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ncgo4

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Football at Minnesota has been treated like an ugly stepchild. Under respected and used as the funding mechanism for the rest of the athletic department. Then Mason forced the new stadium...and got fired before it was done. Then Kill forced the new Athletes Village and football practice facility...and left before it was complete.

All the while our coaching staff was among the most poorly paid in the B1G. Now we went after and got the hottest young coach in the country. And paid him a competitive salary. Now we are adding really highly valued assistants.

Suddenly, we are a more fully funded, BIG BOY football program. This won't sit well with lots of people. Fleck will have to put a lot more people in the stadium this year, primarily with his shtick. The second year we will need to see some results.

This is the first time in 20 years that U of M football will be allowed to truly reach it's potential. I for one am really excited and anxious to watch it unfold.
 

Continuing on this topic. There is no reason in the world that Minnesota cannot become a "helmet" school. It's a great academic institution on a big, big campus. It's in one of the great metropolitan cities in America. It has one of the best football heritages in NCAA history. We have an amazing corporate culture at our doorstep. We will soon have top notch facilities for the program. "Mesabi", like the iron range means sleeping giant. I guess because the iron ore is hidden and needed to be discovered. Well, the U of M may prove to be the Mesabi football program. A sleeping giant that just may be about to reawaken.
 

ncgo4 said:
Football at Minnesota has been treated like an ugly stepchild. Under respected and used as the funding mechanism for the rest of the athletic department. Then Mason forced the new stadium...and got fired before it was done. Then Kill forced the new Athletes Village and football practice facility...and left before it was complete.

All the while our coaching staff was among the most poorly paid in the B1G. Now we went after and got the hottest young coach in the country. And paid him a competitive salary. Now we are adding really highly valued assistants.

Suddenly, we are a more fully funded, BIG BOY football program. This won't sit well with lots of people. Fleck will have to put a lot more people in the stadium this year, primarily with his shtick. The second year we will need to see some results.

This is the first time in 20 years that U of M football will be allowed to truly reach it's potential. I for one am really excited and anxious to watch it unfold.
Click to expand...

I have a lot of confidence in PJ Fleck as a coach. What I am worried about is that we go 5-7 or 6-6 next year and media completely turns on him. Fleck is a fun guy to rally around but he will be really easy for the media to right negative articles about if things go south.

Think of Brew (not comparing him coaching resumes, ONLY catchphrases from the press conference). . .people still mock Brew for talking about Rose Bowls, goofy catch phrases (daggum chili) and quirky antics (sod).

I am excited about Fleck, but he is in an incredibly negative market with unrealistically high expectations.
 

ncgo4 said:
Football at Minnesota has been treated like an ugly stepchild. Under respected and used as the funding mechanism for the rest of the athletic department. Then Mason forced the new stadium...and got fired before it was done. Then Kill forced the new Athletes Village and football practice facility...and left before it was complete.

All the while our coaching staff was among the most poorly paid in the B1G. Now we went after and got the hottest young coach in the country. And paid him a competitive salary. Now we are adding really highly valued assistants.

Suddenly, we are a more fully funded, BIG BOY football program. This won't sit well with lots of people. Fleck will have to put a lot more people in the stadium this year, primarily with his shtick. The second year we will need to see some results.

This is the first time in 20 years that U of M football will be allowed to truly reach it's potential. I for one am really excited and anxious to watch it unfold.
Click to expand...

Yes you are right and this should be the counter to the strib op ed piece from yesterday about the men's athletic spending.

I only question your last paragraph, because I don't think I have seen the football program funded and with facilities in my lifetime.
 

I have been saying this all week at work. Absolutely no reason we can't come back to power and it is especially beleiveable when Coyle says the same. The next piece to the puzzle was booked when Coyle found a coach that has the swagger to get it done.
 


I expect that this first year will be difficult. I expect everyone involved with the "incident" to be dismissed from the program as Fleck attempts to draw a line in the sand re behavior. I also expect several key players might find it difficult to sign on to the new mantra. I also expect the coaches he's brining in to really upgrade our performances. This first year will be interesting but results are somewghat a crapshoot. Not year 2, however.
 

oldauggie said:
I have been saying this all week at work. Absolutely no reason we can't come back to power and it is especially beleiveable when Coyle says the same. The next piece to the puzzle was booked when Coyle found a coach that has the swagger to get it done.
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Minnesota Football = Sleeping Giant
 

For me, boosters are another variable with big-time programs that doesn't get talked about a lot. Every big program has them.
We have some, I'm sure.

