferably a coach or coordinator from a team with success against ranked opponents) could tip the scales too. Any thoughts on other potential hires?

Sure, we're better than we were in 70s-90s, but ask yourself: are we really happy being perennially "decent"? The Fleck era was supposed to facilitate that leap from good to great. It just hasn't happened, and 6 years is a more than substantial sample size.
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"Decent" is not 9-4. Decent is 6-7, 7-6, maybe even 8-5.
 




Taking a "glass half full" approach, in 2019 there was a Big 10 West team that had to play both Michigan and Ohio St, yet they still found a way to make it to Indianapolis. So it is not unthinkable for Minnesota or Purdue to somehow find a way.

That team in 2019, our super friendly neighbors to the east...Wisconsin. Bunch of swell fellas.
 


I think Fleck is a good coach.

I do not think Fleck is going to turn MN into a program that wins Conference titles.

I'm not sure any coach could do that under the current circumstances.

IMHO, the only way MN starts winning conference titles and becoming a national player is if a coach is able to attract enough NIL money to go out and buy a roster that is comparable to a Michigan or an Ohio State.

You're not going to win conference titles by recruiting a bunch of 3-star players and "coaching them up." that method will get you a lot of 8-win seasons - and once in a while, maybe you break through for a 10-win season - but to beat the big boys, you have to have at least the same level of talent.
 




A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
I have trouble giving credit to Kill ... what someone else did that was better than anything Kill did while here ...

Talk about trying to "fail up" someone...
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Fleck has been able to bring better talent through the door but the vast majority have transferred. Kill kept his guys home and developed them. His 2016 class was the backbone of our 2019 team.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
I think Fleck is a good coach.

I do not think Fleck is going to turn MN into a program that wins Conference titles.

I'm not sure any coach could do that under the current circumstances.

IMHO, the only way MN starts winning conference titles and becoming a national player is if a coach is able to attract enough NIL money to go out and buy a roster that is comparable to a Michigan or an Ohio State.

You're not going to win conference titles by recruiting a bunch of 3-star players and "coaching them up." that method will get you a lot of 8-win seasons - and once in a while, maybe you break through for a 10-win season - but to beat the big boys, you have to have at least the same level of talent.
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You're absolutely right. Given the size of our alumni network and proximity to two large metropolitan hubs we have no business not attracting NIL money. It's a matter of communicating effectively with all parties to secure it, which we clearly haven't been able to do.
 


RogueGopher said:
Rossi as a head coach would help give the offense a pulse? How does that work?
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Rossi would need to be paired with a good offensive mind at OC from one of the aforementioned scenarios. Giving Ciarocca another year makes sense but we can't expect to win games with such a one-dimensional playbook.
 



SallysEnthusiast said:
Rossi would need to be paired with a good offensive mind at OC from one of the aforementioned scenarios. Giving Ciarocca another year makes sense but we can't expect to win games with such a one-dimensional playbook.
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So it has nothing to do with the head coach is what you're saying. KC is the problem with the offense?
 



RogueGopher said:
This whole thread is pointless if the Gophers end up with 8 wins right? 3 consecutive full seasons with 11, 9, and 8 wins and its ALL still because of Kill? Yeah ok.
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No. What Kill did was to bring a better understanding of a program foundation to the Regents and administration. He does get some credit for that but there is enough time passed now that the talk can be shelved. Fleck proved it is possible to energize a fan base and bring in cash. One of weak links we have had for a long time is the AD. I do not believe Coyle and Fleck can bring us a dynasty or long run of success with a couple BIG west titles.
 

Here's the issue, if we fire PJ for only being as good as kill and make the wrong hire and we end up back in the gutters much like Nebraska is now. Show me a coach that has better credentials than PJ that'll come to MN and stay here long enough to break the cycle.

Unless PJ starts winning less than 6 wins consistently, I don't think we risk firing him for any reason other than a huge scandal. MN is in too precarious of a position to risk another Brewster. We need stability right now.
 


SallysEnthusiast said:
Let’s be realistic - this program hasn’t changed under Fleck. The 2019 season was largely the fruit of Kill’s labor and the ensuing three seasons have only further proved that. With the 2023 schedule looking difficult and the current sentiment surrounding the program, it’s not out of question we can Fleck or he walks to a different program in the next 18 months. Fleck's persona, hypocritical behavior and inexplicable loyalty to his WMU players is clearly turning athletes and fans off of our program, and it would be in our best interest to at least consider our options in 2023 and 2024. We deserve a coach who will give our offense a pulse, adjust to adversity when our gameplan falls flat and bring in talent to put us in position to win the west.

In this scenario Rossi (paired with a great offensive mind at OC) is the obvious answer and would help keep our top talent in-house, but an experienced coach (preferably a coach or coordinator from a team with success against ranked opponents) could tip the scales too. Any thoughts on other potential hires?

Sure, we're better than we were in 70s-90s, but ask yourself: are we really happy being perennially "decent"? The Fleck era was supposed to facilitate that leap from good to great. It just hasn't happened, and 6 years is a more than substantial sample size.
Click to expand...
You at Sally's now, and how many beers have you had?
 