And yes, it's sort of a "chicken and egg" (i.e. maybe there are potential boosters waiting in the weeds).

If we win, we'll get 'em. Or do we need to get them IN ORDER to win?
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I have a lot of confidence in PJ Fleck as a coach. What I am worried about is that we go 5-7 or 6-6 next year and media completely turns on him. Fleck is a fun guy to rally around but he will be really easy for the media to right negative articles about if things go south.

Think of Brew (not comparing him coaching resumes, ONLY catchphrases from the press conference). . .people still mock Brew for talking about Rose Bowls, goofy catch phrases (daggum chili) and quirky antics (sod).

I am excited about Fleck, but he is in an incredibly negative market with unrealistically high expectations.
Click to expand...

I agree 100% with all of this. I have the exact same concerns about how the media will hammer him at the first sign of decline and the fans will follow the KFAN lead and mock him.

Go Gophers!!
 



BleedGopher said:
I agree 100% with all of this. I have the exact same concerns about how the media will hammer him at the first sign of decline and the fans will follow the KFAN lead and mock him.

Go Gophers!!
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Shouldn't Fleck know his audience? I get that what he does works on recruits and diehard fans, but it may not work on the fan base he needs to develop or the media. That's on him.
 

kellyleeks said:
Shouldn't Fleck know his audience? I get that what he does works on recruits and diehard fans, but it may not work on the fan base he needs to develop or the media. That's on him.
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I respectfully disagree with this. By his own admission, Fleck is who he is, and he shouldn't change. He can't be successful if he's changing who he is for his audience. It's on him to understand the culture he's going into certainly, but if things don't start strong in year 1, he needs to stay the course.

Go Gophers!!
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I have a lot of confidence in PJ Fleck as a coach. What I am worried about is that we go 5-7 or 6-6 next year and media completely turns on him. Fleck is a fun guy to rally around but he will be really easy for the media to right negative articles about if things go south.

Think of Brew (not comparing him coaching resumes, ONLY catchphrases from the press conference). . .people still mock Brew for talking about Rose Bowls, goofy catch phrases (daggum chili) and quirky antics (sod).

I am excited about Fleck, but he is in an incredibly negative market with unrealistically high expectations.
Click to expand...

My concern as well. The Upper Midwest is an odd market of sorts, but if Fleck can get students back in the seats and create some buzz on campus, that will be a big plus. Old Scandinavian curmudgeons (my background) are always going to be a tough sell on the enthusiasm front due to their innate skepticism of anything that puts the blood pressure over 100/60, but that segment of the market is dwindling. If he can win and maintain a classy program, the state should be his. Outside of the recent hiccup, he's inherited a darn good situation.
 

kellyleeks said:
Shouldn't Fleck know his audience? I get that what he does works on recruits and diehard fans, but it may not work on the fan base he needs to develop or the media. That's on him.
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You mean pander to the quiet, white-haired MinneSOtans?
 




kellyleeks said:
Shouldn't Fleck know his audience? I get that what he does works on recruits and diehard fans, but it may not work on the fan base he needs to develop or the media. That's on him.
Click to expand...

BleedGopher said:
I respectfully disagree with this. By his own admission, Fleck is who he is, and he shouldn't change. He can't be successful if he's changing who he is for his audience. It's on him to understand the culture he's going into certainly, but if things don't start strong in year 1, he needs to stay the course.

Go Gophers!!
Click to expand...

I'm sort of between these two. I believe Fleck is who he is, understands who he is, and to date has been successful because of who he is. He is not going to change who he is because of coverage and outside forces, that is fairly clear to me seeing how he handled 1-11 at WMU and the messages he has put forth so far in his short tenure here.

That said, if and when he doesn't change who he is for his new audience, he is making a choice, and if that choice backfires, he has chosen that sword to fall on.
 

ncgo4 said:
Continuing on this topic. There is no reason in the world that Minnesota cannot become a "helmet" school. It's a great academic institution on a big, big campus. It's in one of the great metropolitan cities in America. It has one of the best football heritages in NCAA history. We have an amazing corporate culture at our doorstep. We will soon have top notch facilities for the program. "Mesabi", like the iron range means sleeping giant. I guess because the iron ore is hidden and needed to be discovered. Well, the U of M may prove to be the Mesabi football program. A sleeping giant that just may be about to reawaken.
Click to expand...
Yea there is. You can't be a 'helmet' school without local talent. The only Midwest/Northern 'helmet' schools established that rep 30-50 years ago before things like integration, the population shift to the south and other factors took place. Even now, Nebraska and ND have struggled to field top 20 teams consistently over the last 10-15 years. OSU and Michigan are doing fine but there is a lot of talent in those 2 states as well. MN will ALWAYS have to rely heavily on not just out of state players but players in entire other regions.
 

5-7 or 6-6 would be a massive failure. We won 9 games with a blah coach and no QB. If Fleck is the coaching genius he is touted to be, he has match or come close to matching 9 wins.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I have a lot of confidence in PJ Fleck as a coach. What I am worried about is that we go 5-7 or 6-6 next year and media completely turns on him. Fleck is a fun guy to rally around but he will be really easy for the media to right negative articles about if things go south.
Click to expand...
There are already media who are skeptical...who think his whole thing is a schtick. One good year won't change their minds. Similarly, one average to poor year won't turn positive opinions of him to negative. Nobody expects this to be an immediate turnaround. No culture change ever is immediate.

And negative articles won't bother Fleck. The media isn't his target audience, and neither is the majority of people who read newspapers.
 

Winnipegopher said:
5-7 or 6-6 would be a massive failure. We won 9 games with a blah coach and no QB. If Fleck is the coaching genius he is touted to be, he has match or come close to matching 9 wins.
Click to expand...

I disagree. Coaching changes are messy. This isn't the NFL where they live and breathe football. Only have spring practice and 20 or so practices in the fall to learn/become comfortable with new offensive and defensive systems. Also the losses of Myrick, Hardin, Winfield, Travis, Leidner, Moore, Wolitarsky without "known" replacements will be difficult. I fully expect a bumpy ride next season.
 

I'm not sure spending money and flashy coaching hires is .... quite a sure deal here as some folks thing.

I'm also skeptical about how likely long term "helmet school" status lasts for any program who isn't traditionally that.

Still I'm excited.
 

I am confident that Fleck will stay his hyperactive over the top self and good for him...can't change the culture if you are unsure who you are. He is the captain of this ship and it will all feed off him. He is a big boy and this is what he wants (or thinks he wants...we will see in a few years).

Winning over the press, boosters, fans and players (not necessarily in that order) will come with three things - consistency in leadership (Fleck being Fleck), product on the field (not necessarily wins in year 1) and improved recruiting.

If Fleck can stay the course, show a good on field product and promise for future growth, he will be fine. But if we are 12 out of 14 next year in recruiting and our players are undisciplined on the field next year and there is off the field issues...his schtick will become Brewsteresque in a hurry.

I hope Fleck is our coach for the next 25 years and we go back to beating Becky on a regular basis. Still think Kaler/Coyle are snakes and should be sent packing.
 

As long as I can remember, Gopher football has been somewhat of a joke. I hate to say that, but I agree with the OP that it's never been treated like the Big Ten program it is. The few exceptions have included the promise of the Holtz years and the competence and near breakthrough of the Mason years. In the past, I feel like this has been a microcosm of the University's almost intentional under-achievement in many respects. I saw the overall tide turn when Mark Yudof came in and shook things up. Suddenly the campus, which had been dingy and rundown since before I enrolled, was looking great - looking like all the other beautiful campuses around the country that we should have been capable of reproducing but maybe felt it was impossible or we didn't deserve nice things. Since then, the capital investment in (academic) facilities, student support programs, the intentional effort to move us away from being a commuter campus: I almost can't believe how much better and nicer this place is than it was when I attended. I go back to campus often, and I finally feel like the place is living up to its potential. Athletics has lagged behind that general trend, but if it's now starting to catch up, it's not too late. This is the first day of the rest of the U's life.
 

oleboy41 said:
Yea there is. You can't be a 'helmet' school without local talent. The only Midwest/Northern 'helmet' schools established that rep 30-50 years ago before things like integration, the population shift to the south and other factors took place. Even now, Nebraska and ND have struggled to field top 20 teams consistently over the last 10-15 years. OSU and Michigan are doing fine but there is a lot of talent in those 2 states as well. MN will ALWAYS have to rely heavily on not just out of state players but players in entire other regions.
Click to expand...