SallysEnthusiast said:
Let’s be realistic - this program hasn’t changed under Fleck. The 2019 season was largely the fruit of Kill’s labor and the ensuing three seasons have only further proved that. With the 2023 schedule looking difficult and the current sentiment surrounding the program, it’s not out of question we can Fleck or he walks to a different program in the next 18 months. Fleck's persona, hypocritical behavior and inexplicable loyalty to his WMU players is clearly turning athletes and fans off of our program, and it would be in our best interest to at least consider our options in 2023 and 2024. We deserve a coach who will give our offense a pulse, adjust to adversity when our gameplan falls flat and bring in talent to put us in position to win the west.

In this scenario Rossi (paired with a great offensive mind at OC) is the obvious answer and would help keep our top talent in-house, but an experienced coach (preferably a coach or coordinator from a team with success against ranked opponents) could tip the scales too. Any thoughts on other potential hires?

Sure, we're better than we were in 70s-90s, but ask yourself: are we really happy being perennially "decent"? The Fleck era was supposed to facilitate that leap from good to great. It just hasn't happened, and 6 years is a more than substantial sample size.
Click to expand...
So you joined the board just to post this?
 

SallysEnthusiast said:
Let’s be realistic - this program hasn’t changed under Fleck. The 2019 season was largely the fruit of Kill’s labor and the ensuing three seasons have only further proved that. With the 2023 schedule looking difficult and the current sentiment surrounding the program, it’s not out of question we can Fleck or he walks to a different program in the next 18 months. Fleck's persona, hypocritical behavior and inexplicable loyalty to his WMU players is clearly turning athletes and fans off of our program, and it would be in our best interest to at least consider our options in 2023 and 2024. We deserve a coach who will give our offense a pulse, adjust to adversity when our gameplan falls flat and bring in talent to put us in position to win the west.

In this scenario Rossi (paired with a great offensive mind at OC) is the obvious answer and would help keep our top talent in-house, but an experienced coach (preferably a coach or coordinator from a team with success against ranked opponents) could tip the scales too. Any thoughts on other potential hires?

Sure, we're better than we were in 70s-90s, but ask yourself: are we really happy being perennially "decent"? The Fleck era was supposed to facilitate that leap from good to great. It just hasn't happened, and 6 years is a more than substantial sample size.
Click to expand...
Dang....never going to be able to get back the minutes I wasted on that garbage...
 

swelna said:
Here's the issue, if we fire PJ for only being as good as kill and make the wrong hire and we end up back in the gutters much like Nebraska is now. Show me a coach that has better credentials than PJ that'll come to MN and stay here long enough to break the cycle.

Unless PJ starts winning less than 6 wins consistently, I don't think we risk firing him for any reason other than a huge scandal. MN is in too precarious of a position to risk another Brewster. We need stability right now.
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Only a moron would fire coach Fleck. And I am pretty sure, he could finish this year poor and next year go 3-9 and not be fired.
That said, I would LOVE to see the recruiting improve. IMO, this is the biggest hurdle here at MN and the reason we haven't been able to get over the hump.
 

Go Gophs said:
Only a moron would fire coach Fleck. And I am pretty sure, he could finish this year poor and next year go 3-9 and not be fired.
That said, I would LOVE to see the recruiting improve. IMO, this is the biggest hurdle here at MN and the reason we haven't been able to get over the hump.
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You really think going 4-8 and then 3-9 would not get him fired?
 

PMWinSTP said:
You really think going 4-8 and then 3-9 would not get him fired?
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That would assume the lose out. My guess for this year is at worst 7-5, 6-6. That would be a poor finish.

But yes, I think he could have 2 bad seasons in a row and stick around.

I also don't see it. I still seeing winning seasons both this year and next.
 

I like coach Fleck. He’s just the wrong guy for the job. The sooner he takes another job or gets fired the quicker we can get the right coach for the job and move forward.
I wish him well in all his future endeavors!
 

gopherjay said:
No. What Kill did was to bring a better understanding of a program foundation to the Regents and administration. He does get some credit for that but there is enough time passed now that the talk can be shelved. Fleck proved it is possible to energize a fan base and bring in cash. One of weak links we have had for a long time is the AD. I do not believe Coyle and Fleck can bring us a dynasty or long run of success with a couple BIG west titles.
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Totally agree with you on Coyle. He is a weak stick. The Stadium and Athlete's Village were alll done under someone else's watch. What has he done to pay off our debt? Also, he is the recipient of the largest TV package in the U's history. The revenue alone from the projected TV income will cover most of the athletic dept's budget. He didn't negotiate this package. The BIG administration did. This largess just fell in his lap.
 

SallysEnthusiast said:
Fleck has been able to bring better talent through the door but the vast majority have transferred. Kill kept his guys home and developed them. His 2016 class was the backbone of our 2019 team.
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so long as you don't count our starting QB, WR, LG, RG, RT, third WR, starting LE, Saftey, key players in secondary as part of the back bone
 

Cobra said:
I like coach Fleck. He’s just the wrong guy for the job. The sooner he takes another job or gets fired the quicker we can get the right coach for the job and move forward.
I wish him well in all his future endeavors!
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Until someone points out a coach that would have a better chance than Fleck to win a big ten championship these statements really don't do anything.

Grass is always greener on the other side...
 

swelna said:
Until someone points out a coach that would have a better chance than Fleck to win a big ten championship these statements really don't do anything.

Grass is always greener on the other side...
Click to expand...
Paul Chryst is available
 

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