Build it and they will come.
 

joshvanklomp said:
There are already media who are skeptical...who think his whole thing is a schtick. One good year won't change their minds. Similarly, one average to poor year won't turn positive opinions of him to negative. Nobody expects this to be an immediate turnaround. No culture change ever is immediate.

And negative articles won't bother Fleck. The media isn't his target audience, and neither is the majority of people who read newspapers.
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What I put in bold doesn't really make sense coming off of 9-4 season. The media, probably rightfully so, is not going to give him the luxury of being patient in a rebuild.
 


balds said:
I disagree. Coaching changes are messy. This isn't the NFL where they live and breathe football. Only have spring practice and 20 or so practices in the fall to learn/become comfortable with new offensive and defensive systems. Also the losses of Myrick, Hardin, Winfield, Travis, Leidner, Moore, Wolitarsky without "known" replacements will be difficult. I fully expect a bumpy ride next season.
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An Elite (or Big Boy) program deals with the losses. Players graduate, leave and transfer every year.

I guarantee this. Very few here, in the media, or in the stands will be understanding of a 5-7 season.
 

Winnipegopher said:
An Elite (or Big Boy) program deals with the losses. Players graduate, leave and transfer every year.

I guarantee this. Very few here, in the media, or in the stands will be understanding of a 5-7 season.
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Yeah, and we lost more than that last year and went 9-4. I am patient, but I think it's naive to think 5-7 wouldn't be disappointing.
 

balds said:
I disagree. Coaching changes are messy. This isn't the NFL where they live and breathe football. Only have spring practice and 20 or so practices in the fall to learn/become comfortable with new offensive and defensive systems. Also the losses of Myrick, Hardin, Winfield, Travis, Leidner, Moore, Wolitarsky without "known" replacements will be difficult. I fully expect a bumpy ride next season.
Click to expand...

I agree. If we lose all ten players, that is a big hit. Regardless we are unproven at qb. And who knows how quickly the team will buy in. I suspect now that Fleck has a track record, which he did not have when he started at WMU, his transition and the willingness of players to buy in may be easier than it was last time. Weigh that against any negative feelings players may have about suspensions, ex coaches being let go, etc... I am interested to see how Fleck deals with these new challenges and how he practices what he preaches.

I am not sold on his style, but being a finalist for the AFCA coach of the year is nice feather in his cap that that carries credibility. And I think he is off to a great start with recruiting and solid hires. I really enjoyed the progress the program made during the Kill/ Clayes years and believe that those men left the program better than they found it. Still, I am as excited about Gopher football as I was during the Holtz era, based on what appears to be a new found commitment to football, and the nice start Fleck is off to.
 

50PoundHead said:
My concern as well. The Upper Midwest is an odd market of sorts, but if Fleck can get students back in the seats and create some buzz on campus, that will be a big plus. Old Scandinavian curmudgeons (my background) are always going to be a tough sell on the enthusiasm front due to their innate skepticism of anything that puts the blood pressure over 100/60, but that segment of the market is dwindling. If he can win and maintain a classy program, the state should be his. Outside of the recent hiccup, he's inherited a darn good situation.
Click to expand...

I think there is a hunger for football fans in this area that are not engaged in college football to get into it. Heard on KFAN yesterday from the morning guys who watched the Championship Game on Monday, realizing that they hadn't watched any college football all season because MN hasn't been good. They know college football is an incredibly fun atmosphere and spectacle, but without any local relevance, they don't feel engaged or interested enough to watch it. They mentioned that if the Gophers had a shot of playing teams like Clemson and Alabama, they would likely watch those games. This is the type of fan that Fleck wants to reach out to and bring into the fold.
 


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